Homosexuality- Gift or 'Spiritual Handicap?'

[Psychonaut1984]

I have been reading a lot of things all over the internet, especially in some forums related to Taoism saying that Homosexuality is a 'spiritual handicap.' One person went as far as saying that homosexuals should not practice anything remotely involving when it comes to spiritual endeavors because it would be potentially dangerous to that person's psyche, being that all homosexuals are supposedly born off balance. I can't quote these sources off the top of my head.

Anyway despite how discouraging some of these opinions are, it made me question what exactly it means to be gay from a spiritual perspective. I know from my personal experience, I know that its not as simple as just sexual preference, there is a lot more to being gay then just liking the same sex. I feel as though being gay has in many ways (possibly indirectly) driven me to this very path that I am on right now; in pursuit of finding the truth, and peace in within myself and the world around me. I know this isn't necessarily the case for everyone, but in my case I feel like it really forced me to really examine who I am, and move past a lot of the superficial bs that plagues most people today.

I have read somewhere else that in some cultures they consider homosexuality to be a good thing and on the contrary to that other opinion I mentioned, means to be more balanced of feminine and masculine energies. I don't know exactly what all of this means, if it has any relevence, or if there is any truth behind it.

Part of me wants to fluff off that being a homosexual does not have any impact on my spiritual life, but In my opinion I feel like being gay has maybe indirectly opened my mind to a lot of things. I don't know if this has to do with just constantly feeling like an outsider and having to find my own way in life or if part of my sexuality has a role in my spirituality. I am not sure whether I agree if it is a 'spiritual handicap' and even if it is now that I am heavily involved in several spiritual practices, like astral projection and now I am thinking of getting involved in Hermetic mysticism, I don't think in my heart I could possibly give this up now.

Please share your thoughts on this issue.

[Korpo]

To me it is a non-issue. The innate sexuality one feels drawn to - personality distortions aside - is the only way you can be anyway. Whether this is heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality or asexuality. The main problem is not what you're attracted to, but what you find to be true within yourself when honestly looking inside and then to accept that.

I do not believe homosexuality is worse than any of these options, or better. It's just another inborn expression of the sexual urge.

I don't believe it has any "spiritual impact" beyond how you feel about yourself.

Oliver

[wstein]

Its not inherently either a help or handicap from a spiritual or energetic point of view.

There are a few practical issues caused by the way in which society treats spiritual or homosexual individuals.

In shamanic cultures, shamans are MORE likely to have alternative sexual preferences. In many of the Central American traditions, the shaman is also the councilor. This includes treating sexual issues of all genders. As part of the functioning religion in those societies shamans tend to be more spiritual.

In modern western culture dealing with being different from the "norm" for any reason is fairly similar psychologically, as such coping skills are readily transferable. In these societies, spiritual is as different from religious (the majority) as homosexuality is from heterosexuality. In my experience, spirituality blossoms more fully when freed from the conformity of societal norms. So perhaps a bit of advantage here too.

In some places, any indication of 'deviation' is treated with harsh punishment. Lack of space and freedom to explore and practice can be a huge disadvantage. In some extreme cases terminal.

In heavily Christian areas heavy guilt can be levied against homosexuals. The problems caused by taking on the guilt are numerous and can be spiritually crippling.

So in summary; homosexuality places no limitations on spiritual potential, but circumstances within society impact spiritual development.

[Psychonaut1984]

I just came across this link right after I posted this topic. Ironically it mentions things that sound similar to what I was saying about having chosen this before I was born as a means of progressing:
http://www.askrealjesus.com/L_CURRENTAF ... exual.html (http://www.askrealjesus.com/L_CURRENTAFFAIRS/HOMOSEXUALITY/cause_of_homosexual.html)

Quote from the article:

"For some reason a lot of this made sense to me. Basically this article says that homosexuality is caused from an inbalance of male/female energires before you are born, usually when the soul realizes it is entering a lower state of consciousness. It states that the best course of action is to reach a state of moving beyond sexuality. It discourages being in a relationship and having homosexual sex. It also mentions mystics who being life as a homosexual and use this life as a means to deal with the their spiritual wounds. This progress will backfire if they engage too much in homosexual activity.

In the new book, Save Yourself, we talk in great detail about why a soul often chooses to embody in very difficult circumstances. The main reason is that certain circumstances can force the soul to deal with some of its psychological hang-ups. Only by resolving these psychological blocks, can the soul make spiritual progress.

I have explained that the true cause of homosexuality is an imbalance between the soul’s male and female aspects. Some souls have reached a point where they can make no further progress until they resolve this imbalance. Therefore, certain souls can indeed choose to embody as homosexuals in order to force themselves to deal with the issue of sexuality and the imbalance between male and female aspects. Yet this is not done because the soul believes homosexuality is more spiritual or a higher from of sexuality. It is simply done as a tool to help the soul resolve its imbalances and therefore move beyond all homosexual tendencies.

I can state very clearly that there are no homosexual beings in heaven—no matter what certain people seem to believe. You cannot enter heaven as long as you have an imbalance between the male and female aspects of your own soul. When you do achieve the correct balance between male and female aspects, you transcend what most human beings see as sexuality. This does not mean that the soul loses its male or female nature. It means that the soul loses the need and desire to express sexuality through a physical body."

My heart sunk a bit when I read this, partially because this rings really true to me for some reason. I have been increasingly worried that I need to do something in order to progress in this lifetime. Maybe becoming non-sexual might have to be one of those things? I really hope I didn't screw up my chances of progressing in this life now. I just started dating someone but if thats true then that means I have to break it off now.

[ButterflyWoman]

Yup, I agree with Oliver and wstein. I don't think it's a gift OR a handicap. It just is what it is.

I understand that homosexuality can be a social handicap in a good many cultures and societies, of course. Overcoming pain and confusion and so forth can be used for spiritual growth, but, frankly, so can a lot of things, including some very bad things. It is a gift to be able to use difficult events and as a springboard for spiritual growth; the "thing" or circumstances you're overcoming or transcending actually don't make much different (and, in my opinion, are not usually "gifts").

I think one's sexual orientation is just like any other aspect of their current incarnation. It just is what it is. Is being female a gift or a spiritual handicap? Some would say both, most would say neither. What about being thin or fat? How about being good with numbers? In all cases, the traits and qualities we have can be good, bad, or none of the above, and can help or hinder, depending on our unique circumstances and how we deal with the situations we have to deal with.

[Psychonaut1984]

Do any of you think this is something that I should be concerned about trying to fix or transcend in case this is a symptom of having a spiritual problem?

[Beekeeper]

Personally, I think we all do better if we simply express and experience love as it comes. So, concentrate on love in its many expressions and you'll be fine. Remember, too, to love yourself!

[Korpo]

My heart sunk a bit when I read this, partially because this rings really true to me for some reason. I have been increasingly worried that I need to do something in order to progress in this lifetime. Maybe becoming non-sexual might have to be one of those things? I really hope I didn't screw up my chances of progressing in this life now. I just started dating someone but if thats true then that means I have to break it off now.

