Kundalini Dynamics???

[Jonathan2525]

A long while back, around 2000 I think RB had in his future works section a book called "When the Sacred Auummm Becomes You". This was going to be a detailed guide on how to raise one's Kundalini. Later on, in the old forums (very old forums), there was a disucssin (thread name magnetic buttocks) in which RB said that the new title would be "Kundalini Dynamics". I see now that such a book is not even in the Future Works section. Any idea when/if this work will materialize?

[Akashic_Librarian]

Don't know much bout this.....Although from what i have heard about the Kundalini i wouldn't reccommend raising it unless you where very advanced in spirit and Energy. Dangerous, powerful, painful. Three words i think sum up Kundalini, aslso Enlightenment.
Don't bother with it YET, although it would b a good read for research only

[Christian]

A word that describes kundalini besides those mentioned is bliss. And I would like to add that one should have a stable mind and be mentally well before trying to raise kundalini because if you're not one can actually go insane... I did (having a psychosis) so take great care when dealing with this powerful energy. And trust your instincts regarding this subject and if you don't feel ready then you shouldn't try raising it. If you feel ready then try. But on the other hand I think it's quite impossible to be prepared for all things that kundalini brings so one don't really don't know if one is ready or not before after it has been activated and if it has been acitvated it can't be deactivated... So when raised one has to live with both the positive and negative sides of kundalini, but my thoughts is that I wouldn't want to be without it because the positive sides are more longterm and stronger than the negative ones.

Christian

[Jonathan2525]

I wanted to drop RB a line to ask him when his book is coming out. I have no immediate plan to undertake this work since it sounds like it would require a lot of time, which at the moment I lack. All the available literature seems extremely dogmatic and unclear. The only usable info came from RB himself in the old forums. He put up plenty of posts, (which sadly I misplaced), about the subject. The information in them was clear and objective (and in English as opposed to Sanskrit); but according to RB himself incomplete. I thought I'd post here first so as not to bother him. Anyone who is aware of his plans, and can let me know, I’d much appreciate it.

[Jonathan2525]

Here's the info RB posted previously in his future works projects:

When The Aummm Becomes You:
Planned Book: An indepth hands-on guide and theoretical perspective of Kundalini (what the author calles The Master Circuit) and the quest for realization and emancipation. This book will provide everything you need to understand, develop and raise your Kundalini. Starting at the very beginning, this book will offer a logical Western (as opposed to Westernized) approach to preparing the physical body and mind, while developing and nurturing the energy body; all in a balanced and healthy way. A rigorous tutorial including secondary, primary and master circuit bioenergy development work, plus sage advice on how to survive this extraordinary process sane and intact. It also gives advice on what to do with raised Kundalini.... when The Sacred Aummm Becomes You. This book will be started early in 2001, and should be ready for publication several months later.

Since this info was removed from the planned books section does that mean the author no longer plans to publish such work?

[Ascendant]

I believe I read somewhere (but I could be wrong) that he wanted to wait to publish it for some reason. But it does sound exciting.

[Quantitativefool]

I would be very eager to read that book...

-Stu

[Jonathan2525]

woa... 106 views and no one has any knowledge of when the book might be coming out; if it's coming out at all :(

[Jaco]

woa... 106 views and no one has any knowledge of when the book might be coming out; if it's coming out at all :(
Contact Robert Bruce. Send him an e-mail or private message. Look for the information at the source. :wink:

[Jonathan2525]

Jaco wrote:

Contact Robert Bruce. Send him an e-mail or private message. Look for the information at the source.

I did but I suppose it will take a while for him to answer. When he does, I will post it here.

Here is some stuff I dug out of the AP forum:


Posted: 28 Jun 2002 14:22 By Robert Bruce
I am currently writing a 'Treatise on Kundalini', and hope to have it ready in about a week. This will help eliminate some misconceptions.

Note the date of the above is over three years old.

Also:


Posted: 09 Jan 2003 04:55 by Robert Bruce
Kundalini Dynamics is on hold, re I do not have the facilities to continue my high level investigations into such things at the moment. Hopefully, things will improve in the near future. I simply cannot devote the necessary time to this project at the moment.

and the above is practically three years old.

I'm starting to think that Kundalini Dynamics is another "Romancing the Eye". :lol: Shame though. Fortunately, I think Robert has given enough info in his posts to at least attempt a kundalini rising.

[Kalonek]

woa... 106 views and no one has any knowledge of when the book might be coming out; if it's coming out at all :(

I must be your saviour then 8) :lol:
I did an interview of RB for my website astralsight.com a few weeks ago (http://www.astralsight.com/article.php3?id_article=64), here is a link to the original English version (the site is in French) :

http://www.astralsight.com/IMG/pdf/RBinterview.pdf

He talks about his future works and his book on Kundalini. Obviously, it won't be published until 2010-2011 I guess.

Hope it answers your question.

[Jonathan2525]

Thanks for the link Kalonek, and it looks like you're right. It will take a while for the book to come out. Probably several years from what he said in the interview.

[Kalonek]

You're welcome :)
And indeed I guess it won't be available until the very beginning of the next decade.

[Aunt Clair]

Robert plans to submit his latest book to the publisher in June of 2006 .
He plans to make this a manual that will make energy raising and manipulation information more fundamentally basic so that a larger population can access this important methodology . Energy is crucial to develop any clarient skill and to heal self and others . Energy raising is powerful to imbibe the subtle bodies of the energy body with light and to increase the potential of the sitter to project with control and recall .

Kundalini manifestation at will can be done and it is not necessarily dangerous . Older aspirants over the age of 23 yo cannot raise it by will until they are ready in body mind soul and spirit . So teaching it is not dangerous in their case .

To raise the kundalini at will but there are prerequisites including:
raising energy thru the feet to the crown and from the crown to the feet .
already having raised the primary set of kundalini flames
which are pale yellow male sun
platinum blue female moon
pink male son avatar
pale green female princess avatar
and the secondary flames
orange
indigo
salmon
and chartreuse

When these have been raised thru natural spiritual development and the gradual enlightenment process ,then the rainbow cobras may be raised at will .

However , if you are younger than 23 years old and you are born with the primary bundle of kundalini flames raised then you might be able to raise it by will right now . This is where it does get possibly dangerous . Young ones should consider if they are balanced in body mind soul and spirit . Those who raise any flame without proper preparation can indeed have psychological difficulties .

[Apex]

Does this imply that RB's new book will include some kundalini info related to his NEW methods, or was that merely an informational post?

[Aunt Clair]

Does this imply that RB's new book will include some kundalini info related to his NEW methods, or was that merely an informational post?
Robert Bruce is a international expert on many metaphysical areas which include but are not limited to
energy awareness
energy raising
energy manipulation
kundalini development
defense against psychic and neg attacks
meditative trance methods
astral projection and OBE

He is very busy writing and traveling internationally presenting energy workshops . He only told me that he has delayed that book which was to describe the Uraeus Effect and kundalini in order to focus on a primer that will make his work accessible . This will bring it back to basics and be a fundamental work for those who find the lexicon and the prerequisite background knowledge precludes them from success with his earlier works .

So he plans to submit that new book instead to his publishers in June of 2006 which is about energy too . But I am not sure if any of that text will be about kundalini and suggest you pm him if you would like specific information .I do know that he plans to make this one a thin primer but he laughed as he said that because that is so difficult to do .

Robert is keen to complete that other text about manifesting kundalini too . But his schedule is already daunting . Robert was in Italy , England , Canada , USA , and Australia etc so many times in 2005 .

And it is increasingly apparent that adepts are getting younger and their literacy levels are not always commensurate with their vast spiritual abilities . So for this reason and many others the publishers have pressured Robert to provide an entry level primer on energy first .I am not aware of what the entire scope will be though.

When you consider that 12 year old children today are projecting , remote viewing and practicing psionics you can see this need . These kids have not completed their primary school education . They have not traveled the world . They are not widely read literate human beings YET . These younger adepts can run rings around their parents spiritually but must still learn to read and comprehend at an adult level in their native language .

All must balance the body mind soul and spirt just like the ancient adepts did . I do not feel Robert publishers will want to bring the book down to the level of a 12 year old though so I guess he will aim for an easy adult level instead . Then the text would be accessible to those 14 years and older . But I guess that remains to be seen. I have read all of his works and look forward to this next one too .

[Aunt Clair]

....a detailed guide on how to raise one's Kundalini.
While you are waiting on that Bruce manifesto here are some bits to chew on :)

In my alchemy group , we raised the first four primary flames of the kundalini over 5 years .In another year's time we raised several secondary nadis . We accomplished this using NEW energy methods as described for free on this link :
http://astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=18
and through meditative trance projections to spirit realms to learn as a mystic about advanced alchemy and to imbibe the subtle bodies with subsequent layers of light .

