which is harder to come by--kundalini activation or OBE?

[amazingjourney]

Hi,

The other thread is very interesting to me regarding kundalini,mainly because the fact is that we don't need kundalini activation in order to have OBE. I thought they at least go hand in hand, or maybe OBE is a harder experience to come by, according to my own experiences, or maybe I just didn't realize I have had more OBE than I knew.

Two three years ago I went through a personal crisis and was forced to sit and meditate by a power or a void from within. From there, I experienced very intense change physically and emotionally. During the hour long meditation every night or morning, I went through different things which I have never known those would be what meditation would be like. Weeping, body shaking or swaying by itself, stabbing pain in parts of the body, energy flow dancing in front of my closed eyes, breathing slowing down to almost as if I don't need it, legs not getting numb, everything coming to a still in me. My eyelids would not move a bit (usually when we close our eyes, our eyelids would still be jumpy) like something is pulled it shut so tightly. It feels like I finally found my center and was clicked with myself. It was filled with this immensee stillness, and then came the realization of self love and God's love. I realized how badly I have treated myself, and that how could I do these bad things to myself which is a disgrace to God's will.

During that period of two years, I had symptoms of kundalini activation, liquid flowing kind of sensation in my spine and my scalp, feeling like to hold up my hands with the gestures that Buddha do in the temples, third eye and crown were full of pressure all day long, joy and awe were with me all day long, everything is so full of joy and glory. When I wrote my journal, I was like " I must be God. This must be how God feels. There is no way anything else can top this." My thought was also very clearly and quick. Sometimes many thoughts and feelings were just beyond words. I wrote in my journal " You can't understand it. You can only experience it."

I also had a lot of dreams where someone is always there to answer my questions. There were alot of recurrent dreams, with symbolic meanings. I would glide through the sky and the valley with will. The places were heavenly and the sky were after rain beautiful and refresh. Every night was a healing journey.

The OBEs I had were accompanied with strong current flowed though my body. It was so strong that I had to hold on to my bed in order not to be carried away. But the next morning, my body would feel so soft, and so soothing like I have never felt, for three four days. ( Does anyone experience this type of soothing comfort? It was like I was reborn!!) At that time, I was very alone since there was no one for me to talk to about this. When I try to find answers from the internet, all I know to type in is meditation, but didn't found any answers. I didn't even know about the term 'OBE." I was reading in the bookstore and found William Bhulman's book and then I knew that;s what happened to me.

So I thought it is interesting that I had kundalini happened to me while having OBE, which I thought is harder to come by.

[Korpo]

Hello, amazingjourney.

This sounds like your meditation first cleared out blockages in your lower aspects and then led to what Buddhist meditators would probably call rapture. As far as I can tell rapture is rather euphoric, and over time resolves to bliss, which is more subtle. I think you know best since you had these experiences.

When having powerful spiritual awakenings or when you have resolved a good deal of the inner trauma it is a lot easier to have OBEs, that's for sure. Like Robert said about Kundalini - do the self-development work, which you did.

A good deal of people however have an easier time to learn some methods to OBE and have some OBEs and lucid dreams way before getting to this stage. Robert says learning to OBE is way easier than full Kundalini raising, but then again - aren't we all different? I think he also meant with conscious effort you can induce OBEs early on, while yours are more spontaneous triggered by your purified nature, which requires the same work Kundalini does. Or so I'd believe.

Oliver

[amazingjourney]

Thank you Oliver:

I found that you really are very knowledgable in all these topics! I appreciate all your very informative and insighful responses!

Regarding the long journey of awakening, it is certainly not easy. The bliss and awe gradually fade away amist the lack of directions (couldn't fine anyone to provide advices or mentoring) and the flow of busy life, until this May when Oprah's a new earth webcast got me excited about the global awakening. So I went on a couple of forums to share my experiences and also learn more techniques to develop further.

From what I heard about other people's experiences, kundalini is a long journey and can be difficult. Some people went through turmoils in the duration of more than ten years. In my case, this time around, I have been processing my own emotional layers ever since I worked on chakras. It is like opening a can of worms. I didn't experience these stubborn issues last time. Many old issues would surface at a fast pace and I have to face them and deal with them one by one. That's why in another thread I was asking about weeping during chakra work, because that's exactly what I have been through. At times, it is exhausting and even sicking. I can also feel that I am calming down and getting more grounded with time.

