Mind Machines and the Brain Wave Generator

[Superluminal76]

Hi,

Does using the brain wave generator program that comes with the Mastering Astral Projection book have the same effect as using a mind machine, such as one on this webpage: http://www.amazon.com/Proteus-Mind-Machine-System-Mindplace/dp/B000RCHFI6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1250043824&sr=8-1.

The book says that it the brain wave generator can be used in conjunction with a light and sound machine but I'm not sure how.

It is unfortunate that the CD doesn't work on Apple computers. Is there a downloadable version that does work with Macs? If not, I hope there will be one in the future.

Superluminal

[Link deactivated. Please see Minimum Post rule: http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=186]

[CFTraveler]

Here is a thread that may be helpful: viewtopic.php?t=3675 (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=3675)

[Superluminal76]

CFTraveler,

Thank you for the link and information.

Do you know if using a sound and light machine by itself will have the same effect as using the BWG?

Superluminal

[CFTraveler]

Only if it's loaded with a preset that takes you out to theta or delta. I had the impression that the BWGen can use light goggles if you want to go whole-hog on the experience. I think it would be too much for me, I'd probably have a seizure (said tongue- in- cheek, I have no preexisting conditions)

BTW, I took a look in the 'Other Altered State producing Sound', because I could have sworn there were threads on the Mind Machine, but I found very little, only one post (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=14789) from someone who owns one and was looking for presets for it. Maybe you can pm the OP and get more input on it.

[Superluminal76]

CFTraveler,

I think the one machine that I linked does take you to delta waves.

Speaking of sound producing altered states, I once was in a trance techno club in Germany, and being there for more than a hour I started to see strange things. Every time someone would walk to one side of the room I would then see them back at the other side of the room without them having walked back to that side. Weird. So from this experience I think that sound can produce altered states.

Thanks for your help.

Superluminal

[CFTraveler]

Oh, sound is known to produce altered states- there is no argument.
The thing is that different frequencies produce different states, so it depends on what you're trying to achieve. I'm sure that the MM you referenced does produce light trance, and you could take it from there. If there is no more info on it you could email them with questions, I'm sure they would help you.

[Superluminal76]

Hi,

I found their website, and on it they said that the machine induces a deep dreamless sleep trance state. I think this is what I will need for doing OBEs. I'm just amazed at this type of technology. Why isn't it more popular?

Superluminal

[ButterflyWoman]

Why isn't it more popular?
Well, it is popular, in some circles. I've been using brainwave technology for a couple years now (I use software from a company called Transparent Corporation), and there are a lot of hypnosis sites that offer guided meditation and hypnosis tracts that incorporate brainwave technology.

The thing is, most people just aren't that interested in altering their brainwaves or anything of that sort. Even fewer people are at all interested in something as esoteric as OBE.

[Superluminal76]

CaterpillarWoman,

Well, it's not the masses that drive progress.

I'm just worried over whether there will ever be a banning of esoteric knowledge, and that's probably why most of it is kept secret. If you've seen the X-Men movies, you'll see that so called occult-powers are seen as a threat by some people.

If OBE abilities become proven then its practice might be attacked as a security threat. This might be seen as paranoid but I think it's realistic. They might say things like these people can astral project or use psychic powers to scan out our secret military sites, and so on. But one counter to that argument might be that they can also develop these abilities and pose a counter measure, but in any case, just thinking out loud.

Superluminal

[CFTraveler]

Well, since esoteric knowledge comes from the inside, I don't see how anyone can ban it.
Since time immemorial esoteric knowledge has been obtained by mystics, and most religions were started by such mystics. The most danger any mystics get into is the danger of being worshipped and turned into religion. So I wouldn't worry about it.

Going to your Xmen analogy, it wasn't the knowledge that troubled humans, it was the power it engendered. And of course, at the root of all evil is Xenophobia, which is a whole different animal.

