Difference between sub-naval and naval chakra

[mrsix]

What is the difference between the sub-naval storage centre and the primary chakra very adjacent to it... are they the same thing???

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but the location of some of the secondary and primary centres is somewhat subjective (in my opinion).

my understanding was that if I just put energy to my sub-naval... then its the sub-naval... but if I spin, and overly 'open' that area, then it's the primary centre...

An explanation would be mighty fine ;o)

PS - that also goes for the sub-heart and the sub-brow centre :|

[CFTraveler]

A chakra is an energy exchange center, a vortex of activity, a nexus between the energy body and the physical body.
An energy storage center is what it says- a 'place' where you store energy to feed the chakras that are around it.
Therefore, although you have 8 to 10 chakras, you have three centers.
Yes, they are somewhat subjective, because everyone has different centers that are more developed than others. For example, a person who works in agriculture will probably have a well-developed base center and is well-grounded, while a philosophy professor will probably have a well-developed brow center, and not necessarily be well grounded. However, both will benefit from storing energy in their lower dantien (tantien) because it is the center of gravity, in a physical and metaphysical way.

[mrsix]

Hi, thankyou for your speedy reply CFTraveller.

Is there a particular reason why not to stimulate the primary centres until the secondary and tertiary centres are particularly well-tuned?
RB doesnt go into too much detail other than to say it can cause the secondary's to develop slowly.

My understanding is that you need to store enough energy to make sure it's available for the chakras to use, is this correct? Otherwise, you'll have active chakras but no energy to feed them.

My brow chakra is always thumping away whenever I relax or do any energy work, so its kind of hard to ignore, should I feed energy into my sub-brow to allow it to have energy to use if this is the case?? I understand however that RB recommends ONLY filling the sub-naval.

See, Ive had a 3 or 4 year break from energy raising, so im technically starting again rebuilding my energy body!

Sorry for having such scattered questions and responses, I have verbal diarreah (must have an over-active throat chakra) :D :D :D

[CFTraveler]

Hi, thankyou for your speedy reply CFTraveller.

Is there a particular reason why not to stimulate the primary centres until the secondary and tertiary centres are particularly well-tuned?
RB doesnt go into too much detail other than to say it can cause the secondary's to develop slowly.
Yes. The terts & secs should be developed first for two reasons: There can be teeny-tiny blocks all over the energy body and that may block flow to the chakras. If you clear these up first, you facilitate flow around any trouble spots to ensue, helping prevent energy imbalances. In other words, you'll facilitate 'balancing flow'. Think of a bucket full of ice. The level will be uneven and flow will be difficult. But if the water is liquid, it'll flow where it's needed, in spite of a few blocks here and there. If you have an overdeveloped chakra it will be harder to balance it if flow is not optimal.
Another reason is that when you develop your terts & secs you are also training yourself to feel energy, so you can feel when you have blocks, or when something 'not right' is happening to your energy body, whatever it can be.


My understanding is that you need to store enough energy to make sure it's available for the chakras to use, is this correct? Otherwise, you'll have active chakras but no energy to feed them. Sort of. Then you'll have experiences that happen before you know it.


My brow chakra is always thumping away whenever I relax or do any energy work, so its kind of hard to ignore, should I feed energy into my sub-brow to allow it to have energy to use if this is the case?? I understand however that RB recommends ONLY filling the sub-naval. No, stick to the subnavel. Putting energy on your subbrow will only aggravate the problem.

See, Ive had a 3 or 4 year break from energy raising, so im technically starting again rebuilding my energy body! Well, then, get to work! :P

Sorry for having such scattered questions and responses, I have verbal diarreah (must have an over-active throat chakra) :D :D :D Verb-a-rrhea? Maybe that should be the next word of the week. :lol:

[Aunt Clair]

What is the difference between the sub-naval storage centre and the primary chakra very adjacent to it... are they the same thing???
No , the subnavel storage centre surrounds and feeds the spinal ascension channel and the red and orange chakras . The primary chakras next to it are yellow above and red and orange within . These chakras are spheroid energy centres which spin slowly and pass energy above or below to the adjacent centres . Each chakra has distinct attributes which you may wish to Google . The stones or energy storage centres on the basal human are 3 . The spinal column chakras on the basal human are 7 . But as we develop new energy centres manifest . Robert Bruce was one of the first authors to discuss and describe the chakra beneath the red one which clairvoyantly appears rose coloured .

