Serious Help

[rapidlearner]

Hi

[journyman161]

First, well done! You have made the most important step of learning how to stop letting this thing control you. Admitting there is a problem is the inescapable first step along the path you need to take. And it is a path. You are embarking on a journey that usually has no end - it is the journey that matters, not the destination. This is about learning your limitations & moving past them. About understanding yourself more completely & finding ways to disable the negatives that bring you down.

First, where do you gamble? That is important because if it is (say) down the local gambling place it is easier to deal with (slightly) than if you're doing it from your PC. For example, you could go down to the place & tell them you wish to be barred from gambling there.

Assuming it is somewhere outside, why do you go there? Can those needs be addressed in other ways? If boredom takes you down the pub & you then get involved on the pokies, you could look for more productive ways to fight the boredom.

If you are doing this from your PC, you could get one of the net-watcher programs & list the gambling sites as forbidden. Yes you can get around the barring, but you have to work at it - that will involve thinking & that gives your ratioal self a chance to break it off.

You need to realise that this is an addiction, but that it isn't the gambling to which you're addicted. It is the situation causing the gambling, or the emotional state that is affected by the gambling that is the real addiction. This is not like a physical addiction where the body requires the chemicals & screams the need along your nerves - this is controlling you for another reason, one you need to look inside for & find just what it is you're feeling just before you go out & gamble. That's the point of addiction. That situation or emotion or thought-pattern is what is causing the need to hand your money over.

I don't know what the cause for you is. It may be a cultural thing (the Vietnamese have a cultural imperative to gamble) or it may be despair, or a drive to ensure you hit rock bottom before you can be 'saved'. There are many reasons for developing behaviour patterns that harm us or change who we wish to be. But they can be dealt with & we can alter who we are to better match who we wish to be.

Something that may help you along the path is that it takes 21 days to alter habits - 21 days of doing something makes it a natural part of us. This was discovered by researching people who had plastic surgery - across the board it took them 3 weeks to get over the 'shock' of seeing their new selves in the mirror. So if you can interrupt your gambling predilection for 3 weeks, you will have a new pattern instilled, a new reaction overlaying the 'got to throw my money away' pattern you now exhibit.

You might also try the Ninja technique. see this forum (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8419) for details, but basically what you do is focus on the gambling, find the need for it & gather in the emotions associated with it, making it all a package. Then move it away from you, 'out there' where you can see it as a package & imagine a cord reaching from it to you, to your chest where the ache happens. Then take a sword, an axe, or a bloody big knife, & cut the cord.

I don't know if just doing that technique will actually deal with the problem entirely - I do know it will at least reduce the imperative to enact the pattern & give you a chance to reach behind it all & deal with the root causes.

Best wishes on your travels

Journyman

[rapidlearner]

Thanks for that Journeyman, you got me thinking deeper than the surface of this.

I usually go to the local betting shop. Weekends is the most common time as my excuse is to have a small bet on a sports event that day. Although, every day now seems like a big sports event is occuring. I'm usually free during the day so I say to myself I'll do it while I go and buy buy some milk as its amongst other shops. The worst thing is, there is a cash withdrawal machine amongst the shops.

So I go in... do a small sports bet and then put whatever change I have into one of the machines (I don't know if anyone has been to a betting shop lately but they now have very high tech machines that are very very popular.)... I usually play roulette. And lose. As soon as I lose... I go straight to the cash machine outside to withdraw money thinking that if I put it back into the roulette machine, its bound to pay out. BTW, these roulette machines are very popular because they DO payout quite frequently and its quite common for regulars to put in say $300 and come away with $2000. But no excuses becuase the odds are against us and we normally lose what ever we put in.

This is really weird... I think I'm actually addicted to losing. For example, today I was up about $150 after putting in £30... (where I should have quit anyway) and I said to myself, if I go below $100 I'm going to take it and run... So I gambled $25 dollars and lost, then went for my last $25 dollars and lost again and there I was at $100 up. But instead of collecting it, I thought why not bet big one last time and I gambled $50 but lost leaving me with $50. My impulse was just to bet big again and it would be sure to pay out but as you can probably guess, I lost and I was down to zero... I ran to the cash machine to withdraw money and withdrew $100. To cut a long story short I put it all in. At one point I was up about $60 but it all cam crumbling back down to zero.