So, you're becoming worried. That's not the ring of the truth, that's the ego running circles because of conflicts in your personality. Guilt, inferiority complex, whatever. You fear social rejection. Rejection can feel like withdrawing love, which in my experience can feel like being withdrawn existence itself.

From my personal experience there's a lot of ♥♥♥♥ed-up bozos out there writing a lot of the most idiotic crap about spiritual development and "energies". Sorry, cannot put it another way, really, because it makes me mad. It makes me furious if someone tries to convince others, out of their own homophobe tendencies, to not pursue their own sexuality in a healthy and open matter. It makes me furious because I know that having a partner and fulfilling oneself in this way is a vital and gratifying experience, and it is not only gratifying the lower self, but also the soul.

Most Daoist sites out there are plain crap. More so if they start to discuss "alchemy" or "sexual energies". I find this whole school of Daoism is being sensationalised, little is known, and since sexual energy carries quite a punch, a lot of non-spiritual people suddenly feel like "masters" or whatever while painting themselves in a spiritual corner. Given the nature of Daoist philosophy I am actually dismayed how many wannna-bes are out there expounding about a person's sexuality or spiritual development, based on the limited horizon of some master that maybe lived a few hundred years ago in a cave and may not have been so masterful at all.

The thing about sexual expression is this - you can only be true to yourself. Your true self. You can only follow the feeling of love, and how it wishes to express itself. Some people need nothing but platonic love in their lives, and have no sexual drive at all. They can be celibate, no bad consequences. Some people feel drawn to men, some to women, some to both. As long as it is love and not expression of some trauma or inner pain it is all for the best.

When you feel for your partner in a loving, caring way, if you feel this deep bond of trust, if you feel at home with a person, and then even feel a sexual attraction, what in the world would be the sense behind all of this if that limited your progress as a being? When sex is an expression of love instead of just a self-gratifying exercise, if you are experiencing it with another person instead of making that person an object only, then what could be wrong with that?

Homophobia seems to have penetrated into many "spiritual" schools - simply because it is such a strong cultural bias. I don't believe it has any spiritual validity whatsoever.

I do not believe in repressing or "sublimating" the sexual desire. IMO that is crippling part of yourself - how can that be elevating? If you have it, you have it.

Oliver

[Korpo]

Do any of you think this is something that I should be concerned about trying to fix or transcend in case this is a symptom of having a spiritual problem?

I think the worries themselves are the problem. Maybe you need to take a close look at some of the beliefs underlying your life, or you end up having a less-fulfilling relationship simply because parts of you inside clash and collide - some beliefs somebody gave you that collide with your most basic needs. Better know those beliefs. These beliefs are what make you "vulnerable" to these articles that try to convince you homosexuality is in any way tainted spiritually. Without a belief along similar lines inside yourself, it would not resonate at all.

Maybe you unearth and undo that belief. IMO you would find it becomes a very different, more satisfying life for you, then. Nobody likes to live with guilt, doubt or shame. Better find those ideas and confront them, before they become an "enemy inside".

Take good care,
Oliver

[Beekeeper]

Yay, go Oliver!

[Ouroboros]

I agree completely with what Oliver said. As long as you're comfortable with yourself, that's the most important thing. Don't let others try to put a wedge into your soul by telling you that you need to conform to a certain standard to enter Heaven. You're God! Maybe their heaven sucks anyways, so make your own!

[Psychonaut1984]

Wow, thank you for these responses and pointing that out.

I flop back and forth with my beliefs as far as this topic goes, sometimes its really hard for me to tell when I am being true to myself or if it is my ego talking because, honestly neither side feels right to me sometimes, and sometimes I think I would be better off obstaining from sex completely. This is a perfectly acceptable decision in many spiritual practices but I feel like I am doing this partly out of fear and guilt, and that is the part that doesn't sit right with me. I feel like that means that I didn't learn my lesson or trascend the problem.

I mean maybe I am just being a cry baby and that is really the only way to evolve from the situation I am in now, but how would I be expected to know this? I am not hurting anyone. It seems like from day one most of this confusion is what has been causing the hurt, because it is going against what in my reality feels normal, not the 'problem' in question.

[Korpo]

Well, what you feel about the problem is a wholly different matter. Those are valid concerns you have to work through, and there are no quick answers. Just don't get confused by the "spiritual" opinions of that ilk you mentioned. You'll find *your* answer in time.

It might indeed take time, but as long as you're honest with yourself, and willing to face guilt and fear in order to overcome them, it will be all for the best, whatever the outcome. There's no spiritual disadvantage for any sexual orientation, I'm sure.

Take care,
Oliver

[Underdog]

Homosexuality is deviant behavior and should be avoided at all costs. Things will work much smoother when you go with the spiritual traffic, and not the wrong way on a one way street.

Sorry to be the bad guy; just trying to help.

UD

[CFTraveler]

Homosexuality is deviant behavior and should be avoided at all costs. Things will work much smoother when you go with the spiritual traffic, and not the wrong way on a one way street.

Sorry to be the bad guy; just trying to help.

UD
Homosexuality is behavior inherrent in any species that uses sexual reproduction. It is present in all animals that have sexual reproduction. So to say that it is deviant is not to know what deviant means.
And not, I don't believe you are trying to help- not even a little bit.

[ButterflyWoman]

Homosexuality is deviant behavior and should be avoided at all costs.
So, how does one "avoid" being homosexual? It's easy enough to become celibate (well, it's easy in theory), but the basic attraction is always going to be there. If someone told me to stop being attracted to men, I can tell you right now, it wouldn't work. I am now and have always been attracted to men. Since the body I currently inhabit happens to be female, that's socially acceptable, but if I'd been born into a male body, I'd be considered, by some people, to be some sort of deviant.

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. The physical body and the material world are illusion, and Spirit is not about physical gender.

[Psychonaut1984]

Homosexuality is deviant behavior and should be avoided at all costs.
So, how does one "avoid" being homosexual? It's easy enough to become celibate (well, it's easy in theory), but the basic attraction is always going to be there. If someone told me to stop being attracted to men, I can tell you right now, it wouldn't work. I am now and have always been attracted to men. Since the body I currently inhabit happens to be female, that's socially acceptable, but if I'd been born into a male body, I'd be considered, by some people, to be some sort of deviant.

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. The physical body and the material world are illusion, and Spirit is not about physical gender.

This is basically what I am talking about... It doesn't really make sense to me either. That's my whole conflict, if it is wrong, how am I supposed to know that by going with 'my nature' it would keep me from progressing spiritually in this lifetime. Then does that mean that in my following lifetimes I will continue being gay possibly spiraling downward in the process, lowering my vibration, drifting farther and farther away from 'God', until I learn to transcend it?

I am open to both sides but if being gay is a symptom of the soul punishing itself, how can expressing true love in a way that comes naturally, not necessarily lustfully, be the one thing that might keep you from evolving? So basically until you learn this lesson you might have to keep repeating lifetimes until you become a celibate holy person.

