Scientists induce OBE using magnets

[Beekeeper]

In this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCVzz96zKA0) scientists use magnets to create out of body experiences and entity experiences. The experiment is interesting, however, it does not address the verifications people have made after such experiences.

This one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQAc_Z2OfQ) from New Scientist is about another method scientists are using to induce the experience.

[Beekeeper]

A little more searching has yielded this (http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j39/out-of-body.asp). Here's RB's reaction:

ROBERT BRUCE

In my opinion, these experiments mimic the fundamental principle of all out-of-body “exit techniques.” Therefore it is not surprising that these experiments are producing low-power OBE-like symptoms.

There are two types of OBE exit methods, and the principles of each are the same—which are to exteriorize conscious body awareness, in part or in full, and to trick the body-mind into believing it is already outside of the physical body.

I think these experiments go a long way toward supporting the reality of OBEs. Further studies are obviously required, and I am confident that these will unearth even more similarities between virtual-reality-induced OBEs and more powerful types of OBEs, including the near-death experience (the most powerful form of OBE).

[CFTraveler]

I always find that what most of these experiments show is how the brain is involved in the process, and nothing more. Like you say, it doesn't explain how people can obtain perceptual information from outside the body's general vicinity, as in some cases.

[Beekeeper]

If it could be used widely to induce these experiences and people started to realise not only that they were real but that one could bring back certain information, then we might have a spiritual revolution on our hands. Think of the number of people who have struggled vainly for years to induce an OBE that would benefit. It might also be a choice people would make instead of potentially dangerous drugs.

[ButterflyWoman]

If it could be used widely to induce these experiences and people started to realise not only that they were real but that one could bring back certain information, then we might have a spiritual revolution on our hands.
You know "science" would never go for that. Look at the years of evidence for psi that Dean Radin has accumulated, and nobody wants to take it seriously or even examine the data for themselves. Any experiment where the state is actually induced is immediately going to lead the majority of scientists (and other skeptics who are NOT scientists) to scoff and dismiss the results entirely. After all, it was induced! Can't be real! (Which is a bit like saying an induced labour isn't real, but I can testify that it most certainly is ;)).

I have nothing against science, per se (as mentioned, I'm married to a jen-you-wine science guy), but I have very little reason to think that there is any amount of scientific research that would convince people that OBE, NDE, psi, or anything related is "real".

Ha, but the joke's on them, because it's actually the material world and shared reality that isn't real.... :P 8) :twisted:

[jayzfelon]

All they are doing is using elctro magnetic field which cause paranoia, feeling of being watch and all kinds of things. It has nothing to do with out of body, for people that have experience real obe can justify this. I hate it when scientist discover something new and they put their own spin to it. I understand that they are trying to understand this obe otherwise they wouldnt create this machine. But what I dont get is why not just simply try it without those equipments and after succesfully attaining obe try this machine and match the experience before putting this video up. I watched the whole thing and its nothing close to obe.

[Beekeeper]

All they are doing is using elctro magnetic field which cause paranoia, feeling of being watch and all kinds of things. It has nothing to do with out of body, for people that have experience real obe can justify this. I hate it when scientist discover something new and they put their own spin to it.

I have to disagree with you there. For example, one of the subjects felt a being rush past him. Many of us here have felt other entities when in our etheric bodies. He even goes on to suggest that it may have been his own self that passed by, so we're talking the bi-location experience or the sitter/hag on the threshold experience where the projector's consciousness within the body notices what the etheric body is doing and fails to understand that it's its own astral double. In addition, we often associate magnetic feelings/electricity with exits and returns. People also encounter beings they consider angelic, alien or demonic and the subject says that halfway through his hour of isolation the computer begins "generating a markedly darker experience," that is conditions whereby volunteers felt they had met the devil or were grabbed by aliens or transported to hell, which we know has been reported in the OBE literature. The pulses also create floating and spinning sensations that are often associated with OBEs and he talks about feeling waves where he leaves and returns to his body. So, they are creating the experience at the basic level.