The reason I think I'm addicted to losing is because I don't feel excited winning but as soon as I walk out to go home, I get this sinking feeling Its like a mass of regret and stupidity rolled into one bullet that shoots me in the head. It lurks and mocks but does die down eventually. I don't enjoy the feeling at all but I think I'm addicted to it.

Thankfully, I don't bet online anymore. I don't have a credit card, I only have a card that takes the money directly out of the account and I keep that very low e.g. $20. I only top it up if I want to buy something specific online.

The Ninja style might not be what Im looking for as I think I might also be addicted to the act of competing. And I need to maintain that competitiveness in other areas of my life. I think, if I can tune my addictive qualities into something more proactive then it will help me in positive ways. For example, I think I may have the ability to be addicted to saving money or even making more money than being addicted to gambling money.

So when do I gamble? Actually its when I feel emotionally quite high. Like an invincible mindset. Its like I think I have control not to spend to much money that day (but I don't). A heavy loss kind of gives me the motivation to not go for a while.

But how on earth did I become addicted to losing? I don't like the chemical reaction and the feeling of bitterness thats involved with it. So why am I going back and back again to repeat the feeling? Unless I'm addicted to motviation and its the only way to obtain it? which is silly cause I have lots of things to be motivated in life about (offspring being one of them). I'm not addicted to throwing money away generally, e.g. If I go food shopping, I wont pay over the odds for a can of beans, I don't buy expensive clothes or splash out on anything really. Its just that the gambling mode enables me to lose all sense of value and its bloody evil. Gambling should be made illegal all over the world, its just too easy to get sucked in.

Sorry for the rants. This is kind of self therapuetic as I haven't told any friends or family about this. But I'm determined to break the mode.

[CFTraveler]

It sounds to me that you are doing it to punish yourself. Is there something specific that you feel you need to be punished for? (Don't tell me, tell yourself).

[ButterflyWoman]

Well, at the risk of sounding totally mundane, you might well consider looking up a support group for compulsive gamblers. These are people who know exactly what happens when you get out of control, and they have lots of great advice on how to curb the behaviour and heal the underlying drives that lead to the addiction/compulsion.

You have my deepest compassion on this. Being in the grip of compulsive or addictive behaviour is not pleasant, to put it mildly (I've not had the gambling problem, but I've had plenty of other compulsive/addictive behaviours to deal with).

Sending positive, healing thoughts.

[journyman161]

First the bad news. I don't think a transference of addictive behaviour will be either easy or a solution. It's the addictive patterns that need to be addressed - finding a different way to express them doesn't seem like an easy thing to do.

Addiction is self-destructive & self-destructive behaviour patterns seem to usually be linked with early life problems & self-image issues. It may be worth finding some way to go back over your early life & find the moments of pain & trauma - note that you do NOT do this by sitting down alone & thinking of all the bad things in your life - that is a sure way to depression & will make things worse, not better. Healer, shaman, counsellor or a wise friend can help; meditation is slower but also will lead into areas of difficulty. You might also try energy work as presented by Robert Bruce - getting energy flows happening past blocks will often release the buried trauma causing the blocks.

Definitely find a GA group & join up - as suggested above, they are there to support & many of the members have destroyed lives before getting to the point you've reached.

And the Ninja technique is not meant to handle the situation, just detach you from it enough to allow you to work on it. And I would definitely go to the betting shop & ask them to bar you. If you find something else to do instead of the roulette machine, it might help you stay away. Exercise gets good chemicals flwoing & also provides a positive thing to do. Find other things to fill your days & do your shopping at other times & places.

You can do it, unless you stop yourself. You imply there are immediate family members. Try making a solemn vow to yourself that, unless you have stopped gambling in (say) 3 months, you will tell your family that you have a problem.

[rapidlearner]

Thanks guys, thats a lot to think about.

[journyman161]

Sometimes we just need someone to hold the mirror for us.

Best wishes & do it well - for you and yours...

[rapidlearner]

Just thought I'd give an update on the gambling problem...

It creeped back up on me again slowly and I think a big win (of $1300) put me in the stupid mindset that I can actually beat the bookie. That win went in less than two weeks and I'm now in debt again.

I tried hypnosis which seemed to work for a week but then I found myself back in the betting shop. I have another appointment to see the hypnotherapist but i don't know how effective it is.

