Is there a guide on doing kriya yoga anywhere on the net?

[alwayson4]

Is there a guide on doing kriya yoga anywhere on the net?

[Tom]

The closest thing I know of is at http://www.thehomefoundation.com/Kriya.htm. Initiation is not given. As for the actual techniques, you should keep this in mind:


Before reading on, you should be aware that the Kriyas that I share are not identical to those of other Kriya Yoga organizations or teachers. Most of them are quite similar, and some are the same. Meditation upon the Holy Sound, Om, is a basic yogic practice that originated in India and is now practiced around the globe. Anyone who hears this primordial Sound consistently will be drawn into its enticing environment in a natural way.

The other Kriya Yoga places I tried wouldn't even answer yes / no questions without my having received a Kriya Yoga initiation first. They take no substitutes. The initiation itself is free of charge, but the prerequisite lectures never are.

If you've got $275 to spare - and I don't - this looks interesting: http://www.powerattunements.com/babaji.html

By interesting I mean that it is the closest thing I have seen to anyone offering a Kriya Yoga initiation at a distance, and I suspect that the "level 1" reference means that purchasers are not qualified to pass it on.

[alwayson4]

ok is there a book with kriya yoga how to instructions?

[ButterflyWoman]

Pardon me if this is stating the obvious, but have you tried a search on Amazon.com ?

[Tom]

Pardon me if this is stating the obvious, but have you tried a search on Amazon.com ?

The thing I was trying to avoid saying is that a book is still not going to help without initiation - and worst of all the key aspects are still being held back to be given orally at the time of that initiation. A great Kriya Yoga book will still be a car without key parts of the engine. It is really creepy the way those people can keep a secret.

[alwayson4]

why do you need initiation?

is there no book that reveals these inner secrets?

[Tom]

Why don't you try to get initiation first and see how that works out for you? Maybe there is an opportunity near you.

http://kriya.org/

http://www.kriya-yoga.org/

That second site links to a technique you can try to get started right away:

http://www.ananda.org/meditation/suppor ... nique.html (http://www.ananda.org/meditation/support/simplemedtechnique.html)

Anyway, here is one page which answers the question as to why a web site or book is not enough, and why initiation is necessary:

http://www.kriya-yoga.org/whatiskriya/initiation.html

[ButterflyWoman]

It is really creepy the way those people can keep a secret.

Hrm. I find that rather troubling, actually. I'm always suspicious of a sect or other group that has "spiritual secrets" that they keep hidden until you "ascend" high enough to be "allowed" to know them.

[Korpo]

Maybe it's just safety concerns. Each kind of energy work has possible side effects and safety mechanisms, and this is one of the reasons why knowledge was imparted only in the full package when a teacher is available.

Also many schools feel morally obliged to prevent teaching students that have not the necessary maturity. Qaballah would not be teached to students below the age 40 on principle, for example. Psychic powers and the true application of "Know Thyself" surely are not to be taken lightly.

Also there are sects and cults, but most of the schools and traditions really follow these two guidelines of safety - to make sure the whole package is taught and understood and the student is ready.

Oliver

[ButterflyWoman]

Oh, I'm not saying it's necessarily bad or dangerous. Just that it always makes me highly suspicious, that's all. ;)

[CFTraveler]

Couple of things to add- I too used to think that some things shouldn't be hidden, because it breeds cultism, but after 'I've seen what I've seen', I can understand why some people shouldn't be taught certain things, unless it can be known they're ready.
I just got done reading Autobiography of a Yogi, and from his description of what happens in an initiation you can figure out who can handle a samadhi experience, which according to my perception is what you get in an initiation if you are ready.
Imagine being 'shall we say' too young or too unstable to get one right off the bat without prior instruction?
Think of how many people come here terrified because they woke up to a spontaneous projection and think they were dying or were being attacked by some unseen entity?

In pre-2000 India, in a culture where everyone meditated as part of their daily routines, where they have an understanding of a greater reality and experience is expected, not looked at with suspicion (well, not too much), these initiations were precursors for instruction- so it doesn't surprise me that 'being led to it' isn't enough.