I've been spending all day thinking about this but its starting to give me a headache. I'm really trying to examine both sides in the hopes that the truth will sink in with me. The problem is that I agree with both sides.

[ButterflyWoman]

Then does that mean that in my following lifetimes I will continue being gay possibly spiraling downward in the process, lowering my vibration, drifting farther and farther away from 'God', until I learn to transcend it?
I suggest you direct this question directly to The Source of All Things. I'm completely serious. Ask, with an honest heart, and you'll get your answer. You don't have to take it on any earthly authority. Get it from the Source. (It WILL come to you if you ask. Really.)


So basically until you learn this lesson you might have to keep repeating lifetimes until you become a celibate holy person.
Being a celibate holy person doesn't fix anything, either. I won't go into all of my other life memories, but trust me, celibacy and/or holy vocation don't release you from any sort of cycles of karma or whatever you want to call it. :)


The problem is that I agree with both sides.
Just ask the Source of All That Is. Ask for clarity, and you will receive it. It may not come in a big rush of enlightenment or anything, but you will.

I'm sorry about your headache. Sending some healing, loving energy your way, and my sincere blessings. May you receive and accept the clarity you seek. And so it is.

[Korpo]

I am open to both sides but if being gay is a symptom of the soul punishing itself,

No soul punishes itself. While I have read, the real sins (like murder) have definitely be made up to the other soul you harmed, punishment itself goes against the very idea of the soul trying to evolve.

If you really are worried about the kind of comment Underdog has made, you must be very insecure about this.


how can expressing true love in a way that comes naturally, not necessarily lustfully, be the one thing that might keep you from evolving?

Who said you are disallowed lust? You're sticking to extremes here. True love evolves. It grows. Many relationships start very lustful and then become lasting companionships. True love and lust do not exclude each other. The only thing I warned about was lust being the only motivation - a person who's just out to "score" and has no regard for actually looking for a relationship. That is totally selfish.


So basically until you learn this lesson you might have to keep repeating lifetimes until you become a celibate holy person.

And what if celibacy isn't required and a false goal? For some, celibacy can ease attaining clarity. For others it is just a heavy burden. Everybody has to find out for themselves if they can live like that without distorting what they are.


I've been spending all day thinking about this but its starting to give me a headache. I'm really trying to examine both sides in the hopes that the truth will sink in with me. The problem is that I agree with both sides.

I know the feeling. I had the choice between love and what at that time appeared - on the surface! - right. It was a hard choice, and I chose love. I never ever regret it. What had appeared right, never was. One cannot sacrifice oneself to another person, or try to eradicate one's real needs. That's never in the interest of the soul.

The ideas that float around in your reasoning - that we evolve to be celibate, that the soul punishes itself or is punished, or that lust itself is sinful - need inspection. I don't think they're very sound, but only you can find out if they make sense for you in the long run. They sound a lot like guilt-inducing beliefs to me, like from a religious background?

Oliver

[CFTraveler]

Homosexuality is deviant behavior and should be avoided at all costs.
So, how does one "avoid" being homosexual? It's easy enough to become celibate (well, it's easy in theory), but the basic attraction is always going to be there. If someone told me to stop being attracted to men, I can tell you right now, it wouldn't work. I am now and have always been attracted to men. Since the body I currently inhabit happens to be female, that's socially acceptable, but if I'd been born into a male body, I'd be considered, by some people, to be some sort of deviant.

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. The physical body and the material world are illusion, and Spirit is not about physical gender.

This is basically what I am talking about... It doesn't really make sense to me either. That's my whole conflict, if it is wrong, how am I supposed to know that by going with 'my nature' it would keep me from progressing spiritually in this lifetime. Then does that mean that in my following lifetimes I will continue being gay possibly spiraling downward in the process, lowering my vibration, drifting farther and farther away from 'God', until I learn to transcend it?

I am open to both sides but if being gay is a symptom of the soul punishing itself, how can expressing true love in a way that comes naturally, not necessarily lustfully, be the one thing that might keep you from evolving? So basically until you learn this lesson you might have to keep repeating lifetimes until you become a celibate holy person.

I've been spending all day thinking about this but its starting to give me a headache. I'm really trying to examine both sides in the hopes that the truth will sink in with me. The problem is that I agree with both sides.
I have an idea where these ideas came from but if I talk about directly I will probably offend some.
Let's see how I can do it indirectly- Ok.....
Let's say that there is a religion (or three) that at some point needed slaves (monks) who work for them with no expectation, just for the joy of giving to the organization. They decide to declare sexuality as 'wrong' or 'sinful' or 'wasted energy' or 'of a lower vibration'. There is no inherent truth in these statements- it is simply a manipulation to make a certain type of person, one with a low sex drive for example- to look at service to the institution as a feasible way of life. Some (not many) decide to transcend their 'mundane' life and are steered away from sexual life so they can channel it as work. This is good for some people- that is, some people's natures tend to thrive in this setup.
But let's say, that most people don't, because the human need to be with each other (because that is how God made us) eventually wins out and a large percentage leave their life of service to fulfill other needs- the need for love, companionship, family, and sex. All normal parts of life.
But let's say that there is a smaller group (say, 10% of men, slightly larger percentage of women) that have sexual lives that are not sanctioned (that is, to have babies), and that the larger society does not value (always a mistake for many reasons, but that's another theme)- who better to emotionally traumatize and blackmail into service but the gay? And if you keep a tight control on this aspect of sexuality, then you have a steady supply of monks (i.e. slaves) that on the outside seem to be sexless, but actually aren't. You got yourself a win-win situation there.
But what happens if homosexuality begins to be seen as a natural part of- well, nature? What happens if sex begins to be seen as it is- as an aspect of life that is not only for reproduction, but for expression, even social control (certain animals use sexuality to control the pack, etc.)? What if homosexuals begin to be seen just as the same as the rest of us, deserving of just being who they are?
Well, there goes the steady supply of free labor-I mean 'dedicated service'. Mmmmm, what to do?

[Psychonaut1984]

Right now I am more or less just stating the most compelling arguments I have heard from the opposing side, because I have read a lot about this topic over the years. Most of the arguments are barely arguments/are just opinions, because they don't have a real explaination to why its bad, they just say its in the bible or its not natural.
Honestly the more I think about it the more my original instincts are starting to become a little louder. In my gut it feels like a non-issue, but due to the fact that there are so many people who are so passionate about making people feel bad, I decided to revisit this topic again. There was a time when I really made myself sick over this and really screwed myself up over it, I have moved past this phase. Everyonce in awhile I slip and question myself but I think I am starting to fully make peace with this and move on to more important issues.

I really hope this post helps some people who are struggling with this.

[star]

Psycho! One of my friends is gay - After I taught him Reiki he started advancing faster than me in the spiritual stuff. I go to HIM for advice now, and he used to go to me. Doesn't seem to be a handicap to me. :D You can take the rest I say with a grain of salt since my stories tend to be wild. i've interacted with the archangels, and they work with homosexual spirits all the time. I've even channeled one. It was one of the best channeling things that ever happened to me, the spirit was just so goddamned funny. he was making me laugh so hard I nearly fell out of the chair I was sitting on in the cafe I was channeling in! I got alot of wierd looks from that.