I feel that kundalini is quite natural and that it will rise in a predictable sequence of coloured flames that have been historically witnessed clairvoyantly .In this photo you will note the first pale yellow sun flame rises then the platinum blue moon sets and then the rose rises . A significant time later the last primary flame rises as a pale green . The ancient sanskrit texts describe this and my alchemy circle has clairvoyantly witnessed so we can confirm it to be true .
http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/6F/A2/AlchemicalFlame/1/4d.jpg

http://groups.msn.com/AlchemicalFlame/shoebox.msnw?Page=1
There are innumerable nadis but only four main flames . The rare problem with kundalini emotional difficulties tends to occur in those that have mental instability or have had recent emotional trauma ie near death or a the sudden death of a loved one which opens them in a catastrophic manner and can cause a terrible ordeal . On the other hand , the average seeker need not worry as the body will develop on its own through your metaphysical practices slowly and surely .

We cannot halt puberty ,menopause , old age or death . The kundalini is similar to these other natural unfoldments . The kundalini will rise in naturally occuring spiritual development within the body .There exists a plethora of new age myths regarding its traumatic effects which do nothing to help humanity but only serves to ground us in fear and prevent us from shining . I can remote view your energy body for free online if you want an idea of how you have developed btw , just add me to msn messenger . Most spiritually aware humans are much more advanced than they think . So it not unusual for a sitter to be worried about raising the first flame when they are actually raising their third flame and they have not had a problem yet .

Once the energy body has been perfected hermetically and the primay flames have all risen ,the rainbow kundalini cobras can be manifested at will by Kriya Yoga breathing techniques , Qi Chong and through the use of advanced alchemical structures such as the wheels that develop naturally on the tan tien energy storage centres. For example , when the wheel on the heart opens a dragon , a cobra or a crocodile may be seen to come into the adepts heart clairvoyantly. These are manifestations of the kundalini .

The Kundalini Dragon rising is a recent subset of the Universal Mind wherein young aware ones project for dreamstate lessons to the temples on the core spiritual realm. The dragon is one of the manifestations of kundalini . What is unusual about this subset is their collective progress . Whatever one of them manifests alchemically the working ones manifest also within 3 days . So this is beyond Robert Monroes focus level 35 and is the group consciousness stage he predicted so many years ago .

Not all of those under the age of 23 years old are born to a higher vibration but a significant number have been . Each subsequent wave brings in some children at a higher vibration .Personally I feel the vast majority are still being born dismally unaware but this raising is a hope to slowly shift the planet to a higher vibration .

Of course awakening the body alone to advanced alchemy is insufficient . The mind must still recall esoteric and exoteric wisdom and the adept must balance their body, mind ,soul and spirit . The dragons are born with a higher amount of kundalini flowing .But all of us can learn to manifest kundalini at will . This internal flow within the energy body continues its development and eases projection and healing and meditative trance to project with recall etc .Powering up actually aids all clairient skills and will enhance their further development too .

Robert Bruce suggests focusing on the full body circuit to balance and enhance chakra energy prior to any efforts to raise your kundalini .

http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=4&BulletinID=218
Here are some links to threads about raising kundalini naturally through meditation .
http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum// ... 944.0.html (http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum//index.php/topic,12944.0.html)
http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewto ... =kundalini (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=324&highlight=kundalini)

and there is more info on these links :
http://www.elcollie.com/st/fire.html
http://www.oztantra.com/cobra_breath.htm
http://www.aloha.net/~ruth/Caduceus.html
http://www.tearsofllorona.com/kundalin.html
http://www.tantra-kundalini.com/nadis.htm
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resourc ... ch-38.html (http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/mws/mws_ch-38.html)
http://www.kundalini-teacher.com/awaken ... ening.html (http://www.kundalini-teacher.com/awakening/awakening.html)
http://www.yoga-age.com/modern/kun4.html
http://www.bhagavadgitausa.com/kundalini_power.htm
http://www.crystalinks.com/kundalini.html
http://www.cit-sakti.com/kundalini/kund ... olding.htm (http://www.cit-sakti.com/kundalini/kundalini-unfolding.htm)
http://www.indiayogi.com/kundalini/kundalini.asp
http://www.sahajayoga.org/chakrasandsub ... efault.asp (http://www.sahajayoga.org/chakrasandsubtlebody/default.asp)
http://www.aryabhatt.com/pranayama/pranayama3.htm
http://laluni.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/me ... i1039.html (http://laluni.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/meditation/medi1039.html)
http://laluni.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/he ... l1065.html (http://laluni.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/healing/heal1065.html)
http://www.elcollie.com/st/resource.html
I apologise in advance should any of these links be broken .

[Apex]

Thanks for that long post on kundalini, and link to the AS post. They were pretty informational to me, now a few more terminologies make sense.


http://groups.msn.com/AlchemicalFlam...oto&PhotoID=77


That link looks like it was trunicated.

[Aunt Clair]

Thanks for that long post on kundalini, and link to the AS post. They were pretty informational to me, now a few more terminologies make sense.


http://groups.msn.com/AlchemicalFlam...oto&PhotoID=77


That link looks like it was truncated.

oops You are right as usual ,Sorlac , ty :oops:

[Jonathan2525]

Hello all,

I was reading aunt clair's post on Kundalini and It got me thinking as to all the different views there are on Kundalini. Some people say that Serpent of Fire is a metaphorical name, others say it is a literal description of what it feels like when it rises (i.e. liquid fire coiling up in your body like a serpent). The representatives of the theosophical society, a very well know and influential mystical/occult group in case you didn't know, say that Kundalini needs to be guided through a specific sequence of chakras, while Robert Bruce states that the force is far too strong to be guided by any exercise of the will. A.E. Powell, a well know theosophic author and compiler, in his book "The Etheric Double", writes:


...it is necessary that the serpent-fire move to the chakrams in a certain order, and in a certain way, which varies with different types of people...Before Kundalini is aroused it is absolutely essential that a definite stage of moral purity be reached and also that the will be strong enough to control the force...One very common effect of arousing it prematurely is that it rushes downwards into the lower centres of the body instead of upwards, resulting in the excitation of the most undesirable passions, which are apt to be intensified to such a degree that it is quite impossible for the man to resist them. In the grip of such a force he is as helpless as a swimmer in the jaws of a shark...There is a school of black magic which purposely uses this power in this way, but the lower force-centres which in this school are used are always left severely alone by followers of the Good Law or White Magic...The premature unfoldment of Kundalini intensifies also everything in the nature, reaching in fact the lower evil qualities more readily than the good.

You can see in the above discrepancies with what RB explains about Kundalini. Notice the second to last part of the quote, the part about a black school of magic guiding Kundalini through the lower chakras, this is a very specific statement, which can either be true or a complete and deliberate lie as it is difficult to imagine a miscommunication.

Theosophy and RB do seem to agree on some points, like the following:


The arousing is achieved by a determined and long-continued effort of the will, bringing the centre at the base of the spine into activity... (Powell)

This is similar to what RB says. Furthermore:


To clairvoyant vision it appears in very truth like liquid fire as it rushed through the body, and the course through which it ought to move is a spiral one like the coils of a serpent. (Powell)

This also agrees with Bruce's literal interpretation of the Serpent of Fire term.

nevermind... :oops:

[Aunt Clair]

I'd like to know if anyone has come across a different set of "facts" regarding the specifics of the Kundalini phenomenon. Preferably facts that come from a respectable well established source.

Robert Bruce is internationally famous and widely respected as a metaphysical author so I would certainly claim that he is a "respectable well established source ". He is also one of the few metaphysical authors that I do respect that are still alive . He verifies and goes to the source and does the metaphysical research . He learns by projection and meditative trance and energy body perceptions . Too many other authors merely parrot material that is false and have no first hand experience . I do not know this author Powell and I mean no disrespect to you or him . I will try to search for an ebook version to see myself before I render a decision on the merit of his work but based upon what you have cited here it seems to be armchair work to me . Please forgive me if that sounds rude . I dont mean to be .

Alice Bailey , Dr. Joshua David Stone , Robert Monroe , and Franz Bardon are all deceased . Frankly nothing else has been written that compares to their metaphysical works . If you will look to the ebooks that are treasured classics you will see what I mean . Perhaps there is another that has escaped popular attention of acting mystics but I do not know of one from my circles . Oh well , maybe James Hurtak's Book of Knowledge or arguably Diana Cooper's A Little Light on Ascension but they have not continued to write nor to produce methodology that can be accessed so that an aspirant can learn from them .

Robert Bruce is a contemporary that continues to go straight to the source and he remains on the cutting edge as such some of his earlier writings on kundalini have been updated and are no longer ideas that he holds rigidly . Another reason that I respect his work is his ability to discard ideas that are no longer relevant or ones that he has found not to be credible . You must use your own discernment of course .

But Robert Bruce's description of the kundalini Uraeus Effect was spot on . When my alchemy group also came to this stage we experienced exactly what he had described . Also when we developed the urn of Garuda and began to be able to remote project to each other by naming a snake it piqued my interest in his work once more as he was the only one who had described that phenomenon in print at that date .



A.E. Powell, a well know theosophic author and compiler, in his book "The Etheric Double", writes:..it is necessary that the serpent-fire move to the chakrams in a certain order, and in a certain way, which varies with different types of people...

