Sinera
19th March 2010, 07:28 PM
Hi Bruce
This is not meant to be a general discussion if / objection that OBEs are LDs only. I know well they are not.
However, a strange experience 2 days ago forces me to ask myself: Can you just be LDing to be OBEing? In your book you also write about a mixture being possible. Can the RTZ be imitated by a dreamscape almost perfectly?
I had some things planned and fixed that I wanted to do when I am finally out again. But is it possible that my familiar surroundigs, my room, the street outside and the market place of my city I went to, are just a "dreamscape" - that were created by my fixed plans I had and the intention that I wanted to go there anyway? I ask because at some point it is all dreamlike to me in the end, and I had those "reality fluctuations" you talk about.
I started NOT from a dream, but from a hypnagogic state, so I was not sleeping/dreaming before. After affirmations and soft vibrations (too soft?), my astral body turned from the side-sleeping position to the back as usual, then I raised my arms as usual (up to this point I always do this automatically!), then I asked for s.o. (guide/higherself) to grab my hands and help me out (that is a new idea I had :P ) and it worked, I was helped out - by whoever (I did not see). I was happily floating to the middle of room.
I tried, as planned, immediately your advice in the book with the 'deck-of-cards-blind-trial'. So I went immediatly to the wardrobe top. Problem was the one chosen card just fluctuated and I did not get a clear picture. Asking for clarity and concentrating did not work. At one point I saw a hand (my hand?) taking up the card and wanting to look at it. So maybe the cards were not really "material" but all my imagination. Finally I settled on two cards that were still fluctuating to and fro (jack of clubs or jack of diamonds). The reality proof failed. Later check revealed: It was the king of hearts. :-(
I let it be at that and opted for my next item on the plan, to go out through my window. All looked real to me, so I flew down to the city at daylight, all looked real. On the market place was a kind of fair, things went strange again. I talked to a little girl there (in the physical) and we agreed that adults would not see ghosts like me but she could.
Then went up, almost shot to the stars, but stopped 100 meters up in teh air because I did not want to go higher. Then I told myself, I want to project to my parent's home into the garden outside. But it did not work. After a few seconds in the dark I immediately woke up. I had a little freezing goose-bumps feeling, but no paralysis. I was convinced it was only a dream then. Now I am not so sure, if it was maybe both, OBE mixed with LD or heavy flutuations.
Sometimes there is a fair in my city, but I did not reality check if it is/was there. Online I found out there was a big fair 10 days ago (so I kind of time-travelled? :mrgreen: )
I also visualised myself at two successive times 1 meter away from me, just my image, moving, don't know why. One funny and happy version of me. Then one angry version of me, speaking something, nagging, scolding with myself or whoever. It was only very short.
I dont understand it, I know you can create images in the Astral, but why did I visualise myself?
Isn't this also a dream aspect? A message from my higher self showing me two aspects of my ego? (And to fight the negative one, cuz I did not like him... :evil: )
And how can I be sure next time to be really out and not LDing?
Thanks so much for your thoughts.
Volgerle
This is not meant to be a general discussion if / objection that OBEs are LDs only. I know well they are not.
However, a strange experience 2 days ago forces me to ask myself: Can you just be LDing to be OBEing? In your book you also write about a mixture being possible. Can the RTZ be imitated by a dreamscape almost perfectly?
I had some things planned and fixed that I wanted to do when I am finally out again. But is it possible that my familiar surroundigs, my room, the street outside and the market place of my city I went to, are just a "dreamscape" - that were created by my fixed plans I had and the intention that I wanted to go there anyway? I ask because at some point it is all dreamlike to me in the end, and I had those "reality fluctuations" you talk about.
I started NOT from a dream, but from a hypnagogic state, so I was not sleeping/dreaming before. After affirmations and soft vibrations (too soft?), my astral body turned from the side-sleeping position to the back as usual, then I raised my arms as usual (up to this point I always do this automatically!), then I asked for s.o. (guide/higherself) to grab my hands and help me out (that is a new idea I had :P ) and it worked, I was helped out - by whoever (I did not see). I was happily floating to the middle of room.
I tried, as planned, immediately your advice in the book with the 'deck-of-cards-blind-trial'. So I went immediatly to the wardrobe top. Problem was the one chosen card just fluctuated and I did not get a clear picture. Asking for clarity and concentrating did not work. At one point I saw a hand (my hand?) taking up the card and wanting to look at it. So maybe the cards were not really "material" but all my imagination. Finally I settled on two cards that were still fluctuating to and fro (jack of clubs or jack of diamonds). The reality proof failed. Later check revealed: It was the king of hearts. :-(
I let it be at that and opted for my next item on the plan, to go out through my window. All looked real to me, so I flew down to the city at daylight, all looked real. On the market place was a kind of fair, things went strange again. I talked to a little girl there (in the physical) and we agreed that adults would not see ghosts like me but she could.
Then went up, almost shot to the stars, but stopped 100 meters up in teh air because I did not want to go higher. Then I told myself, I want to project to my parent's home into the garden outside. But it did not work. After a few seconds in the dark I immediately woke up. I had a little freezing goose-bumps feeling, but no paralysis. I was convinced it was only a dream then. Now I am not so sure, if it was maybe both, OBE mixed with LD or heavy flutuations.
Sometimes there is a fair in my city, but I did not reality check if it is/was there. Online I found out there was a big fair 10 days ago (so I kind of time-travelled? :mrgreen: )
I also visualised myself at two successive times 1 meter away from me, just my image, moving, don't know why. One funny and happy version of me. Then one angry version of me, speaking something, nagging, scolding with myself or whoever. It was only very short.
I dont understand it, I know you can create images in the Astral, but why did I visualise myself?
Isn't this also a dream aspect? A message from my higher self showing me two aspects of my ego? (And to fight the negative one, cuz I did not like him... :evil: )
And how can I be sure next time to be really out and not LDing?
Thanks so much for your thoughts.
Volgerle