Why would God do that? (from: The truth behind the psiwheel)

[metas]

It is extremely hard for a person with unexpanded consciousness to try to grasp it, but the truth is that what you are is God in any way you look at it. God is the universe - all the stones, oceans, trees, planets, galaxies, living beings. The God is all that there is and ever will be. The reason your ego has trouble letting go of the idea that you are separate from the world is because God convinced himself that way to play hide-and-seek with himself.

In other words, if you accept the idea that you are God and stop believing in materialistic terms (believing only what you see with your eyes), then you will awaken and see the only truth - you are not separate from the world, but you are world. It takes a long time to realize this, but when you do you will not only be able to move petty pencils on the table, you will be able to pass through walls (after all, walls are made of molecules and so is your body). Its the power of awareness. Jesus was a human being no different from you (apart from his high spiritual side) and he could walk on water. Something to think about - read Alan Watts.

[ButterflyWoman]

The reason your ego has trouble letting go of the idea that you are separate from the world is because God convinced himself that way to play hide-and-seek with himself.

I can actually accept this concept, and sometimes even sort of see/experience it.

Any thoughts on WHY God would do such a thing, though? (Perhaps this is worthy of a thread of its own; I might see if I can figure out how to split it off.)

[journyman161]

My thoughts...

If All is God & we're here to learn the ALL, there must be separation. Without separation there is only ALL & thus no viewpoint to view anything other than the single awareness. To achieve separation, it would seem to be a necessity for there to be unknowingness, or else every attempt to produce a different PoV would fail - each would know ALL in the same way God did & thus be unable to provide any new information.

There is a background assumption here that in the beginning, the ALL was Aware but not necessarily Knowing. Everywhere I look I see attempts to learn & to know & so I make the proposition that the game is learning & knowing. All else is due to, & subject to, that basic purpose. Think about it. Even in this life, the level only just above death is apathy - when there is no interest & no learning. Anything above that state involves learning, even if it is only from fear & trying to ensure survival. A baby learns from the womb & we recognise the special state of childhood when all is new & to be learned.

So why would God do this? I think it was not only necessary but was actually the mechanism used to create everything apart from the initial beingness of God.

[Psychotronic]

Materialism bound consciousness extremely. You can successfully work with subconsciousness only if you have immaterialistic methods of thinking, it can be natural thinking too. We must notify, that all thoughts about universe are always only our thoughts and they haven´t lot of things together with the only truth – pure existence.

Consciousness is not in space or time, it can only percieve illusory space and time in a connection to the physical plane. We have no time and space, because we can imagine ourselves breaking time and space barriers, paradoxically we can imagine being with almost no time and space, but very dimly. There are our real sources of life and whole existence. We travel in many spheres to immaterial truth of existence. Step by step we are breaking space and time barriers. I can say, that God didn´t want to create something impossible for us. :D

[metas]

God created man in his own image - but we have to think in metaphysical terms here (not the way we have 2 arms and legs, but the way our soul/mind connection is working). Thinking in a very simple way, God made the universe out of himself and then divided up his consciousness into the great variety of living beings to populate and have all sorts of experiences. But since knowing the outcome of the game makes the game not interesting, he convinced himself that its not him but us. I know I am a little God - i can will myself anything I want in astral (the material world has a huge lag in this respect, the power of intention works much faster in astral). But technically since I am God, I can affect the material world also with my will (intention) - I see it happening but usually quite some time after I decided to have it. God's will is so enormous that he created the universe with it. How do you think you make a fist? You dont think about it, you just do it - its your intention.

So my reasoning is that we have to gain understanding through 2 ways - spiritual and materialistic development. The first goal of meditation is to understand the nature of the mind. Mind is physical, its the self-conscious feedback mechanism of the cortex. Mind can think. Soul is completely opposite. Soul feels and can't think. But soul has all the will power of the universe, limited only by the materialistic mind. Isn't this amazing?! The eternal difference and unity of opposites! And you already know the reason for this rule everywhere, to be able to learn through understanding the differences thereby reaching full realization of their unity in itself.