It is about will power, I know. And sitting here right now I have no feeling of gambling at all (maybe cause I just lost a bundle today) but when I feel high and in good spirits, the invincible, impulsive mindset emerges and I find myself betting again. Even though I know its wrong!!

Every time I say its the last time, it never is. I've said it millions of times. I'm saying it now, today, that I wont gamble again. Can I guarantee that I wont fall off the wagon? :|

[CFTraveler]

I don't think that it's a matter of willpower at all. Willpower comes in when you actually want to stop, and from what you've said before I get the message "I want to stop but I don't want to stop". So I guess what I would ask you, is to ask yourself what postive thing you are getting from this- positive not in a good way, but in an ego-stroking way. What is the real payoff?
BTW, did you join any organization such as Gamblers Anon?

[rapidlearner]

I haven't joined any organisations to be honest. I think because I always tell myself that its the last time and I don't feel the need to encounter a problem that isn't currently there. Its a strange condition as its not like a yearning addiction like drugs. Its an impulsive reaction on the spare of the moment (only on a regular basis.)

What positives not in a good way? I'm not sure I understand the question. For me positive = good. I suppose the main positives than can occur is being financially better off than when walking in to the betting shop. Egotistically...Hmmm... I don't know, maybe its control. Control that I outwitted the bookie. Control that win or lose its my responsibility. Control that I can escape reality and lose sense of time and physical world responsibilities. Maybe its massaging my dreams ego, where I have a scenario of what I would do with a certain amount of money if I won it. I'm not sure.

The real pay off is that it creates a mess in the real world.

Aaaahhh... This is frustrating me because I know how stupid I've been. Wreckless is a better word.

[CFTraveler]

I think you answered the question yourself.
Not positive but 'feels like you get something out of it'.
Control as something you think you will get but actually control you lose willingly. After all it is liberating to get so low that you have nothing else to lose. That seems to be the payoff. So I guess you need to address that, in your own way, or in a way that doesn't destroy you and those you love.
Btw, you're not being stupid, you're being human. We all do stuff that is not good for us- it's just that the drive to do so is stronger in some people than others.
I hope you can get the help you need. And I do urge you to get help- not because you need help, but because you need support, and a GA (or whatever they're called) group will give you that support.
God Bless, hon, we're all there in some way.

[Mystikal]

I have no real training or experience with this sort of thing, so I may be completely off-base, but here are my thoughts.

It seems to me that personal problems - illnesses, in a way - produce symptoms to call your attention to them. Fixing the problem will remove the symptoms; however, for various reasons, people often hide the problem and suppress the symptoms. This may seem to work for a time, but the problem won't stay benignly removed. It will remanifest itself with different symptoms, symptoms which can be even harder to fix as they have no obvious connection to the now-hidden problem.

I don't think gambling is your problem. You've recognized the gambling. You dislike it, you want it gone. If gambling were the source of the problem, you would no longer have any desire for it. Yet you find yourself still wanting to gamble, and still gambling. This indicates to me that your problems have some other source - something which you have not recognized yet, something that may be forgotten, or perhaps something you do not want to recognize.

How to find the source of the problem is something I do not know, but I may know things which could lead you to it.

Gambling is not evil. Believing that gambling is evil will not help you. The compulsion to gamble is simply a message from the problem deeper within yourself. If you do manage to suppress the compulsion somehow, you may find only momentary relief, quickly followed by the appearance of a new, perhaps more destructive, and seemingly unrelated compulsion or other symptom.

What you must do is listen to the compulsion you have now. Perhaps meditate and try to evoke that feeling, try to understand it while not being overwhelmed or controlled by it. Perhaps even set aside a certain amount of money for gambling, and gamble regularly with it, so you can allow this feeling to express itself in a safer, more controlled, and less destructive way.

(Trying your best to not gamble at all has, so far, merely kept you in a cycle of can't gamble / must gamble. Getting out of such a cycle isn't as simple as "apply more willpower!" - you can't fight yourself with willpower, as you have exactly as much willpower as yourself. Try something else.)

May you understand, and solve this to your satisfaction, in time.

[Korpo]

I wholeheartedly agree with Mystikal.

BTW, just from your reply to CF I think you have a problem with an over-analysing mind. Like "Oh no, what does this word mean", "Oh no, this has a different meaning, let's argue of the meaning of <thing beside the actual point>". Your ego personality gets you to pursue such trivialities and makes you miss the point.