All the negetive rap homosexuals get - Its bullocks!

[Korpo]

Everyonce in awhile I slip and question myself but I think I am starting to fully make peace with this and move on to more important issues.

I have that, too. :)

Oliver

[Psychonaut1984]

Psycho! One of my friends is gay - After I taught him Reiki he started advancing faster than me in the spiritual stuff. I go to HIM for advice now, and he used to go to me. Doesn't seem to be a handicap to me. :D You can take the rest I say with a grain of salt since my stories tend to be wild. i've interacted with the archangels, and they work with homosexual spirits all the time. I've even channeled one. It was one of the best channeling things that ever happened to me, the spirit was just so goddamned funny. he was making me laugh so hard I nearly fell out of the chair I was sitting on in the cafe I was channeling in! I got alot of wierd looks from that.

All the negetive rap homosexuals get - Its bullocks!

Thank you for sharing. I got a kick out of that. :D

[Psychonaut1984]

I found this to be kind of ironic and interesting...
Last night something made me decide to finish reading this book 'Otherwhere' by Kurt Leland, I started it a month ago but never got around to finishing it. Anyway during Kurt Leland's travels the topic of homosexuality comes up about 3 times. According to his interpretation of what he witnessed in the Human Afterdeath Zone, it seemed that the guilt associated with being gay often was keeping the individual from ever realizing their purpose in life. While it is important not to identify too much with the primate instinct we are born with, to not acknowledge them and resist them is a complete waste of lifeforce. According to him it seemed far worse to never realize your souls intentions for you, than to try to fit a mold that you don't fit, and try to please others in a desperate attempt to compensate. I am going to site a passage from the book because I found this to be really eye opening.

The individual before you has just been brought from Immigration. Attuning your awareness to his energy field you'll percieve that he was born on the East Coast of North America to Catholic parents. During adolescence, the individual became aware of a strong attraction to men. This awareness coincided with his indoctrination into the Catholic belief system, which condemns homosexuality. He always wanted to be a good person, but when he realized that nothing could be done about his attraction to men - he would not grow out of it, and no attempt to cure himself would work - he more or less resigned himself to a life of celibacy.

...What he really wanted to be was an actor. He was aware that the theater was a hotbed for homosexuality, and thought he was saving his soul by avoiding it. Actually, the theater would have been his refuge. Eventually, he would have written moving plays about his struggle to accept his homosexuality while at the same time laying the foundation for a morally upright and spiritually fullfilling life. These plays of course, would have served as an inspiration for other gay men who had been born Catholic.

...He would find ways to make himself essential to the lives of everyone he knew, at no matter what the cost to himself. He was perpetually loaning money, doing favors, giving gifts, running errands-often responding to people's needs before anything was said. His weight problem was caused by sexual frusteration and his resentment of all the people who took advantage of him. Yet he never dropped his false smile or raised his voice in anger.

...Until his dying day, he hoped that he could buy his way into Heaven and the hearts of friends and family with the apparently selflessly serving of others. While that could perhaps be someone's life purpose, it wasn't his. From the soul's perspective, his personality was irremediably warped by the primate survival instinct, which manifested itself not in terms of his physical but rather his emotional and spiritual survival. None of the lessons the soul intended for him were learned (Leland 202-203).

When I was reading that chapter last night this particular story really hit home for me in a lot of ways. I feel really grateful that I got out of that cycle. For awhile I was in a similar situation where my personality began to become warped by my primate instincts of emotional and spiritual survival. It was probably one of the hardest things I ever had to overcome. I highly reccomend this book, there are a lot of good lessons to be learned in it.

[Timotheus]

:D

[CFTraveler]

That was beautiful, Tim.

[Beekeeper]

Psychonaut1984,

I looked for and couldn't find that passage. I went to bed convinced it didn't matter: you'd get your answer when the time was right.

Remember that religions say a lot of things. If you look at the history of slavery in America, the Churches justified the practice with the Bible. They even used religion (with omissions) to keep the black people in line. When women wanted suffrage in England, the churches opposed them and when they went on a rampage they often retaliated by attacking churches. Religions have sanctioned murders in "Holy Wars". They've stolen from people in these wars and missions were at the forefront of imperialism where native peoples were dispossessed, dehumanised and murdered. Religions murdered innocent women and men as witches. Religions have so much money and treasure that they could elevate the poverty and suffering of millions right now if they wanted to. Instead, they tell people that contraception is wrong.

If these things are not signs we need to think for ourselves, then I don't not what is.

[iadnon]

I'm afraid I'm gay, haha, so I suppose I should say something.

Since I was a child I've always had a tendency towards spiritually. I knew there had to be something more beyond the physical, and the empty words of the local Christian priests of my town. So I started off a personal voyage when I was 10.

Nowadays, I've got to the following point:
1.I've had several astral projections and lucid dreams.
2.I've quite excelled at NEW, and I can work with my chakras and energy system in a powerful way. I've even developed a short term precognitive capability.
3.I'm very proficient at meditating. I chose Ed Steinbrecher's Inner guide meditation, which combines astrology, tarot and psychology. What I've experienced in that field is so awesome that I prefer to keep it to myself.
4.Now I trust life at all, whatever it happens.

That said, and as long as I've been practicing taoism for some years, I can conclude why the say what they say: taoism is based in the duality of the male and female. To practice taoist yoga, for example, you have to meet a woman who will function as the receiver of the energy, and you'll do the same as the emitter.

In spite of that, there's a taoist writer who has explicitly said that there's no problem about being gay to participate in such exercises and life-style. And, indeed, I can assure that. I've been practicing the micro cosmic orbit and the sexual sublimation for some years with much success.

Nowadays, I'm trying to fusion my female energy, and energy I've started to discover in the last years. In fact, that's the key in the enlightment process, to merge your male and female energies, a thing that happens when the ajna chakra is fully activated.

Steinbrecher said in his book (a must, in my opinion) that gay people have a "different" energetic system which helps them to gain access to a different levels to those of the het people. That's why wizards and tribe gurus have always been gays, as he states. It's an opinion, but it's interesting to hear about it (refreshing, in fact).

I don't know where I'll end up, but I'm sure I'll attain many spiritual goals in this lifetime.

[Mystikal]

i imagine the more correct interpretation that homosexuality is a spiritual handicap merely points to the increased struggle of being either male or female while having the opposite sense of identity within.

Homosexuality and transsexuality aren't the same thing - being gay doesn't mean that you identify as the opposite sex. If they were the same, people like me (an MtF transsexual lesbian) wouldn't exist.

[Timotheus]

:D

[Aunt Clair]

I have been reading a lot of things all over the internet, especially in some forums related to Taoism saying that Homosexuality is a 'spiritual handicap.' One person went as far as saying that homosexuals should not practice anything remotely involving when it comes to spiritual endeavors because it would be potentially dangerous to that person's psyche, being that all homosexuals are supposedly born off balance. I can't quote these sources off the top of my head.

