What are we?

[sono]

I've just had a thought - are we the equivalent of a Magician's egregores, which he recalls & destroys by re-absorbing them into himself, at his will? And from what I have read, this must be done "without mercy", regardless of the protests of the "egregore" being destroyed. I am not at all able to, or in favour of, the creation of such life forms myself (!) but perhaps that's also a misperception . . . . . . it may be something we all do so unconsciously!
I reel mentally to think that the Higher Self could be as totalitarian as the "magician" who recalls his creations if they do not perform the tasks for which they were created.. . . right now I am actually being "attacked" by the thought that this could be what "ascension" is?!

Any comments or (hopefully ?)refutations appreciated!

[ButterflyWoman]

I don't really believe in some all-powerful "Higher Self" who has absolute and autonomous control over us. As far as I have seen and experienced and currently perceive, the "higher self" is nothing more than your own superconsciousness, in the same way that you have a subconsciousness. Your day-to-day conscious awareness is actually quite limited, and it appears that we are, indeed, multi-dimensional beings. Your "higher self" is just one other aspect of the structure of point of view that is currently thinking of itself as "you".

But the deeper question here really IS, "Who am I?" ;)

[sono]

Thanks for that. . . . I have also not experienced a HS octopus-type Being with tentacles (us) as often depicted. . . so I really should throw out the idea, as advised in R Bruce's catch-basket concept, I know. . . I was planning to invesigate it more closely in the astral recently, as mentioned in another thread, but got 'trapped" in my bedroom, couldn't get through the ceiling. . of-course, that may also be because there is no external or at-a-distance being/Place to go & investigate. . . .I find it hard to form an opinion about it so am following up all sorts of maybe's!

[ButterflyWoman]

have also not experienced a HS octopus-type Being with tentacles (us) as often depicted. . . so I really should throw out the idea, as advised in R Bruce's catch-basket concept
With beliefs and concepts like this, I find that it's just as easy to throw them out, because if you later experience something like it, you can just incorporate that right back in, depending on whatever it was you experienced/saw/understood.

If it's not working for you (and it sounds like it isn't), chuck it out. If it's something that will help you or be useful to your journey, it will surely come back and show itself to you. ;)

[sono]

Thank you for those very profound words! I have also intuited what you say - I think it's a lack of trust in my own insights that I suffer from . . . . .! Am interested to hear you are a Shaman, would you be willing to tell more about your expereinces/training etc?

[Neil Templar]

yeah I'm very interested in hearing more too.
Lately many "signs" have brought me back to the teachings of don Juan, and the Toltec Way. I feel this is the discipline that is gonna become my primary focus.
Any insights into that way of life would be greatly appreciated.

[CFTraveler]

I wanted to add a comment that was was addressed, but IMO not enough-
I've just had a thought - are we the equivalent of a Magician's egregores, which he recalls & destroys by re-absorbing them into himself, at his will? And from what I have read, this must be done "without mercy", regardless of the protests of the "egregore" being destroyed. I take objection to this premise- I do not believe that the egregore is a lifeform outside of the magician or the group that 'creates' it- just the necessary attributes that will be used to the specific purpose. So in essence nothing is destroyed- only reabsorbed. The "protests" an egregore can elicit would just be the same protests that your self-aspect (or the aspects of the group that were combined to produce the effect) would produce when there is the realization that it's will will once again be tempered or balanced by the rest of the aspects of the self- sort of like the idea of the ego having it's own 'reality'- something I don't believe in personally.
Of course, I could be wrong.

[sono]

My final attempt to reply, all the others wouldn't post despite my being logged in, so all my wit & erudition is all lost to posterity! :lol:

CFTraveller, I really like your premise much better than mine! I found the egregore idea quite repellent. I don't have any personal experience with Magick , although I've read Franz Bardon et al, & do the banishing pentagrams. I have an emotional reaction against manipulating reality to serve oneself, yet logically I see no reason not to - we all do so, intentionally or not, all the time, don't we? :?

PS I don't remember whether I've asked this before, but have you or anyone else read Michael Topper's notions on why "mind over matter" doesn't "work"? I find his ideas quite convincing, although one has to plough through his astonishing verbiage to find them - it's a pity his obvious wit is lost in all the pomposity.

[CFTraveler]

Michael Topper? No, I'll have to put it on my list.
Did you clear the cookies, like OW said?
I've noticed for the last few days the forum seemed slow, and I wasn't sure if it was my computer.
It seems normal now, but if I were you I'd write stuff on notepad first, then copy it to the posting box, just in case.

[CFTraveler]

One time I woke up from this reality into another reality, and this reality seemed like a silly daydream I shook off my sleepiness and went on about the business of my day. Then I woke up from that reality back into this reality, and that reality seemed like a dream. The only problem is that the other reality seemed realer than this one, hard to describe but true. Maybe the Australian aboriginals are right, the Dreamtime is the real world and this reality is merely a dream. That's just one of many journeying stories I have, but this posting is not the time or place for more of them. I have episodes of this, and it is a weird experience the first time it happens. After it becomes part of your life, you get used to it.
It's not unlike moving somewhere else and staying there long enough to feel that you've always lived there. Then you go back to the original place, and after a couple of weeks it feels like that. And if you do it enough times, you get used to it, but there is an initial weird feeling of unreality.
My experiences of this sort have always been spontaneous though, and I consider them part of discovering your multidimensionality.