Why isn't astral projection widely known?

[RyanParis]

I know for a fact astral projection is real. I have done exactly the same things (by accident) as Robert Bruce described in Astral Dynamics.

But why don't more people know about it?

I mention astral travel to people, and they draw a blank stare.

Why?

[ButterflyWoman]

It's been known since ancient times, although under different names. The ancient Egyptians, for example, were well aware of it and apparently their mystics practiced it. It's also mentioned in the Bible (Paul wrote about a vision in which he didn't know if he was in his body or out of it!), and in mystical writings of pretty much every culture and tradition.

Most of them don't call it "astral travel" as that's a fairly newly coined phrase (20th century, I believe).

Why don't more people know about? Well, frankly, most people don't know much about ANYthing spiritual or mystical, so why should this be an exception? ;)

[kiwibonga]

I still haven't met a single person who has never heard of OBEs... Everyone I talked to about it knew at least of NDEs, and most of them had a story to share about some ouija board urban legend, or "my uncle did this," "my grandmother did that," etc... Everyone has at least seen a documentary on ghosts or psychics...

It's true that most people just have a general idea... They haven't gone in depth like we have... But I'm surprised that you think it's not "mainstream"...

[Palehorse Redivivus]

Heh, I remember first learning of AP in a private Baptist elementary school of all places. It was in a kid's book; a girl's Native American uncle was able to AP (and manifest himself visibly), visited her and whatnot. I don't remember the title or any details now, and at the time I remember wondering whether this was just a plot device, or something that could actually be done. And I'm pretty sure that planted the seed to get me looking into these things years later.

I'd guess it's one of those things where people who are ready to find out about it, do so one way or another... and those who aren't inclined to it may or may not.

[star]

Materlistic world. People like things to fit in little boxes and want to enjoy life in the ignorance that is bliss. I no longer have that option. No regressing from this point sadly. :)

[Berserk]

A few years ago, I met a woman who travelled astrally every day while sitting in her easy chair. This discipline was deemed too bizarre by her husband and he divorced her. I took her out for dinner and pumped her for information on her astral discoveries from the lower planes on out. Her reports were particularly interesting to me because she had never heard of Robert Monroe or other OBE adepts. So her descriptions were valuable as independent confirmation of certain oft repeated encounters, both positive and negative.

My experience is that OBEs are known, but not commonly researched. Most people I encounter seem to imagine that OBEs are the passion of New Age kookery. As a result, I need to probe patiently to extract their own paranormal experiences from them. NDEs have better press, but even they are often viewed with great suspicion and skepticism. I long for the day when such research can gain mainstream respectability. More creative use of scientific methods with double blind testing would help. I voraciously read all the available OBE research from Duke, Stanford, and other centers of parapsychology, but so far am disappointed with the modest replicable results.

Don

[JoSac]

The people i tlkd to thought i was crazy. But i thnk that if it did get out and scientists found a way to produce the state so easily that everyone could, i think it would ruin the astral planes.

Im not sure of this, but what do you people think?

JS

[CFTraveler]

But i thnk that if it did get out Get out of where?

and scientists found a way to produce the state so easily that everyone could, i think it would ruin the astral planes. That would be true if the Astral planes were places like a park or a mall, but the APlanes are levels of perception in which you manifest your consciousness. Everyone projects to their own ability (that is another theme, though) and everyone does it unconsciously already. So the difference is that many people would be out trying to have sex instead of getting unconscious lessons, and a lot of people would be relearning stuff they already knew. But chances are not many of them would be aware of each other, due to the differing 'vibrational frequencies' or 'psychological preparedness' amongst projectors, that would limit their perceptions and ability to interact.

Im not sure of this, but what do you people think?

JS Well, you asked! :lol:

[Alaskans]

The people i tlkd to thought i was crazy. But i thnk that if it did get out and scientists found a way to produce the state so easily that everyone could, i think it would ruin the astral planes.

Im not sure of this, but what do you people think?

JS

Interesting thought :o
I would say.. The scientists could not produce a way to always induce obe in a way that it could be confirmed to be obe and not just a dream. Not because it is impossible, it is very possible, but because it does not fit in the world reality, the universe would make sure it could not be reproduced in an indisputable scientific way. Thats why not even psychic powers are allowed to be publicly tested scientificly. Psychic powers are accepted by many many people, so it can be talked about and used pretty openly, but a great many people in the world do not beleive in it, so it can not be proven to exist on the wide scale.

I think that if ordinary people could project, I dont think it would ruin the planes. Ordinary people limit themselves with thier own thinking so much, they wouldnt be able to 'get off the ground', they'd stay in the lower planes where everything is like physical earth already. Thats my thoughts anyways.

[JoSac]

Hmm i just wanted to see what you guys thought.

Im reading Monroe's Far Journeys right now and he has reported going to places and seeing whats going on, then when he returns he will talk to the person and they are shocked to know that's exactly what happened.