Don't analyse things as much. I know from your posting history that you always dwell on the meaning of words, on trying to be right, or trying to think through things. Same is the obsession with willpower and trying to be in control - it is the attempt of the ego mind trying to overpower your inner world. And that doesn't even work very much, does it?

Do you feel free in the moment when you submit yourself to Lady Luck? Out of control, not in charge, the outcome not determined by anything you could do? Does the winning feel especially good because it came "for free", without having had responsibilities, hard work, more effort? Does the losing not feel as bad because something outside yourself determines the outcome? Does gaming take you outside your own little world?

If gambling gives the feeling of letting go, of being free or just a high only you can know. The first step in real life is: Observe, observe, observe. How do you feel when you gamble? What are your emotions? How do you feel? What sensations arise in your body? Try to observe yourself, try to recognise what drives you - by *feeling* it when it happens. Don't analyse. Train for presence. Be present to your experience.

Over time this might help identify what actually drives your gambling problem and allow you to work on it instead. Over time this might help you identify the little point in your inner world that is touched before things get out of hand, where you can still decide whether to gamble or not, and then you can work with that and make true choices about it. You can work on obtaining true freedom then.

All of this must be felt - in real life and in meditation. Thinking goes in circles. Thinking that you know is not knowing. Real knowing has an entirely different quality to it. It feels finished. You don't scratch that itch again. You don't come back over and over again. You don't rethink it in two to three weeks again. Real knowing comes from experiencing and feeling your inner world, resolving what numbs you and understanding from a deeper level of mind, not from habitually thinking about it. In regards to your inner world, thinking is not the answer. You have to experience it to the fullest in order to allow to let it go and be free.

Take good care,
Oliver

[rapidlearner]

First and foremost, thanks for putting in the thought and effort to your replies. I really appreciate the advice.

[rapidlearner]

Hi Just thought I'd give an update as promised...

It has been difficult to break the habbit. Again, for anyone thats not convinced about the addictiveness of gambling... its like being really thirsty, having an ice cold glass of water in front of you and trying not to drink it. Gambling plays on your mind and is always there lurking in the background until you give in to it. And sometimes, just sometimes, it rewards you for listening.

Anyway, for the last 3-4 weeks I've been commited to an exercise regeime and its made a world of difference. I do still think about gambling everyday but it consumes a lot less mind capacity than it used to. It seems to be fading into the background and dieing a slow death. So I'm exercising hard and eating well and I feel very good about myself. The endorphines are definately rampent and it fills better than any big win I've ever had. The funny thing about this feeling is that its kind of time released, where I feel good for most of the day. Whereas, when I was in gambling mode, I may have a little shot of adrenaline for 2 minutes and then spend the rest of the day on a real downer.

I know its a common piece of advice that is easy to come accross but I would say to anyone that doesn't do it already to get an excercise regeime together, stick to it and it will work miracles for any kind of depression or self esteem issues.

Like I said, gambling is still there lurking in the background and Im not sure it will ever go but I have a lot more control and strength and hold over it than it does over me.

Will continue to keep you updated. :)

[ButterflyWoman]

Good on you! Sounds like you're doing well. Thank you for the update. :)

[rapidlearner]

Update time :)

[ButterflyWoman]

Hmmm... I've fallen off the wagon a few times. The thing is, when I do fall off the wagon, its normally quite a big spree and as usual I dont stop until I've lost everything, even if Im up. Again, I've noticed that I gamble when I feel in a good mood or an invincible mindset. I seem to get the idea that I 'today' I definately have the control to quit when im up as 80% of the time I gamble I will be 'up' at some point.
Hmmm. Have you considered that you might be experiencing manic (or hypomanic) states? The behaviour you describe sounds very like what happens with mania (not all manics gamble; some just go on shopping sprees or similar overspending).

I mean, it may not be an issue, but it's worth considering, anyway.

[chipster]

These types of problems are always the worst. You control it but really you don't. Knowing you have a problem is definatly your first step in the direction of healing but you need to think of it like a disease or really bad habit like smoking. It's not easy to quit but you just have to take it one day at a time.

[rapidlearner]

Hi -

Sorry I had to delete my posts as someone quoted something from me that they found here. I dont for the life of me know how they managed to link it to me.. Maybe I put too much information out?

[CFTraveler]

I'm sending you some positive energy.