Of course, having to pay a hefty price for the instruction gives a different sting, but that's a whole 'nother theme.

[ButterflyWoman]

Of course, having to pay a hefty price for the instruction gives a different sting, but that's a whole 'nother theme.

Yes. That's actually more the sort of thing that bothers me, although I do always go "Hmmm" with any sort of "secret knowledge".

You make a good point though, about tremendous spiritual experiences and the totally unprepared. I nearly died from my spontaneous Kundalini awakening, so I certainly see what you mean. ;)

[Korpo]

But you are both comparing spontaneous experiences to ... what? Having the same experience after bad instruction or reading a book? Having the same experience after being taught by a competent and caring teacher? Not having the experience at all because the technique to induce it remains secret?

:?:

Oliver

[ButterflyWoman]

Initially, I was just saying that sects/groups/whatever that have "secret knowledge" tend to make me nervous.

Then I read what CFT said about people needing to be prepared for receiving major spiritual events, and conceded that it's entirely possible that some groups keep things guarded until they know an initiate is capable of withstanding the spiritual event.

[CFTraveler]

But you are both comparing spontaneous experiences to ... what? Having the same experience after bad instruction or reading a book? Having the same experience after being taught by a competent and caring teacher? Not having the experience at all because the technique to induce it remains secret?

:?:

Oliver
What???? *scratches head*
What OW said.
I'm not sure what the question was.

[alwayson4]

I did find a renegade guide to kriya yoga on the internet:


http://www.kriyayogainfo.net/

[Korpo]

I read a bit of the FAQ, and while I find the author's drive to overcome old thinking genuine, he is in some ways overeager and IMO not always factually correct - not about Kriya, but in general.

One answer seems to me like he doubts a direct mind teacher-student transmission is possible, even that attunements or other things are possible. While I can understand his desire to demystify, I don't believe that's accurate.

I believe a highly developed teacher (a master) can do exactly this - transmit into the student to let it blossom when the student is ready. I actually think this happens with all of us all the time, but subconsciously and uncoordinated. If somebody masters her or his own mind, then this process should become very refined. It is certainly possible to work with other people's energies and induce changes, and I think attunements do work as well. They do not work miracles, but all these things can speed up a person's development by giving it direction and a boost. IMO of course.

Still I like this author's attitude in general. :)

Oliver

[Nostic]

I can totally understand not wanting to give out certain knowledge to the general public. I can understand it although it has been kind of frustrating for me. I can't even count the number of times I've reread "The Science of Kriya Yoga" chapter in Autobiography of A Yogi. One thing I can say, as you develop along the path, the details of that chapter make more and more sense. You start understanding the concepts on deeper levels.
Frankly, I imagine if I were self-realized, I'd only give the fine details of my knowledge to those who were extremely serious about the path they're taking.

[Tom]

I can totally understand not wanting to give out certain knowledge to the general public. I can understand it although it has been kind of frustrating for me. I can't even count the number of times I've reread "The Science of Kriya Yoga" chapter in Autobiography of A Yogi. One thing I can say, as you develop along the path, the details of that chapter make more and more sense. You start understanding the concepts on deeper levels.
Frankly, I imagine if I were self-realized, I'd only give the fine details of my knowledge to those who were extremely serious about the path they're taking.

Try comparing that technique with the microcosmic orbit meditation from chi kung. Babaji imported it from them into Kriya Yoga. The chakras are associated with planets and different sections of the orbit are associated with constellations. In the Kriya Yoga version of the microcosmic orbit a single time through the orbit is a full year of "natural evolution" compressed into thirty seconds. The thing is, there are a lot of other details I was unable to patch in. I couldn't even get yes/no answers about this because I have not received Kriya Yoga initiation. They wouldn't take what I have received as an equivalent. It just seems weird to me that they have been so successful in being able to keep anyone from truly spilling the beans. All I have been able to do has been to chase shadows.

