Meditation and Social Anxiety: Please help

[Warrior Spirit]

Namaste,

I really need your help with this dilemma I am having. I have social anxiety disorder, which means that I am very self-conscious of what other people are thinking about me. You could think of it as low confidence. One reason I started meditation many years ago was because I wanted to cure this social anxiety. Since, I have much improvement in my social anxiety and general confidence, but occasionally the anxiety resurfaces. I can't seem to get rid of it completely, it comes back from time to time. Anyway, here is my dileema.

I have been watching people who are confident, or at least seem confident. I have noticed certain good traits about them, and certain bad traits I would consider as a meditator. The good traits are they do not seem to hestitate at all when they speak, they say whatever is on their mind, they seem to exhibit a degree of self-love, and this makes them quite attractive and they become the centre of attention for everybody. People tend to like them. It is how I would like to be. The bad trait is they seem to talk quite fast, they seem to exert themselves to much, they tend to interrupt more regularly and be less listening to what others are saying.

My dilemma is, I am not sure whether I should be the listener or the talker. I find that when I am just the listener in groups, everybody else speaks, but me, but the desire to talk is there. And when I am the talker, I feel like I am talking too much, and I am not really listening to what others are saying, just trying to get my word in. But being the talker is easier than being the listener. When I am the listener, because I have been silent for a while, when I start to talk, I am too self-aware that my voice comes out really quiet and suppressed, and my voice will occasionally break while saying something. However, if I talk, and get into the flow of talking, then it is easier to talk, but becomes much harder to listen.

I could take the easy way out and just be the talker, exert myself, and become less of a listener. However, my conscience tells me this is wrong. I wouldn't imagine somebody like Buddha talking all the time, in fact enlightened masters tend to be very silent and only talk when it is necessary. I think naturally I am a listener, I was even born quiet and I have been very mature and meditative throughout my life. I also enjoy counselling others and listening to them. The problem is when I am like this I find talking hard.

Could you please help me out there. As you can see I am quite confused :mrgreen:

[Xanth]

There's absolutely no reason why you can't be the talking listener. :)
Women love a guy who can talk AND listen. ;)

But seriously...
You have to find the underlying reason for your anxiety and solve those issues. Or at least recognize them within yourself.
This is where meditation comes in.

Just remember, if you've got something to say, then say it. :)

[Warrior Spirit]

Did you read my post at all? Talk about feeling not being listened to.

[CFTraveler]

Namaste,
Namaste, WSpirit.


I really need your help with this dilemma I am having. I have social anxiety disorder, which means that I am very self-conscious of what other people are thinking about me. You could think of it as low confidence. One reason I started meditation many years ago was because I wanted to cure this social anxiety. Since, I have much improvement in my social anxiety and general confidence, but occasionally the anxiety resurfaces. I can't seem to get rid of it completely, it comes back from time to time. The thing is that even though meditation is something that can be effective against anxiety in general, in your situation it can bring up the reasons that you are having it in the first place. Your self-consciousness can be used as an asset in this case- it seems that the reason is some sort of confidence problem, as you said. The question is, what caused the problem in the first place? Did someone tell you you were not good enough? If this is the case, is this something that is still going on, is it resolved? (My guess is no, which is why you are having it in the first place.



I have been watching people who are confident, or at least seem confident. I have noticed certain good traits about them, and certain bad traits I would consider as a meditator. The good traits are they do not seem to hestitate at all when they speak, they say whatever is on their mind, they seem to exhibit a degree of self-love, and this makes them quite attractive and they become the centre of attention for everybody. People tend to like them. It is how I would like to be. So far so good, except I don't get the idea you would like to be the center of attention, for a variety of reasons. But there is nothing wrong with self-love. Is there any reason why you don't love yourself? Once again, I see the theme resurfacing.


The bad trait is they seem to talk quite fast, they seem to exert themselves to much, they tend to interrupt more regularly and be less listening to what others are saying. Yes, they are self-centered, while you are self-conscious. I don't know if you see this is two sides of the coin, neither healthy when taken to extremes.


My dilemma is, I am not sure whether I should be the listener or the talker. I find that when I am just the listener in groups, everybody else speaks, but me, but the desire to talk is there. Well, I have a 'technique' idea, but I have the idea that a technique is not good enough.