[Superluminal76]

A certain drug called DMT is banned, and the drug's chemical is also found inside the brain. So even if there are problems with the laws I'm sure they'll figure out something if they wanted to.

From what I know, the ability is inside someone and the knowledge is inside someone once they learn it but first it has to be taught to them and that comes from the outside. For example Robert Bruce's books. These are outside sources.

Yes, the power is what I mean. Knowledge and all its derivatives was what I was talking about. I guess since they're all connected I just used the term knowledge to talk about it.

One way they could ban these spiritual powers is to outlaw their practice and teaching. Sounds extreme, but I wouldn't put anything above people who want to maintain their power structure.

In India certain types of Yoga were illegal to teach to certain castes. So that's another example.

Since these things are immense powers, they can be seen as a threat; and that's what I'm basing my argument on.

And let's not forget that magic was banned in certain countries in Europe where also many of its practitioners were killed.

In my opinion, even in free societies such as America, you don't have any rights or freedom unless you yourself can guarantee it with power.

[CFTraveler]

A certain drug called DMT is banned, and the drug's chemical is also found inside the brain. So even if there are problems with the laws I'm sure they'll figure out something if they wanted to.

From what I know, the ability is inside someone and the knowledge is inside someone once they learn it but first it has to be taught to them and that comes from the outside. For example Robert Bruce's books. These are outside sources. DMT is used everytime you dream. Manmade DMT is banned, dreaming isn't. Books are external, the knowledge gleaned came from within.



One way they could ban these spiritual powers is to outlaw their practice and teaching. Sounds extreme, but I wouldn't put anything above people who want to maintain their power structure. Like I said before, these practices and teachings are at the basis of religion. To be able to ban them, they would have to ban religion also- the communist regimes tried that, and see how it worked for them.


In India certain types of Yoga were illegal to teach to certain castes. So that's another example. But that is about the caste system itself, not about the purported desire to suppress all spiritual thinking.


Since these things are immense powers, they can be seen as a threat; and that's what I'm basing my argument on.
And what I'm saying is that they could only be considered immense if only some people had them- but we all have the potential to develop, therefore the practical uses for them becomes moot.

And let's not forget that magic was banned in certain countries in Europe where also many of its practitioners were killed. Once again, this was a case of one ideology vs. another, and not the elimination of all of it. While pagans were killed, christian mystics were reaching the epitome of their practices. It's the same practice, with a different name.

Sure, in a free society we always run the risk of losing our freedom, but I don't think at the end of the day repressive structures are going to go after 'esoteric studies', when they're busy getting at the arts and literature and politics of the place. Sure, a completely repressive society exists and is possible, but things like AP, which can be performed without gadgets, can't be suppressed- the politician who cares if I AP when I sleep or not is a pretty crappy politician if he's going to worry about me.

The truth is that anything is possible, but I prefer to worry about other things.

[Superluminal76]

Yes, anything is possible, and I guess I shouldn't worry about it either. Until that is if it becomes an issue.

Thanks for your input.

[CFTraveler]

BTW, please let us know how you like your Mind Machine, I'm curious about it.

[Superluminal76]

Sure.

I am a little skeptical about it, but somewhat confident it'll work because of my own experience with the lights and sound at the trance club and from what I've read about it on this forum and off.

[CFTraveler]

I'm curious as to whether it strobes, or it's more like a 'relaxation' thing.

[Superluminal76]

Here is the link to their website: http://www.mindplace.com/

On the website they say that their mind machines can induce a deep dreamless sleep and also a trance state.

The dreamless sleep is similar if not the same as what Robert Bruce calls trance. I'm not sure yet if that's the case but I think it is. Anyways, you would know.

Just wanted to provide the link.

[CFTraveler]

Yes, trance is the liminal state in which your brainwaves are in theta, and hypnagogic images are seen when in deep trance (deep theta.) So it's all more or less synonymous.

[Superluminal76]

I see, thanks.