Specific question about counting and breathing during exit

[TalkingHead]

I don't remember this being covered in A.P. and my guess is it depends on the person. My question then:


Do you think counting during your exit is good or bad? I'm sure this is okay during trance induction but what about counting the number of times your arm pulls the rope.. maybe in groups of 10 or even 2?

Also, do you think it's okay to pay attention to your breath during the exit? I know we are trying to create the sensation of leaving the physical body; so does this keep you too grounded or does the energy body breathe too?

Thanks!

[TalkingHead]

I should note that I'm basically trying to find a nice medium.. I normally fall asleep way too easily during projection attempts.. and upright seating keeps me too wake.. and yet to find comfortable 60 degree position. Counting also keeps me awake sometimes but perhaps I need more trial and error.

Thanks!

[kiwibonga]

About breathing, it's something that can be quite scary for beginners... Because you don't actually breathe in the astral, there's no need for it. When you wake up in sleep paralysis and try to breathe, you might find that you're not feeling the usual refreshment that breathing gives when awake. You'll try to breathe and breathe, but it'll be like the air you're taking in has absolutely no oxygen in it. It's only after about a minute of panicking that you'll realize that not breathing does not actually bring on the usual "gasping for air" reflex, and that you don't need to breathe to "stay alive" out there...

I have heard stories though, of people breathing in OBEs as a means of raising energy. It seems that the awareness action is a great way to feel more energized and improve lucidity. So if you can get through the "Help! I'm suffocating!" part, then surely, breathing must be helpful.

As for counting... I had an OBE where I tried to count seconds in my head... It was very difficult, I had trouble saying the numbers in the correct order, and I couldn't tell how much time had passed since the previous second. It was during one of my early OBEs though, when I had trouble flying and couldn't go through walls, so it didn't really help... Just made me feel disoriented!

[TalkingHead]

Thats very interest kiwibonga.. I'll try and raise energy in my next OBE.. but really I was asking are these things going to interfere with the mind or body state when I'm attempting to project? My attention naturally comes to my breathe whenever I get relaxed.. and I'm wonderign if I should try to focus more on the movement (rope pulling) fully.. or keep some awareness on my breathe.

Thanks!

[CFTraveler]

If you're obsessively counting while you're trying to exit then you're trying too early, IMO. Most of the time when you're in trance, you will not even notice your own breathing unless you're having problems with it. So I think that instead of pulling on a rope while counting, try doing 'falling' techniques until you feel 'floaty', and then try rope or another exit technique. The only time I think that breathing can be used to exit (and I've done it before, so I know it can be used that way) is if you're having heavy vibrations. Then you can try to time the vibes with your breathing, and when they slow down treat them as a wave you want to ride, and 'roll' with them. Sort of direct your awareness into them. Like bodysurfing.

[TalkingHead]

Thanks CFT! And not to get too bogged down in details.. but I have one more specific question. When I go into trance I often feel a loss of awareness and often fall asleep in this area. I think I might be more successful if I knew exactly what trance was. Am I correct in saying that most of the trance exercises serve to slow your breathe down? Maybe I will start concentrating harder on visualizing actual steps that I'm walking down.. that way I can stay more aware.

Also, I imagine that the appearance of visual imagery is a sign of trance.. Am a I right in saying that learning to flow with the imagery will aid in trance- or should I maintain my focus on the trance exercise at hand?

Thanks again!

[Korpo]

Try a different thing, which Robert recommends:

When doing trance lying down, leave your lower arm up, bent in a right angle at the elbow, while the upper arm still rests on the bed. This is very easy to keep up.

As soon as you fall asleep, though, the muscles relax and your arm drops - waking you up. This exercise can help recognise the border between trance and sleep and untrain a reflex to fall too deeply in trance.

I believe if you go with the imagery and not fall asleep you will have a phasing experience.

Take good care,
Oliver

[CFTraveler]

Ditto to what Korpo said.
And yes, imagery is a sign of trance. The slower the imagery the deeper you are into it.

[JoSac]

Is the imagery youre talking about the 'yellow blobby things' you see with your eyes closed?

JS

[CFTraveler]

Is the imagery youre talking about the 'yellow blobby things' you see with your eyes closed?

JS No. I mean imagery that you see as if you were watching Television.

[TalkingHead]

Ok thanks CFT and Oliver! I'll let you know how my practice with this goes!

[JoSac]

Hmmm. I always thought it was the blobby things.

Sometimes when im meditating ill see a random scene, like a guy jumping a fence (I can't remember any of the actual ones). Do these count. They mostly happen when im tired.

Thnaks JS

[CFTraveler]

Hmmm. I always thought it was the blobby things. No, those are called phosphenes and are created by the eyes themselves. (entoptics)


Sometimes when im meditating ill see a random scene, like a guy jumping a fence (I can't remember any of the actual ones). Do these count. They mostly happen when im tired.

Thnaks JS Yes, that's what I'm talking about.

And yes, imagery is a sign of trance. The slower the imagery the deeper you are into it.-If you can not pass out, you'll see them more and more, and the slower they flash the deeper you are. Being sleepy is a quick way to enter trance. But then the thing is to not fall asleep.

[TalkingHead]

Wow.. keeping my arm raised got me right the border of sleep last night... Then I started to climb the rope and it got really difficult.. like I was actually climbing a rope with my physical body. Here's the best part :D I then asked Robert Bruce if I climbing the rope should be this difficult and he said.. "Whatever feels right.. you're pretty close! :lol: I was able to stabilize the dream pretty soon after that and flew out the window.. It was great!

[JoSac]

I always try it but give up bc i dont go to bed in the next 10 min, ill have to try longer tonight.

JS

[Korpo]

Wow.. keeping my arm raised got me right the border of sleep last night... Then I started to climb the rope and it got really difficult.. like I was actually climbing a rope with my physical body. Here's the best part :D I then asked Robert Bruce if I climbing the rope should be this difficult and he said.. "Whatever feels right.. you're pretty close! :lol: I was able to stabilize the dream pretty soon after that and flew out the window.. It was great!

Congrats! That's just great! :D

Oliver