[CFTraveler]

Psychotronic- in this and many threads you have used the word 'notify.' I think I know what you mean by this, but in an effort to understand this better, would you give us a description of what you call 'notify'?
Much appreciated,
CF.

[Psychotronic]

By the word "notify" I mostly mean "know it" + "feel it". So it is an universal knowledge about something, if I fully know it with analytic hemisphere and I can fully feel it with emotional hemisphere too. But in this context an emotional hemisphere is more important. Is the word "realise" better?

Can you imagine quantum physicist playing with his emotions?? No, he is playing only with a calculator. :D Joke...I have not anything against quantum sciences. I have a lot of things against people, who think, that pure existence is something axiomatical - dialectical. All the same with people, who think, that space and time are pure existence. It is so laughable. :D :D

[CFTraveler]

By the word "notify" I mostly mean "know it" + "feel it". So it is an universal knowledge about something, if I fully know it with analytic hemisphere and I can fully feel it with emotional hemisphere too. But in this context an emotional hemisphere is more important. Is the word "realise" better?
Not sure- I thought 'notice', 'realize', but it's one of those words that mean more than that. Will have to think about it.

Can you imagine quantum physicist playing with his emotions?? No, he is playing only with a calculator. Actually, I've met a few that would. Dr. Wolfe probably would, he's a very spiritual man, and 'my hero'.


:D Joke...I have not anything against quantum sciences. I have a lot of things against people, who think, that pure existence is something axiomatical - dialectical. All the same with people, who think, that space and time are pure existence. It is so laughable. :D :D MMmm... I'm one of those who think we're all on the same path, and some are in different places of it.

[Psychotronic]

We are on the same path, but putting paradigmas is getting out of the only natural path.

Spiritual physicist is the best physicist. :wink: It depends on his mindset and ability to work with subconsciousness. (so having spiritual advantages of thinking, working with states of consciousness to improve studies)

[ButterflyWoman]

Okay. This has been helpful and thought provoking. I'm getting there. Now... why male and female? Why not, say, three genders? Or one? (I know some animals are both, of course.) Thoughts?

I'm getting closer and closer to my own true divinity all the time, I just need to tell my monkey mind to shut up, and in order to do that, I need to feed it good information. ;)

[CFTraveler]

Okay. This has been helpful and thought provoking. I'm getting there. Now... why male and female? Why not, say, three genders? Or one? (I know some animals are both, of course.) Thoughts?

I'm getting closer and closer to my own true divinity all the time, I just need to tell my monkey mind to shut up, and in order to do that, I need to feed it good information. ;)
In my view there are more than three genders- we just have the capacity to only conceptualize two, and anything else is a subset of the two that are perceived to be opposite.
Biologically, humans have two for reproduction, but the rest of nature has more options.
I'm bowing out of the deeper aspects of this convo for self-preservation reasons. :)

[Psychotronic]

It is a question of whole DNA system too and its connection to other things - body, mind...
We can presume it like natural informatic system, it is a part of unconscious mind. It came to being only for informatic and evolutionary reasons. Matter is product of consciousness and matter(our bodies) is coming back to consciousness. In evolution we are coming back to sources of life, to more consciousness like matter, to more knowledge like consciousness. If something was created by these pure systems, it can have only improving effect in my reason. :D We can discuss what effect has it.

[star]

We are all gods but the truth is those who have travelled the path before us still have more power. I'd grab some planes now before the astral gets too crowded. :D Sheesh, you realize that many of us have restrictions placed on our powers? Those olde` gods can be a pain in the ass.

[journyman161]

We are all gods but the truth is those who have travelled the path before us still have more power. I'd grab some planes now before the astral gets too crowded. :D Sheesh, you realize that many of us have restrictions placed on our powers? Those olde` gods can be a pain in the ass.*grins* I like to think that maybe we have a touch of advantage ourselves...