Of course, the announcer is biased in his use of language, identifying the experiences with phrases like "misfirings of the brain" and "hallucinations", assuming that people who don't have these experiences are "normal" and those who do are defective and "fantasy prone". It's a matter of interpreting the data.

You're right, OW, science won't go for it but commercial interests probably would if they could make a buck. :wink:

[ButterflyWoman]

Of course, the announcer is biased in his use of language, identifying the experiences with phrases like "misfirings of the brain" and "hallucinations", assuming that people who don't have these experiences are "normal" and those who do are defective and "fantasy prone". It's a matter of interpreting the data.
See? ;)

Actually, a couple of years ago, when I found out that a number of "spiritual" or "ecstatic" experiences could be induced via various magnetic, electronic, sound, etc. means, I was kind of freaked out. I was still in my "but wait, maybe this is all crazy" stage where I hadn't found a good balance between rationality and metaphysical.

Eventually, I came to understand that just because something similar to spontaneous spiritual experiences can be induced, that doesn't invalidate anything. You can also induce labour (as I mentioned), and you can induce orgasm (no further comment necessary), plus it's been found that probing the brain with electronic probes can cause memories to fire (that was fascinating; they actually poke around in someone's head while the person is awake :shock:). However, none of that means that childbirth is "fake", or that memories are anything other than what they appear to be (not going to discuss fake orgasms, though :twisted:).

So, yeah, sure they can sometimes find ways to get the brain to act in ways that cause certain perceptions. So what? It only means that the brain can be manipulated to have certain perceptions. :)

[dobidou]

I remember reading a girl's blog, about her experiments using magnets, she mentionned either feeling headache, or some easiness for "getting out", depending on the use of them. But Gosh, this is a while ago, lost the reference of it. A while ago, there were not as much info on the subject, nor scientific points of view, but a bunch of website mentionning about OBE just after the Alien-Abduction-section and the Ghost institute (websites using stars, candles and satanic signs as background image hahaha). But that girls was on a blog, with so many evidence that it was real and no bull-sheet... :)

I got in that subject again recently, having weird experience I related to electromagnetism...
http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14749


Eventually, I came to understand that just because something similar to spontaneous spiritual experiences can be induced...

There is the "God Elmet"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet

I keep having fun talking with my neurologist scientific friends, who definitivaly connects all thoses "defective human abilities" to epilespsi and cie :P


Eventually, I came to understand that just because something similar to spontaneous spiritual experiences can be induced, that doesn't invalidate anything. You can also induce labour (as I mentioned), and you can induce orgasm (no further comment necessary)...

Researchers using virtual reality to induce (then heal) anxiety (like phobias), still have too few clues about induction. When it's working, it's so fun, but it's not working 100% of the time, that is one reason why this research or treatment is just slowly being accepted by scientific community. They only admit that "it can work". So what about using induction to prove anything... since once in a "mental environment" anything is possible, from healing to seing pink elephants flying?

Maybe Science will connect to the missing links once Science accept that there is missing datas. Still, as soon as you leave the classic books, you fall into the "freak show" which needs to be killed down like UFO, God(s), spirits... in the same big blender haha. Every science doesn't have to connect to every other science at first breaths... Thanks to you guys for taking part of this new science :idea:

[WraithBlade2012]

A little more searching has yielded this (http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j39/out-of-body.asp). Here's RB's reaction:

ROBERT BRUCE

In my opinion, these experiments mimic the fundamental principle of all out-of-body “exit techniques.” Therefore it is not surprising that these experiments are producing low-power OBE-like symptoms.

There are two types of OBE exit methods, and the principles of each are the same—which are to exteriorize conscious body awareness, in part or in full, and to trick the body-mind into believing it is already outside of the physical body.

I think these experiments go a long way toward supporting the reality of OBEs. Further studies are obviously required, and I am confident that these will unearth even more similarities between virtual-reality-induced OBEs and more powerful types of OBEs, including the near-death experience (the most powerful form of OBE)..