[Korpo]

Frankly, I imagine if I were self-realized, I'd only give the fine details of my knowledge to those who were extremely serious about the path they're taking.

Begs the question: Why?

Oliver

[Nick----]

As a kriyaban that been initiated by an organization (I started with SRF but ended up dealing with Ananda), I now feel that these organizations are flawed but also serve a great purpose. Looking into the history of Kriya it becomes obvious that Lahiri Mahasaya, who received these techniques from directly from Babaji, taught Kriya in many, many different ways. As a true guru does, he gave people their individual perscription, not just varying different amounts of certain pranayams, but also different ways of doing them. Not only that but, Sri Yukteswar changed some things, and then Yoganandaji (who brought Kriya to the west) changed even more things (he also changed some of Sri Yukteswar's alterations back to Lahiri's methods). This starts to seem pretty confusing but each teacher is trying to give his students what they need.

The Kriya techniques vary from simple to very complex, and require different amounts of spiritual advancement to even be successful. The secrecy is based on the tradition that things that are valuable and sacred should be protected. Also without working with someone that has experience with Kriya it is hard to understand or practice effectively. As I begin to delve deeper into these techniques I get frustrated with the organizations because they have become somewhat locked into what Yogananda taught, without realizing that everyone is different. From talking to different kriyabans from different lineages I have made alterations to my practice that have been very beneficial, but are different from what Yogananda taught in his official lessons. Yogananda also taught some disciples things that he never wrote about. This is why so much of the Kriya literature stresses the fact that one needs regular contact with a true guru to help them along the way. I am actually traveling to India in the fall to search for some advanced Kriya teachers to recieve some personal instruction. I think Yogananda gave many people a great gift by making Kriya available through an organization since many will never have the time or chance to find an advanced teacher, but I also feel that one who is serious about these practices needs to work with someone who can give personal attention.

As a sidenote I should say that some of Robert Bruce's methods are very similar to certain Kriya techniques. I think this is because there is a science of energy and anyone who studies it will come to many of the same conclusions. I don't do much NEW energy work anymore because I find Kriya to be more powerful and spiritual for myself, but everyone needs something different which is why there are so many different paths. If you are actually interested in pursuing Kriya Yoga, I would say that you should be prepared to live a disciplined life. The rewards are great but it takes a lot of time and energy to practice at first.

[ButterflyWoman]

Frankly, I imagine if I were self-realized, I'd only give the fine details of my knowledge to those who were extremely serious about the path they're taking.
It's been my observation that you can talk about all manner of spiritual truths with people who aren't "there yet" (or never will be "there") and they just look at you like a deer in headlights. They have no clue what you're talking about. So long as you're not giving specifics of technique for invoking some sort of spiritual event, you can talk all you want and give as many details of spiritual experiences as you want and it just sounds like "yadda yadda yadda" to the uninitiated.

Note: I don't mean to sound like I think I'm some sort of great guru with amazing spiritual knowledge. The post might sound that way, but it's not what I intend to imply. :) I can say that I do have some kinds of spiritual experience and knowledge that most people don't, but that's true of most people on this forum. ;)

[CFTraveler]

Nick----; Do you give initiations, or how does this work?
Or you would you tell me (via pm) in what way Kriya is like NEW? Whatever you feel comforable divulging, of course.

[Nick----]

No, I have only been practicing Kriya intensely for a couple years. Traditionally, one's guru has to give one permission to initiate others. This is usually done after years and years of practice (usually somewhere between 10-20 years) and sometimes never. The guru, during initiation, places the spiritual eye on the initiate. This is where they touch someone's forehead so that they may perceive the light (in the form of a golden halo around a field of deep blue with a five pointed white star in the middle) of the third-eye. This is where there is some conflict between Yogananda-based organizations (SRF, Ananda) and most all other lines. Yogananda devotees say that experienced Kriya teachers can act as a channel for Yogananda to do this, where most all other lines say one's living guru must do this. The "placing" or "opening" of the spiritual eye is supposed to help one progress more rapidly, as well as establish a relationship with the guru. But based on my own experience of being initiated at Ananda, I did not see any more light than I usually do during the initiation. That light was sporadic and blurry, but since practicing Kriya for 2-3 hours a day, I have started to perceive the spiritual eye more clearly, even sometimes seeing the gold and blue circle with the star in the middle. It seems to me that whether initiated by a "guru" or not, one receives immense benefit from doing Kriya. It is just more confusing to work on my practice without someone to help me along. I have had some super-conscious dreams and OBE experiences involving Yogananda, Sri Yukteswar, and Lahiri Mahasaya at different times but never was any specific instruction given. These experiences were uplifting but the only communication was Yogananda saying, "keep going", in a powerful dream that happened while I was debating with myself about getting initiated.