Both of those statements are perhaps incorrect out of context or out of time in validity . The kundalini does not need to be guided , it will rise on its own . And RB is right that it is far too strong to be controlled in its rising thru the primary flames . The raising of it by will is not the same thing at all . Perhaps therein lies the confusion . The calling up of the kundalini energy by will is a method of bringing in energy from the prana surrounding the sitter up the channels that the kundalini has helped to open . This energy can be called kundalini and not psi in that it is clairvoyantly witnessed as a large golden serpent entering the energy body thru the open wheels manifested in advanced alchemy in the human energy body . It will come in as a huge golden serpent and can be felt to move up the channels . This cannot be called up until the earlier and primary flames have been ignited . When it comes into the body it manifests as a dragon in the shoulders and head and is unmistakable clairvoyantly and clairsentiently .


Before Kundalini is aroused it is absolutely essential that a definite stage of moral purity be reached and also that the will be strong enough to control the force
That is a prevalent myth but I do not respect it as a truth .


Notice also the second to last part of the quote, the part about a black school of magic guiding Kundalini through the lower chakras. This is a very specific statement, which can either be true or a complete and deliberate lie as it is difficult to imagine a miscomunication.
This passage is speaking about dark tantra and dark kanda they do exist and they are brought down by decision in misguided people notably controlled by negs . The dark kanda does not have to be guided through the chakras though so in that I will disagree . The dark arts magician must merely continue engaging in dark tantra and it will manifest on its own . These misguided youths do not tend to be in schools but in little cliques that astrally rape and drain their victims until they are harnessed and become too drained themselves by their negs to fly or see anymore . They are self limiting . As Robert says there is always a yin and a yang for every evil under the sun there is a remedy . I have exorcised these dark kandas from humans who have negs attached to them .It is a sad evil they do to the world which ultimately harms themselves more than anyone else . The dark kanda also has subsequent cobras that emerge . I would not call them light , flame and rising though . They are seen as a cold evil dark thing of shadow lacking any light or hope which continues to grow like tree roots until the victim is grounded by their deeds. Black is holy , dark is not . Mother Earth anchors these aberrant children in time .

Robert Bruce has also written on this . However I feel that this other text is fearmonging and not as responsible as the way that Robert writes . I do not think that the two authors disagree so much in substance on that aspect though . Thanks for this thread it has made me ruminate and contemplate a lot . Om Shanti .

[Jonathan2525]

Hello all,


Aunt Clair wrote:
Robert Bruce is internationally famous and widely respected as a metaphysical author so I would certainly claim that he is a "respectable well established source ".

I concur, and so was Powell and the People he quoted (Blavatsky, Besant, Leadbeater, Westcott...).


Aunt Clair wrote:
Alice Bailey , Dr. Joshua David Stone , Robert Monroe , and Franz Bardon are all deceased . Frankly nothing else has been written that compares to their metaphysical works .

I haven’t read anything by Bailey or Stone. Can you recommend online works of these authors? I have read some of Monroe and Bardon. Incidentally, the latter author makes some sensationalistic claims about Astral Projection. In his book Initiation Into Hermetics Bardon writes:


If during the period in which the mental and astral bodies are loosened from the physical matrix, the latter were touched by another person, no matter whether skilled or unskilled in magic practice, the said ribbon, being extremely subtle, would break in two at once. The connection between the physical body being thus interrupted, physical death would be the consequence. Therefore utmost care has to be taken right from the beginning of these exercises that nobody should be able to touch the body of the magician when he puts himself in the described state.

Meaning when you’re projecting and somebody touches you, even if you are an advanced practitioner, you will die. Was Franz Bardon misinformed or was he trying to instill fear in magical practitioners?

As for Kundalini Bardon writes:


Consequently the Shakti or Kundalini power represents the imagination that the magician has to develop systematically. Casting a retrospective glance at our entire developmental system, the magician will certainly find that it is just this creative power of the phallus, namely the imagination and its development that are playing the main role in his training.

The developmental system of which he speaks, the one given in IIH, does not include the anything like the rising of the Serpent of Fire. He states that the power of Kundalini is simply imagination.

When all the experts disagree, there is nothing left to do but see for one self.

[Aunt Clair]

When all the experts disagree, there is nothing left to do but see for one self.Well yes that is why going straight to the source is what mystics do .

I haven’t read anything by Bailey or Stone. Can you recommend online works of these authors?
Alice Bailey heirs instructed to place it all free online through Lucis Trust just google it .
Stone's best works are still free . He published some free ebooks too but I cant find that link I recall a title Ascension Handbook . Notably his techniques on accessing ascension seats and ashrams are invaluable . Look on my msn site if you would like to get a link to his guided meditation to access the Golden Chamber of Melchiezedek etc.

Respecting any metaphysical researcher does not imply that the reader must or should consider them infallible . Bardon's Hermetic works is beyond comparison and remains a classic . Was he right about everything , no . But he exposed in great detail so much to help the spiritual development of humanity and he continues to come in spirit to teach mystics today . So yeah I think he is tops .Recall he had few peers was largely self taught and did his pioneering work before the internet and before the acceptance of mysticism . Know that he sacrificed so much to reveal his work . He was tortured by Nazis in WW II not for being a mystic but for not being willing to teach occult dark magic.

Franz Bardon is regarded by many as greatest Hermetic adept of the 20th century. A tireless worker for the light, he survived Hitler's concentration camps but died a victim of Communist persecution in 1958. He left behind him four legendary books which have become acknowledged classics of occult literature.http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:FLLM ... lini&hl=en (http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:FLLMoSajbF0J:www.glassbeadgame.com/magic.htm+Bardon+on+kundalini&hl=en)
But I dont think that quote represents Bardon's view on kundalini btw . Imagination does not mean the same thing to the magician he means it not in the sense it does not exist but in the sense throughout his writings of visualisation . That the magician must realise that faith in the unseen will prove their work in time when they develop clairient abilities and must begin with imagination alone .


Page 107, "La visualisation", "Visualization"1. 1) TX: Visualization is the mental's faculty of creating images, called therefore "mental",- they take shape on the forehead's inner screen or in front of one, eyes open or closed. That creation of images is equally called "imagination " in the actual meaning of the term but current usage attributed to that word another significance: unreality, dream, etc... That capacity to create images is one of the most determining factors of power in Magic.http://www.geocities.com/franzbardon/moryason1.html

[Jonathan2525]

Does this imply that RB's new book will include some kundalini info related to his NEW methods, or was that merely an informational post?

Here's a question from RB's recent interview:


You are currently working on the first volume of a trilogy on energy, Foundation of Energy Work. What could you tell us about this book and the whole trilogy?

The first book in the series teaches the basics of the energy body and the NEW Energy Ways system, theory and practice. All of my books contain some aspects of the NEW Energy Ways system, but this book will contain everything, including primary centre work (working with the major chakras). My methods have evolved greatly over the years, so this will also contain my updated methods and understanding, including the use of energy balls and changing the properties of energy by adding intention.
The next book in the series will delve more deeply into the energy body and its higher functions, including the development and energetic of psychic abilities. The third book in the series will focus on the higher spiritual aspects of the energy body, especially Kundalini and Uraeus Serpent of Fire, theory and practical.

For the whole thing follow the link (its in pdf):

http://www.astralsight.com/IMG/pdf/RBinterview.pdf

Thx again Kalonek for the above link bro.

[Apex]

Ah.

Thanks for that info Jonathan2525.

[Kalonek]

You're welcome Jonathan2525 :wink:

[SetiAmon]

As someone who has familiarized himself with bardons work now I can tell you what bardon calls "astral projection" isn't what most people now a days call astral projection,he calls what most people consider astral projection as "mental projection" were as FB's astral projection is the actual removal of what some would call the etherical body,the energy within the physical body,this if i recall is also referred to as the death trance in tibetan myticism.the reason for performing astral projection is merely for learning and is very dangerous.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello all,

[quote]Aunt Clair wrote:
Robert Bruce is internationally famous and widely respected as a metaphysical author so I would certainly claim that he is a "respectable well established source ".

I concur, and so was Powell and the People he quoted (Blavatsky, Besant, Leadbeater, Westcott...).


Aunt Clair wrote:
Alice Bailey , Dr. Joshua David Stone , Robert Monroe , and Franz Bardon are all deceased . Frankly nothing else has been written that compares to their metaphysical works .

I haven’t read anything by Bailey or Stone. Can you recommend online works of these authors? I have read some of Monroe and Bardon. Incidentally, the latter author makes some sensationalistic claims about Astral Projection. In his book Initiation Into Hermetics Bardon writes:


If during the period in which the mental and astral bodies are loosened from the physical matrix, the latter were touched by another person, no matter whether skilled or unskilled in magic practice, the said ribbon, being extremely subtle, would break in two at once. The connection between the physical body being thus interrupted, physical death would be the consequence. Therefore utmost care has to be taken right from the beginning of these exercises that nobody should be able to touch the body of the magician when he puts himself in the described state.