I just would like to buy a homemade device for under a hundred dollars, there has to be a way - our bodies operate on a frequency - I think all we have to find out is "what" frequency and "how" to manipulate it

[dobidou]

I just would like to buy a homemade device for under a hundred dollars, there has to be a way - our bodies operate on a frequency - I think all we have to find out is "what" frequency and "how" to manipulate it

So far, there is the research from Dr. Monroe Institute, which works with audio frequencies (not quite right pinned up in here but still), he proved we can get interesting results, for some purposes. As for electromagnetism (only magnets) else then the "God Helmet" - which hasn't been successfully reproduced in laboratory, anything that goes with eletrodes on the skull needs some "medical support", I never heard (or look for) incident reports, but this thing is electric, and directly applied on skin (with conductive lubricant haha) :P

But after we test that on rats, I would try :D PM-me if you find anything :D

[CFTraveler]

For more information on binaural beats, check out the AD Pedia. It isn't really what I think you're talking about, but it's one of the ways to induce trance states to promote LDing and projection.

[WraithBlade2012]

I wish there was a device that could instantly make my astral body jump out, without it costing thousands of dollars - and to have it available and affordable for everyone. Heck!!, the person who makes that device would be eliminating all of the bullcrap web sites out there that claim false results. I wish I could talk to someone on the phone about this and make this device a reality, life is too short - let's have fun projecting cause it's everyone's birthright.
If I could talk to someone that has the ability to design such a device, without giving me a bunch of horse deposit - that would be great!!!!

If anyone would like to email this poster or call him on the phone please use the pm function. If such poster has the email function enabled, it is possible to email using it.
Thanks, Admin

[dobidou]

WraightBlade, if you ever get the "vacuum-type" kind of getting out, you wont need that... Side-subject to that, I was chatting with my bro today, he started to experiences things using deep trance concentration, and we were wondering if "this way of living" could be the future, I mean, having everyone to know this new "science" or more this "way of living and seing things"... I dont know how to deal with the political point of view of it, but outside the fact that there is still too few people ready for it, I would say now that having a "tool" who could get an "instant projection" would be like introducing a Ferrari 2009 to a man from 1509, would be certainly funny and cool, but weird at same time...

Do you think we are ready for that?

[CFTraveler]

WraightBlade, if you ever get the "vacuum-type" kind of getting out, you wont need that... Side-subject to that, I was chatting with my bro today, he started to experiences things using deep trance concentration, and we were wondering if "this way of living" could be the future, I mean, having everyone to know this new "science" or more this "way of living and seing things"... I dont know how to deal with the political point of view of it, but outside the fact that there is still too few people ready for it, I would say now that having a "tool" who could get an "instant projection" would be like introducing a Ferrari 2009 to a man from 1509, would be certainly funny and cool, but weird at same time...

Do you think we are ready for that? Well, the thing is that the information on how to project has been known for thousands of years, in cultures that supported this type of endeavor. The Mystics knew how to do it in ancient India (and more modern India, just read Yogananda's autobiography), there are references to it in the Bible, for example- but the type of people that become interested in this kind of thing are the mystics, which we all are, (or on our way to be) whether we live in a city, a country or a cave in the woods, lol) So as of now I think the information is out there in spades- all you have to do is google Astral Projection to get umpteen zillion websites about it- but the type of person that is truly interested in it is still relatively small- although I think this is changing, maybe this is part of the 'changes' that so many expect- an opening on a greater scale to the 'greater reality', whatever that is.
Just my opinion, of course, feel free to disagree.

[CFTraveler]

As to using a machine to do it? This is typical 21-st century thinking, relying on technology to get that quick-fix. AP is a natural thing we all do, and if machines can get us to do it we will never be sure if the experience is genuine, because it could be generated by the machine. In other words, we'd have the same doubts we've always had, but even less sure, IMO.

[dobidou]

Yes I agree :D

It takes time to master any art, or almost anything, and it takes a life to understands our life as well. I bet that the earlier we start learning something we like, the best it is, and as long as we are kids being learning, it means we're going up. I believe too that one day society might have more of us :)