Psychosis or Enlightenment?

[Jananz]

Have you noticed in yourself or others the tendency to approach kundalini or ORMUS with the hunger and power drive of the ego...I don't sense any of that here, but I read the Red Lion by Maria Szepes in which she exquisitely portrays this lust for immortality and all-knowing. Do you think that it might be a stage in the beginning rungs of the alchemical ladder that we all must go through? Perhaps it balls down to our capacity to understand and realize why we are living in the first place...once we get a true gnostic thread as to who we are and what we are to do in life, our purpose in the larger scheme of things, I think that this radical hunger for power, eternal life and importance probably drops off as we skillfully exercise our true calling. I sketched out some possible signs as to what to look for in someone who has slipped into personal greed with regards to alchemy and spirituality...what do you all think? I would love to hear your additions to the following list, (and if I may add them and use them on my site)


Psychotic Imbalance: involves delusions of grandeur, inability to speak in plain language, obsession with religious and occult symbology and iconography, tendency to adopt third person language, insists that one is channeling very special entities from the past or future or other planets, claim to be a reincarnated special person, fixation on conspiracies, fixation on having the "answer" or the "secret," fixation on the "power" aspect of alchemy or spirituality, dire need to be important and seen, invested in persuading others, possible messiah complex.

[Tom]

"It's not, like, your `higher self' you're talking about, right? You're not saying..."

"I understand. No. It has nothing to do with the hierarchy of souls, or the different planes of consciousness, or higher and lower self and all that. From the seat in the audience I'm describing, everybody is on stage, whether they're in a body or not in a body, on the physical plane or the astral plane or the buddhic plane, whatever. Those are just the broader dimensions of the same dramatic event."

"So if I just became instantly enlightened, right now, just out of the blue..."

"Which, despite countless claims to the contrary, can't happen, but go ahead."

"A lot of people say it does."

"I'm sure they believe it."

"Wait, why can't it happen?"

"When someone says they became enlightened in an instant, they're usually talking about the transformation brought on by a transcendental experience-an experience of mystic union. It's powerful and deeply trans formative-peace, love, bliss and all that-but it's not enlightenment. Enlightenment isn't flashy and it doesn't just occur like an epiphany."

"What about students of Zen? You always hear these stories..."

"Yeah," I think of Jolene, "the bam factor. There's no such thing as instant enlightenment any more than there's such a thing as an instant baby. Storks don't really deliver babies and there's no Enlightenment Fairy hovering over Zen monasteries or anywhere else. It's not too difficult to see how the idea might catch on, but there's only one way a caterpillar becomes a butterfly. No depth of insight into what it's like to be a vampire can ever make you a vampire. In terms of Plato's cave, those who have stared into the fire that illuminates the cave will naturally believe that they've arrived at the source, but the fire is a mere spark of the sun that illuminates all, including the mountain that houses the cave."

"Damn," she says, and then takes on a sly look. "Has it ever occurred to you that you might be, uh, what's a good way to say it? Mentally unsound?"

I laugh. "Insane? It's about time somebody asked. Well, let's think about it. I basically believe that I know everything and nobody else knows anything. I think I'm sane and everyone else is insane. I've never met another like me and I have to search through centuries and civilizations to find anyone similar. The most revered men and women who have ever lived are just children on a playground to me. I think that I know the mind of God, that the universe does my bidding, and that the creation exists for my amusement. By what possible definition of the word am I not insane?"

She just stares at me.

"So," I ask, "what was your question before I interrupted?"

She continues to stare. "I totally forget."

I just laugh.

[Korpo]

Tom,

where is this from - what is the context and who are the speakers? Interesting dialogue. :) Or interview?

Jananz,

interesting question.

From a book about Taoist meditation:


In Taoist meditation, the initial object is to develop as much energy as possible, but not for the purpose of obtaining power. A desire for psychic (or paranormal) power is what in early stagesof meditation usually traps individuals - they become energy junkies. My teacher Liu put it very well. He said you would be better off with a vicious, self-destructive heroin or opium habit because then you would only need the opium; as soon as one life is over, the drug addiction is finished. But if you get addicted to psychic energy, the desire for that energy will endure for countless rebirths. Such addiction will not be something that you will be able to drop with the life that initiated the habit - it goes with you.