Meaning when you’re projecting and somebody touches you, even if you are an advanced practitioner, you will die. Was Franz Bardon misinformed or was he trying to instill fear in magical practitioners?

As for Kundalini Bardon writes:


Consequently the Shakti or Kundalini power represents the imagination that the magician has to develop systematically. Casting a retrospective glance at our entire developmental system, the magician will certainly find that it is just this creative power of the phallus, namely the imagination and its development that are playing the main role in his training.

The developmental system of which he speaks, the one given in IIH, does not include the anything like the rising of the Serpent of Fire. He states that the power of Kundalini is simply imagination.

When all the experts disagree, there is nothing left to do but see for one self.[/quote:vhtou91f]

[star]

I have yet to have a dangerous encounter; but I have heard that we run into whatever we expect to run into?

Maybe if your thinking your trip will be dangerous there is the greater chance for it.

[Aunt Clair]

what Bardon calls "astral projection" isn't what most people call (AP) I disagree respectfully. FB does distinguish though between projection of consciousness and projection of an astral body .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Bardon
The three worlds or "planes" are as follows: the mental plane is the highest reality, save for the undivided akasha, and is the true and eternal ego. Where the akasha is in a sense the world of ideas, it is the mental plane that sets these ideas in motion. The astral plane is the next one down and contains the archetypes of the physical world and to some extent the vital energy behind it; the physical world is the lowest of the planes and requires little explanation. Each of these worlds forms a matrix for the world below it. Since humans also have three bodies corresponding to their presence in each of the three worlds, severing the link between any two of these bodies will cause the dissolution of the lower forms (or death). Such things as astral projection are still possible as they only involve loosening the hold between the bodies.


...FB's astral projection is the actual removal of what some would call the etherical body,
Did you mean to write FB here or RB because I feel you are contradicting yourself and it confuses me .

also referred to as the death trance in Tibetan myticism.
This is interesting and I would like to hear more about it please elucidate us .
The reason for performing astral projection is merely for learning
Life is 'merely' for learning .

and is very dangerous.
Is it ?

[workinprogress]

I too have read Franz Bardon's books and I am working on IIH. In this book, Step IX, Magical Schooling of the Soul, Bardon discusses the seperating of the astral body from the physical body. He says the following:

"The greatest care has to be exercised when executing the projection of the astral body because, in contrast to mental travel, both conection links - the one between the mental and the astral body and the astral and the physical body, which are called the mental matrix and astral matrix - are now exposed due to the seperation from the physical body and only a fine silvery elastic life-cord connects the mental and astral bodies with the physical body. When the magician is in this state, when the mental and astral bodies are seperated from the physical body and their only connection is the astral matrix (the silvery life-cord), and a stranger, whether magically trained or not trained at all, touches the magician's physical body, this very fine life-cord will immediately break, and the connection with the physical body will be instantly severed. The result will be the physical death of the magician. It is therefore of the utmost importance that, immediately upon beginning these exercises and while you are in this state, you make absolutely certain that no one is given the opportunity to touch your physical body. The reason this life-cord breaks can be attributed to the fact that a person's electromagnetic fluid has such a strong effect that the life-cord, even of a magician who is far advanced, cannot withstand this fluid."

He goes on to say that upon an autopsy, the ME would determine the cause of death to be heart failure or paralysis of the heart.

When I read this, I had my doubts. I have read numerous places that the etheric/astral body seperates naturally during sleep. I have personally experienced natural OBE's during sleep. Wouldn't it be dangerous for a husband and wife to sleep together then? If one of them touches the other while sleeping, the person would die. This is assuming that the Etheric body is the same as the Astral body. Bardon never mentions the etheric body though. He only mentions the mental body and astral body.

In my experience, I don't perceive any danger at being touched while I'm out. That doesn't mean it can't happen, but so many people travel in the astral these days, surely we would have heard of deaths as a result.

So my other thought was that maybe we are using different terms. Perhaps what we do in the astral is use our mental bodies, to use Bardon's language. And he states that this danger isn't present when traveling in the mental body. And perhaps what he calls the astral body is different and more difficult to do. One which the people currently astral traveling haven't advanced far enough to do, so it hasn't been a danger.

I don't know the answer as I'm not advanced enough to say. I do respect much of what Bardon has written, so I'm not necessarily ignoring his warning here. Rather I'm advancing at my own pace and using my own experiences to re-evaluate my thoughts/views/approaches going forward. And I haven't come to this one yet, so .... :?: :?: who knows?

However, anyone who has advanced to this step in his book has already mastered mental travel and can communicate with spirits and beings well versed in magic, astral travel, etc. So the person at this level should simply ask the experts and get their understanding directly from the source, so to speak. At least that's what I intend to do when I have mastered mental travel.

[Aunt Clair]

I have completed the ten steps in the Path of the Magician , and though I greatly admire Franz Bardon for the incredible amount of valuable and original metaphysical work he shared ,he is not infallible .

I believe that you are correct that this is an area of error on his part , WIP .The silver cord may be touched or plucked and it will not cause death . At one point we were asked by the mahatma to sever ours . This took a leap of faith . But it did not kill any of us and we were able to ascend to higher realms after it was cut . I feel that another structure called the antakarana superceded it.

And I do not believe that cutting it in projection will kill humans either. It is possible that the silver cord is vital in earlier stages to bring the projector back to the body .Perhaps cutting it in these earlier stages could be perilous but I do not think so although I would not suggest it . Perhaps we cannot cut it until after the antakarana supercedes it . Of this I am not sure , but I suspect that you are right about this too , WIP .

Good thread .

[SetiAmon]

What i said before was basically RB projection would be called Mental projection by bardonist.As for why one would perform astral projection as bardon discribes it when mental projection is easier and safer,the only answer is to learn to manipulate and control oneself better,bardon recommends MP for most activities.

I Did do a FB AP once,essentially it felt like i was streching a beam of energy connecting me to my body as i started to walk on the floor,it was extreamly dense and physical,i got as far as the door before i felt the tension pull me back into my body.were as when it comes to mental projection i have in the past just floated right out within meditation(not replicatable yet)

[SetiAmon]

This is one thing that I'v never actually seen,I have never seen any cord,i'v felt like something was connecting us but I could never see it.

[workinprogress]

I've never seen it myself either, but multiple sources verify it exists. I'm sure if I need to see it someday that I will. But I also have never gone looking for it. :roll:

When I'm out I've got other things I want to do than check and see if I have one. I figure something is connecting me to my body because I can get in and out with ease, so its probably there. :wink:

[Aunt Clair]

There are more than these two styles of projection you mention , but I would like to consider the advantages of AP and MP herein ,first .

What i said before was basically RB projection would be called Mental projection by Bardonist. No , I don't think so . Robert Bruce definitely projects an astral double and does not engage in mental projection exclusively . Rather , he actually prefers AP and OBE instead .

Robert and I have discussed this before . He prefers AP and I prefer MP . But both of us can do either .I feel we need to learn both styles as these each have advantages and constraints.

For example , RB prefers to project concsiousness when he is dealing with negs to see without sending a body to be harmed . I concur this is safer.

I prefer to project an astral double when bi locating in RTZ. Also when in lucid dream or astral, I may wish to have a body . The spirit teachers may require that we bring a body with us to some realms too . For example we were not allowed to enter the last wheel on the pillar of the right hand path until we could become all air in element and see it in our projected light body. We could not project consciousness alone to see it . There was a barrier there and we had to bring a body into it to pass through it . I feel that this stretches our limits , expands our consciousness and is a vital part of mental discipline .

Here is how I see the two styles you have highlighted Setiamon;

Mental Projection ; RB and I call this projection of consciousness
reasons for MP include ascending to higher planes as the body tethers one down and one can easily bi locate during MP to give off what is seen ,heard ,felt while trancing so can confirm what others see feel hear

Astral Projection : to project to the lower planes it is best to take the body with you to be able to interact with the environment .The astral body cannot ascend beyond the astral plane so discussing it going further is a mute point . We can use the astral body to project to RTZ to interact with another projector or to interact with a non projected live human .

We can not limit self to one or other .Clearly both are needed to fully explore and to ascend . When we imbibe the subtle body layers with light , we anchor a nested layer and can ascend to a higher plane . That is to say we take on additional layers of light building up our light quotient to ascend to a higher vibration plane .Conversely we leave more of the physical behind .