As far as connection between Kriya and NEW, it is really about becoming aware of the movement of energy in the body and how to manipulate that energy. Just as in most schools of yoga, the stimulation of the chakras is important as well. Without going into too much detail, Kriya is focused on the spine and working with energy there. Even if there was an extensive book written on Kriya techniques it would be hard to practice them well without working with someone experienced. This is mainly why I obverse some secrecy while describing Kriya; also sometimes practicing pranayama wrong has led to severe mental problems. The Kriya initiate has their Kriya checked on regularly for this reason. Anyway, I feel similar sensations from doing full body circuits and chakra stimulation in NEW as I do with Kriya practice, but I don't feel it is as powerful personally. Although I like NEW because it is nice to do when I am not in a meditative state, i.e. while driving, reading, etc.
I hope thats not too much information for you CF.

[alwayson4]

Nick, is the ultimate goal of kriya to raise the kundalini?

[Tom]

Kundalini is like having electricity. The goal isn't having electricity; it's running your coffee maker and your computer and the other various appliances. There are stages along the way in Kriya Yoga and Kundalini is used to reach them, but having Kundalini does not automatically make them happen any more than having electricity directly translates into a mug of coffee with a shot of espresso in it.

[CFTraveler]

Expresso....mmm....
Just ignore me Tom, I know how irritating these little posts of mine are.

[Nick----]

As Tom said, kundalini is just something that happens along the way. As with all yogic paths, the goal of Kriya is samadhi, or oneness with the Divine. And not to just have this experience in meditation but to take it with you at all times. Also the goal of Kriya is the burning up of karma, so that one doesn't have to return to the cycle of life and death unless one wants to.

[Korpo]

Frankly, I was a bit pissed off after reading the "Kriya" chapter in Yogananda's book. It just sounds like "This is it, everything else is second class."

Then again, practically every teacher sounds like that. Begs the question - do the teachers really think in such "competitive" terms, in comparisons, in "mine is more spiritual than yours"? Or do they rather each simply ensure their own students who get drawn to them that what they are doing is right... actually right for them, not right for everyone, but everyone wants to hear that they are learning *the* best way, right?

I mean, Yogananda describes the way of sitting in stillness as inferior and Kriya as a science, but I am pretty sure that there are people who use stillness to actually scientifically peel apart their mind to reveal everything that can be known from meditation. So - who is more scientific? (Trick question alert! ;) )

I'm not too sure of this, but I think everyone needs their own set of tools for cultivating their spiritual side. There's no superior way. But then again, would it not be uninspiring for many to know this?

Oliver

[alwayson4]

I mean, Yogananda describes the way of sitting in stillness as inferior and Kriya as a science,
Oliver

Same exact thing is said about Buddist candali practice. You did not give Yogananda's subsequent explanation of why kriya yoga is better than simple meditation. But anyway, that exact same reason is again seen in Buddist candali (kundalini) practice.


kriya yoga, in general, uses the same techniques as NEW, Buddist practices.

Heck, I even recently learned that kechari mudra, which is key to kriya yoga practice, is also part of Buddist practice.

Therefore you would have to call NEW and buddist practices ultimate as well. Its all the same stuff. At each chakra, in buddist and kriya yoga systems, you insert mantras for example. I could go on and on, about the similarites. They are essentially the same!