In Taoist practices, a tremendous amount of energy has to be developed inside the body in order for that energy to be converted to spirit. As your spirit fills, it is important that you start to realize the facts about the directions life can take, because when your spirit increases, you naturally gain what is known in the West as "personal power".

Through Taoist meditation, you can gather tremendous power, which is often not obvious to others. If you stay focused on this power your spirit will never convert to emptiness. Being stuck on power is considered "the big trap." As a matter of fact, virtually every esoteric tradition in the world holds that "the big trap" is to crave power. The character of the practitioner must be developed so he or she can willingly struggle with this problem and move beyond this trap.

[...]

During the first level of Taoist water method meditation, people spend a long time learning to become what Taoists call "mature human beings", meaning individuals who can assume responsibility for themselves, who do not avoid consequences by ascribing their own motivations to others. If you lack maturity when you start moving into the world of spirit, you can become power mad remain hooked on power. In order to become free, you must throw away whatever power and it benefits you have previously accumulated.

The ego of people who acquire psychic power before they are mature enough to handle it often inflates beyond belief.

[...]

In the spiritual world, if you obtain power before you have worked out the dark sides of your immature ego, trouble can come your way. You may temporarily get away with all sorts of nonsense, as many gurus do, but when you fall, you become less than what you were before all your years of practice.(Bruce Frantzis, "Relaxing Into Your Being")


Frankly said, I am of the opinion that there is a lot of this around. It's a personal belief of mine that a lot of martial-arts-based practices can lead to this since they promise power. You can develop this power through sheer force of will and endless practice, but that will not evolve you as a person. It can produce people that have tremendous power and still have the moodish whims of a child. I see a certain danger in that, for them and others.

If you promise power as result of your practice or teachings, this draws those people inclined to fall into the trap like moths to a flame. I'm also suspicious of people who teach energy practices without showing that there are possible side effects - like when you are not grounded properly. Ungrounded practices are in general are often marketed to give "quick results", but they precisely leave the foundation work out you need to do to handle the "powers" you acquire in a mature and responsible way.

Energy work can balance or imbalance a personality, depending on intent and approach. Ungrounded energy work with the aim of obtaining power quick can unbalance your character, even while increasing the power of "keeping the lid on". Fighting the symptoms so that the inner problems appear to be resolved. You are not relaxed within, you just have iron-strong control. No control is perfect. There will be outbursts. The stuff that is kept inside festers and becomes nastier. A mind can be silent on its own accord, relaxed and naturally at peace, or you can will your mind silent, with force, which will not free you, but help you repress so effectively that the problem goes completely out of view.

Today many practices are taught without the original stringent requirements that were once made to the qualification of the practitioner. Masters would let apprentices do very basic things for years before even considering them ready for anything more special. Lots of people would never be taught the "inner secrets" and not even know. This avoided effectively a lot of the problems, as most power-hungry apprentices would be weeded out long before that. "Esoteric" means "inner knowledge" - like in "inner circle". Only the most developed apprentices would be included in the inner circles of a tradition, the core of each sect and school. Some mystical schools would require scholars to be 40 or older, assuming a certain amount of maturity would have developed through working, raising children, see them grow up, facing the hardships of life and becoming aware of the fact that you will die.

The supermarket of esoteric knowlegde we have today has removed those stringent requirements, potentially enabling more people to gain from them. But on the other hand, the responsibility now rests on the shoulders of each individual, no longer on the master's, to decide what you are ready for. A lot of full-blown egos around, no doubt - searching for the "secret", the final trick, the ultimate shortcut to enlightenment, the most extreme practice. They are easy to spot, and some modern-day masters are also easy to spot either by their teachings or what students they attract. Moths to the flame.