The energy of the red male tan tien or Earth Stone energy storage centre of the abdomen is called Ching by Taoists . It is regenerative energy , it is power . It facilitates vibes for OBE . It is earth energy hermetically . The core of this centre lies between the orange and red chakras eventually becoming as large as these chakras . It is a reciprocal energy to the Earth and it is air . When developed it will be emerald green .


Sorry if this is a stupid question, but the location of some of the secondary and primary centres is somewhat subjective (in my opinion).Robert Bruce is an intuitive researcher who is clairsentient . That is he feels the energy structures and their flow . Clairvoyantly , I can see the chakras until they become occluded by developed stones anyway . And the Vedic Literature lists 5 chakras 4 blossoming with tattwa or elemental energies into the fifth above the crown like a lotus . Since those times we have developed 7 or more . So the placement of these chakras is discussed in ancient literature and is confirmed by intuitive , clairsentient and clairvoyant research .

PS - that also goes for the sub-heart and the sub-brow centre :|
An eclectic understanding is ;
crown heavens stone xie gratitude manifestation air female magnetic purple and white chakras
head moonstone shen intuition water moon female magnetic blue and indigo chakras
chest sunstone chi vital essence fire sun male electric green and yellow chakras
belly earthstone ching regenerative earth male electric orange and red chakras
http://members.iinet.net.au/~curran/energy%20body/10%20a%20tan%20tiens%20chakras.jpg
More chakras and stones develop later for example as on the rear of the spine .

With energy throbs of the head a few things to consider are that there could be blockages in the head occluding the natural flow out of energy and another is that energy should not flow upwards only from the base but should also flow downwards and front to back , back to front and side to side . Deep cleansing downwards from the crown to the toes will allow the energy to flow back out from the head , then energy can be raised in balance from the base towards the crown with control . You can learn to control the energy in each energy storage centre . And if energy is not brought to the crown then the brow centre can not develop clairvoyance and clairaudienc.Balance is a good thing .

[mrsix]

Thanks Clair for your fantastic reply.

Its alot more complicated than I first thought! :D

My only concern really is that im not sure whether im putting energy into my storage centre or the 2nd Primary Chakra (the Orange one?)

My understanding is that by putting it solely into the naval sub-storage centre, the other two sub-storage centres will slowly fill anyway, and eventually fill and develop the primary chakras... thats how im going anyway.

Ill keep experimenting ;o)

Thankyou for your reply, the locations and workings of the sub-storage centres makes alot more sense now

[Korpo]

From the Daoist material I surveyed, it seems that the confusion of Lower Dantien and naval chakra is widespread. If I interpreted the material correctly, the chakra has a minor regulating function on the major channel down the front, and will strobe on overflow. It is not a storage center, it is more like a buffer in regards to that.

The Lower Dantien on the other hand lies deeper inside the body and also more downward. It is at the exact center of gravity of the body, its center. Make a line from the center of the pelvic bottom to the center of the crown and you will find the Lower Dantien will be on it. This line actually exists as energy channel, the Central Channel, which is the main energy line of your body, whose energy permeates outward. It connects into the spinal vessel at intervals and into the center marrow of each bone. All three Dantiens reside on this line, and if I observed correctly, all the major chakras also intersect through it. I'd assume the minor chakras on the body's joints Robert describes might intersect into the marrow central channel, too.

The Daoists call this inner center "the Real Dantien" as it is a major energy storage and regulator of the body's energies, while "the False Dantien" is more up and outward, and I personally assume this is actually the navel chakra, as the property of strobing off excess is a chakra property Robert described.

If you look for the sub-navel storage a good way IMO to find it is to follow the Central Channel upward. In my experience it feels like a bigger "knob" on the Central Channel, but your experience might vary. It is in front of the spine in the body below the navel.

Good success,
Oliver

[Aunt Clair]

A bit about the false tan tien notion :
"The navel is developed to gather and absorb and process energy and purify it and bring it into the microcosmic circuit and into the rest of the psychic channels and eventually into the 12 primary meridians.So when your read some texts, esp. the older ones not infected with contemporary nonsense, you have to carefully judge if they are talking about the "real" tan tien or the "false" tan tien. The location of the burners being and extra problem. If you imagine fire in the lower dan tien, it tends to just sit there.