So in a way that could kind of invade your privacy.

I jus think that people would have to use it responsibly.

JS

[Alaskans]

Yea, but just being our sensitive selves we invade privacy. I dont think its a sin unless it's stalking, thats obsession. Right to privacy is human ethics. If theres something to hide then theres something to be changed (not that im perfect). Oh... you probably didnt intend a discussion over it huh. blah blah :D blah blah

[JoSac]

Ya no i didnt, but thats ok. I know its not a sin, but society would be totally differnet if this was widely know to everyone.

JS

[CFTraveler]

It is known to most everyone. It's just that most people don't believe it's real. They believe it's made up, like an urban myth.

[Alaskans]

It makes me sad how society has developed. And it seems very unfair that we arent allowed to bring the truth out in the open for everyone to see. It's like the universe wants some people to destroy themselves because they dont know what is true. I'm sure its probably just that I dont have a full understanding about it, there must be a good reason. Maybe it's like in exodus, the Jews saw all those absolutely amazing things God did and yet they ended up worshiping idols and having orgies the moment Moses turned his back.

[JoEMoNK]

There are allot of people that astral project that have no idea what is going on. Could you imagine being ripped out of your body tossed around the room and then thrown back, you wake up and maybe talk to your spouse about it and they say wow what an interesting dream you had. Then you go back to sleep possibly never having an experience like that again. OR every night having to deal with the old hag/dweller effect and you didn’t have access to the internet to find a cool and informative forum like this one, or your internet search brings you to some other site that try's to sell you pills to fix your problem. My guess is that allot of people just consider the weird stuff well they sleep as just a dream or nightmare even if it almost seemed too real.

[Psychotronic]

Nowaday people are mentally bound to the physical surrounding, civilization is a half-machine and a half-element(each human too). There are many abstract timeless elements and members in the elemental half. The mechanical half is closer to physical surrounding, it is a patchwork of material principles constructed to maintain our civilization. The plane of matter is harder and more intensive, it is too easy to hang on this mechanical principles for many people, "individual thinking" seems like difficult pointlessness, but material system will be apparently important forever, it means it is better to hanging on material surrounding for the most of people, but it is purely a psychological concern. The number of "conscious people" is much smaller becasuse of nowaday psychological model of civilization doesn´t allow "full consciousness" in the most of cases. The physical plane in combination with the model of civilization is too persuading, but it is needfull too. We can divide principles of human mind to "material side of thinking" and less delimited "immaterial side" with more abstract elements. Human conscious life is a pure dualism in all aspects, human conscious mind with an ""I" factor" must keep a mental distance to material and immaterial side. The ""I" factor" of a human mind must be an impartial and the most important factor between these both sides. Simply we must have a method of thinking in a form of dualism - in this case dualism means an impartiality - being with no fixed mental relationship to any side of dualism.

Many people have had an OBE-experience or lucid dream etc. spontaneously, but they have the habit to think more material, so, if they have no material argument, people feel fear to use abstract logic or a form of trust. Nobody can obtain fully impartial mind and this fact in a combination with raising doubts is a subbase for getting closer to material side, but it is mental process - so imperceptible process.

Wanted conscious astral projection and similar experiences are possible only in specific cases. If human realise, that spiritual concerns are needful and very important for the general recognition and for a life at all, it is only the half of notification human needs to have a form of mentality competent to include possibilities for profess astral travelling in RTZ. It is in its principle bordering with widely deplored magic. Only a possibility of OOB-percieving objective informations in physical sphere induces the fact this percieving on itself affect the physical reality, obviously the form of energetic connection in OBE or magic must be very soft, or it is an energy only from material viewpoint. This is a reason, why magic seems so difficult and discouraging, we have four general models of magic, but I call them "principles of magic", because magic is precise combinating this all aspects. The biggest part of population keep in a mind naturally only one or two models for making viewpoints or they have very wrong combinations.

These models are:
1) Demonological model - based on a magic of consciously thinking beings. I call it "mental model", because, it includes mental sphere of mind.
2) Energetic model - based on energy and its possibilities, it is an opposite of demonological model, from an energetic viewpoint we can easily see phenomens AC or TK... like their energetic structure. Materialists can´t realise, if it is energy or it isn´t energy, because the energetic viewpoint is only a part of complex viewpoint needed for obtaining applicative informations in a magic-esoteric phenomens.
3) Psychological model - presents demonology like a mental factor in human mind. This model is based on impartial viewpoint inclusive especially relations between energetically-informational and "mental" structure. This model is a form of dualism too, it is connection between more immaterial and mental "side of consciousness" and more material "energetic side" illustrating a system of relations matter to consciousness.
4) Cybernetic model - it includes pure informatical sphere. It has constant relations with a substance of mindset to researched phenomen, this model is useful for percieving informations describing a phenomen. It is a comparison some informations in a phenomen with all known phenomens in informational similarities.