Oliver

[Tom]

There are two great teachers to whom I will always be grateful. Jed McKenna is one of them and I quoted a section from his first book. The other teacher is neither famous nor published, and I met him because we worked at the same grocery store for a time. If ever I have had an impulse to bow at anyone's feet it is these two, and they would both be disgusted to see me do it.

[star]

It really seems to end up that way. Someone I think is that good used to have a silly hair and he acts really goofy.
Anyway, Korpo - I am most definetly an energy junky. I like it alot! Maybe not an energy junky, but the astral sex thing is really good. I wouldn't say its habit forming or addictive, just very enjoyable and feels better than in the physical. But energy is great too, I like to learn how to use it the best to fill up other people or just use it to heal.


Frankly said, I am of the opinion that there is a lot of this around. It's a personal belief of mine that a lot of martial-arts-based practices can lead to this since they promise power. You can develop this power through sheer force of will and endless practice, but that will not evolve you as a person. It can produce people that have tremendous power and still have the moodish whims of a child. I see a certain danger in that, for them and others.

Thats true in some cases but its the opinion of at least one author I read "Dr. Glenn Morris" That those sort of people tend to drop out, he saw it often. Also, he mentioned that the more experienced Martial artists that continued their practice and could respect the other students and instructors end up taming the shadow side or the ego. It sounded true enough anyway.

Hmm, I want power - I have worked with people who have "more of it" than I, it inspired me and I even have people in the astral who contact me, so in order to communicate properly I require more ability or "power" otherwise I can't even interact with these new friends.

And enlightenement was a great idea until it started being scary. Its not so bad now though. Its a mind-thingy. It feels like its not done yet either. If that makes any sense whatsoever. That it started, but hasen't stopped yet.

[CFTraveler]

And never will.

[ButterflyWoman]

And enlightenement was a great idea until it started being scary.
The scariness is an illusion. You're actually perfectly and absolutely safe. I'm sure you probably know and understand this, but I thought I'd say it, anyway.

Not saying you don't feel and perceive it to be frightening, mind you. I know perfectly well that the road can be quite terrifying, particularly if you're not able to easily step outside your own ego (been there, done that, got the t-shirt, though I make no claim to be "enlightened", only to being on the road to... something like it, anyway).


It feels like its not done yet either. If that makes any sense whatsoever. That it started, but hasen't stopped yet.
I don't think I'd better say just how many years I've been dealing with Kundalini Syndrome. I've made enormous leaps in consciousness, and I wouldn't for a moment un-do it, but it's been a long time and at times it has been harrowing, to say the very least. It can certainly take a long time for the lotus to completely unfurl its petals. Perhaps they're infinite...

[Jananz]

Yea, enlightenment is a process not a thing. Being goal achievement orientated with our indocrination into the idea of schooling and exams...we tend to think enlightenment is some kind of goal achievable through effort, after which we will be awarded a certificate by an enlightened judge. I think this misunderstanding is still encouraged by the spiritual industry...I would love someone to expertly unpack this holy cow, it is time it died so we can move on to greater authenticity.

Our avoidance and coping mechanisms determine how awake we are to the moment. If we can bring adequate unconditional love and humanity (humility) to a situation, then we can be determined to wake up, even when the circumstances around us look like hell, and the people seem to be acting like demons. Depersonalizing the whole thing, we can see our social context in terms of primate dynamics, survival pressures, mating rivalries, power plays and vying for security, status and comfort. Our ability to respond with lucidity and love determines our success. If however we back down from the raw edge we become irresponsible to varying degrees. How irresponsible...(not responding) we become determines the extent of our so called madness (psychosis, neurosis etc...).

Numbness and shutdown occurs when circumstances are beyond our ability to handle skillfully and in the event of a painful assault the organism will disconnect the sensitivity to that region of the psyche or body. Setting up a 'wound' or charge which can later be triggered by a similar assault. Perhaps there is some correspondence between the amount of scar tissue we build up in our neuromusculature system and the degree of illumination or enlightenment we can achieve. In the effort to heal we may indeed develop much further than if we had never been assaulted in the first place. For the pain of the wound forces us to become conscious of it and seek the soul-ution to its distress. Really it is all in the particular blend of avoidance and coping mechanism and consciousness skills we build that determines our ascension level within the ups and downs of life.