When we define projection , there are many other styles which do not pigeonhole into one of these two descriptions as AP or MP . Here are some variations which can be called OBE but not AP or MP;
a.
MP to higher plane but within that meditation require an appearence of an energy body to interact with others so morph the energy to form a dragon ,sphinx or human
b.
MP to a magic realm and realise like Alice in Wonderland that one cannot fit ie we are too large to enter the gate .We can bring much more of body presence along than we realise and our body can be huge to elementals . It is crude to swim like a whale with hand sized merpeople so one makes self a seed of light to become smaller to dwell within this realm in syncronicity or morphs to a merperson shape in the correct scale .
c.
MP in a higher plane and be required by the mahatma to stand in presentation as in evaluation. The higher self will suddenly appear without conscious effort on my part as if summoned by mahatma without my recollection . I may anchor consciousness into a puppet master form of higher self . Or I may float and watch teh scene played out connecting to it as needed in communication only .
d.
MP into astral and wanting to interact may form a body part ie energy hands but do not need the fully body.
e.
AP to RTZ get fatigued remain in consciousness there but astral body retreats home while magician continues to RV
f.
I projected an astral double to an RV mate overseas .He sees me and confirms my projection is there while I am awake but in trance here . I move around his room gathering RV data trying to see people , walls , layout , furniture . But when I try to type this info to my partner , I find I cannot use my fingers so I must float back into body remaining in trance and leaving split consciousness there to continue viewing while typing .

I did do a FB AP once,essentially it felt like i was streching a beam of energy connecting me to my body as i started to walk on the floor,it was extreamly dense and physical,i got as far as the door before i felt the tension pull me back into my body.Whereas , when it comes to mental projection i have in the past just floated right out within meditation
Well Done ! I am impressed . It is much harder to walk within a projection than to float . I still find walking on the floor hard to do in a projection perhaps it is because I am lazy and have not practiced it enough . I seem to float as if in a standing position or fly or swim prone .

You are correct that it requires more concentration and physical effort to sustain an astral double and that one can slip out mentally .But when you sit in circle with a group of people in meditation you will see that there is an energy that comes out of the brow centre or crown even in MP .

As teachers of meditation , we look to see the students leave the body to see who requires help and to confirm this to those who feel they never went anywhere at all . The part that slips out in MP is a smaller version of us . It is about an infant size and is greeny white . It is a paisley shaped cloud with a face . I am curiously amused that I have not seen this in print before and I wonder that other mystics have not described it .

Conversely, the part that vibes out in an AP comes from the male tan tien .It peels off like a banana and is an astral double full size . It will be rose if female , sapphire if male.If the projector has a strong well developed energy body it will come away in skin colour with all limbs and a fully identifiable face like a ghost .

Astral Bob is a split apart of Robert Bruce . Robert says that he is not usually aware of where this one wanders but has on occasion connected with him at my home in class . Astral Bob looks like a younger Robert and always walks in . He puts his arms across his chest and prefers to stand smoking a pipe by the fire place . Many people from overseas project to class but they usually float down the ceiling and sit in chairs . Robert is disciplined , formal and polite .

Robert is remarkable in that he walks within projection when he is consciously projecting too . I first met Robert online . He began projecting to me in courtship . He first came to my home in a cobalt blue silhouette which walked in the door to my study and continued walking across the floor to stand beside me at the computer placing his hand upon my shoulder . He was the first live projector I had seen .

Since then I have seen him project in full body colour on occasion but he still walks into rooms by the door . So he is remarkable in his control and his awareness of the physical parameters . And I am amused that his Astral Bob is also polite and waits at the door to "ask" if he may enter or he nods his head and smiles before walking to the fireplace .

Other live projectors that come to my home consciously float thru the ceiling and seem to be waist up only like a blue paisley if male or a rose paisley if female . Often they are armless too . So a chest neck and closed eyed face appears in a curve shape resembling a paisley that is coloured by their gender as rose for female or sapphire for male .
Their entire form is a solid colour but like b&w tv has definition by darks and light ,shades and tones . It is often difficult to determine who the projector is because their face is not developed well YET .In time we learn what position each one chooses to sit at in class and this helps to identify them .Their faces develop more as they sit there with the energy from the circle building them up .

When I read online sometimes a sitter will project unconsciously thru the computer and can be seen as a sleeping form hung as if upon a clothes hanger . Their eyes will be closed in a monochromatic paisley shape which will stand upon my right side floating . I feel these are the sitters immature undeveloped astral split aparts which will in time become astral bobs of their own . They leave us to learn without our conscious recall... at this stage anyway .

Recently when attacked in astral , I crawled away on injured legs so I morphed my arms into Star Wars type insectoid alien legs which came from the shoulder to the ground . I was nearly awake and it would have been best to pop back to body altogether .So watching this ,my response amused me .Even though my body had sustained physical pain from the attack , part of me was still watching it curiously like a movie . I have been splitting consciousness in lucid dreams lately like Freewaru wrote also . What I mean to demonstrate here is that LD AP and MP can come together too .

Rather than limit the description of projections to MP or AP we need the term OBE to describe those projections where we project within a higher light body or within a projection we use a combination of techniques.

Aunt Clair,
I love this visual. I would like to hear more of your experiences in your meditation classes. Fascinating!!

"Astral Bob is a split apart of Robert Bruce . Robert says that he is not usually aware of where this one wanders but has on occasion connected with him at my home in class . Astral Bob looks like a younger Robert and always walks in . He puts his arms across his chest and prefers to stand smoking a pipe by the fire place . Many people from overseas project to class but they usually float down the ceiling and sit in chairs . Robert is disciplined , formal and polite ."

[Aunt Clair]

Aunt Clair,
I love this visual. I would like to hear more of your experiences in your meditation classes. Fascinating!!
K :) thanks don't mind if I do .....
When I was just beginning as a mystic, I was married to Robert Bruce . He witnessed my children APing at night unconsciously and often commented that he did not see me about in the astral much . The astral trips I did recall had been assisted pull outs as a kid myself . I enjoyed precognitive dreams , psychometry , spontaneous rv and clairvoyance but I could not MP at will or even meditate for long . I could not settle long enough to AP at all .

Robert taught me methods to achieve meditative trance but he must have been so disappointed in me as a student . Robert could easily enter a deep meditative trance and would meditate daily. Often he would meditate a few times each day . When we waited somewhere , he could just pop right out , even in a hot car . He did not seem to understand my lack of discipline . I could not meditate anywhere and anytime like he did , then . Even after our divorce , I continue to try to show him I can do it too :) .

So I began to work seriously . I began to meditate regularly in a developmental circle and found MP so much easier than AP . Robert cajoled me saying I was only projecting consciousness and not projecting out of the body . I could not AP by will and that was because I was not strong enough in my energy body yet. It was good natured prompting and it made me try harder.

Last year , Robert was delayed coming home to Australia because his international tour was extended to a film session in UK . Our son was disappointed as they had planned some time together which had to be rescheduled .So I wanted to speak to Robert and find out when they could meet. But he was very busy and could not be reached by email hopping planes and jumping international borders .

At that time , I had just come to the stage of kundalini which manifests as a half circle of cobras on each tan tien . Robert had long ago completed that stage . Robert had written that each cobra could be named for a person ie a student or mentor .

The magician can choose to follow the named cobra which would point to where that person was and allow the magician to connect to the named one instantly by following the energy cord . So I named a cobra for Robert Bruce and tried his technique , not knowing where in the world he was as his itinerary had been altered .

I found him immediately!. He was dressed in a red hockey shirt and mask carrying a hockey stick . He told me I was not protected well . I usually astral in a gown like dress without shoes and had no "armour" on . So I came back with a pair of hockey skates , carrying a stick and said "can I play now ?" I was being silly and wanted to show him that I could play the game as a lady and did not need protective gear . I was not afraid and I could control projections enough to find him . So I woke excitedly to email him and confirm my proof .

Weeks later , he confirmed he was in Canada with a mate who played hockey professionally in a red uniform. He wrote "Cat you still have it that was a great psychic link". Robert could not believe that I had managed to AP with control . I was disappointed because he did not remember us meeting in astral and he thought it was a dream through a psychic link . I needed him to recall me being there in astral though .

That has not happened yet . It can seem so important for students to be recognised by a mentor as a worthy peer in any area of study . It is a way of achieving verification . But this goes beyond that . I feel it is harder still to be recognised as a female mystic . Lately I see the gender divisions more clearly .

There are huge differences in the natural abilities of female and male mystics . I believe that the ease in which mystics develop skills can be predicted by gender and that Mystics tend to develop skills in a predictable continuum ....with some exceptions of course .

This is a suggested hierarchy of skills listed by
by those earliest developed and most easily attained
to those developed later and the most advanced skills ;

Females........................... Male
psychic intuition.................analysis
empathic...........................spiritual defense
clairvoyance......................psionics
clairaudience ....................morphing
healing .............................manifestation
energy body awareness .....energy body strength
MP................................... AP

I am not suggesting that male and female mystics can not attain all of these skills . I believe all humans can attain this basic list. I just see patterns in their ease of acquisition . I believe that older mystics naturally begin to develop their yin or their yang skills .So these differences in gender blur over time with increased development .

And I wonder if these gender differences are even applicable to younger students who were born above the indigo vibration . But that remains to be seen .

I continue to be disappointed that the many aware dragons I read online are typically male teenagers . Where are the females teenagers ? When I find a female dragon they are usually over 40 . I feel that just as many females are dragons and wonder why I do not see them . Are they less present online ? Are they more introverted ? Do they avoid stepping up to the plate because they are not interested in collaboration or is it competition they avoid ? Are females less curious or less interested in spirituality ? I am not sure . But I will never be convinced that they are less capable .