I have found that the biggest blessing would be to be grounded in the now. Although it sounds too simple, it carrys the most powerful energy outlet and from there I realize I am no different from how God feels. Our body needs to believe it and be in sync with the belief to really feel it.

[Korpo]

Sounds to me like you got your own guidance pretty much nailed down very well. :D

Cross-reading in Taoist, Buddhist and Hinduist meditation and energy work teachings can help avoid some pitfalls. This might help identify some of your experiences.

How long the turmoils will be might to a very strong depend on your personality structure, on how easy you find it to go with the experience, but also your beliefs, assumptions and expectations. How much old stuff you have to go through - your personal history and its traumas and hardships - and how quick you want to process it.

If you find experiences overwhelming or too fast-paced for yourself to cope with the matters of regular life, ask for less - by speaking it out loud, writing it down, affirming it in your mind before sitting down. Put it in a picture in your mind's eye - Bruce Moen visualised it as speedmeter and a train to communicate to the Universe "how fast" he is "willing to go", and the Universe responded to this. This might help to bring your practice back into a comfortable, sustainable pace if you feel strained.

Same with beliefs, intent and ambitions - if you implicitly expect a lot from yourself, or have ideas inside yourself that fast progress or attaining a certain level as soon as possible, then this also influences your journey. Intent influences a lot when working with practices that ultimately are an exercise of our mental capabilities.

Minding the breath and sticking to it, just including it into your every observation, bring you more into the present. The breath is - when following its own rhythm - is a continuous anchor.

Take good care,
Oliver

[amazingjourney]

My question is why OBE, especially frequently? In another thread, Robert mentioned that it's a good way to pursue conscious OBE as a start. I was just wondering about the purpose of OBE. I know it is to expand our view and consciousness. If we have a few OBEs and get to visit a few other dimentions, is it a good thing to constantly go out? I have no idea about the answer to this question. I was just throwing this out there.

It is like traveling and visit other countries as a tourist. I used to love to travel everywhere. But then I realized that while I was traveling, I am not here anymore. I look at the traveling show and think to myself, what about his life at home and daily life. When he is constantly out there, where is the contentment of staying where we are and find joy and meaning in the here and now.

In my spiritual journey, I have found that the most amazing state is where I am at, my small apartment, where I have all the things that I need, and I don't really need much. I don't need wonder to cheer me up, and I don't need to get happy somewhere else.

On the other hand, OBE can be energy consuming. When we get to project out of our body and have a good experience, we are excited, but when our attempt fails, it's a bit disappointing.

I think I understand how amazing it is to be in the higher dimentions to be immersed in the loving energy and God's energy. But what if we can find that right here right now? I have been in that Godly state right here. OBEs is amazing but maybe it is not urgent since I will have plenty of opportunities when I passed on?

I was just wondering why I am trying to OBE more. Is it because everyone seems to be looking for it?

[CFTraveler]

My question is why OBE, especially frequently? Interesting question, allow me to take a stab at it.


In another thread, Robert mentioned that it's a good way to pursue conscious OBE as a start. I was just wondering about the purpose of OBE. I know it is to expand our view and consciousness. If we have a few OBEs and get to visit a few other dimentions, is it a good thing to constantly go out? I have no idea about the answer to this question. I was just throwing this out there. I believe it is more than just 'expand our view'- it's more like to experience more of what is possible, and to change or remove a lot of our preconceived notions of what is and isn't. I know your words covered what I just said, I just don't know if it coveyed it. I don't think it is really about 'going out'- it's about going out, within, and any other state of inbetween, of potentiality. This doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's paradigm-bending.

It is like traveling and visit other countries as a tourist. I used to love to travel everywhere. But then I realized that while I was traveling, I am not here anymore. With OBE this is not really the case, because you go somewhere while staying where you are already. Or you visit where you've already been. Or where you will be, only it's rare to recognize it when it happens, lol.


I look at the traveling show and think to myself, what about his life at home and daily life. When he is constantly out there, where is the contentment of staying where we are and find joy and meaning in the here and now. I believe, that depending on how your consciousness is, it brings an understanding to where you are, and a sense of awe and wonder to what we consider our daily life. And if you're lucky, it can increase the dimension of your present relationships.