[Korpo]

Yea, enlightenment is a process not a thing. Being goal achievement orientated with our indocrination into the idea of schooling and exams...we tend to think enlightenment is some kind of goal achievable through effort, after which we will be awarded a certificate by an enlightened judge. I think this misunderstanding is still encouraged by the spiritual industry...I would love someone to expertly unpack this holy cow, it is time it died so we can move on to greater authenticity.

The process will lead to enlightenment, and enlightenment will be the end of that particular process (maturation), but it is not the end of everything, it is the turning point towards something different.

I agree that it does not do to be too goal-oriented, but a certain motivation is needed to sit down and meditate for quite some time. It is a necessary "evil" you have to shed later on, not in the beginning. Like meditation techniques themselves certain beliefs and ideas are necessary for a good deal of the way, but need to let gone of later on when they become more obstacles than useful. You need something to start the process before it becomes self-sustaining and picks up speed.

I think doubting that enlightenment exists as a milestone along the way is an act of Western frustration. Suddenly the process is declared enlightenment itself, but I rather adhere to the idea that enlightenment exists all the time, and can be uncovered by the enlightening process to ever bigger degrees, until it is finally fully attained. That does not mean the process is enlightenment. The process leads to episodes of enlightenment until finally all that remains is enlightened mind. The process of taking away everything non-enlightened from the mind has by its very definition an end.

From my point of view it has become very fashionable to talk of infinities, whether that is the case or not.

I would give Buddhism and Taoism more credit than the modern ideas of what enlightenment is. They are too convenient in a time that reveres convenience (even if it leads to destruction). I'd personally assume that the Buddha knew a bit more about enlightenment, and that is where that idea of enlightenment comes from. I doubt his motivation was building a "spiritual industry". He spent more than 40 years on the road trying to help people reaching enlightenment after his own, and people did. Lao Tse laid his ideas down only to go live in the mountains for the rest of his days.

What I know about Buddhist ideas about enlightenment or Lao Tses ideas of what constitutes the "master" and his/her actions I don't see infinites. I see a culmination, a stage, something that can be attained. I personally doubt these teachers made it so that people chase fool's gold for 2,500 years since they walked the earth.

Oliver

[Jananz]

Great answers guys.

In Reality Therapy by William Glasser he says that psychiatric problems are not an illness, but a weakness. Weakness can only be cured by strengthening the bodymind to cope with the stresses of the world. Glasser suggests we dispense with the idea of mental illness and substitute it with the idea of the inability to have the strength to take “responsibility” to fulfill our real needs satisfactorily. Treatment therefore involves helping the individual operate more successfully now…more adapted to “reality” so to speak. Irresponsible behavior comes classed under various labels such as: schizophrenic, neurotic, depressed, sociopathic, addictive personality and psychosomatic. These terms reflect different modes of mal-adaptation, but it is the irresponsibility behind the various symptoms that must be addressed to effect cure.

Since emotion is the causal point between body-mind-spirit, Michael Brown’s “Presence Process” may be an idea treatment modality for tuning into emotional dissonance and distress that is associated with the numbness and shutdown around our trigger points. By delving directly and gently into our dissociation, we can then call our lost orphans home in order to build the presence of mind and motivational hardware focused on achieving our real needs. As our skills for self responsibility build, we overcome the maladaptive symptoms caused by our distress. We thus achieve a higher adaptation to socalled “reality.”

Realizing our potential means waking up to response-ability to our real needs.
Enlightenment is thus the refinement of the essence of existence.

[Korpo]

Glossary underflow error. ;)

Oliver

[Korpo]

I wouldn't mix up different conditions as that. I recently heard something about schizophrenia that suggests that it is not a problem of "responsibility", but a different mode of perception. It is unclear whether it can belong into the same category as other things you listed - or whether it is of a different quality.