These models with the realisation about relativity of space and time are a form of theoretical magic in all combinations. Generally there is only one right form for the consciousness - a counterbalanced mind able to correctly work with both sides of dualism all at once, this right form for a mind is a mental mindset with consciousness precisely percieving all magical models like the only viewpoint. Almost all people are using some models more than another else, people often ignore or deplore some models and it induces sophisticated psychological barriers, because conscoiusness has no impartial viewpoint..

Effectivity of each magical action depends on the whole komplex of all models, there are specific (intro and extro)aspects for each specific magical action and this is the reason, why human must be "fully" purposeful and impartial. (it is difficult to obtain "full" purposefulness and mental impartiality) OBEs don´t only seem like magical actions, but OBEs are an interpretation of magic with some connections to some models of magic, each human imagine it individually, according to his mindset in models of magic. Obtain an "OBE-ability", for example in RTZ, has an insistence on a cybernetic sphere of a mind, we can attach this viewpoint to competent thought forms of an energetic sphere and see an actuality with more immediateness, with a view to an energetic aspect of situation and a decomposition consciousness in energy. Furthermore it tends to the psychological viewpoint, it means conscious percieving energy with informations more abstractly and giving a psychological overview, it contains knowledge about an energetic, informatic properties of impressions coming through the conscious mind, mentality is an important factor here, so the last model is demonologic, it is a mental model, because objective existence of other beings is relative - it contains other people too. I have a mental mindset to other people in the form "civilization" and I have a mental mindset to other beings and myself. Almost nobody know, that human can easily obtain the "only right" general mental mindset, if he keep the distance to the civilization and whole surrounding and the distance to his own mental elements. It is good to analyse some phenomens, but we must forgot it in a moment and continue with blank consciousness. We mustn´t be mentally hanged on surrounding, because surrounding is everything without the "I" - without consciousness. A matter, an energy, informations and thoughts too - everything is only a surrounding.

Everybody has some "stronger" connections to some spheres of surrounding - mental borders. Everybody partially has some mental commitments to some factor in surrounding, we are putting our "I" to the surrounding, but the most of population has lost the ability to return mind to impartial pure "I" and because of that they are staying constantly hanged on some factors in surrounding and a mind limits the overview of consciousness - circumscribe consciousness, because subconsciousness notice, that concentration is consciously fully mentally anchored to pointless half-illusions in surrounding.


Mental sphere - has full control of psychological percieving energy with informations - mentality contains general forms for an active consciousness.
Energetic sphere - is an interpretation of each existence according to physical stability and a scale of energetic sheerness and intensity - in comparing to "properties of consciousness".
Psychological sphere - describes everything consciously percieved or accomplished. Consciousness percieve energetically-informational actuality in some mental form. I can see my mental mindset and trying to change it according to my volition - it is an abstract work with wider aspects of consciousness. I can more concentrate on properties of energy and concrete informations - it is a limited work with conscious concentration to something concrete. But the "only right" form of conscious work with mind is dualism. An energy and informations are manifested in mental impression and mental state is equally reflected in percieving energy and informations. This opposites are affecting themselves constantly, we must obtain the nature dualistic consciousness - it means be able to thinking in abstract and analytic spheres all at once.
Cybernetic sphere - is a sphere of concrete informations and their combinations. I can see concrete informations here. If I have sufficiently nature conscious thinking, there are informatic komplexes and their combinations producing and realising everything many times quicklier, mind is able to compare an information with whole range of conscious mind in a small moment - compare with the most of informatic combinations and similarities. It is possible only in the case, if the mind is able to be consciously active in abstract and analytic spheres all at once, it is an ability to join all 4 models into the wanted combination.

The Mental sphere is a strong opposite to the Cybernetic sphere and a weak opposite to the Energetic sphere.
The Energetic sphere is a strong opposite to the Psychological sphere and a weak opposite to the Mental sphere.
The Psychological sphere is a strong opposite to the Energetic sphere and a weak opposite to the Cybernetic sphere.
The Cybernetic sphere is a strong opposite to the Mental sphere and a weak opposite to the Psychological sphere.

Nowaday people are mostly hanged on some aspects of surrounding, it means they have an effusive mindset to think only in boring, pointless material relationships. So, they have an insistence in cybernetic sphere and they have a tendency to see an actuality like an energy, but they want to describe this energy in cybernetic informations. They ignore psychological viewpoints of perceived actuality, so there are not any wider relations containing view of situation including psychic factors discovering real values of phenomens in surrounding. Real values are possible only like a mental factor - closer to pure consciousness - "I". But human without psychology is not able to realise it, the last aspect - mental sphere - materialists without psychology have no idea about this sphere of mind containing a form for conscious being. But without psychological interpretations of energy they are wrong too, because they presume energy only in space and time. So, nowaday people have mostly the only sphere functioning according to their consciousness - cybernetic sphere in analytic view with absolutely concrete informations. It is a reason for the phenomen „Human like a machine.“.