Anyway despite how discouraging some of these opinions are, it made me question what exactly it means to be gay from a spiritual perspective. I know from my personal experience, I know that its not as simple as just sexual preference, there is a lot more to being gay then just liking the same sex. I feel as though being gay has in many ways (possibly indirectly) driven me to this very path that I am on right now; in pursuit of finding the truth, and peace in within myself and the world around me. I know this isn't necessarily the case for everyone, but in my case I feel like it really forced me to really examine who I am, and move past a lot of the superficial bs that plagues most people today.

I have read somewhere else that in some cultures they consider homosexuality to be a good thing and on the contrary to that other opinion I mentioned, means to be more balanced of feminine and masculine energies. I don't know exactly what all of this means, if it has any relevence, or if there is any truth behind it.

Part of me wants to fluff off that being a homosexual does not have any impact on my spiritual life, but In my opinion I feel like being gay has maybe indirectly opened my mind to a lot of things. I don't know if this has to do with just constantly feeling like an outsider and having to find my own way in life or if part of my sexuality has a role in my spirituality. I am not sure whether I agree if it is a 'spiritual handicap' and even if it is now that I am heavily involved in several spiritual practices, like astral projection and now I am thinking of getting involved in Hermetic mysticism, I don't think in my heart I could possibly give this up now.

Please share your thoughts on this issue.

I am confident that sexual persuasion has nothing whatsoever to do with magickal prowess . I find that gender and sexual identity are not an issue at all . I have had gay magical peers in circle and could not honestly tell you that they were any different than a straight peer . I feel this sort of paranoid rubbish is perpetuated by small minds that do not comprehend love or magick at all .

[Beekeeper]

Here's an interesting person who, if he's everything his website says, is highly advanced in healing and also homosexual http://www.thereconnection.com/drericpearl/biography.html I'm sure there are many others.

[Mishell]

Here's an interesting person who, if he's everything his website says, is highly advanced in healing and also homosexual http://www.thereconnection.com/drericpearl/biography.html I'm sure there are many others.

I would love to go to one of his seminars. (hint, hint :mrgreen: )

[Korpo]

(hint, hint :mrgreen: )

:?:

Oliver

[Alaskans]

Sorry I didnt read all the posts, Im just going to throw in my thoughts. Our true state is both male and female and I think gays have a bit of an advantage in that area because they can more easily embrace the male or female. Most promiscuous straight guys seem to have excesive male and are alergic to my faery paintings :). The problem I see is lust. it is low on the universe spectrum, that is, such thoughts wont grant life energy (but thats hardly a gay exclusive problem). If you love your partner for reasons other than thier physical body, or the sex, then that is love, and love can create life and light. Find someone you really love.
Personally, I like to be free of any vague thought of sex, it frees me to find innocent and powerfull love, thats where I feel most beautifull, but chastity of mind/intention is not for everyone, since we have these bodies it can be difficult to sustain.



btw.. its the desire/intent and thoughts of sex thats the killer, the actual act is not so bad.

[Timotheus]

:D

[Alaskans]

thats a great way of putting it
Im not saying you should feel guilty about having sex. It doesnt matter wether or not you do it. Im just saying that I think everything has a location in the universe, and people focus too much of thier mind on sex considering its just an earth level thing. to me we get what we want, and go where we love. many people are very fond of earth. earth is our mother, we respect her, but should we really live with our mother?

[CFTraveler]

thats a great way of putting it
Im not saying you should feel guilty about having sex. It doesnt matter wether or not you do it. Im just saying that I think everything has a location in the universe, and people focus too much of thier mind on sex considering its just an earth level thing. to me we get what we want, and go where we love. many people are very fond of earth. earth is our mother, we respect her, but should we really live with our mother? I believe we have such a problem with sex because we think about it too much. And the reason we think about it too much is that we try to suppress it, we have 'assigned' sex too much negativity and denied it's benefits, to the extent of negating it's negative effects. In other words, by demonizing it we've made it too important.
As to 'living with your mother'- that's an example of what I'm talking about. When you're a child you should live with your mother, when you're older you should learn from her, and when you're old enough to let her go (or to leave) you should not deny her importance for the rest of your life.
Lust has it's place too- it's demonization is what's made it a negative thing. It seems to me that if you get down to the nitty gritty, objectivization is the problem, and this applies to everything. IMO.

[Korpo]

As to 'living with your mother'- that's an example of what I'm talking about. When you're a child you should live with your mother, when you're older you should learn from her, and when you're old enough to let her go (or to leave) you should not deny her importance for the rest of your life.

Spoken like a true mother. ;)

Oliver

[Alaskans]

You guys are so cute :D



Lust has it's place too- it's demonization is what's made it a negative thing. It seems to me that if you get down to the nitty gritty, objectivization is the problem, and this applies to everything. IMO.

I always say everything is relative. When people tell me "Brrr its ugly nasty out, and 20 below."I tell them "I think its beautifull and Its blazing hot for an eskimo." To the untrained ear it sounds like I am changing my tone, but Im not, Im saying the act is nothing, the thought is everything. Like you said, supressing our sexual urge causes us to obsess about it, and eventually people get into real bad problems like many catholic priests (celebacy never should be required). 'Tear off your rags and trample them under your feet like children'. If we dont value or care about it then we are truely free from it.
Everything is relative but I still say there is also a seperation, light/dark, truth/lies, life/death, omniesscence/ego and thats not relative. Selfish hate cant create life, and belevolent love cant create death. Im just illistrating that I think some thought/intents arent good for you. Stealing and killing out of hate and selfishness will put you in a thought realm without life energy, but killing and stealing for love and mercy wont.

[CFTraveler]

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make- that perhaps because of the way we tend to put everything in a 'order of value' and objectify, we tend to say things like sex is love or sex is important or sex is evil- when it's neither- because like everything that depends on the manifest world has no inherent reality. When I hear 'love is good' and 'lust is bad' this brings me to the idea that we can do good things, wonderful things, or terrible things, in the name of whatever we have put up there in the top tier- but inherently it's not good, bad, or anything at all- it just is, and the rest is an interesting mirror.

[Psychonaut1984]

I think celibacy is only good for people who are fully comfortable with their sexual urges, straight or gay, and then make that decision from a place of strength rather than fear or guilt. I feel like the reason why there is so many incidents in the church is that these people might retreat to the church as a means of seeking forgiveness and escaping their sexual problems. They never actually deal with their problem so later on it comes back to bite them because the problem is still there, meanwhile it festers to the point that they loose control. I can only imagine what thats like to go on for years and years like that, hoping for salvation with a "solution" that will only cause more suffering. Shame on the church.

[Mishell]

I think celibacy is only good for people who are fully comfortable with their sexual urges,.

I think celebacy is only good for people with no sexual urges.


Shame on the church.

I'll second that.