But if you "burn" the huiyin, it rouses itself to move in the microcosmic circulation, often in the water path (up the front down the back). This is the method dealt with in the daoyin tradition. Where actually physically moving qi in the channels is often looked down upon or shunned as improper method. When you do a single breath swallowing, on the exhale the evil wind exits the body through the nose via the spine (wind path). So the process there is seen as "mechanical" to the act of swallowing a single breath (properly that is). Its not something you force. "
http://www.groupsrv.com/hobby/about133476.html

An interesting perspective of crown down energy flow "sinking the brain" .
http://flux64.blogspot.com/2006/10/thre ... o-one.html (http://flux64.blogspot.com/2006/10/three-minds-into-one.html)
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I interpret the new age false tan tien notion as the seed of the core of the dan tien possibly or some other nested spheroid layer which is not false at all but a vital aspect of its development .

. I see the entire abdomen as a cauldron of energy wihtin this the two chakraas at their intersection another energy centre manifests which grows layers of energy around it and others within it
like a jawbreaker gobstopper .

The Earth Stone :
[ { { C o
earth water fire air akasha
1 3a 3b 2 4

The Moon Stone
water earth air fire akasha
1 3a 3b 2 4
1. The tan tien has a thick pliable shell
the ascension channel runs vertically through its core
a pair of chakras stud this channel like beads upon a tube
a cloudy nebula of energy churns around this energy storage centre and through the chakras within it

2 a core develops between the space of the chakras which is seen clairvoyantly as a golden orb of energy so very small but growing quickly from a marble size to a grapefruit . When it manifests the chakras charge up and swelll enlarging too
the core enlarges to intersect with the top and bottoms of these vertical chakras . The core will ripen to become the reciprocal energy of the cauldron . So the earth stone manifests an air core

3 two clouds now churn in the cauldron the outer shell 3a is loose and free moving but the inner cloud is becoming more compact and dense 3b . This inner shell cloud becomes a sheath around the core

4 an akashic seed manifests within the core
the cauldron continues to brew and develop

[Korpo]

I interpret the new age false tan tien notion as the seed of the core of the dan tien possibly or some other nested spheroid layer which is not false at all but a vital aspect of its development .

There's nothing new age about it. It's from Daoist texts, researched out by Dr Yang.

Oliver

[Aunt Clair]

I interpret the new age false tan tien notion as the seed of the core of the dan tien possibly or some other nested spheroid layer which is not false at all but a vital aspect of its development .

There's nothing new age about it. It's from Daoist texts, researched out by Dr Yang.

Oliver
No disrespect intended . If you disagree with the author I quoted please educate me in your own perspective , thanks .

[Korpo]

First of all "false" does not mean fake, but is used to denote "that is not the actual dantien itself", which rests precisely at the body's center. I have no doubt that other structures contribute to its degree of development, openness or capacity for regulating energy, they are however not "the thing itself", but its supporting structures, just as Robert describes the supporting structures of for example the base chakra in "Energy Work". Like the hip joints, etc.

As for practices that require using the actual Dantien, this distinction Daoist Qigong is an important one. The distinction between "real" and "false" has been made as the confusion of both seems to be common and encountered by a good deal of students of that path as they progress in inner perception.

"Real" and "false" are arbitrary labels. As both structures have different properties - the "false" one strobes, while the "real" one seems to be of a wholly different capacity - I can understand the discernment. A practice like Embryonic Breathing for example, which "builds fire in the cauldron" (improves the energy storage capacity of the Dantien by energy intake practice) requires the distinction. While regular strobes in the "false" Dantien would allow some energy to go to the real Dantien IMO, the intended effect of directly arousing the Lower Dantien and working with its energy and the breath would be diminished. Also only the usage of the "real" Dantien allows working with the energies of the Central Channel, etc. Else all the wrong meridians/channels/vessels would get worked, which could be detrimental at worst or useless or have a different outcome at best when following this school of Daoist energy work / alchemy of the Neo-Daoist traditions of China.

I must admit however I find those teachings unhelpful. I feel all of the energy body must be dealt with as intuition indicates. The body knows what to do when, or better: something within us knows what to deal within our energy bodies and when. There is a natural order. I'd rather follow Lao-Tse's notion of restoring a natural flow by learning what is there instead of creating certain flows according to someone's template of development (a more Neo-Daoist concept that has evolved within the last millenium). If the natural order is followed, it does not matter which structure is called what. As the mind becomes aware of the flows and blocks of the body, what needs to be done and where reveals itself and needs no labels. The mind moves from the outer to the inner and restores what it finds as the capacity to feel returns.

Oliver