In my spiritual journey, I have found that the most amazing state is where I am at, my small apartment, where I have all the things that I need, and I don't really need much. I don't need wonder to cheer me up, and I don't need to get happy somewhere else. But do you realize that there is another dimension to where you are, and what you have? This is what I'm talking about.

On the other hand, OBE can be energy consuming. When we get to project out of our body and have a good experience, we are excited, but when our attempt fails, it's a bit disappointing. This is true, and now we're back to Kundalini. If you can be dissapointed enough at not being able to achieve OBE to give up, this would tell me that more work needs to be done. Do you think a person who feels very strongly about OBE (to the point of needing to get their spiritual input from it) will benefit from somehow raising Kundalini?

I think I understand how amazing it is to be in the higher dimentions to be immersed in the loving energy and God's energy. But what if we can find that right here right now? I believe that's really what it's all about, because for God it's all here and now. So unity is what it is wherever it takes place.

I have been in that Godly state right here. OBEs is amazing but maybe it is not urgent since I will have plenty of opportunities when I passed on? Ask yourself- where is that sense of urgency coming from?

I was just wondering why I am trying to OBE more. Is it because everyone seems to be looking for it? What do you think?
ps. I hope not.

[amazingjourney]

Thank you CFT:

I really appreciate your response for this question. I have hoped that someone so experienced like you would share your thoughts on this topic. Reading your experiences really get me excited what is possible. It's just inspirational!

I know that the point is that even the here and now has other dimentions to it, and it is not just to expand our views. The potential of what is possible is a good point as well. The growth and development of our spirituality and consciousness through discovering and refining the ability of OBEing is also endless, in that the dimentions that we can discover and explore are endless. Having such experienes is like discovering the secret of life and this universe. I think this is also why I am drawn to exploring it after my own spontaneous experiences. Before I get serious about something though, I would like to ask myself serious questions, especially when I have other type of spiritual experiences where it has led me to other more self love realizations and loving compassions to all beings on this earth. But I can understand the experience as intense and life changing as the OBEs can be a spiritual path in itself as well, only the pace and the process is different.

The other reason for this question is that some other spiritual paths advice people not to put too much focus on these "superpowers" and rather, just let it play out itself. From my own experiences, I think there is some degree of truth to it. I like the fact that last time around, I was very grounded and centered with the practice of focusing on the now. This time around though, while working on chakras brought out emotional issues, this past three days after starting MAP, I can sometimes feel a bit edgy. Other times, I can also get this self confidence and faith growing stronger, knowing that this world or this dimention is not it. If you ask me, I would like to be grounded and centered before I get all these superpowers so to speak.

Kundalini is inevitable in our awakening process. (Another post mentioned there is a way to bypass it in the Tibetan Book of Death?) As people are in the awakening process, kundalini is bound to get activated. I am sure once people experience OBE enough, the awakening process will start very soon, for what they encounter in the spiritual world. Kundalini will start soon.

I was just using CD5 last night, and this goosepump sensation, the twitching of my neck and head, the mild electrical shocks, and the physical floating sensation are kinda of creepy. Usually I have the floating duing half awake state. When I am fully conscious, it just feels very creepy, even scary!

[Korpo]

The Indian sages seem to make freely use of their advanced powers, but it is not necessarily what makes them sages. I'm currently reading the early chapters of "Autobiography of a Yogi" and though Yogananda and others experienced miracles when they got in touch with those masters, what left the most lasting impression seems to me was the distinct feeling of divine love and immersion irradiating from these beings.

As for the powers, each tradition holds it separately. Theravada Buddhism has texts where Buddha chastises monks indulging in the powers meditation brought them, but in Tibetan Buddhism there is a strong influence by Tibetan magic. A lot of Taoist practictioners of the "Spiritual Embryo" disciplines actively enforce the development of psychic powers (opening of the eight psychic channels, etc.), while the Taoist Lao Tsu tradition sees this stage of maturation as a potential trap as it is so easy to get distracted and hooked on power, moving away from the spiritual goal while making oneself believe that one is moving towards it.

As for OBE - it opens an interesting opportunity. Ever thought of trying to access teacher beings from the spiritual realms? :)

Oliver

[star]

Amazing Journey, I think that OBE can lead to interesting and informative experience. But keeping an eye on what lives in the general area at all times through the third eye or another energy sensory organ might be more acceptable at first. You'll notice all sorts of things, and it will even answer questions you didn't know you had, all IMO of course.