And when I am the talker, I feel like I am talking too much, and I am not really listening to what others are saying, just trying to get my word in. But being the talker is easier than being the listener. When I am the listener, because I have been silent for a while, when I start to talk, I am too self-aware that my voice comes out really quiet and suppressed, and my voice will occasionally break while saying something. However, if I talk, and get into the flow of talking, then it is easier to talk, but becomes much harder to listen. Believe it or not, this happens even to the 'smoothest' of talkers. Certain people try to get over it by talking and coming across as insensitive, but really, they are just as self-conscious as you are, they just deal with it differently than you are.


I could take the easy way out and just be the talker, exert myself, and become less of a listener. However, my conscience tells me this is wrong. Why on earth would this be wrong? I can visualize right as I write this that someone told this to you, and you internalized it and made it yours. The fact is, that even if you talk without listening, you are doing so without guile and out of nervousness, and that is perfectly all right- especially in a social situation.
For some reason I get the feeling that if someone approached you with a tragic story about a terrible thing that happened to them, you would forget yourself and show all the empathy and caring, because I get the feeling you are a caring person. The point is, that it is not a 'commandment' that you behave a certain way, this is a belief you have picked up somewhere along the way and may be at the center of your problem.


I wouldn't imagine somebody like Buddha talking all the time, in fact enlightened masters tend to be very silent and only talk when it is necessary. That is because the public relations departments are working overtime to falsely portray this image. Siddhartha was a prince before his awakening, and he partied with the rest of them, and the reason his way became known as the 'Middle Way' is that he rejected the ascetic paths that the monks of the time as well as rejecting his 'worldly' attachments, and preached moderation in all. Jesus was as lively as the next guy, how many people do you think that would kick people out of the temple in that day? If you read Yogananda's autobiography, you get the impression of a very outgoing guy. The point is that there should not be any judgement against yourself, be as you are, socially awkward as anyone else, and as soon as you accept yourself, part of the anxiety may even go away.


I think naturally I am a listener, I was even born quiet and I have been very mature and meditative throughout my life. I also enjoy counselling others and listening to them. The problem is when I am like this I find talking hard. And there is nothing wrong with that- chances are people seek you out precisely because of this about you, so don't feel bad about it.


Could you please help me out there. As you can see I am quite confused :mrgreen: Well, here is my nonprofessional take on this:
Most people who are socially awkward were told as children to be quiet, and possibly that they weren't good enough to share their feelings. Only you know if this is the case with you-and if it is, you need to express to that person if possible how that has harmed you as an adult, and accept whatever they say, even if it is more rejection.
If this is not the case, then I suggest you take a methodical approach to this- if you are talking in a social situation, and you feel the urge to talk, first of all become centered, and then express your concern- in other ways say "I am very shy and not used to talking too much, so excuse me if I'm annoying" and then say whatever you want to say. By expressing this, you will immediately take some pressure off yourself.
This is something I have done, and it has worked with me.
There are other tricks that people do, but the point is that at the center of your phobia is the idea that 'it's not right'. You need to address this somehow, because if you truly think it is not 'right' to express yourself, there are no tricks that are going to get you to do this at all.
Good luck and I hope some of this helped in some way.

[Warrior Spirit]

Yes, it really helped. I feel you genuinely were listening to what I was saying there, and showed a sincere desire to help me :)


Why on earth would this be wrong? I can visualize right as I write this that someone told this to you, and you internalized it and made it yours. The fact is, that even if you talk without listening, you are doing so without guile and out of nervousness, and that is perfectly all right- especially in a social situation.
For some reason I get the feeling that if someone approached you with a tragic story about a terrible thing that happened to them, you would forget yourself and show all the empathy and caring, because I get the feeling you are a caring person. The point is, that it is not a 'commandment' that you behave a certain way, this is a belief you have picked up somewhere along the way and may be at the center of your problem

It is wrong because I would be doing what exactly everybody else is going, putting on an act to cover up my nervousness. Not listening to the other, just focussing on talking, because you are nervous and this is selfish. I don't beleive we should ever stop listening to the other, because I understand what it feels like to not be listened to. This is why my conscience says it is wrong to just talk, and not listen. Just talking is an easy way out. The harder way is to be able to both to be able to listen and to talk, and when talking, to do slowly and clearly. That is when the anxiety hits me the hardest.

I find it soul-warming listening to others and I am not about to give that up, just because I find hard it to talk when listening.


If this is not the case, then I suggest you take a methodical approach to this- if you are talking in a social situation, and you feel the urge to talk, first of all become centered, and then express your concern- in other ways say "I am very shy and not used to talking too much, so excuse me if I'm annoying" and then say whatever you want to say. By expressing this, you will immediately take some pressure off yourself.