Briefly, if the game is learning about ALL, if we are truly here to bring knowledge of ALL back to the Godhood as we grow through the levels, then those who come later along the path start from a deeper level of understanding of how things are. For example, keing able to consciously manipulate the plenum with full understanding of the intricacies seems to be a more effective position than knowing the Words of Power but not how they function.

Maybe we have a few surprises for the 'olde gods'? Perhaps Zeus can chuck his lightning but we can use it to spin our auras?

[metas]

Has anyone read the book "The Thiaoouba Prophecy"? In the book, the author supposedly has contact with highly advanced species on the other side of our galaxy. The book has a lof of concepts from the New Age movement and my personal conclusions, which made me believe the author was saying the truth. Anyways, the author asks the all smart Thao (his guide) how society should go about homosexuals. I dont remember exacly what he said, but i think the idea is that we should look at it in terms of how the nature intended it. Reproductively speaking, homosexuals cant have offspring. Hence, it is not normal and against nature. But as far as I know they existed in ancient Rome and long before that.

But if we look at Male / Female then we will again see the difference and unity of opposites. There is a whole ancient practice of attaining unity with God through making love with your soul mate. In one example, man sits in lotus posture while woman sits on top and wraps her arms and legs around him. And by the way, that alien race I mentioned - they are hermaphrodites (only one gender, even though they look just like humans aside from being much taller). Having one gender eliminates a lot of societal difficulties we have on our planet, but at the same time we can enjoy a lot of wonderful moments of relationships (as long as there is no total dependency in the relationship).

[wstein]

The reason your ego has trouble letting go of the idea that you are separate from the world is because God convinced himself that way to play hide-and-seek with himself. I can actually accept this concept, and sometimes even sort of see/experience it.

Any thoughts on WHY God would do such a thing, though? Wouldn't the correct question be 'Why would Ido such a thing?'?

Set down your ego and see where answering the question leads. Warning: it gets intense in a hurry.

[ButterflyWoman]

Wouldn't the correct question be 'Why would I do such a thing?'?

Set down your ego and see where answering the question leads. Warning: it gets intense in a hurry.

Very apt. Thank you. I will. And thanks for the warning on the intensity, I'll be prepared.

[VioletImagery]

Has anyone read the book "The Thiaoouba Prophecy"? In the book, the author supposedly has contact with highly advanced species on the other side of our galaxy. The book has a lof of concepts from the New Age movement and my personal conclusions, which made me believe the author was saying the truth. Anyways, the author asks the all smart Thao (his guide) how society should go about homosexuals. I dont remember exacly what he said, but i think the idea is that we should look at it in terms of how the nature intended it. Reproductively speaking, homosexuals cant have offspring. Hence, it is not normal and against nature. But as far as I know they existed in ancient Rome and long before that.

Hello metas,

I have read the Thiaoouba Prophecy and I do believe the beings described in it are real and that we could learn a lot from them...but I don't neccessarily agree with everything they say just because they are more 'highly advanced' in some areas than we are. To me, their truth still has some biases in it and I felt they were a bit patronizing at times too. They have their own reasons for interacting with us which may or may not be for our 'highest good', but only WE can determine what our 'highest good' is.

As far as the issue of homosexuality, nature is certainly complicated so to say definitively that something is 'against nature' is difficult at best (plus they are a different species so their biological nature is not going to be the same as ours, even if they did have two sexes).

I read an article that proposed genes responsible for male homosexuality might be linked to the X-chromosome and actually help reproductive success, but only when present in a female. Basically, they are 'boy-liking' genes. And females with a stronger variant of the 'boy-liking' genes reproduce more than females who don't have such strong 'boy-liking' genes. When passed down to a male, however, these genes produce boys that like other boys (so a no-go on the reproduction there). The article proposed that there is a *natural* balance between these two effects in a population, and that is why male homosexuality persists throughout the generations. Certainly an interesting idea. Makes pretty good sense to me and I want to know what they had come up with for female homosexuality too.