[ButterflyWoman]

I think celebacy is only good for people with no sexual urges.
I disagree with that. I'm a very sexual person, but I've been celibate for reasonably long periods of time and I was comfortable with it. I just learned how to direct the sexuality into other outlets (mostly creative).

Also, my husband was celibate and very comfortable with it for some time before we hooked up. He's got no problems in the sexual urges department, either. ;)

I DO believe that in order to be celibate and be really comfortable with it, you have to have a certain level of sexual maturity, or at least be very much at ease with your sexuality, so that you don't feel you MUST express it or unleash it or act on it. You can just "let it be" and go on about other things. It definitely can and does work for some people.

[Mishell]

I understand what you are saying, however I do not consider periods of celebacy to be true celebacy. I think true celebacy is a lifelong decision or commitment.

Everone (I'm sure) has had dry spells.

One could argue that if a person was really comfortable with being celibate, they wouldn't change their mind and start having sex again.

[ButterflyWoman]

I understand what you are saying, however I do not consider periods of celebacy to be true celebacy. I think true celebacy is a lifelong decision or commitment.
Well, I see your point. But if I were to become a vegan for, say, ten years, and then go back to eating some animal products, would that mean I wasn't "really" a vegan for that time?

Same kind of thing. ;)

I'm not talking about periods of time where you're just not having sex. (I've done that, too; I consider that a "dry spell" ;)).

By the same token, if you make a commitment of monogamy with someone and you later break up and you start a sexual relationship with someone new, were you not "really" monogamous?

I just don't see lifestyle choices as an all or nothing, lifetime or it doesn't count kind of thing. To me it's like your diet. You can choose to change it, you can do it for a while and then change your mind, you can make a permanent life choice to change your diet, you can cheat on your chosen diet... Same thing. (And yes, I often equate food with sex ;))


One could argue that if a person was really comfortable with being celibate, they wouldn't change their mind and start having sex again.
Certainly. But a lot depends on the person. It is possible to move between these states of sexual lifestyle. I was absolutely comfortable being celibate. I am comfortable being monogamous. Heck, I was quite comfortable being polyamourous, which I did for a while. Maybe I'm just strangely composed, I don't know...

Most people have a sort of "natural rhythm" that feels most normal to them, I recognise this. But you can also choose what you want to do or not do with your sex life. I don't think celibacy is for everyone (nor do I think that enforced celibacy is a great plan in most cases), nor do I think that monogamy is for everyone. I think the biggest thing is to be comfortable with your own sexuality and your own sex life, no matter what you choose to do with it.

[Korpo]

Psychonaut1984,

I can only recommend reading the book "The Nature of the Psyche" by Jane Roberts. It's a channeled Seth book.

There is a chapter I am currently reading, and it's about the nature of our cooperation as a race, our basic bisexual nature, how sexuality is stereotyped and how many different expressions sexuality and love have. I found it to be quite an education.

It also shed light on phenomena in my life - how it can feel for me like falling in love when a human bond deepens with someone else, regardless of gender or the kind of relationship I have with this person. This aspect of intimacy ties into what is told in the book, which in general is all about freeing ourselves from limiting beliefs and getting access to a bigger awareness, the many facettes of our psyches, the many lives we live at any time.

I'm sure you would find it encouraging, too. :D

Take care,
Oliver

[Psychonaut1984]

Psychonaut1984,

I can only recommend reading the book "The Nature of the Psyche" by Jane Roberts. It's a channeled Seth book.

There is a chapter I am currently reading, and it's about the nature of our cooperation as a race, our basic bisexual nature, how sexuality is stereotyped and how many different expressions sexuality and love have. I found it to be quite an education.

It also shed light on phenomena in my life - how it can feel for me like falling in love when a human bond deepens with someone else, regardless of gender or the kind of relationship I have with this person. This aspect of intimacy ties into what is told in the book, which in general is all about freeing ourselves from limiting beliefs and getting access to a bigger awareness, the many facettes of our psyches, the many lives we live at any time.

I'm sure you would find it encouraging, too. :D

Take care,
Oliver
Thanks Oliver, I will check that out when I get a chance. You seem to have good taste in books.

[Korpo]

You seem to have good taste in books.

It happens often that I read something just when someone else could use it, too. Or the other way round. If that is not all coincidence, think about the cooperation "in the background" to facilitate this! :D

Oliver

[Alaskans]

This is one of those threads that really matters for everyone effected, so high beings are involved in helping us with the discussion. I know it has helped me.

[Psychonaut1984]

You seem to have good taste in books.

It happens often that I read something just when someone else could use it, too. Or the other way round. If that is not all coincidence, think about the cooperation "in the background" to facilitate this! :D

Oliver

I almost couldn't believe how much that section of 'Otherwhere' nailed it so perfectly, at the perfect time. I am glad that this thread has been helpful to people, thats what it is here for.

After reading that book it made me want to be commissioned by the "cooperation" or higher ups, to do something meaningful and important using my strengths, like that poet he was talking about. That would be the greatest honor. I am an artist. Where do I sign up?

[Korpo]

Where do I sign up?

You already did. You are here, right? ;)

Oliver

[MichaelL]

Our spirt is neither male nor female, so from that perspective the issue of homosexuality is a non-issue. We have lived thousands of lives in a human body to get to this point, some male some female, so from that perspective we have all had sex with someone of the same gender at sometime anyway. It is the attachment to sex that is what is bad, any kind of sex.

[Timotheus]

:D

[star]

What evolutionary purpose does a poodle have? Sometimes it helps just to go with it, hell even just laugh at it. :D

[MichaelL]

Our spirt is neither male nor female, so from that perspective the issue of homosexuality is a non-issue. We have lived thousands of lives in a human body to get to this point, some male some female, so from that perspective we have all had sex with someone of the same gender at sometime anyway. It is the attachment to sex that is what is bad, any kind of sex.

i totally disagree with ya. wish i had time to break it down, but i don't. if attachment to sex is bad in this world or in terms of spirit then i am screwed...literally.

perhaps your use of 'sex' is in stead of gender. they two are not the same creature. one is apparent as gender, the other is borne of one's unique attractions. of course I had presented that earlier on in this same thread to no avail.
tim

Attachment to anything is bad in that that is what keeps us reincarnating. I am referring to the type of people that only care about going out and getting laid and only focusing on the physical sensation. God gave us the sex urge, so I am by no means advocating celibacy. But even celibates, if they still have desire for sex, are not doing themselves any favors. It is better to have lots of sex yet remain detached than no sex but still desire it. If that makes sense.

[Psychonaut1984]

What evolutionary purpose does a poodle have? Sometimes it helps just to go with it, hell even just laugh at it. :D
Heh I got a good laugh from this. Thank you. :D

[CFTraveler]

What evolutionary purpose does a poodle have? Sometimes it helps just to go with it, hell even just laugh at it. :D You mean a toy poodle, don't you? Because standard poodles were bred to jump over puddles (no joke) hence the original name, pudlein.
However, I'm pretty sure that toy poodles were bred to keep laps warm in winter.
So they didn't evolve, they were bred.
But maybe this applies to chiuahuas.