I do not get from your later remarks whether you think that the ability to cope has to be built/created or preexists and needs to be uncovered? In the Eastern model it preexists and therefore needs not to be created, just uncovered. Something that is created is necessarily finite. In the Eastern model this uncovered ability to cope or adapt is infinite, but can be attained in finite steps.

In the creation model you need to constantly create greater adaptiveness, build more adaptiveness, to deal with ever more complex structures. Like how neuro-scientists think about the brain.

But in the back-to-the-origin model you remove obstacles to a given ability to cope. Instead of increasing something to deal with something more complex, you reduce maximally to tap into the preexisting ability to copy with anything that arises. This requires undoing anything that pulls you away from that preexisting ability - the forces pulling are the ego, the preexisting quality the enlightened mind, termed "insight" or "diamond mind" or "the great stillness" or "emptiness".

Oliver

[Tom]

Why is it that enlightenment threads end up driving me crazy?

[sleeper]

Why is it that enlightenment threads end up driving me crazy?

I'm already crazy. Enlightenment threads are just a reminder.

[ButterflyWoman]

I've been crazy. I can't say I recommend it.

[Tom]

It seems to be a mandatory part of the process to have all your mental and emotional structures torn away.

[ButterflyWoman]

It seems to be a mandatory part of the process to have all your mental and emotional structures torn away.
Yes, actually, I agree. With some people it's more subtle, I suspect. I went for the full-blown, lock you up in the psych ward style of doing it, of course. I've always been a "jump in the deep end and hope you figure out how to swim before you drown" sort. :D

For some others, I think it's more of a long, slow simmer rather than a full-on boil over the top.

[Tom]

The slow simmer rather than full immersion would indicate to me that the person is avoiding the process rather than participating in it. It isn't fair, really, that spiritual practices are so often presented as a way of feeling better or having a more functional life or better relationships.

[Jananz]

By fixation on conspiracies and knowing answers, I was really talking about that which is unintegrated, unbalanced and cannot be rationally validated. For example saying that extraterrestrials are working with the power elite to devitalize the populations into a slave class is "unbalanced." While saying that the dark forces of exploitive capitalism naturally work to destroy the populations they exploit is perhaps a more rational approach. We live in a systemically psychotic world and so figuring out a sane approach to dealing with our current collective insanity is the greatest challenge I think humans have ever faced.

What we call the negative ego is the "spirit" repressing conditioning. That which contorts Eros and encourages the perversions of Thanatos. Thus the psychosis of the age is the enculturation of Death (or the culture of death as Gabriel Cousen likes to say).

That which perverts and stems the "flow" of spirit is the reactive conditioning that developed in response to a zillion factors we encountered while living in the culture of death...such that like me, we loose touch with the thread of living-truth that shows us a path of nurturing and fulfillment in life.

To encounter a flow of experience that really does feed us, we have to clean out this shell of former reactivity (negative ego) through the fires of transformation. Thereby we can set up a sympathetic resonance with the Unified Field...otherwise known as Nonduality...or Divine balance and union. The Star of David is composed of an upward triangle (fire or spirit) and a downward triangle (water or matter)...the interlocking of these represents union.

The people at Hexahedron 999 found that biophotons in water exhibit a star of David shape. It is perfect poetry that the spirit which animates matter could be described as a balanced tension of opposites that promotes "flow" of energy and stimulates change or evolution.
[link removed: please see FAQ/rules for guidelines on the posting of links, thanks]

"Resistance to change is difficult to overcome, even when the rewards are the fruits of the tree of life. Only intense heat can move human nature from its inborn inertia and love of the status quo. You may have to turn up the heat (rubedo) to prevent cooling and separation the body from soul. The Phoenix however, is rejuvenated by immersion in fire. The alchemists may have to invite new passions and aggressions, forcing confrontations on vital questions that the white lady (anima) might prefer to cool. Therapeutic support means feeding the fire." The Modern Alchemist, Richard Allen Miller.

[Timotheus]

:D

[CFTraveler]

Thus, one may see, that upon every choice is rebirth within, a glorious nestea plunge in the making when the outbreath breaks into life manifested without. I'm liking you more and more; you remind me of someone.