OBE and Epilepsy- My Reply to Donnie's Q.

[CFTraveler]

In a question to Robert, Donnie Darko wrote the following post:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=11283 (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=11283)

I have a comment or three, as I think this subject is pretty important and have an opinion (surprise!) :roll:

Dear Donnie:
I don't think you have to worry about losing your spontaneous OBEs when on antiseizure medication. First and foremost, even though I wouldn't ask the doctor about OBE practice (the reasons you very aptly described), essentially the main aspect of the practice is expanded awareness and this is mostly done through meditation. So if I were you I'd ask the doctor if it's ok to continue meditating- explain that you like to do deep meditation- I think the medical establishment and psychological establishment considers it safe. It would be interesting to know what their opinion on meditation and epilepsy is.

As to epilepsy-as you may or may not know I've been having spontaneous OBEs since I was very young, and at some point in my life I wondered if they were really seizures. When I had the opportunity I had myself checked. Of course, this was years ago, and the test consisted in having an eeg while they flashed different frequencies in my eyes and probably different sounds in my ears and watched for anomalous brainwave activity. Much to my surprise, they pronounced me epilepsy-free.
So even though there have been studies linking epilepsy to OBE, if you look at the studies in detail the most reported phenomenon is autoscopy, which at least I don't consider a form of OBE. But that's another story.

Anyway, what I wanted to relate is that I have a relative who suffers from epilepsy. He gets grand mal seizures and what they call 'psychological seizures'. (Not a blood relative). Anyway, my sister (his wife) has told me that when he has seizures, he completely loses all consciousness, and she told me (I don't know if this is strictly true) that one of the characteristics of epilepsy is the complete lack of consciousness during a seizure- epileptics feel an 'aura' and can tell when it's coming, but when they seize there is loss of consciousness-and she told me that if you are conscious through a seizure, then it's not epilepsy. I don't know how true this is, but I'm reporting what I've been told.

The reason I'm mentioning this, is because one of the things we do is to try to bring consciousness to unconsciousness when we do OBE practice, so I have often thought that awareness training may be good for an epilectic- it may make you as aware as you can be of an impending seizure, and (in my fantasies) possibly bring some level of control to the event. Of course, I don't know how antiseizure medication works, but I'd guess that it would even give you more control, not less, of your brain state. Of course now I'm just guessing.

One thing I would never never do if I were you is listen to binaural beats, because of their 'strobing' nature. I wager that they could trigger a seizure if you tried to use them. And if they don't I'd be very very surprised.

Anyway, these are my meandering thoughts about the subject. I don't know how helpful they are- but I think you should ask the doctor about meditation. Heck, it can even be a religious or stress-relieving practice.

[ButterflyWoman]

One thing I would never never do if I were you is listen to binaural beats, because of their 'strobing' nature. I wager that they could trigger a seizure if you tried to use them. And if they don't I'd be very very surprised.
They are, indeed, linked to seizures in some people, just as flashing lights and other strobing events are. So yes, binaural beats is a definite no-no for an epileptic, unfortunately.

[jkfuller]

I had never experienced a seizure before last night. I have been working on awakening my energy body for the past couple years, but only began practicing Bruce's NEW method very recently. I was meditating last night using the bounce method to clear any blockages. Well I definitely knocked something loose. I fell into a lucid dream state, floating upward feeling extreme vibration in my energy body before awaking abruptly. I got up to get some water and use the bathroom. While I was [emptying my bladder (mod edit for slightly less vulgar description)] I got an intense aura sensation. I turned around and blacked out, waking up several minutes later convulsing on the bathroom floor. I felt stretched between two planes of consciousness. Music, random sounds and white light filled my head. It took all my focus to come back to center.

I share for two reasons. I think there is certainly a connection between psychic development and seizure. Indeed neurons fire intensely during these episodes. Many of our great minds through history have experienced epilepsy, perhaps illuminating the divine. You suggest that psychic development might help with epilepsy.. Based on my recent experience, I am not so sure. I am not afraid of another episode, and will continue my practice, but for an epileptic, it might be playing with fire. Undoubtedly this is the path of healing, but I never realized what a big can of worms this can be!

