Kundalini & Baptism by Spirit

[dreamosis]

Does anybody see a connection between kundalini experiences and the Baptism by Spirit (or Fire) alluded to in the New Testament?

[CFTraveler]

Yep.

[dreamosis]

In the Mormon church, in which I was raised till I began rebelling against it at 11, it's taught that the Baptism by Fire (or by the Holy Ghost) is conferred in the ceremony that follows the Baptism by Immersion (water).

Mormons baptize children at eight years old. This usually involves an interview between the eight-year-old and the Bishop in which the child is asked if they think they're worthy. Most say yes. A water baptism is performed and then afterwards the elder-priests of the church perform a laying on of hands for the child. During the laying on of hands, the elders pray that the child be blessed with the gift of the Holy Ghost. (They say "Holy Ghost" in the LDS faith instead of "Holy Spirit").

The gift of the Holy Ghost is supposed to permanently change you. You always have it unless you're excommunicated or voluntarily revoke your membership. It's taught that the Holy Ghost acts like a still, small voice or conscience inside of you, steering you always toward good and away from evil.

It seems, too, that a lot of mainstream Christian traditions teach that the Baptism by Fire happens along with conversion -- that is, accepting Jesus Christ as a personal Lord and savior. To my knowledge, though, only Mormons teach that the Baptism by Fire involves the conferral of a guiding spiritual entity.

[ButterflyWoman]

Does anybody see a connection between kundalini experiences and the Baptism by Spirit (or Fire) alluded to in the New Testament?
Yes. I absolutely see the connection, and I believe they are one and the same, just going by different names. Basically, it's the same phenomenon, from what I can tell and what I've read.

[dreamosis]

I did some poking around mainstream Christian sites and found that the Baptism by Fire (or Holy Spirit) seems to have two popular interpretations:

(1) it is regarded as synonymous with conversion
(2) it is thought to be hell-fire that the wicked will burn in

[ButterflyWoman]

Look up "Kundalini Energy and Christian Spirituality" by Philip St. Romain. He's a devoted Roman Catholic who has experienced Kundalini Awakening, and he writes about it from a decidedly Christian perspective.

Also, a Google search for Christian Kundalini will turn up a lot of very interesting material.

Searching for "Baptism of Fire" will, as well, but it's not going to give the same kind of results, because you get a lot of very dogmatic views that cannot or will not be open to cross-cultural interpretation.

[dreamosis]

Also, a Google search for Christian Kundalini will turn up a lot of very interesting material.

Thanks for the tip. That was a much more profitable search than "Baptism of Fire." I read a little of St. Romain's book, too.

What fascinated me about the first link I came on (http://www.innerexplorations.com/ewtext/ke.htm) was this comment:


A misunderstanding about Kundalini is that it is an "energy." This is to confuse metaphor with mechanism -- and it is dangerous to do so. Many people take up Eastern spiritual practices with the intention of having an "Experience" and of manipulating "Energy" and have no clue about what they are doing in terms of meaning, method, or consequences. The literature is metaphorical, cryptic, and I suspect, incomplete for good reason, and some Eastern teachers certainly have been irresponsible -- or ignorant themselves -- in how they've disseminated the information. The Kundalini phenomenon is better described as a process that works with the energy. The process is the catharsis of consciousness. It's equivalent in Christianity is the mystical descent of the Holy Spirit.

The understanding of kundalini as clearing process resonates a lot with my experiences. I've personally ever had two "negative" spike experiences (one after trying Robert Bruce's NEW techniques pretty intensely), and overall my experiences have been mild and enjoyable.

One very positive experience was when I was saying my wedding vows. I was looking at my new wife, saying my vows, and there was a sudden blissful surge of energy upwards through my body. It was very obvious and not just a stirring of emotion.


It's equivalent in Christianity is the mystical descent of the Holy Spirit.

The connection from kundalini to the descent of the Holy Spirit is interesting to me because of my Mormon background. Like I wrote above, Mormons teach that the confirmation after water baptism is the Baptism of Fire, or by the Holy Spirit. I know a lot of Mormons who have strongly felt, or seemed to feel, the presence of Holy Ghost given to them at eight years old. I personally never felt it. I wondered about it, and tried to feel it, but came to the conclusion that for many it's just an empty ritual.

I also think -- and have talked to other Mormons about this -- that sometimes what's conferred in those rituals is a negative spiritual entity whose mission is to keep the individual from straying outside of the group. But I'm off-topic.

Do you guys think that the kundalini phenomenon could be seen simply as the process of the higher self integrating more and more with the lower self? And that the kundalini "energy" experienced is just the coming together of higher and lower energies?

