skepticism on MAP

[zipppy2006]

So I have MAP and I was really into it, got to about day 50 and then school and finals started heating up and I lost it for about a month. Now I've kinda lost a bit of it, I am better at the stuff then when I first started, but definitely not at the level I was at.

My question is: people like Robert Monroe and others that accidentally tripped upon this didn't do any "exercises," they were just in odd sleeping states and found themselves projecting. Is MAP just a confidence booster and is it all in your head, (i.e. phasing). Like I have felt the sensations and I believe they are real to an extent, but when looking at Robert Monroe and phasing and such things, is all this necessary for astral projection? Personally I am starting to feel that controlling my mind and level of lucidity while meditating/trancing is MUCH more important than doing all of the energy exercises. Do we actually have energy blockages and we have to 'oil' our energy bodies to get them working properly again? How did Monroe and others achieve the vibrations and exit state without all of the practice? I am thinking about starting up MAP again but for the moment I am just working on deep trance and meditation, because that is where I have had the most success personally.

thoughts?

[CFTraveler]

So I have MAP and I was really into it, got to about day 50 and then school and finals started heating up and I lost it for about a month. Now I've kinda lost a bit of it, I am better at the stuff then when I first started, but definitely not at the level I was at.

My question is: people like Robert Monroe and others that accidentally tripped upon this didn't do any "exercises," they were just in odd sleeping states and found themselves projecting. Is MAP just a confidence booster and is it all in your head, (i.e. phasing). That's not entirely accurate-Monroe was already using binaural beats and other consciousness-changing exercises when he found himself projecting, and ended up creating a whole system of 'how to' before it developed into phasing. If you read the first of his books you'll see he had a technique that was somewhat similar to what we do to have RTZ obes, and he developed phasing techniques later on when he stopped having vibrations, much like many experienced projectors do.

Like I have felt the sensations and I believe they are real to an extent, but when looking at Robert Monroe and phasing and such things, is all this necessary for astral projection? Personally I am starting to feel that controlling my mind and level of lucidity while meditating/trancing is MUCH more important than doing all of the energy exercises. Energy exercises are not only about energy body development, it's also about shifting your awareness. However, if you have decided that you don't want to do them, there is no reason in the world you should.


Do we actually have energy blockages and we have to 'oil' our energy bodies to get them working properly again? How did Monroe and others achieve the vibrations and exit state without all of the practice? I am thinking about starting up MAP again but for the moment I am just working on deep trance and meditation, because that is where I have had the most success personally. Please realize that energy work is a practice that has been around for a long time and it was not developed to astral project- it was developed by many indo/asian meditative practices to purify awareness and the energy body for yogic, hermetic and magical practices. The writers of MAP discovered that energy work seems to help with projection, something that has been observed by people who naturally project without them. So it became part of the training system for projection.
Some of us (me for example, who has been projecting since I was a young child) went from 3 or 4 projections a year to 3 or 4 projections a month just from incorporating energy work into the routine (and learned it through MAP, by the way) which is the reason I'm still here. And I started MAP in 2004 and am keeping up with my projection frequency and have developed other abilities- I'm pretty sure placebo doesn't stretch out to 8 years. But don't let my testimony affect your decision making- if you don't think energy work is going to help you, there is no reason to do it.

[CFTraveler]

I just want to add that there is an attitude of certain people who believe Monroe developed phasing and that was how it was, because it is 'sort of' portrayed that way on the net- but they are not informed as to the fact that when Robert Monroe started projecting he was having 'old fashioned separations' into the RTZ aka etheric and labeled the places he went to in similar fashion as the more old-fashioned 'astral planes'- he called them locales 1 or 2 or 3, etc. He developed methods of achieving separation which he called 'reaching for vibrations' which basically used a method to externalize the energy body. After years of experience he stopped having vibrations, something that happens to all projectors that have a lot of experience, since the transition process becomes smoother and smoother, and this is when he changed the techniques to what essentially is meditation to maintain awareness as the mind/body goes to sleep or slips into lower frequencies generally associated with sleeping, dreaming and trance, and he changed the nomenclature to 'focus levels' instead of locales. This doesn't make one label 'wronger' than another or one method better than another- it just illustrates how the projection process is fluid and tends to evolve with the practicioner- another reason why flexibility must be maintained about the process itself and it's nature.
So it's better to do what works for you and not to view one method as 'wronger' or 'righter' than others.

[zipppy2006]

Well that makes sense CFT. I have actually read of all Monroe's books and he differentiates phasing from the other way by saying he "turns inward" rather than "rolling out of body." He writes that he was experimenting with sleep learning when he stumbled upon the vibrations, which was a very hard time for him when he thought he was going crazy. It seems pretty accidental to me, and I was just saying that he definitely was not doing active energy work. But I will keep that in mind.

Let me ask another question while were at it then. Separating seems so...well i don't know because I haven't done it haha. But is it very active, like sprinting hard and pulling lots of energy and stimulating chakras, or is it relaxed and more just letting it come? I have tried both and obviously I feel more with the active approach but it just leaves me tired and more frustrated in the end, whereas I have also had some interesting experiences with simply waiting for it. I lucid dream frequently, and the only time I have felt vibrations was when I came back to my room from a lucid dream. But I can't seem to get them in any way shape or form without lucid dreaming (and I know not everyone gets vibes, but any response at all is what I'm looking for). I am also almost sure I have been in a deep enough trance to do it, but none of the 'tried and true' techniques seem to do much for me. any ideas?