I have done this many a times, and when I say it, sometimes it causes some people to laugh because they find it very hard to believe a guy like me has anxiety problems, they often assume I am confident. Still worse, when I do say this, some see this as a vulnerability and then judge me as the "shy one" Thus I am not sure actually saying, "Sorry, I am really shy, I am not use really talking much, so excuse me if I'm annoying" is particularly wise, unless that is the image you want others to have of you. Nor do you want to become identified with the image, "Shy one"

There are two techniques I have come across to deal with the anxiety, which work sometimes, and sometimes they don't work. And because they are opposites of one another, they are really confusing.

Approach 1: Positive thinking
- When the anxiety starts, immediately start to replace it with positive thoughts and positive actions. Act as if you are really confident. Eventually it will replace your previous behaviours and become natural.

Approach 2: Accept it, Embrace it, Be it
- When the anxiety stars, don't try and replace it with positive thoughts and actions, instead be the anxety. Act as you really are- the shy person. Accept this is you and be content with it.

Now here are my problems with these approaches

1) If you act confident, can you really become confident, or rather just become really good at acting confident, that you fail to notice you are acting. Moreover, it takes an effort that goes against your current state of mind. The mind is trying to take you left, and you are fighting against its flow, and taking it right. I know when I am speaking louder than normal(I know when I am acting) and it feels like I am lying to myself.

2) If you just accept and embrace your anxiety, then are you not in effect identifying yourself with the anxiety and thus further reinforcing it. What if you don't want to be the "shy" person and want to be the "confident" person? One does not quit smoking, by smoking some more.

Both of these approaches are like like the right hand and left hand paths in spirituality. And I am really confused which direction to be going in, I can't go both directions.

[ButterflyWoman]

This isn't in direct response to your specific issues, but I thought I'd pass it on for your consideration. I'm not a psychiatrist or a shaman or anything of that sort, just someone who has overcome Panic/Anxiety Disorder and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (amongst other things).

Meditation, when practiced regularly, appears to actually alter the brain and builds grey matter in important areas of the brain, particularly areas having to do with the control and management of emotions. This is part of why it's good for anxiety. It's like building your "emotional regulation muscles". Do it faithfully and it WILL improve all kinds of issues having to do with anxiety and emotions.

I say this as someone with a long history of volatile emotions and very acute anxiety (to the point of having Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and full-on Panic/Anxiety Disorder, as well). Meditation has been an extremely important tool for me in overcoming these things. It didn't happen immediately or instantly, of course, but effects were noticable fairly quickly and only increased as I kept up with the practice of meditation.

So, totally without getting entangled in the specifics of your (or my!) psyche and the issues underneath (which, as noted, may well come up as a result of meditation practice), I can say for sure that meditation is an extremely good idea for any kind of anxiety. Keep at it, it will definitely help.

Here are a few links I've got stashed in my bookmarks folder. Might be of help. Or not. :)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 134655.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090512134655.htm)
http://wellscripts.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... -to-relax/ (http://wellscripts.wordpress.com/2009/01/19/learning-to-relax/)
http://www.dietsinreview.com/diet_colum ... u-smarter/ (http://www.dietsinreview.com/diet_column/07/meditation-makes-you-smarter/)

[WanderRA]

Meditation i find can be a double edged sword.

IT calms your mind, yes. But when your'e with friends at a pub or w/e the increased alertness can amplify the insecurites you have.

You in general terms, not you the OP. I have these difficulties myself, also a throat chakra blockage and it makes sense you making this thread about your voice breaking up.

I think the problem is neither being to overt or being to quiet.... its down to being to critical of yourself.

Perhaps you are trying to hard to do the right thing, or do what "your higher self" expects off you.

The exhuberent and confident people you envy probably dont concern themselfs with self improvement or wanting to be TOO good of a person, they are relaxed at there current level wheras you seem to be frustrated that your'e not being more than you are.

Also, when you do talk, make sure its about something you are interested in.

Do not just talk for the sake of it, to earn browny points with that internal critic "see, i did it, i spoke and they listended"

If you are not interested in the things your saying, noone else will be... the lack of enthusiasm will be felt.

Lazyness can be a cause of having nothing to talk about with people. If you are engaged in your interests you will WANT to tell people about them, but if you spend your time on the couch watching soap operas, its difficult to summon things to discuss with the level of vigour you see others (who you say love themselfs) do.