Robert feels we naturally have more time at 14 years old when we are old enough to think as an adult but young enough to not have partners , work or university study to get in the way and that this wanes as we grow to become young adults . He says that this interest returns as time allows when we become mature adults our own kids are leaving home or we have retired . I think this has validity but does not explain the propensity for APing that boys have .

I met a group of three female teenage dragons here locally through my own daughters aged 17 and 18.They are clairvoyant , they can MP. They recall dreamstate lessons.Their energy body is the same as their male peers. But they do not like forums or development circle.They don't like to meditate . They met once a week in a wiccan circle for 3 years but now they don't do that . They are interested in the physical world solely since they graduated high school . Is this typical ?

What makes boys so much more interested in spiritual progress ? Are there an equal number of female dragons as I suspect ? And are they much less interested now because of their age . Do women come into spirituality later in life ?

When I first begin to go to spiritual circles in 1997 , there were only women there . This has not changed . Women are in the vast majority at circles and they are typically 30 to 40 years old . Younger ones come to class with parents but rarely stay . When a male does rock up he will know nothing . He cannot meditate yet . He cannot see yet . He cannot project in MP or AP . But if he sticks around a little while , he soon becomes the star of the show . He typically becomes the best psychic and can project much better with more recall than his female peers. Why ?

I remain curious about the obvious gender differences and wonder if there will continue to be obvious gender differences in mystics in the young adults pf this next generation.

[Akashic_Librarian]

Perhaps this male "Superiority" (Although I do think gender is, on a higher level, irrelevant) is the root of the belief that Women are subservient to men and men are "Power-holders" Just a thought.

Aunt Clair, as an answer your many questions I believe that Females are more socially conscious and to become a Mystic at a young age in the modern world would mean you lose alot of 'street cred' and most people rely on this kind of support to survive...As an example i know a few girls at my school who get upset if someone they know doesnt say "Hi" in the morning, they take it as an insult, perhaps this is why, although I don't profess to know and it is only a theory...

Aunt Clair,
I don't know if this will help the understanding or not, as I can only speak of the people that I have known. I think Akashic L. made a really good point about females being more socially conscious. They are very much in to what they look like (driven by magazines with unreachable heights of beauty for the average person). They are very concerned with male peers and the competition to "hook up". Much of this is driven by biology and the need to find a mate. In my experience, the young women who are able to transcend these pressures have been forced to look at life on a deeper level due to some trauma that has happened in their young life. When everything is going pretty great, why bother thinking about the meaning of life or spiritual issues. Older women have seen a lot more sorrow and are not concerned with finding a mate (of course, this is a generalization). They have reached a point in their life when their kids are older or gone where they have the time to speculate on their mortality and what that means.

Young males, on the other hand, do not have a biological need to find a partner as soon as possible, since they don't have a biological clock that is ticking. They can put off marriage and children as long as they want. Without that drive, they have the time to discover deeper meanings to life. When they discover psychic abilities, APing, etc. their natural drive to compete kicks in to become the best. Women are happier when they can be or stay on the level that their friends are. As Aka. Lib. said, socialization is much more important to women. The drive to become the best is much more important to males. Of course, all of this is generalization and doesn't account for every person's individuality. But, this is what I have observed as I have been working with teenagers since my early 20's.

[workinprogress]

I think Akashic L. made a really good point about females being more socially conscious. They are very much in to what they look like (driven by magazines with unreachable heights of beauty for the average person). They are very concerned with male peers and the competition to "hook up". Much of this is driven by biology and the need to find a mate.

Not sure if this is generational or not, but I tend to disagree. When I was a kid, I was never in to dating, actually even in college I was never in to dating or finding a mate. I dated 1 guy for 1 month my senior year of high school and that was it. I had a few 'friend' dates with guys, but I never saw the point in dating for the sake of dating. And if I didn't see a long term relationship with a guy, why bother to date him? In college, the same thing, I dated one guy for about a month and that was it. Then I met my husband (blind date no less). Most of my female friends were somewhat like what you describe, but not quite to the extreme that you imply.

While I realize you were stating a generalization, I do agree that there is a lot of pressure on woman from a physical/materialistic standpoint. Even once you grow up and have a husband and children, if you work there is a lot of contradictory messages about working women, full-time moms, what's the right balance, how do you physically look after you have kids, etc.

My philosophy has always been to do what feels right for you as an individual. I work full-time and have 3 kids. But I have been telecommuting for 9 years. This gives me the flexibility to take them to school, be home with them in the afternoons, be home during the day if they get sick at school, etc. And for me it wasn't a compromise about the type fo work I do. I was fortunate enough be with a company as a startup, and negotiated the fact that I needed to telecommute. The company grew to 2,000 employees and I rose to VP of a division. I did all of this while the company's corporate office was about 3,000 miles away.

While there, I often had other women ask me how I did it. They always felt this pressure to stay late, sacrifice their family or personal time/lives for the company. But I always had the opposite view. I repeatedly told women that their family comes first. If there is a meeting or project and the client or boss wants it that night and you have to leave, you explain that you need to leave at 5, but you can start it first thing in the morning. Most woman are SO afraid to come out and say this and I never understood why. I have repeatedly moved client meetings to times that worked better for me and my family. And I always explained to the client (usually all men) about my kids and they would always understand and we usually ended up spending a few minutes comparing how many kids we have, their ages, sex, interests, etc.

But women in general tend to not feel that they should ask to be accomadated. It is almost like they don't feel they are worth being taken in to consideration. Now, obviously this is also a generalization. And its interesting because the women I've noticed who don't feel this way are the ones in management and upper corporate positions. Whereas the woman who do feel like this, like they are afraid for their jobs if they speak up, are always in lower level positions.

As is the case in magic and mysticism, I think females in general embody the water element. They are passive, compromising, self-sacrificing, nurturing. Women who have a strong fire element out-going, confident, the A-type personalities. Women often times think that they have to talk or act like men in order to be accepted by them and treated as equal. And while this type of behaviour is viewed as acceptable in men, its usually seen as 'bitchy' in women. It tends to cause resentment from both male and female co-workers/friends as well.

I don't think a woman needs to be one or the other though. As with anything in life or spirituality, balance is the key. There are pros and cons to each character type/trait. The trick is walking the fine line that balances the best of each one.

Hmm, looking back through my post I seemed to have strayed a bit, but actually not too far from the topic.

To bring this all back to the point at hand, I don't think women are less interested in spirituality than men. I think the differences between the genders is seen throughout life and applies to spirituality the same as it applies to daily activities. I think men by nature are more outgoing and tend to go after answers. I think women are interested and want to know, but they don't necessarily feel worthy -- although worthy isn't the right word. Its as if they need to believe in themselves first. And even then, I think women by nature are more introspective. I don't think they are as outspoken as men and therefore while they may have wonderful experiences, they may not be as open to sharing them for various reasons. I think this may be the reason you don't see or hear from many females regarding spirituality.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

[CFTraveler]

Aunt Clair wrote:
What makes boys so much more interested in spiritual progress ? Are there an equal number of female dragons as I suspect ? And are they much less interested now because of their age . Do women come into spirituality later in life ?
When I first begin to go to spiritual circles in 1997 , there were only women there . This has not changed . Women are in the vast majority and they are typically 30 to 40 years old . Younger ones come to class with parents but rarely stay . When a male does rock up he will know nothing . He cannot meditate yet . He cannot see yet . He cannot project in MP or AP . But if he sticks around a little while , he soon becomes the star of the show . He typically becomes the best psychic and can project much better with more recall than his female peers. Why ?
I remain curious about the obvious gender differences and wonder if there will continue to be obvious gender differences in mystics in the young adults .
I tried to answer this yesterday but after 1/2 hour of typing, the kitty turned off my computer, and I took it as a sign to let it go. But today I'm back. So let's see:
When I was young, I had many spontaneous OBEs, guided AP's precognitive dreams, shared dreams, and other phenomena. At 11 there was some poltergeist activity around me, and at 12 My dad would hypnotize me ala Edgar Cayce & I would answer questions. At that young time, I had no idea how to develop anything, and was actually interested in doing it. So I taught myself 'deep breathing' and 'staying awake as long as possible' without knowing what it was for. I just liked doing it. There were other things that were 'different' about me- If I ever lied, my lie would come true, which then caused me to never lie again, unless it was a 'wishful thinking lie'. (not ethics-driven, just convenience and fear). When I was about 16 and in college, I had an incident with a teacher, which made me very angry, and I wished him a very specific ill. That night I found out he was ill with the specific illness I wished him. That spooked me to the point of thinking that I had to be very guarded in my thoughts. This happened to me other times, which intimidated me because even though it could be a series of coincidences, I still didn't want to take the chance of being the perpretrator of any crime, even if only in my mind. So at a young (teenage) age, I decided I wasn't ready for Power. And that is the crux of the matter here. After my son was born, that changed. Some will know what I'm talking about, but that's another story, not necessary for this one. Another thing is that after my son was born, certain phenomena began to manifest, which led me to look for possible explanations which led me to AD and this site. It was at 47 years old (last year) that I began to seriously consider developing my 'talents' (if I have any), and I can honestly say I was literally dragged kicking and screaming to this. (If you don't know what I'm talking about read my really old posts.) I realize now that I was led to development, and it is something I must do, but I still am having trouble accepting help. I will get over my reluctance, though- those of you that have offered to help me develop don't lose faith!
Anyway, back to topic: I believe also that women (girls) are not socially encouraged to have power, and I think this is the real reason you don't see teenage girls in the spiritual scene- you'll probably see them in churches. I work in a church and you see a lot more teenage girls than boys, and in my opinion it's because a religious setting encourages more instrospection and reflection, instead of a development group, where there is more instruction as to 'what to do'. And I believe this is perceived as receiving or developing power, something which I can relate to being intimidated by, while a male will have no problem accepting or learning about how to use power. Of course, this is my opinion based on my own life experiences, and on being one of these female 'mystics'.
To put it another way: I think women define 'spiritual progress' differently than men do. For a woman it's meditation and prayer, good works, and other 'socially acceptable' roles. For men it's doing: Developing a talent and putting it to use to gain power. Sometimes power over themselves, sometimes power over others, but power.
Now please understand I'm not saying that all women see spirituality one way and all men see it another! I'm saying that we are socialized differently, so we use spirituality differently.