Also, regarding astral projection and WILDs, I have been having a hard time of late "subduing my consciousness?" like I am too aware and awake sometimes I think, and I want to slip closer to sleeping but since I started trying this all again that has been increasingly hard for me. Any tips on how to 'let go' a bit more?

[CFTraveler]

Let me ask another question while were at it then. Separating seems so...well i don't know because I haven't done it haha. But is it very active, like sprinting hard and pulling lots of energy and stimulating chakras, or is it relaxed and more just letting it come? It depends. It can be as relaxing as getting up, or as exhausting as trying to swim against the tide, or climbing up a rope with a weight strapped to your chest.
I think that a lot of OBErs try to force the exit instead of learning how to tell when they're ready. This is understandable, because we like to think we're in control, and doing something at will seems more satisfying than 'letting it happen'- the 'I knew I could do it' syndrome- something I'm as guilty of as anyone else- (It's that dang ego thing :D ). But if you do a lot of meditation and introspection you find an exit easier than just trying to force it when you think you want it.
In other words, it not only depends on the person, but on the circumstance-no two exits are the same and they don't get any easier with practice- it's just that you already know you can do it, learn the right cues and it becomes easier 'that way'.

I have tried both and obviously I feel more with the active approach but it just leaves me tired and more frustrated in the end, whereas I have also had some interesting experiences with simply waiting for it. I lucid dream frequently, and the only time I have felt vibrations was when I came back to my room from a lucid dream. But I can't seem to get them in any way shape or form without lucid dreaming (and I know not everyone gets vibes, but any response at all is what I'm looking for). I am also almost sure I have been in a deep enough trance to do it, but none of the 'tried and true' techniques seem to do much for me. any ideas? Yes. I also do no longer have exit vibes except when willing an OBE out of a lucid dream, so I use different cues that my focus has changed. A sort of hybrid between phasing and OBE- using visual cues and mental cues and then doing an old-fashioned exit technique.
For example. If I'm having slow hypnagogics, I either ask for help (from characters if I have them), from guides otherwise, and accept it when it comes. If I 'see through the eyelids' I look for a vortex or anything that's not supposed to be there. If there are none, I look at anything far from me (like a chair) and I will myself there. That pops me out.
If I have 'shifty sensations' I either go with it or try an exit technique that doesn't involve movement (like rope or waterski), if I'm having floaty feelings I do 'surfing' (like on the ocean).
In other words, I use visual cues (astral sight), hypnagogics, etc. to know I've 'disengaged' from the body and now it's time to 'separate'.
If you have an exit sensation and are using a 'forced' technique such as 'rope', do not give up for at least half an hour from beginning it. This seems excessive but it's my experience that most people start using 'rope' before they're in deep trance, and it gets them to light trance, and then they give up. I can't stress how unhelpful that is. If you do this, keep pulling that rope until you either pass out, your 'astral arms' 'fall off' from exhaustion, or you are so awake you can get up and walk away.
But if you are in trance and do rope, do not stop.
Seriously! :shock:

Also, regarding astral projection and WILDs, I have been having a hard time of late "subduing my consciousness?" like I am too aware and awake sometimes I think, and I want to slip closer to sleeping but since I started trying this all again that has been increasingly hard for me. Any tips on how to 'let go' a bit more? A mantra might help? Another thing I do is listen to the earhiss as I focus on the nothingness in front of my eyes (after all the trance techniques) for a good bit before trying any energy body loosening techs.
Last but not least, try to project in the early morning- Get up about 2 or 3 hours before your official 'wakeup' time and try then. It uses your brain's active REM cycle and bypasses a lot of trancework and you can go directly to ebody loosening techs and just 'noticing'.
Good luck.

[Korpo]

Do we actually have energy blockages and we have to 'oil' our energy bodies to get them working properly again?

Almost certainly. The level of blockage in all your energy body is a sign of your personal development.

Some people invested years of personal development and then one day read about OBE and decide to try some simple technique without much to it and *snip* they're out. Others try to apply techniques only, thinking of it as a purely mechanical process, and fail. For prolongued times.

I believe that the underlying principle is a certain kind of openness in beliefs (mental) and a certain emotional balance (emotional) that is the main enabler for OBE. Energy work can help in developing that, and all the techniques Robert provides can help to bridge the final gap to achieve projection, but I also believe that that cannot override deep-seated fears or beliefs that contradict OBEing. I mean, if OBEing would shatter one of your main beliefs and put you in a major belief system crisis, it might just not happen for your own good.

Robert Monroe wasn't a youngster when he started. He had a family life, a business, he was expanding his life in new directions, he was in many ways accomplished in physical life and went beyond it. When he was open to this new thing, it started happening to him, and it took him years to get a hold on it. Each of his book covers a decade of his life! Also, Monroe's Gateway Experience tapes contain energy work as well: an exercise for releasing old emotional blockages and reclaiming the energy called "Release & Recharge", energy work exercises like "Energy Bar Tool" and "Living Body Map", and so on. I found personally that Hemisync tracks stimulate the energy body in some ways, and Holosync (from Centerpointe) tracks seem to do that even more.

Oliver