Climbing the Rope

[Peaceful_Philosopher]

Hi, I'm new here, just registered about 13 minutes ago.
I'm reading Astral Projection part 2, and I REALLY need to know: Do I stay COMPLETELY conscious during ALL of this, OR do I let myself have hypnogogical/dream images pop into my mind? I'm guessing I'm soposed to stay COMPLETELY conscious, actually I'm sure of it, BUT I got a problem with that:
If I try staying completely conscious, I can't even get close to going into Alfa or going towards Trance at ALL. It's like staying awake... Someone please give me some clear answer/solution to this. thanks

[Korpo]

I think you are confusing terms here - being "conscious" in all things pertaining to projection and trance just means "able to experience and remember them". Do not confuse the meanings of "conscious" with "being awake".

Hypnagogic and dream imagery can be a way of themselves for attaining an OBE - see the technique of Phasing here:

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=7207 (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=7207)


If I try staying completely conscious, I can't even get close to going into Alfa or going towards Trance at ALL.

Only if you define "completely conscious" as synonym for "completely awake", which it isn't. It just means the capability to reason, observe, interact and recall.

Take good care,
Oliver

[Peaceful_Philosopher]

Thanks for your help, BUT you probably missunderstood me.
I'm reading Astral Projection part 2 in Hungarian, and the words arn't the same, obviously, so I have to translate and I might be using certain words in the wrong place.
Here is what I meant (in a simpler sense):
As I'm calming down and I try going towards alfa I feel that good feeling that takes everyone into sleeping, and I start drifting off into "neverland", and as I suddenly realise that it is happening, I snap out of it, but then, I'm too awake and aware of my physical body and sorroundings, and then I have to start all over again, trying to go into alfa. As I'm trying again, the same thing happens, and it seems, that I can't go deeper than beta, because then I will fall asleep. I can't control what happens in alfa, let alone even notice trance, because by that time I'm dreaming... It's like the DEEPER I want to go, the LESS CONTROL I have. What do I do??
I hope this was a more clear explanation. Plz let me know what I'm supposed to or not supposed to do.

[Korpo]

Panicking upon losing control is counterproductive, I'd say. Acknowledge it and try to muster up your consciousness to stay awake enough. Do not go into a cycle of falling asleep/snapping out strongly - IMO that is not helping.

Doing energy work before doing trance work should help prolong the capability to stay alert.

If you are worried about falling asleep do Robert's trick: While lying down, bend your arm at the elbow at an angle of 90 degrees, so that your arm is standing straight up. This is very easy to maintain. Now when you skip over to sleep, your muscles soften up and the arm drops. Doing this repeatedly helps identifying the point you have to watch out for and helps training to stay conscious in trance.

Take good care,
Oliver

[CFTraveler]

There is a technique that phasers sometimes use to avoid passing out while in the hypnagogic state, that I find helpful- it seems that the feeling of loss of control when going into this state is the feeling of being sucked in or involved with the scene unfolding in front of you. You appear to be having trouble staying there without getting 'sucked in' and lost in the action, starting a 'real unconscious dream'. What I have found helpful (and I realize it's not easy) is, instead of reacting and withdrawing (which snaps you out of it) is to then change focus to the whole scene without paying attention to what's actually happening in it. This is the difference from 'being swept away' at it's own speed (which is how I understand it) to slowly synchronizing with it and maintaining control, which is generally what you want.

[Peaceful_Philosopher]

Am I supposed to even have that feeling of falling asleep? Isn't this supposed to be like; staying awake completely while my mind goes into trance by concentrating on one thing, like my breathing? I want to consciously go into trance and consciously pull myself or somehow leave my body, I want to have full control over it. I don't want to enter into the scene of a dream image in the hypnogogic state, what's the point of doing that??? I want full control, how do I achieve that?

[Korpo]

Practice a lot. ;)

Being in a trance is partially like being asleep. It takes discernment and experience to tell these things apart, stay conscious and attain more control.

You're starting. Don't ruin your experience by being over-ambitious. Be conscious of what you are doing, try to experience subtleties, learn. Over-focussing on a goal makes you miss the way there, and only mastering the way will give you the skill you want.

Take good care,
Oliver

[CFTraveler]

Expectations can get in the way of experience, grasshoppah.

[Peaceful_Philosopher]

Alright, I get it. Don't skip steps, and stay conscious and in control.
Thanks guys!

[iadnon]

Korpo:

To have panic because of control lose is something really common. I remember, time ago, I got to an altered state of consciousness while in the street (fully awake). It was more of a "reality perception" than a trance state or the like, but I had so much clearness in that way that I had a panic attack. Time later I found out that our psyches have some stability control system, and it uses fear to take us to the set-out point again. It's like "hey, your all-life reality is this, so don't try to break it down". The cabalists call that test "Saturn's prove" or "passing through the gate", and it's represented by the tarot card "the world". In their meditation system they visualize such card in their minds as a door, and they pass through it to have access to an another landscape. It's a guided-meditation system.

So, one of my conclusions is that you must have a really good sense of humor, and not to be afraid of going nuts.