[dreamosis]

it is the mystical marriage within, a romance, the "song of songs" at long last, the union.

That's so applicable for me right now because my intuition has been telling me repeatedly in the last couple of weeks that it's imperative for me to seek my "Inner Beloved." ... I wrote elsewhere that my subconscious or higher self is almost always experienced as a female lover. Hmmm.

[ButterflyWoman]

The understanding of kundalini as clearing process resonates a lot with my experiences.
The purpose of a metaphorical "baptism of fire" is to purify. There are a number of references in the Bible to the process of putting silver or gold in a forge for the purpose of purification. The intense heat causes the precious metal to separate from the impurities. My experience is that that's what it refers to (that's certainly how it happened with me).


One very positive experience was when I was saying my wedding vows. I was looking at my new wife, saying my vows, and there was a sudden blissful surge of energy upwards through my body. It was very obvious and not just a stirring of emotion.
I've had experiences like that. Not during my wedding, but at other times when my husband and I were first together. It was a sudden flame of "this is RIGHT". I associated it with God/Source.


Do you guys think that the kundalini phenomenon could be seen simply as the process of the higher self integrating more and more with the lower self?
That's a good part of it. And sometimes to do that, some or most of the existing ego structure has to be destroyed and rebuilt (or some parts simply discarded entirely). It can be a difficult process, though it doesn't have to be. It depends on a lot of factors, including the health and structure of the existing ego and how much you resist the process.


And that the kundalini "energy" experienced is just the coming together of higher and lower energies?
That's an interesting idea. I'll have to think about that. ;)

[CFTraveler]

It's what I've come to believe too. Reintegration requires restructuring.

[dreamosis]

thus, the true, imo, meanings for the baptism are not examples of flesh being risen up

Every truly amazing experience I've had has been more of a spirit-coming-into-the-body rather than spirit-transcending-it.

[star]

A misunderstanding about Kundalini is that it is an "energy." This is to confuse metaphor with mechanism -- and it is dangerous to do so. Many people take up Eastern spiritual practices with the intention of having an "Experience" and of manipulating "Energy" and have no clue about what they are doing in terms of meaning, method, or consequences. The literature is metaphorical, cryptic, and I suspect, incomplete for good reason, and some Eastern teachers certainly have been irresponsible -- or ignorant themselves -- in how they've disseminated the information. The Kundalini phenomenon is better described as a process that works with the energy. The process is the catharsis of consciousness. It's equivalent in Christianity is the mystical descent of the Holy Spirit.

Gopi Krishna associates it as energy, very vividly, so do many other authors who have experienced it, yes, there is a change of conciousness - and a change to the nervous system. So why does the qoute discount this?

[dreamosis]

So why does the quote discount this?

I wouldn't say it's wrong per se to think of Kundalini as an energy, but focusing on it as such puts you in the mindset that kundalini can be applied to your soul through exercises like lotion can be applied to your skin. It can, but doing it that way is probably what will invite all of the ominous side-effects.

The belief, if I'm not mistaken, behind the quote is that a Cartesian understanding of kundalini is limiting. In other words, if you think of it as a thing, you could be missing out -- you're focusing on means instead of ends. What is important is the experience of the change in consciousness, not the experience of the energy. Think of Kundalini as money. Do you only want to have money, or do you want to be able to spend it too?

It's very tempting when you're energy-aware, or when you're first becoming aware, to focus on the experience. And so you have a powerful OBE, or feel a chakra spinning fast, or see a vision, or experience a kundalini spike. But none of these experiences mean anything in and of themselves. They're only meaningful insofar as they practically help us to live more wisely and happily.

Also, on a technical note, it hasn't been my experience that kundalini is literally stored in the root chakra (I would say that's metaphor); rather, it seems like it is generated by a certain rate of activity in the root. It's more like a harmonic of the root chakra at a given "tone." And this energy harmonic moves upward, affecting the rest of the centers.

Kundalini is also referred to as the "inner fire." Metaphorically, kundlini is raised by blowing on the root chakra, enflaming it, and causing a fire to rise through you. But the feeling of fire isn't the point of the fire; the point is "baptism."

[star]

Thanks for the clarification.

[dreamosis]

A simple technique I've learned for raising kundalini is to concentrate on your root chakra and "rev" it up. Make it spin as fast as you can. Breathe, and let the energy move upward. If you prefer to visualize it, choose a bright color like fire-engine red or spring green. Notice if it stops anywhere along the central channel. Check in if it stops and ask yourself what the block is. Breathe and let the kundalini work on the block.