[moderator note: While forum participants are free to express their opinions on most topics, it is against the rules to dispense medical advice such as which medications to take or not take, or whether or not taking medication is advisable. The following comment is mostly just opinion and food for thought, but to all forum participants: Please remember that this is a discussion forum, not a medical database. Please do not use this (or any!) forum as a substitute for legitimate medical assessment and care. Thanks.]

My second point concerns medication. No doubt rapid neuron firing will eventually toll the brain, and in extreme cases there may be no alternative. However to dull the mind with prescription drugs might not be the best answer. Steiner equates this to putting a band aid on a spiritual crisis. We often receive divine insight in unexpected ways. Imagine if Van Gogh had taken his seizure medicine!!!

[ButterflyWoman]

Imagine if Van Gogh had taken his seizure medicine!!!
He might not have shot himself. ;)

[jkfuller]

Just my 2 cents surely. Still who are we to judge the sacrifice of another life? Would you care that Van Gogh shot himself had he not created such art? You cant have your cake and eat it :!:

[CFTraveler]

I may be not understanding the last post, so I'll ask anyway:

You cant have your cake and eat it Why not, and do you mean by this that mental/physical health are incompatible with spiritual health?

[jkfuller]

Apparently there is some evidence that he took Digitalis. Today this remedy is considered useless.

[jkfuller]

I do not mean to imply that we cannot grow towards a balance. Quite the opposite, thanks for asking. I am just trying to say that I doubt Van Gogh would have been such a maverick artist/individual if he was given a bevvy of antipsychotics, antidepressants, and other epilepsy meds that modern medicine would recommend. [just opinion]

Did you know that the majority of seizure causes are UNKNOWN? Van Gogh was diagnosed 30 different ways. I fail to see the ethical basis for prescribing powerful drugs for a condition poorly understood [just my opinion]. I guess for me it comes down to faith. I put MY faith in my higher power to guide my hand before the doctor, who has become the mouthpiece of the drug industry. I believe we have all the power within ourselves to heal. It takes but the focus of the mind to bring all aspects of being back to harmony. We need to take back the power of choice. Responsibility for self, not written off to a beaurocratic babysitter.
What do you want your life to be about? Comfort and satiation? or sacrifice and transcendence? True all we need is love, but sometimes we need to get our hands dirty to manifest our love. Seems we have forgotten that as a culture. It is deemed better to be safe and same.

[CFTraveler]

What do you want your life to be about? Comfort and satiation? or sacrifice and transcendence?
Personally, comfort, security and transcendence. I don't believe in the necessity of sacrifice personally (but won't get into a whole convo about that, that's another topic.)
Anyway, the original question was 'will antiseizure meds stop me from having transcendent experiences', and I answered 'I don't think so since I know an epileptic that is taking them and still OBEs'.
If you believe that energy work and meditation caused seizures, you need to stop immediately and contact your health care practicioner ASAP. Any time any type of practice is suspected of causing any type of physical or mental problem this advice needs to be followed, please!!!!
If you want to start a topic about the necessity of pain and suffering for the purpose of attaining transcendence and growth please do so in the Expanding Consciousness thread, however if you want to continue the convo about the practice of taking meds for disease, this is against forum rules. Please avail yourself of them and respect them. And if you can't, follow them anyway.
Once again, as this 'suffering vs. contentment' topic is very interesting, I invite you to continue it in the Expanding Consciousness subforums.

If there are any epileptics on meds and have any information to add to this topic, please pm me and I'll reopen it.
As of now it's closed until further notice.

[CFTraveler]

Subject: OBE and Epilepsy- My Reply to Donnie's Q. (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?p=96107#p96107)


Hi there,
Just wanted to add my two cents to the topic that I was on an anti-epileptic medication (I'm not epileptic; it was a study seeking to expand a medication's applications) for around two years, on various doses including the maximum, which in fact INDUCED short fugues / memory loss, and I never had an negative (or well, positive) effects on my ability to OBE. I can't speak to the question about whether it's safe for epileptics to OBE, but I did want to offer my experience of being on an anti-epileptic medication at the maximum dosage. Not the same medication as the poster, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to throw that out there.

I'm glad they didn't approve that medication for my condition... I sure got sick of thinking I had closed the garage door, only to find out I didn't. :D I switched to a normal ole FDA approved med, and now my condition is treated, the garage door is closed, and I still OBE, too.