Anyway, if you look behind the apparent message, you'll see I'm 'sort of' making a point that actually may have something to do with the original theme- you just got to dig.

[Keeper]

Basically I agreed with most of those posts about homosexual, and sadly that our world celebrate and welcome heterosexual (newlywed, baby shower, etc) while homosexual stuck in the corner and something for among family members to gossip around. That's people :roll:

That makes me wonder what about people who attracts to children such as pedophile, molester, even bestiality (having sexual with animals), and many unacceptable sexual behaviors;necrophilia, sadism and masochism, etc. Its evident not acceptable sexual behaviors. In Plato's time, its acceptable for an older man and younger boy having intimate relationship...

My perspective, spiritual has laws such as karma, reap what it sows, and so on. That would sufficient to hangs balance. Homosexuality could be hurtful, such as lust, for money, etc. Same with heterosexual. Im still not sure about pedophile, bestiality, BDSM, etc...

~Keeper

[Beekeeper]

Keeper, I think the idea of consent comes into it and, of course, being old enough to understand what you're consenting to so there's no violation.

[Tempestinateapot]

To get back to the original thoughts of this thread, everyone seems to think it's ok to be gay. That you are born with the urges, just like a heterosexual is born with the opposite urges. Just to throw in a monkey wrench, what about someone who is born with the urge to have sex with children? Is that inherently wrong? What makes one inherent urge right and one wrong? If it's inherent, then it would seem to be unchangeable, and out of that person's control. Which is what the research shows...pedophiles do not change. They cannot stop being attracted to children.

I don't think there is ultimately a core truth about right and wrong. I think they are values that we've decided on as a culture, but have no substance when it comes down to it. Everything is merely a perspective. The pedophile only thinks he is wrong when society puts pressure on him and tells him he's wrong. If left to his own, he believes it's normal and natural, because that is what his drive tells him. He is driven, just as he is driven to eat. The argument can be made that a child is innocent, and needs to be protected. For society to function without chaos, there must be rules. That doesn't mean the rules have some ultimate truth to them. What if the molested child chose, before incarnation, to be put in that position? What if that child (soul) wanted that experience, and laid down plans ahead of time to acheive it? In that case, would one think that it was ultimately wrong?

I think its possible that a person chooses ahead of time (before incarnation) to be gay, or even to be a pedophile. For some reason, that soul wants to ad that experience to their other experiences. I don't believe in karma. I think it's just another way of expressing a god who wants to punish his people for being "bad". You can call it "balance", you can call it anything you want...it's still a form of retribution by a being greater than yourself. You can choose to believe in karma, and it will exist for you. You will keep reincarnating until you no longer feel you need to be chained by it. In the same sense, you can choose to continue to incarnate as either homosexual or heterosexual, until you choose something different. I seriously doubt that souls are ultimately one sex or the other. Perhaps they are until they choose to no longer be. These are choices, not ultimate truths.

[Timotheus]

:D

[CFTraveler]

I agree. Most pedophiles are straight.

-Patty, from a metaphysical point of view (depending on your point of view) nothing matters no matter what, so there's no point in bringing up this subject, since it can be lumped with everything else that is damaging to others in timespace- (ethnic cleansing, murder, politics, etc.).
However, if we're going to take technicalities into consideration, while homosexuality can be inborn, pedophilia can't. Probably all pedophiles are made, not born. They are either victims of pedophilia early on in life, or have been coerced into participating in it in their formative years.
So I don't think this applies either way.

[Tempestinateapot]

perhaps worse than pedophilia is one who suggestively whispers in the winds of time that homosexuals are relative in nature to pedophilia. judgement of this nature reveals profound ignorance You missed my point entirely, and judged me. We are all relative in nature to both. Neither is a "spiritual handicap". What I am saying is that there is no such thing as a spiritual handicap. If you believe in judgement, which I don't, then you see this view as a terrible thing. To put it in layman's terms, I see no difference between myself (a heterosexual), a homosexual, a murderer, or a pedophile. We are all aspects of the One Source, none being better than any other. How is that not relevant to this thread? What can be more open, caring, and accepting than someone who sees the Source in each and every person, regardless of who they may appear to be? If you see judgement in this, that is your personal bias, not mine.

i think someone mentioned earlier in the thread that everyone had probably incarnated at one time or other as a homosexual. I couldn't agree more. But, if someone believes that, it's not a major leap to think that we also have incarnated as murderers, peodophiles, saints, and kind people. If one can only open themselves to believing they have only incarnated as "good" people, then one has put on blinders to the greater possibility that everyone is One with the Source.

[Tempestinateapot]

CF said,
They are either victims of pedophilia early on in life, or have been coerced into participating in it in their formative years.This hasn't been proven. While it is true that there are those who do become pedophiles because of being a victim, there are many who have been victimized, yet don't become perpetrators. There are also cases of people who are predators, and have never been a victim themselves. This is why I think it is a choice before incarnation. I was a victim, myself, but never went on to become a victimizer. It never even crossed my mind. I now have no ill will toward my predator, and see now how, though I was an innocent, that my perpetrator is born of the same Source as I am, no better or worse. The only judgement lies in the eyes of those who can't see that there is no separation between us.

[CFTraveler]

I agree with you that I believe it's a choice before incarnation, for whatever reason.
My reason wasn't metaphysical, was completely based on social statistics. When I said most pedophiles are victims, I didn't mean to say that all pedophiles grow up to be pedophiles, some grow up to be children's advocates and 'social heroes', but they wouldn't be if they hadn't been victims themselves.
What I said is that almost all caught pedophiles have it in their backgrounds as victims- that it's not a 'biological drive', as homosexuality most probably is.
Remember that the metaphysical-reincarnational viewpoint isn't causal, but the social/biological viewpoint is.

Your original post read (to me) as if both viewpoints should be taken for each other, and I didn't want anyone to think we are saying it's ok to be a pedophile, even if at the soul level we're all one. The term 'it's ok, etc.' is a judgement, and belongs at the causal level.
Do you see what I mean?

[Timotheus]

:D

[star]

Jed's method, bleh.

[Tempestinateapot]

thus, my counter point, that homosexuality is not a perversion of nature, and thereby to throw it into comparison with pedophilia is setting a perversion of human nature into a possible deeply penetrating mishap.Again, you have missed my point. I don't think either are a "perversion", and that both are a choice before incarnation. That is the only thing they have in common. If one is going to only live and think by the standards of men and society, then why bother with spirituality and it's farther reaching scope of standards? Once you get into spirituality, the two are so intertwined that you can't separate them and hold up only one (the standards of men) and say this is how it should be.

I would like to quote someone,
I am not bound to please thee with my answers. Couldn't agree more. And, Timo said:
however, being awakened is like learning to dance without stepping on other's toesCouldn't agree less.

[Timotheus]

:D

[Jaco]

I would argue that homosexuality is not a normal state for a human being, since a norm should be stretchable to entire population. If the entire population was gay we would quickly die out, or struggle to produce new generations. As for it to be a spiritual handicap, don't know.