So I think Yogananda IS possibly justified by calling kriya yoga the ultimate, especially if you realize the similarities with some of the highest teachings in buddism.

[Korpo]

I could not disagree more.

These are just things that boost your practice a bit. Kechari mudra, working specific channels, mantras - all of these are just doohickeys that boost the essential practice, not the secret of it all. The essential practices are usually way simpler but infinitely harder to master.

If you learn to meditate, everything else is just an addition in terms of energy work. Not the other way round. In fact, I believe many booster techniques can lead to risks if not approached with sufficient skill in the core practice. There are no shortcuts, no magical tricks, no "secrets of it all".

The claim of this and that is equivalent to "one year of spiritual evolution" made in the "Autobiography" is so deep into the hogwash range, I momentarily lost interest in reading the book.

Oliver

[Nick----]

I feel like it has become more obvious throughout my life that different people need different things. In an infinite world it makes sense there are infinite ways to reach the divine. Kriya doesn't resonate with deifferent people and its not good with for them, its the same with every practice. I think I've said it before on this site, but I've known plenty of Kriya practicioners that are total assholes. Yeah that's a judgement but I'me being honest with my experience. No one thing will bring everyone to God. or maybe it will, I could be wrong....

[CFTraveler]

I'm going to look at this from a different perspective- when Kriya came to the west, (or Yogananda, to be more accurate) India and Hinduism were very mysterious and from a historical perspective, I believe that Hindu Mysticism was going through some sort of 'rebirth', or reworking- concepts ignored by traditional hinduism were again looked at, and there was a movement towards looking at the metaphysics of the religion, in a similar way that we are now looking at western religions from a metaphysical standpoint, out in the open, not as a part of a 'mystery school'- and you can see that culturally they (Hindu mystics) were reconciling what they knew about physical reality (as uncovered by science at the time) with what they had learned from centuries of religious training-for example, the correlation of physical organs (of the central nervous system) to the energetic chakra system was a complement that they could bring here to the west. So I can reasonably assume that when they wrote that kriya was 'the ultimate' path they really believed it, in the context of their own culture and what they were learning about ours.
I think it's somehow similar to how we now equate discoveries in quantum science (as understood by the average person) to 'metaphysical theories' that have been around for a while in the subject of mysticism and cosmology.
We may not specifically believe that A or B technique is 'the way to go' towards self realization, but we do believe (in general) that we are getting a clue about it. So it's not really that different.
So sure, nothing is guaranteed to do anything, especially in the manifested world- but it's exciting for those to find something that works for them, and that prompts them to want to share it.
The rest of the stuff that goes with it is, I guess, a natural progression of 'where we're at', socio-culturally and possibly spiritually speaking.

[alwayson4]

I could not disagree more.

These are just things that boost your practice a bit. Kechari mudra, working specific channels, mantras - all of these are just doohickeys that boost the essential practice, not the secret of it all. The essential practices are usually way simpler but infinitely harder to master.

If you learn to meditate, everything else is just an addition in terms of energy work. Not the other way round. In fact, I believe many booster techniques can lead to risks if not approached with sufficient skill in the core practice. There are no shortcuts, no magical tricks, no "secrets of it all".

The claim of this and that is equivalent to "one year of spiritual evolution" made in the "Autobiography" is so deep into the hogwash range, I momentarily lost interest in reading the book.

Oliver

You have a huge bias against kechari mudra, a mudra you could probably obtain in a week, if you really tried.

Secondly, mantras are not magic. They are supposed to keep you from daydreaming during the chakra practice, keep attention high etc. Even Robert Bruce has spoken repeatedly on the power of affirmations, and uses the mantra OM for the high level projection technique in Astral Dynamics. Also, he has mentioned one of the key features of kundalini raising is AUUMMM vibrating in the heart center.

Third, all eastern traditions state energy body practice is superior to regular meditation. What is meditation going to give beyond the preliminary insight that you are not the thoughts, but the awareness behind the thoughts? I am not against meditation, but all traditions maintain energy body practice is faster. Plus correct energy body practice is done during meditation anyway.