Full absorption

[Korpo]

Hello,

I recently heard on an audio book that there is a connection between the moment of full absorption with a meditation object and also losing all limiting attachments to that object.

I wonder if that is so - is that why the Buddha gave certain people meditation objects according to their temperaments, like meditating on a corpse in their mind? Does this eliminate for example fears linked to the fear of death or attachments to physical addictions (linked to the body)?

Does anybody have active experience with this?

Thanks,
Oliver

[ButterflyWoman]

I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but I sometimes meditate on a phrase or bit of scripture (contemplative prayer). It's not a mantra, but rather you repeat the phrase in your mind, turning it over, examining it, trying to absorb it. Well, with something like scripture, you're trying to gain some mystical understanding of it, some connection to what's "behind" the words (very hard to explain, I'm finding). This can also be done with affirmations or, now that I come to think of it, koans.

Is this what you're talking about or am I confused? (Or both, perhaps ;))

[Tom]

Yes, in Theravada Buddhism the meditation objects are assigned to counter specific obstacles. The meditation on the corpse is designed to remove attachment to the body, but it is counter-productive for people who are depressed or suicidal. Meditation on the breath is commonly used because it slows the internal dialogue faster than other objects. Meditation on the form of the Buddha is often assigned as a general antidote if there is not one obstacle or another which is more severe than the rest. The form of the Buddha is also good if you are on your own rather than under the guidance of a teacher who can find your specific biggest obstacle. I seem to remember there are about 40 main meditation objects in Theravada texts along with the things they work to counter. Some are only good for reaching access concentration, and others are good for reaching the first jhana - that level of absorption with the object that you are mentioning. The breath is an object you can use to reach the fourth jhana. Most don't go that far. As the level of jhana deepens, the more complicated objects don't make it because there is too much thinking involved in holding your mind on the object. When the purpose for using one meditation object has been accomplished, the level of absorption developed is then used as a basis for switching to a different object. The mind is very stable and concentration is very strong when leaving jhana for several hours afterward. The things that were the biggest obstacles to attaining jhana do not come back for several hours. During that time it is much easier to go into jhana based on a different object than it is to initially cultivate jhana. This is also the state of mind that is required as a basis for practicing vipassana for keeps. Without it, it is much more common to have flashes of insight that do not lead to permanent alteration. When you leave jhana you can look back on the experience to note which obstacles were present and which good qualities were present. This can't be done while you are actually in jhana until you reach the stage of unifying jhana and vipassana - until then, attempts at investigation or vipassana will break the jhana early. Alternating jhana and vipassana leads to this blending and the sign of having succeeded is that vipassana or investigation by itself can lead directly to full jhana. At this point it is good to investigate the three marks - annica (impermanence), anatma (absence of a permanent, unchanging identity), and dukkha (dis-satisfaction or suffering). Seeing all three marks as a living reality, in jhana, with the ability to examine them leads to the direct sight of emptiness of inherent existence at the Theravada level, and at this point one is called a Stream Enterer. Becoming an Arhat, the goal of Theravada Buddhism, is a certainty in seven incarnations or less even if no further progress is made. There is a level of absorption that is peculiar to having attained a path and the resulting fruit - such as having become a Stream Enterer, a Once Returner, a Nonreturner, or an Arhat. It is like a jhana, but not quite, and it is only available to people who have already cultivated jhana. It has characteristics of the breakthrough that was winning a path as well as characteristics of jhana. With these paths and fruits, there is another similarity to the jhana levels - once you go into them you keep going until the momentum you bring with you is used up. You might make it to the first level or you may go in powerfully enough to reach the third or fourth. Once you are in all you can do is coast.

That more than answers the question. I guess I felt like talking. :)

[CFTraveler]

Yes, in Theravada Buddhism the meditation objects are assigned to counter specific obstacles. The meditation on the corpse is designed to remove attachment to the body, but it is counter-productive for people who are depressed or suicidal. Meditation on the breath is commonly used because it slows the internal dialogue faster than other objects. Meditation on the form of the Buddha is often assigned as a general antidote if there is not one obstacle or another which is more severe than the rest. The form of the Buddha is also good if you are on your own rather than under the guidance of a teacher who can find your specific biggest obstacle. I seem to remember there are about 40 main meditation objects in Theravada texts along with the things they work to counter. Some are only good for reaching access concentration, and others are good for reaching the first jhana - that level of absorption with the object that you are mentioning. The breath is an object you can use to reach the fourth jhana. Most don't go that far. As the level of jhana deepens, the more complicated objects don't make it because there is too much thinking involved in holding your mind on the object. When the purpose for using one meditation object has been accomplished, the level of absorption developed is then used as a basis for switching to a different object. The mind is very stable and concentration is very strong when leaving jhana for several hours afterward. The things that were the biggest obstacles to attaining jhana do not come back for several hours. During that time it is much easier to go into jhana based on a different object than it is to initially cultivate jhana. This is also the state of mind that is required as a basis for practicing vipassana for keeps. Without it, it is much more common to have flashes of insight that do not lead to permanent alteration. When you leave jhana you can look back on the experience to note which obstacles were present and which good qualities were present. This can't be done while you are actually in jhana until you reach the stage of unifying jhana and vipassana - until then, attempts at investigation or vipassana will break the jhana early. Alternating jhana and vipassana leads to this blending and the sign of having succeeded is that vipassana or investigation by itself can lead directly to full jhana. At this point it is good to investigate the three marks - annica (impermanence), anatma (absence of a permanent, unchanging identity), and dukkha (dis-satisfaction or suffering). Seeing all three marks as a living reality, in jhana, with the ability to examine them leads to the direct sight of emptiness of inherent existence at the Theravada level, and at this point one is called a Stream Enterer. Becoming an Arhat, the goal of Theravada Buddhism, is a certainty in seven incarnations or less even if no further progress is made. There is a level of absorption that is peculiar to having attained a path and the resulting fruit - such as having become a Stream Enterer, a Once Returner, a Nonreturner, or an Arhat. It is like a jhana, but not quite, and it is only available to people who have already cultivated jhana. It has characteristics of the breakthrough that was winning a path as well as characteristics of jhana. With these paths and fruits, there is another similarity to the jhana levels - once you go into them you keep going until the momentum you bring with you is used up. You might make it to the first level or you may go in powerfully enough to reach the third or fourth. Once you are in all you can do is coast.

That more than answers the question. I guess I felt like talking. :) Dang! I like it. I just quoted it to make sure it stays. :wink:

[Korpo]

Thank you, Tom. That partially answers my question.

I'm most interested in that actual full absorption moment - what enables it, what happens when you move into it and its consequences. Not in terms of Buddhist "goals" though, I guess. What happens with the energy, what happens to your personality, what experience is made?

Do we have anyone here having passed through this to explain?

Oliver

[Korpo]

Tom, what book would you recommend to actually fill these terms you use with life?

Thanks,
Oliver

[Tom]

http://www.bswa.org/modules/icontent/index.php?page=89

It was a bit of a shock for me to see it presented so well. :)

[Korpo]

:lol: