Project at will?

[JoSac]

I just read about a psychiatrist that when talking to a patient, would appear to fall asleep, but would actually project. She would listen to the patient throught the astral, and when the were done, she would awake instantly and give them feedback or what ever they do.

It said she gifted and could project just about any place, even with a lot of noise around. Do u think with consistent practice this would be possible?

Thnaks JS

[CFTraveler]

I do indeed think it's possible, if this person is naturally gifted. But highly unlikely, though.

[Jake]

I do imagine it possible. Maybe with natural ability and PERFECT discipline and routine and lifestyle... Maybe some monk, on some mountain, in Tibet or somewhere... (forgive me, not trying to stereotype) :oops: I am more speaking to the traditions of Ancient Buddhists, and thier obvious respect for DISCIPLINE , and NATUARAL ABILITY... :)

[JoSac]

Well from what i understand this lady lived in the US and was a physcitrist, i don't know what her lifestyle is like though.

I read it in Robert Monroes Journey out of body. Im sure some of you have read this.

But some of the things he says kind of contradict R.B.. I know this is an older book, but it seems to me he dosen't do anything but lie down, then shortly after vibrations come in.

Oh ya im back on MAP. I just did it like 10 min ago and could feel some vibrations but didn't go for the exit. Idk y, just didn't feel right.

Thanks JS

[CFTraveler]

But some of the things he says kind of contradict R.B.. I know this is an older book, but it seems to me he dosen't do anything but lie down, then shortly after vibrations come in.


Thanks JS Not at all. The first book describes the technique he uses to project, and it definitely isn't just laying down and waiting for vibrations. Remember that when he's describing the adventures he had, he's not going to continually describe the pre-exit process over and over: It would be too boring.
IIRC he puts himself into a trance first, then does some spatial visualizations to externalize his energy body (he calls it 'calling the vibrations' or something like that) and also remember that he had his first spontaneous projection after months of experimenting with cerebral hemisynchronization technology that he was developing for other purposes.

[CFTraveler]

In fact, here is the technique as related by Ashes from the EIC:

Monroe's method:
"First lie down in a darkened room in any comfortable position, but with your head pointing to magnetic north. Loosen clothing and remove any jewellery or metal objects, but be sure to stay warm. Ensure that you will not be disturbed and are not under any limitation of time. Begin by relaxing and then repeat to yourself five times, 'I will consciously perceive and remember all that I encounter during this relaxation procedure. I will recall in detail when I am completely awake only those matters which will be beneficial to my physical and mental being.' Then begin breathing through your half-open mouth.

The next step involves entering the state bordering sleep (the hypnagogic state). Monroe does not recommend any particular method of achieving this state. One method you might try is to hold your forearm up, while keeping your upper arm on the bed, or ground. As you start to fall asleep, your arm will fall, and you will awaken again. With practice you can learn to control the hypnagogic state without using your arm. Another method is to concentrate on an object. When other images start to enter your thoughts, you have entered the hypnagogic state. Passively watch these images. This will also help you maintain this state of near-sleep. Monroe calls this Condition A.

After first achieving this state Monroe recommends to deepen it. Begin to clear your mind and observe your field of vision through your closed eyes. Do nothing more for a while. Simply look through your closed eyelids at the blackness in front of you. After a while, you may notice light patterns. These are simply neural discharges and they have no specific effect. Ignore them. When they cease, one has entered what Monroe calls Condition B. From here, one must enter an even deeper state of relaxation which Monroe calls Condition C -- a state of such relaxation that you lose all awareness of the body and sensory stimulation. You are almost in a void in which your only source of stimulation will be your own thoughts. The ideal state for leaving your body is Condition D. This is Condition C when it is voluntarily induced from a rested and refreshed condition and is not the effect of normal fatigue. To achieve Condition D, Monroe suggests that you practice entering it in the morning or after a short nap.

With eyes closed look into the blackness at a spot about a foot from your forehead, concentrating your consciousness on that point. Move it gradually to three feet away, then six, and then turn it 90 degrees upward, reaching above your head. Monroe orders you to reach for the vibrations at that spot and then mentally pull them into your head. He explains how to recognize them when they occur. 'It is as if a surging, hissing, rhythmically pulsating wave of fiery sparks comes roaring into your head. From there it seems to sweep throughout your body, making it rigid and immobile.' This method is easier than it sounds.

Once you have achieved the vibrational state you have to learn to control it, to smooth out the vibrations by 'pulsing' them. At this point, Monroe warns it is impossible to turn back. He suggests reaching out an arm to grasp some object which you know is out of normal reach. Feel the object and then let your hand pass through it, before bringing it back, stopping the vibrations and checking the details and location of the object. This exercise will prepare you for full separation.

To leave the body Monroe advocates the 'lift-out' method. To employ this method think of getting lighter and of how nice it would be to float upwards. An alternative is the 'rotation' technique in which you turn over in bed, twisting first the top of the body, head and shoulders until you turn right over and float upwards. Later you can explore further. With sufficient practice Monroe claims that a wide variety of experiences are yours for the taking." http://www.explorations-in-consciousnes ... e-faq.html (http://www.explorations-in-consciousness.com/obe-faq.html)

[Korpo]

I personally believe it is possible.

Please take my personal thoughts on this as they are, as an opinion, but it is my conviction from reading and personal experience - I have good reason to believe what I write now. You don't have to believe it, or can think it is hogwash, be my guest. :)

So...

I think within us for many abilities we think are hard to achieve or need years of training there are switches to make them happen just like that. They are subtle, and we generally have no awareness of their existence, but they are there. Since we never learned to use them everything seems hard, and I think many of the existing practices hit the respective switch in just a very complicated way.

I think below it is not complicated or hard, but very, very simple. Our minds are usually to cluttered to realise this, and we take our habits from the physical world, where we expect things to be hard and require effort, and transpose this over the situation about mental powers. When you know how to flip the switch it just gets very, very easy.

I have three examples that I think support my case in this, one of Bruce Moen and two of my own:

Bruce Moen does not project but phase. While he has developed certain rituals for achieving this, it seems to me when observing his observations ( ;) ) that the rituals get less and less and he simply switches his mind from one state of consciousness to another just by remembering how the state feels, exactly as the TMI people do recommend nowadays. This is instantaneous and requires basically not much effort, but a previous knowledge of the state. After getting the balance between recall, interpretation and simply experiencing these things right, it seems to me that his ability to experience these things is no longer limited and can be exercised in a way others might think it takes effort or a precise exercise regimen for. But I think all he did before just led him to find the right switches.

My own experience was that of being dropped into a state of pure awareness from one moment to another in a state of mental exhaustion. Separate from emotions, thoughts and ego I could perceive that these were not me. It is usually assumed that such experiences happen to very experienced meditators which I am not. When analysing the experience later on I realised that there is a connection between awareness and all the things it gets lost in that can be disconnected just like that. I noticed that I had just hit a switch in a place of my mind I am not used to, that is was just a "simple" act of letting go of this awareness-ego connection that immediately led into a state way deeper than I ever expected.

I realised I had done in some moment a thing spontaneously I did not know I could and do not know how I did, but the fact remains that the switch is there and can be flipped and I can switch to a totally different mode of perception from one moment to another. It seems to me that just the preocupation of my mind with other things prevents doing this. I think that's why people sometimes spontaneously learn a skill from meditation they cannot pinpoint how they do it, because they found the switch, and now operate with limited consciousness of doing it.

And lastly, when I sat in my office, closed my eyes, and just did a quick counting into Focus 12 without much expectations into it I just flipped into a state of my mind drifting in the same place as my body. I had hit another switch, and instantly my awareness had phased from state "conscious in my body" to "conscious out of phase with my body" so quickly, it took me time to realise it happened!

All these switches I described come without great fanfare, they are just there. I think all the phenomena in between are part of finding the switch, but when you have the switch the ritual becomes unnecessary more and more. I believe that many people continue believe in rituals and techniques way after they need them anymore. If everything required rituals all the time, or was complicated, this changes from instant to instant shouldn't be possible. But they happen. Weirder things happen and are documented.

And therefore I believe it should be possible, without being a monk or having an extreme energy work regimen, to project instantly and at will. And I believe the major difficulties preventing us are that we believe in things to be harder than they are and our unawareness of the switches within.

Take good care,
Oliver

[kiwibonga]

Argh... I wrote a big post, and then my wireless connection died on me, and then one thing led to another and the post went to heaven.

I was talking about Monroe... Actually, it's accurate to say that he just went to sleep and projected automatically -- it kept happening spontaneously, and thanks to that, he went on to research it. He would basically go to sleep and project most of the time. For him, the techniques are only for intentional exits.

I firmly believe that he acquired the ability to project at will from his sleep-learning tapes, which he worked on before he started projecting. It does the exact same thing as the falling arm "trick" mentioned in his technique; but it's actually even more effective. It keeps feeding ideas into your brain. It keeps you borderline-awake, especially if your intention is placed on listening and memorizing. It forces you to try and see how much you can recall once you're up.