[CFTraveler]

I would argue that homosexuality is not a normal state for a human being, since a norm should be stretchable to entire population. If the entire population was gay we would quickly die out, or struggle to produce new generations. As for it to be a spiritual handicap, don't know.
Do you know what 'normal' means? Normal means that it happens in populations in the same ratio statistically speaking, it does not mean that everyone is the same. That is not 'normal'- there are no living human populations that are all straight or gay. It doesn't exist in nature.
Mathematically, the word 'average' is 75% of any total, and we tend to think as a population being 75% this or that meaning 'normal'. This is because the 'average' is reproducible in a population depending on it's determinants.
In the human population, it is the norm (meaning it always happens, regardless of environmental factors) there is around a 10% incidence of homosexuality in males. This obviously has nothing to do with reproduction, since the 10% happens regardless of whether the parents are straight, gay, or somewhere in between.
I believe that (and it has become more public knowledge) in the female population the percentage for non-strictly heterosexual relationships are higher than the above mentioned for males, making this more of a 'norm' than you would expect it to be.
So do you consider 'normal' what everyone does at a 100% ratio (which would mean that every single person is one way only) which doesn't exist,
Or do you realize that a population of males that are 10% homosexual is the norm- that is, that all populations have a 10% percent of homosexual component?

[Tempestinateapot]

Jaco wrote:
If the entire population was gay we would quickly die outThat's not only obvious, it's a rather ridiculous statement, since it's never going to happen. I would like to point out that homosexuality is also forund in the animal kingdom (animal, meaning not human). Which would make it highly likely that God intended it so in the human poplulation as well, or He wouldn't have bothered creating it in the animal kingdom. I don't think anyone would argue that animals have a choice in the matter, as in thinking, "hmmm, I think I'll try an alternate lifestyle". **having visions of a lion checking out a lion gay bar** :D

So, as to it being a "gift", I don't think so, any more than having green eyes would be a gift. It's just the way someone was born. Spiritual handicap? I'm not even sure what that means. The greatest handicap to spirituality is having a closed mind. I would tend to agree with one of the posts mentioning something along the lines that it could be a help. Any alternate lifestyle, which causes one to be different from the so called "norm" can jump start someone into wondering about why they are here, why they are like they are, etc., which could lead to spiritual seeking.

[ButterflyWoman]

being awakened is like learning to dance without stepping on other's toes.
Well, I don't think awakening has anything to do with that, but I definitely know firsthand that if you have a message and you don't deliver it in the right way, it will not reach its intended target.

I learned this one the hard way some years ago. You can be speaking a message of absolute truth directly from Source, but if you frame it in such a way that the listener cannot or will not accept it, well, you may as well be pissing in the wind. It's like wrapping up a delicious piece of chocolate in a ball of spikes. Hardly anyone will get past the spikes, or is even likely to believe that there's any reason to do so.

I'm glad I learned this lesson a long time ago, before I really started to consciously awaken, because I was able to teach myself a good deal about tact and so on. Which is not to say that I always exercise those skills, but I'm glad I learned them when I did. If I hadn't, I would have started to awaken, figured out that it's all an illusion, anyway, and never learned it at all, and then I don't know how effective I'd be at communicating anything other than "pass the pepper" or "when is your train leaving". ;)

Just my personal experience with communication. Your mileage may vary.

[Timotheus]

:D

[CFTraveler]

Tim said:

"a moron is by definition one whom would cling tightly to an opinion even when proof reveals its absurdity.

i may never attain perfection, and see no reason to reach for it. but, by god, i can choose not to be a moron."- Claimed for posterity

And.... Mmmmm..... chocolate. Delicious chocolate cake.

[star]

None of the gay angels i've met seemed to be having any issues. It was just strange to see that people still held to their sexual orientation after death.
So many people seem to indicate otherwise.

Keeping an open mind is all I can do sometimes..

[CFTraveler]

I have found (and so has everyone else, I expect) that the only drive that seems to go with us when we project is the sex drive. I wonder if this has something to do with it? I would guess that sex isn't just for reproduction, therefore the need to exchange energetic connection is there in the 'disembodied (or other-bodied) state' also. Hmmm, I think I just discovered something that was there all the time- that sex is not 'just for reproduction'- that unlike eating, which is a totally bodily need, sexual intercourse (and by this I mean the exchange of energy, not bodily fluids) isn't only connected to the physical body.
But then again, I could be wrong.

[ButterflyWoman]

sexual intercourse (and by this I mean the exchange of energy, not bodily fluids) isn't only connected to the physical body.
I've believed that for many years.

[wkyh7]

Im just tossing it out there... MANY early philisophical developments were made by bisexual or homosexual people from the early ages.

[Alaskans]

Hmmm, I think I just discovered something that was there all the time- that sex is not 'just for reproduction'- that unlike eating, which is a totally bodily need, sexual intercourse (and by this I mean the exchange of energy, not bodily fluids) isn't only connected to the physical body.
But then again, I could be wrong.
Theres no doubt about it.

The problem is when it IS only about the physical aspect. There are two kinds of gay. One is about pure physical sexual desire. The other is all about energy. The physical one is the one that is condemned in the bible, Babylon was destroyed in order to stop physical desire. Physical molecules decay, it was an act of compassion.

Everything is about energy, it drives everything we do. When someone has a lot of energy of the opposite sex in them, then they desire the same sex in order to balance thier energy. In actuality, we are all sexless.

God, or the Universe, is a scientist, everything is done logically, he only gives us what we desire, nobody is condemned.
blessings

[iadnon]

The problem is when it IS only about the physical aspect. There are two kinds of gay. One is about pure physical sexual desire. The other is all about energy. The physical one is the one that is condemned in the bible, Babylon was destroyed in order to stop physical desire. Physical molecules decay, it was an act of compassion.


Here we go again, classifying the unclassifiable. Two kind of gays? How many kinds are between the homos?

This is a matter of role playing. You can feel yourself like a sucubus in some moments and ♥♥♥♥ like a beast for the mere pleasure of sex, and in other moments you can practice taoist yoga and transmute your sexual energy into ojas. Sometimes we forget we are spiritual beings embedded in animal shells, and that we have to merge those opposite aspects in the best possible way.

The Bible? Well, we should understand, first, what its codification is in order to understand it. Talking about imaginary tales that never happened, and that represent other things beyond the physical realm can be effortless.

[Alaskans]

I think my idea of everyone being sexless and our sexuality being the result of balancing of our energy.. is less classification than the prejudice passed down through society against 'homos'. Through the course of perhaps everyones spiritual evolution our spiritual bodies alternate repeatedly between male and female. It's normal to love or even desire people of the oposite sex at times. Both sexes have many traits that strengthen the others traits. Supressing our male or female side just because of social pressure is perhaps the most oppressive spiritual handicap from society. I'm not sure everyone knows that. If you feel like dancing through the tulips like a girly guy then go for it. Be yourself, decide for yourself.