And by the way, that alien race I mentioned - they are hermaphrodites (only one gender, even though they look just like humans aside from being much taller). Having one gender eliminates a lot of societal difficulties we have on our planet, but at the same time we can enjoy a lot of wonderful moments of relationships (as long as there is no total dependency in the relationship).

Yes, I agree with you, gender differences (socially constructed or biological) are interesting for sure, even if they can sometimes be troublesome. I don't believe that separating a species into two sexes is a 'lower' form than everyone being hermaphrodites. It is just different. The important thing is to not let one sex dominate the other (an issue that we are still working on on this planet...)

--Kelsey

[ButterflyWoman]

Wow, this is an old thread. :) Happy to say I've gained a great deal of understanding and insight into this topic since this was first posted.

I still haven't got the full picture, but I have a much, much bigger and better grasp than I did. It hasn't come in a huge rush of understanding, but in bits and pieces. Sometimes the revelations (or realisations, more like) made me cry or laugh or just nod and say, "Ahhh, yes, that makes sense...". Some just popped into my head and I thought, "Oh, right, okay, cool." Eventually, all the pieces of the puzzle will be there and I'll see the big picture, but I see some of it now, so I don't know if it'll blow my mind or not. I do kind of expect to experience that sense of accomplishment you get when you finally finish a puzzle, but I could be wrong on that.... :P

At the moment I'm struggling with what the actual purpose is of having an ego that seems to exist for the express and deliberate purpose of keeping you from seeing your Higher Self, and from gaining greater understanding of things beyond the material. I get that we need an ego to navigate the material world (just as we need a body), but it seems bizarre to have this big part of yourself that is basically in constant opposition to the Godself and knowledge/understanding of the Godself.

I get that struggle creates strength and determination, but still. Seems like a big waste of time for Source to bother taking on the form of a human being and then spend however many years just wallowing in ignorance and isolation.

Yeah, I'll get it eventually. For the moment, though, it's really bugging me.... ;)

[CFTraveler]

but it seems bizarre to have this big part of yourself that is basically in constant opposition to the Godself and knowledge/understanding of the Godself. I've never agreed that that's what the ego does. That's what it can do when trained wrong, but not what it's for, IMO. One of those 'free will zone' things, I suppose.

[ButterflyWoman]

but it seems bizarre to have this big part of yourself that is basically in constant opposition to the Godself and knowledge/understanding of the Godself. I've never agreed that that's what the ego does. That's what it can do when trained wrong, but not what it's for, IMO. One of those 'free will zone' things, I suppose.
Well, I'm not convinced that the ego is "evil" or "negative", either. A book I'm reading at the moment describes the ego as being the "negative" parts of you, and that it "attacks" you (yikes!). Certainly, I agree that the ego must be understood for what it is (whatever it is) and that you need to be aware of allowing your ego to take over, but the idea that the ego is all negative seems too much to me like the Medieval Christian concept that the body was inherently "sinful" and therefore things like bathing and other pursuits of the flesh (eating, sex, etc.) were to be avoided or at least rigidly controlled and in no way enjoyed.

So, yeah, this is why I struggle with this concept. ;)

[CFTraveler]

Yep. Some modern metaphysical systems see the ego as the devil. And you know what I think of that. :wink:

[Jaco]

Ego in not negative or evil. It's just laud, chaotic, distracting... like a spoiled kid, like a drama queen, and very very afraid. Our "very very afraid" part. :)
I think the only thing that can judge ego as evil is the ego itself. :roll:
IMO, ego is not about keeping you from seeing Higher self or Godself, it is about it keeping our attention to ego part of ourselves. When we do not watch constantly that part of ourselves, we can see other things.
:)