I recommend that everyone give sleep-learning (listening to audio books while asleep) a try. It's the perfect recipe for success.

[CFTraveler]

For him, the techniques are only for intentional exits.But that's what J.S. is talking about.

[beone]

I just read about a psychiatrist that when talking to a patient, would appear to fall asleep, but would actually project. She would listen to the patient throught the astral, and when the were done, she would awake instantly and give them feedback or what ever they do.

It said she gifted and could project just about any place, even with a lot of noise around. Do u think with consistent practice this would be possible?



It is absolutely possible to project from a fully awake state, but you need to be in a super-focused state. I personally know three people who achieved this, although I must add that they were not intending to project, it just happened.

The first person achieved this while practicing martial arts. He was just so into it that he was not even thinking about what he was doing anymore, he eventually noticed that he was watching himself practice from above. This really freaked him out because he didn't know anything about obe. Confirmed and true story.

The second person is a girl who is very knowledgeable about obe. Almost a professional snowboarder. She claims to have been able to project while snowboarding and to see herself do 360's from above. While I don't doubt this, I am not able to absolutely confirm this, and so I can only take her word from it.

The third person is my wife, who will find herself looking down at herself from above while doing yoga. I know this for a fact (she is my wife after all), because the first time it happened she freaked out and ran outside, very disturbed. While her physical self was sitting down in a kneeling/praying position, her awareness was from above and she could see her physical self... but there was a mirror right next to her so she could also see the reflection in it, and this was perhaps a bit too confusing and maybe too much for the first episode. Anyway that has happened on several occasions, but it just seems to happen, and not by a forced attempt.


These kinds of projections do not include any of the common side effects that we experience while doing traditional trance/sleep exits, so I question/wonder whether it is AP or perhaps a different kind of expanded awareness state (who said that AP is the only way to project your consciousness?)




Monroe's method:
"First lie down in a darkened room in any comfortable position, but with your head pointing to magnetic north..... Then begin breathing through your half-open mouth.



:lol: Haha yes, I remember after reading this that I would always try and lay down in a northward position. It seems pretty funny now for some reason. Also trying to keep my mouth half-open... I focused more on that then on the actual obe-procedures!

But......... Monroe's above method did work for me on the very first try (not obe but vibrations came). That's when I knew that this was for real.

[CFTraveler]

After years of practice, I frequently project awake (like this morning, for example) but I don't think it's so much about focus as control. I opened my eyes once (stupidly) for example, and came back. I do it a lot now, and have to make sure I don't even breathe hard, because the slightest movement can cause me to snap out of it, and this causes movement issues of my energy body- relying on floating to go up and will to go forward, for example. So if you can do it while in MABA I highly recommend it- you'll have more freedom of movement and the experience will prob. last longer, IMO
And no, I can't project at will- I've come close, but not anywhere near 100%, so I'm no 'master'.

[JoSac]

I just got back from Maine on a snowboarding trip.

But i have yet to get to the part where he talks about the projection technique. Ill post on what i thought he was contradicting about later. Im very tired and not thinking straight.

JS

[CFTraveler]

Hi JS. I think it was either chapter 12 or 17. I don't have the book anymore so I can't look it up for you.
I hope you had fun- I haven't seen snow in like 5 years. :cry:

[JoSac]

Ya i did, i love the snow but im all regenerated now.

I still havent read that part, but what i was talking about i think was robert's talk about the locale's.

Locale I- seems to be the RTZ
LocaleII-seems to be the astral proper
LocaleIII- he descried it to be a whole other world, where when you enter, you take over the body of someone who lives there, and interact in their life.

I figure this would be the level above the astal according to R.B., but Monroe sees it different.

Any ideas

JS

[CFTraveler]

Ya i did, i love the snow but im all regenerated now.

I still havent read that part, but what i was talking about i think was robert's talk about the locale's.

Locale I- seems to be the RTZ
LocaleII-seems to be the astral proper
LocaleIII- he descried it to be a whole other world, where when you enter, you take over the body of someone who lives there, and interact in their life.

I figure this would be the level above the astal according to R.B., but Monroe sees it different.

Any ideas

JS Well, I've done all the above, and I'm pretty sure there's a lot I haven't done. I don't know if this makes any sense to you. But what I'm trying to say is that I'm sure there is a lot more to discover than just three locales. BTW, there is a thread here somewhere that compares the areas as the Roberts see it. (Both Monroe and Bruce). I'll see if I can find it.

[CFTraveler]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10282&st=0&sk=t&sd=a (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10282&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)
There you go. Don't take anything too seriously. Robert's comment was quite apt, IMO.