[Aunt Clair]

TY all AL ,WIP ,CT ,and AL for such thoughtful responses.I think we all are on the same page here in that stereotypes and prejudices are not what we want to examine or promote . Rather , we have observed patterns that are thought provoking and we naturally consider why such patterns might exist . I remain curious as to whether it might be social conditioning or gender preferences that contributes most to such patterns....But now back to our regularly scheduled program Kundalini Dynamics :oops: Back to you WorkinProgress tell us more about the silver cord error , please.

When I read this, I had my doubts. I have read numerous places that the etheric/astral body seperates naturally during sleep. I have personally experienced natural OBE's during sleep. Wouldn't it be dangerous for a husband and wife to sleep together then? If one of them touches the other while sleeping, the person would die.
Good Point . The last lesson in IIH is possible "Power over Life and Death "when the body is not damaged and is leaving prematurely due to a temporary shock , loss of bp or other such temporary cardiovascular impairment. My husband Bill has terminal heart disease and died a few times upon the table and a few times not there yet . He is still with us but once after the surgery he turned blue beside me in bed and I was partially woken by an angel who instructed me to put my energy arms through Bill's back to call him back to his body and to pull upon the cord .It seemed like a rope in my hands and very sturdy . I was lucid and not fully awake so perhaps I could argue with myself or others that might wish to lol that I dreamt it all but I don't think so . I will look that up in the journal . It seems to me that Franz Bardon instructed upon this . So will get back to this too after some research .

This is assuming that the Etheric body is the same as the Astral body. Bardon never mentions the etheric body though. He only mentions the mental body and astral body.
This is another good point . There is AP and MP but what about the higher plane projections which cannot be called AP ?These are above the Astral
and can involve the projection of a body so they are not MP so we default to the rather ambiguous term OBE and that is not good enough . So Work inProgress you note another place to pick up where FB left off .

So my other thought was that maybe we are using different terms. Perhaps what we do in the astral is use our mental bodies, to use Bardon's language.
I am sure we may use either Mental Body or Astral Body in the Astral but that the true constraints come above the Astral . The Astral Body is the full double , the physical look alike that vibes up from the Male Tan Tien and peels off . This is heavy as you described and though wonderfully interactive can not be taken above the Astral . BUT suppose we can continue to empower the human energy body until we can take a more advanced subtle body layered energy body ie the Atmic Body to the Atmic plane and interact as we do in Astral ? You propose real thought provoking ideas here . What is the difference ? What are the true constraints ? If we continue to expand the power of the human energy body will we transcend beyond the limitations at the time of Franz Bardon's life ? Will these higher vibration times really lead us to new frontiers in projection ?

And he states that this danger isn't present when traveling in the mental body. And perhaps what he calls the astral body is different and more difficult to do. One which the people currently astral traveling haven't advanced far enough to do, so it hasn't been a danger.
I feel here that he means the same as we do today by the Astral Body but you got me going on this so I am going to re read and try to discover more . Thank you so much WIP for very good thread here and I apologise to all on AD for the brief derailment :oops: it was not intentional .

workinprogress & CF,
Yeh, that, too!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: Good posts!

[workinprogress]

There is AP and MP but what about the higher plane projections which cannot be called AP ?These are above the Astral
and can involve the projection of a body so they are not MP so we default to the rather ambiguous term OBE and that is not good enough .

I'm not really sure of what terms to use for what. I do know from what I have read, numerous sources report an etheric plane (I believe also called the real time zone), which is one level of vibration up from the physical. In this realm one uses his etheric body, which I equate to an OBE. The next level is supposed to be the astral and is also one degree/vibration above the etheric. I believe the mental plane is one degree/vibrational step above the astral, but don't quote me on that.

Some say that there are 3 main planes, others break down to seven, and others state that each plane blends into one another such that there is no true line differentiating one from another. So instead of going from black to white, you go from black, to dark grey, and slightly dark grey, then medium grey, etc until you get to white. The transitions are subtle and difficult to percieve if one is not aware enough to sense the differences. But each source I have read states that you have a body for each plane and that each body must remain on that plane. So an astral body can't be used in the physical or the mental, only the astral. So my guess is that if there are other planes, then we would have a body for them. The trick is advancing enough (meaning ennobling the soul such that it can vibrate at the higher rates) to be able to reach those planes and be able to return with the memories.

Interestingly enough my experiences with the planes vary from what I had thought they would be based on descriptions like the above. For example when I am in my etheric body I feel very light and floaty. Walking, which I can do easily enough, is more like walking on the moon. I can take steps, but they seem lighter and bouncy. Colors tend to be whitish and washed out.

Whereas when I am in the astral plane, I have a body but it feels more solid than the etheric one. Solid in the sense that I when I walk, I feel as if I walk in the physical. I don't get the light and bouncy sensation. And everything is MUCH more coloful than in the physical and also quite solid and stable. Its like the etheric and astral planes are opposites to one another in many aspects and given the proximity of the etheric to the physical, one would expect to have the experiences reversed. I'm not sure what the other planes are like, but it seems that FB was only describing the astral and mental planes, at least that's the way I was interpreting it.



What is the difference ? What are the true constraints ? If we continue to expand the power of the human energy body will we transcend beyond the limitations at the time of Franz Bardon's life ? Will these higher vibration times really lead us to new frontiers in projection ?


My current thoughts are that each level/plane expands consciousness and breaks down limitations. I think this applies to interactions in that plane and may have implications on the physical and other planes if one is able to retain the vibrations needed to remain aware of that level of consciousness. To me, its like a bunch of veils covering the mind/consciousness. If one can succesfully remove a veil, not just peak past it and have it drop again, but completely remove it, then one is able to be aware of that level of consciousness regardless of the plane they are currintly in. The problem with this, though, is being able to successfully integrate what they perceive and apply it as needed in the physical. I think this is something that is done very gradually and must be earned at each stage.

I do think that at some point we reach a stage of experiencing omniscience and omnipotence. But I don't beleive we'll be able to retain that in the physical.

Certainly nothing I expect to experience in this lifetime, but who knows in a few more lives I may begin to get some glimpses.

[SetiAmon]

Hello Aunt Clair I haven't been on recently but i'm back.
Your experiences are much broader then mine but I'v also been attacked astrally.Once i was out i felt this black thing jump at me and rip me in half(not a comfortable feeling).infact about a dozen times i felt myself "die" in the astral to the point i also question bardons assessment of the dangers.

as for visiting the elementals bardon says that one has to fill ones mental body with the element,to become a gnome etc so to speak to interact on that realm,but one thing he said also disturbed me was that if you initiate conversation etc you might be basically jumped on and imprison,and become forever a "gnome" etc.Is this emphisis on danger just a romantic(although oldfashion) dramatization of danger by bardon?like getting lost in the abyss etc etc.

So far the way i look at it is that there is two polarities,material and spirituality and that the "body" astral body that is is the manifested medium between spirit and the realm so it would be natural to manifest in any realm with a fitting body,This physical world being native having more density and "realness" then others,how does your experience corrospond to this theory?

