Sinera
2nd April 2010, 07:26 PM
Hi,
I recently read on some forums that some OBErs met dreamers in their dreams and both remember the same as AP/dream respectively. So I suppose that the dreamer had an "Astral/Dream body" and a kind of unconscious projection, while the OBEr had a conscious projection with his Astral/RTZ body? The dreamer was NOT lucid by the way. She just remembers the dream (maybe not all of it). But "how" and "where" did they meet? The setting was the dreamers room in one situation and the hallway/kitchen in another situation. Seems to be the RTZ, but then the OBEr started to "make objects fly around" in one example.
I still don't understand. Where and how is the "normal" dream mind located? If in deep sleep, we unconsciously project (into the etheric body). But is (normal) dreaming an unconscious projection of another body, too?
We remember some fractions of dreams, so there is a certain amount of memory download, it can even be trained and enhanced as we know from LD-techniques.
If it is a projection, then do we project a dream body for the astral plane, and use a mental body for the mental plane on lucid dreams? The normal-dream state also has the REM-phases, which shows the body/brain is more active than in deep sleep. So it also could be a "local" mind? I'm confused. :? :oops:
What is your theory on all that?
Regards,
Volgerle
here are the posts concerned, from the astralpulse forum:
1)
A few years ago I was living in the south of England whilst my parents lived in their house in Leeds in the north. One Saturday morning I AP'd and decided to pay my parents an "astral" visit. So concentrating on their house in Leeds, I soon found myself outside in the street in front of the house. It was a bright morning. Walking up the garden path I passed through the front door and into the hallway in my parents' house, where I discovered my mother watching in utter surprise as I came in through the front door.
I calmed her down and explained that this was just a kind of "special dream" and she had nothing to worry about. We walked through the living room and into the kitchen where I sat down on a very flimsy wooden "sewing basket", knowing that I couldn't break it. My mother complained, saying I'd break the basket but I reassured her that I was "as light as a feather" and it wouldn't break.
Then I decided to show off, so I started pointing at objects, cups, jars etc, making them fly around the kitchen. My mother was pretty shocked by all of this. At this point I lost consciousness and returned to my physical body.
A little later in the morning I got up, had breakfast, went about my business and by mid-day, curiosity got the better of me so I decided to phone home, just in case anything "unusual" had happened there. My mother answered the phone, sounding agitated, and as soon as she heard my voice said "Thank God! I thought you had died!". It turns out that she had a "dream" which was identical to the OBE I had.
She remembered dreaming that she was standing in the hall when I emerged in front of her by coming in THROUGH the front door. Shocked by this and feeling certain that something was very wrong, she continued to dream the same events that I had experienced - walking through the living room into the kitchen, complaining that I would break the sewing basket and then watching as I made objects fly around the kitchen. My mother recounted the dream without prompting. I didn't guide her in any way.
My mother's dream was identical to my OBE in every respect, and it troubled her so much that she was sure some harm must have come to me and that the dream was some sort of harbinger of bad fortune. She didn't have a contact number for me so when I called she was extremely relieved!
2)
The most convining validation I have experienced yet involved my sister, when I was still living at home. I became lucid in a dream, which caused me to wake up. On waking I discovered I was paralysed and experiencing the vibrations. I rolled out, and for some reason, I decided to try and pull my sister out. I went to her room (in my experience the light was on in her room, but in reality it wasn't) and started pulling at her arm. When I finally got her out, I showed her how to float, and helped her float up to the ceiling (we had our heads sticking through into the loft). The experience wasn't much more than this. I returned to body and checked the clock.
Out of curiosity, the morning after this experience I asked my sister if she had any strange dreams. She went a bit weird and didn't want to talk about it. Later that evening, she opened up and told me she woken in the night to see a black 'smoky' figure (see through) leaning over her bed with its hand reaching out towards her, this terrified her. She doesn't recall any of what I did (pulling her out), but the times matched up.
I recently read on some forums that some OBErs met dreamers in their dreams and both remember the same as AP/dream respectively. So I suppose that the dreamer had an "Astral/Dream body" and a kind of unconscious projection, while the OBEr had a conscious projection with his Astral/RTZ body? The dreamer was NOT lucid by the way. She just remembers the dream (maybe not all of it). But "how" and "where" did they meet? The setting was the dreamers room in one situation and the hallway/kitchen in another situation. Seems to be the RTZ, but then the OBEr started to "make objects fly around" in one example.
I still don't understand. Where and how is the "normal" dream mind located? If in deep sleep, we unconsciously project (into the etheric body). But is (normal) dreaming an unconscious projection of another body, too?
We remember some fractions of dreams, so there is a certain amount of memory download, it can even be trained and enhanced as we know from LD-techniques.
If it is a projection, then do we project a dream body for the astral plane, and use a mental body for the mental plane on lucid dreams? The normal-dream state also has the REM-phases, which shows the body/brain is more active than in deep sleep. So it also could be a "local" mind? I'm confused. :? :oops:
What is your theory on all that?
Regards,
Volgerle
here are the posts concerned, from the astralpulse forum:
1)
A few years ago I was living in the south of England whilst my parents lived in their house in Leeds in the north. One Saturday morning I AP'd and decided to pay my parents an "astral" visit. So concentrating on their house in Leeds, I soon found myself outside in the street in front of the house. It was a bright morning. Walking up the garden path I passed through the front door and into the hallway in my parents' house, where I discovered my mother watching in utter surprise as I came in through the front door.
I calmed her down and explained that this was just a kind of "special dream" and she had nothing to worry about. We walked through the living room and into the kitchen where I sat down on a very flimsy wooden "sewing basket", knowing that I couldn't break it. My mother complained, saying I'd break the basket but I reassured her that I was "as light as a feather" and it wouldn't break.
Then I decided to show off, so I started pointing at objects, cups, jars etc, making them fly around the kitchen. My mother was pretty shocked by all of this. At this point I lost consciousness and returned to my physical body.
A little later in the morning I got up, had breakfast, went about my business and by mid-day, curiosity got the better of me so I decided to phone home, just in case anything "unusual" had happened there. My mother answered the phone, sounding agitated, and as soon as she heard my voice said "Thank God! I thought you had died!". It turns out that she had a "dream" which was identical to the OBE I had.
She remembered dreaming that she was standing in the hall when I emerged in front of her by coming in THROUGH the front door. Shocked by this and feeling certain that something was very wrong, she continued to dream the same events that I had experienced - walking through the living room into the kitchen, complaining that I would break the sewing basket and then watching as I made objects fly around the kitchen. My mother recounted the dream without prompting. I didn't guide her in any way.
My mother's dream was identical to my OBE in every respect, and it troubled her so much that she was sure some harm must have come to me and that the dream was some sort of harbinger of bad fortune. She didn't have a contact number for me so when I called she was extremely relieved!
2)
The most convining validation I have experienced yet involved my sister, when I was still living at home. I became lucid in a dream, which caused me to wake up. On waking I discovered I was paralysed and experiencing the vibrations. I rolled out, and for some reason, I decided to try and pull my sister out. I went to her room (in my experience the light was on in her room, but in reality it wasn't) and started pulling at her arm. When I finally got her out, I showed her how to float, and helped her float up to the ceiling (we had our heads sticking through into the loft). The experience wasn't much more than this. I returned to body and checked the clock.
Out of curiosity, the morning after this experience I asked my sister if she had any strange dreams. She went a bit weird and didn't want to talk about it. Later that evening, she opened up and told me she woken in the night to see a black 'smoky' figure (see through) leaning over her bed with its hand reaching out towards her, this terrified her. She doesn't recall any of what I did (pulling her out), but the times matched up.