As for danger on the astral,its awekward as I initially experienced severe situations,for instance once when i was just messing around with ceramonial magick i began to see shadow figures around the house all day(with holes in them like they were injured) then later on when i was replicating the ritual a black figure floated in with no lower extremities and its arms extended and came right up to me at which point i closed my eyes and freaked out praying etc,it basically pushed on my right side and at the point were I started praying it burst,or something happend because i felt like something hit me with a sledge hammer or more precise that I was a body of water that a rock was thrown in i felt my body like a wave moving up and down crashing here and there emphisising the energy system as it spiraled up and down.after that i got out of it all for awhilea nd reentered on the grounds of raja yoga

one of my first and most severe "attacks" was when i was first practicing monroe's oob method with some basic new age books,chakra meditation,before I could even feel energy and the like and I developed a strong case of anxiety(something i'm sure most are familiar with) i felt like and feared that there was always something near me,and one night i felt like my energy was depressed and something manifested before me while i was sitting down,it looked like a giant black figure with horns like antlers(the tips were faded out of existence,transparent like,as were the area from beneath the ankel) it just sat there and looked at me for aminute and i didn't react,then about a day later i had a migrain that lasted for 3 months and sent me to the hospital which cleared up eventuall and i'v never had reoccure,weird isn't it?

the thing is that in all my negative experiences became more and more gradual as my fear decayed,i started aping etc and never saw anything negative at all,i'v almost come to the conclusion that all the negative entities i encountered were either manifestations of my own fear or at least using fear as the medium in which to effect me,last time i saw something negative was a black 'aura' with many black "flies" around it and it took off running when i went up to it oddly.its just my theory that most of these things are manifestations of ones own fear or other beings fears i should say.


the astral body seems to constantly regenerate due to the circulation of energy between the pole of the spirit and that of the body,as once i had my "arm" ripped off and that area felt weak I circulated energy threw it threw directed breathing and it became whole again,I was performing something like NEW long before i ever heard of robert bruce and feel his work corresponds probably the closest to my experiences as anyone i'v encountered,However i have no were near the control that he does as i can't seem to project at will,usually i have to induce a trance and then from that state push or focus myself outward


as for the issue of kundalini i had something like a kundalini awakening 10 years ago after a energy transfer,it felt like my head was going to explode for awhile,however i'v come to belive that the kundalini is the natural flow of energy from the mental body to the physical,i feel the profound experiences are due to blockages and narrow energy pathways becaus as my energy system has expanded the "Crushing pressure" has eased off greatly,

Infact about a year ago i was in meditation on my hara and i felt a pearl of energy move up from my left side of my physical body and move in a stright path upward slowly but radiating outward threw the channel waves of energy (like lotus petals?) and when it hit the left side of my skull illuminated bright blue and caused a clockwork spiral inside of my head,later one i had a trance were i saw white smoke coming out of a hole on the left side of my head and it seels that the energy burnt a hole threw there.The right side though is dense and inert and i'v been working agressivly to loosen it up and such.

I Initially got into this about 10 years ago because i had spontanious trances i would be pulled into which i experienced for years,as i'v intergrated thouse "deeper layers" of conciousness into present conciousness or awareness they have stoped but...


Well i got to go someone is banging on the door I'll ttyAl

[SetiAmon]

Back

As for kundalini as i was saying earlier,i experienced a trance state in which i experienced several kundalini-like experiences in the past

One time I was simple relaxing on the couch and i saw a white ball behind my eyes moving left and right and i fallowed it till it suddenly centered and "grabed" me my entire body jerked and it began to spral clockwise and pull at me,my body was paralyized and i felt this things pull draw energy up from the back of my neck up the brainstem to the base of my skull then slowly disperse it,the pressure was immense i felt like my brains would explode..
I struggled to break the lock and gained a mere second between this vortexes pulls,i first opened my eyes then i moved my finger and then it let go and i always wondered if i just submited to the vortexes pull what would have happend,would IT be a good thing or a bad thing and such.

another kundalini-like experience i had was several years ago I simple started meditating by recalling my deep mind that i had contacted years ago when i was pulled into a trance and let go Instead of struggling,I plumited down into myself untill i "tore" threw the densest layer of pressure which was acompanied by a growl and then entered a dimensionless space where I had only the slightest outline of a mental body which i could move around in the infinite darkness with ease.It felt like i was at the bottom of a deep ocean and i was aware above me was my mind with its layers of thought active.Anyhow back to the point after "touching" this deep layer I have always been aware of its existense,like a part of me still remains there and i associate it physically with the back of the skull,Anyhow once i tried simple to recall it for hours then i blacked out and was in a black trance but I felt my mental or astral body detached from my physical,well just my legs and torso was floating up above me like a towel in the wind were my head was still attached to my physical head,anyhow instead of trying to AP i focused in my body and suddenly a feeling of intense pain and molten steel emerged from the coaxxyl area and slowly traveled down my legs and up to my sub-naval storage area,kind of like a upside down Y
I stoped this experiment because i felt a great deal of pain..

But in all my "kundalini" experiences I'v come to belive that "kundalini" is just energy,that infact it is the obstructions that give it its "substance" its intensity,as it pushes aginst obstructions the resistence gives it its charecter,I feel that infact the "kundalini" flows threw all bodies and has a uniqe feel in each body...

generally as i see it it emerges from conciousness threw the mental body central shaft and its system,then threw the mental matrix(as bardon would put it) that connects and feeds it to the astral body,which then goes threw the main shaft then again threw the astral matrix into the physical,I also feel from sketches of my experiences that the astral body kundalini and physical differ somewhat,The astral body is more spiraly,more tangled and the physical body seems much more stright

for instance the astral body energy system seems to move around a lot and tangle up in the classic double helix of the ida and pingali of the indian system,were as the physical energy system seems to literally run stright like the sciatic nerve up and down the left and right side of the body like pillars.
this made me come to belive that the astral body is almost like a compacitor or tesla coil,it retains and regulates the energy from and to the physical body to prevent it from being damaged,I'm not sure how close to correct I am,what is your experience related to this aunt clair?


I should also say that normally,constantly I feel energy moving up my left side and down the right,and at the same time i feel it spiraling inside my body in a clockwork fashion around and in it.I'v tried reversing it but can'treally,sometimes it reverses itself.

[Aunt Clair]

i felt myself "die" in the astral to the point i also question bardons assessment of the dangers.
ouch ! That is shocking .

as for visiting the elementals bardon says that one has to fill ones mental body with the element,to become a gnome etc so to speak to interact on that realm,
After a time that is no longer necessary . I have taken mates to the magical realms . They can also see the elementals without this procedure . Our Alchemy Circle did use FB's procedure to get there originally. I have never been threatened by any elemental , so I cannot speak to his ideas about being coered or forced to stay.

Yesterday we met the Salamander Queen . She invited each of 3 of us to sit upon her throne and wear a skin headress of her ancestor queen which had spirit eyes that glowed like jewels . When I wore it the ancestor appeared and spoke about calling a fresh spirit back to a non shattered vessel and suggested 3 techniques . This was the first time I had been able to speak to a salamander . The other elementals were easier to converse with and they do offer magical techniques as FB wrote .


Is this emphisis on danger just a romantic(although oldfashion) dramatization of danger by bardon?I feel you are right here and that there is not as much danger as he suggests . But I do believe as RB writes that a severe attack in astral can cause physical and pain on the earthly plane . So protect , work in light , have faith .

as for the issue of kundalini i had something like a kundalini awakening 10 years ago after a energy transfer,it felt like my head was going to explode for awhile,
I suggest from your experiences that you have had more than one K phenomenal event and will read you if you like on msn messenger .

however i'v come to belive that the kundalini is the natural flow of energy from the mental body to the physical,
I feel that the natural flow should be called psi or chi and that the raising of kundalini at will by the magician is to call this psi into already activated circuits which the kundalini has opened and to manifest this into a short lived kundalini energised session . That is not the same as a kundalini phenomena when mother comes to call and crashes through the body at her own will without a possibility of being controlled by the magician .

i was in meditation on my hara and i felt a pearl of energy move up from my left side of my physical body and move in a stright path upward slowly but radiating outward threw the channel waves of energy (like lotus petals?) and when it hit the left side of my skull illuminated bright blue and caused a clockwork spiral inside of my head,later one i had a trance were i saw white smoke coming out of a hole on the left side of my head and it seels that the energy burnt a hole threw there.The right side though is dense and inert and i'v been working agressivly to loosen it up and such.
This sounds like an internal cleansing or purging of blocks . I feel you would be relieved to do the same procedure on the other side . The magician often opens right side then left side or top then bottom . This is left side first suggesting that there was a need for healing there .

Interesting experiences , thanks for sharing .

[SetiAmon]

I don't have msn messanger or anything like that,i'm actually barrowing a friends computer whenever i can and he won't let me install anything on it(another guy installed something which infected his comp with a virus etc,paranoid now etc)

But if you want to read me from here i have a yahoo e-mail at setiamon@yahoo.com I would actually be very interested in what you find do to all the excercises and such i'v implemented over the years.

I haven't been able to completly clear the right hip for some reason the only energy that can move by is a small stream,i can even touch were the blockage is at but no matter how much excercise or work i do it won't break,some can temporary loosen it like basic streches.

well anyhow about kundalini on the general conversation,most of the time i just get little upshoots of energy,sharp.I see them as streaks of white fire with my eyes closed(some kind of clairavoyence?)

is white fire associated with kundalini?