The truth behind the psiwheel and other similar experiments

[truth213]

From what I personally believe, true telekinesis doesn't exist, at least not for the human brain. It's impossible to move objects with thought alone, at least in the physical plane. Notice how every application of telekinesis requires there to be a small distance between the object and the experimenter's hands? Take a look at this video and see if you notice a resemblance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdBE3t2S95I (a turning psi wheel surrounded by mugs of hot water)

It's heat energy. Heat energy is emitted from the experimenter's hands which causes the balanced psiwheel to spin. There's a lot of videos on the internet that claim to prove telekinesis, by having psi wheels under glass, like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w86hDdUD03o

Pretty convincing? Now look at his comment, he explains in full detail how he faked it. Ok, now for the next:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5NwRfMJgOQ

I have to admit, this one's very convincing, but none the less, the author explains here that it was just a trick, an illusion: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=73996&st=225 (look for post #238, past halfway down the page)

I do believe in a lot of paranormal phenomena, like astral project, mediumship, and so on. But telekinesis is something I would describe as impossible. If we could control physical objects with thought alone, then what would be the point of having physical bodies in which we use to interact with the physical world? If it were possible, then why can't spirits affect the physical world?

However I could be wrong.

[Psychotronic]

I think it is better to believe in everything, what we can´t prove. We can´t prove anything. :D


EDIT: Youtube ??? :D :D , do you know anybody normal, who wants to demonstrate it? :D

[Caelrie]

:lol: That's funny!

[wstein]

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
-Richard Bach

On YouTube there are many fake videos of the psi wheel and many just using convection currents. All that proves is that there is a lot of wishful thinking.

[Psychotronic]

I want to say only one thing, TELEKINESIS is based on a VERY different principle than PSI-BALLS. Psi-balls has not anything together with telekinesis, mostly it is rumors. :D

[CFTraveler]

So are you saying that tk isn't the same as moving energy? (Which is what psiballs are- energy moved to the hands and then shaped like a ball.) :?:

[Psychotronic]

Ability to make a PSI-ball is only a small part of that, what must know and be able to do somebody, who wants to do telekinesis. We can produce many types of energy. Primary energies have incidence and actuation only in astral dimension. It is easy to make and form these energies. If we are kombining and joining some energies, their properties are harder - closer to physical dimension. People, who are making PSI-balls, can´t affect matter with this type of energy. Because they know nothing about types of energy. Their energy is only astral energy and so physical dimension can´t notice, that they want to do telekinesis. :D Astral energies can be in physical dimesion, but they are too soft, they are only a flow of pure ideas. We must know, what matter is, if we want to move with matter. Matter is only energetic loop, matter is energy, what can´t change its properties because of energetic arrangement of surroundings.(push, temperature, consistency) If we want to change properties of matter - do telekinesis - we can´t affect and cause that from surroundings. We must affect and cause from the inside of matter(object). The first thing - we must be able to translocate our consciousness to the object - we must be the object. It is easy. The second thing - we must know, what type of astral energies, we can produce to the inside of object. There must be constantly energetic flow in the object. We must be able to combine known types of energies and materialize energy in physical dimension. If we are combining right types of energies, energy is materializing to physical forms. We can change properties of the smallest and softest elements in matter. Because the smallest and softest elements in matter are PURE INFORMATIONS. So, matter in any form is only idea. :D Matter isn´t composited from atoms. It is absurd and laughable. :D Atomic theories are only wrong viewpoint... :D viewpoint of circulating informations - ideas and their energy. We must make opposite variability of soft energy than energy circulating in matter to short circuit matter. PSI-ballmakers aren´t people, who are combining energies softly and systematically. They want to produce whichever type of energy for PSI-ball. So, they haven´t anything together with people, who know every type of energy and are able to produce it. PSI-ball is only child toy for these people. :D :D :D

[CFTraveler]

Ability to make a PSI-ball is only a small part of that, what must know and be able to do somebody, who wants to do telekinesis. We can produce many types of energy. Energy is the capacity to do work. The only difference in 'energies' is the way this energy is used or expressed. But Einstein pretty much demostrated that matter and energy are expressions of the same thing, and quantum physics also has demostrated that matter is only energy that has collapsed into a particle. So 'astral energy' is just energy that is either vibrating in the right frequency to express in the 'astral' or something similar.

It is easy to make and form these energies As far as we know, energy can't be created or destroyed, only transformed. When we 'create' energy in the astral all we're doing is giving it form- the potentiality is already there.


People, who are making PSI-balls, can´t affect matter with this type of energy. Yet people who make psiballs have used them to soften metal, for one thing. I'm not talking cartoon Dragonball Z psiballs, I'm talking energy flow that can cause matter to get warm.

Because they know nothing about types of energy. It is not necessary to have knowledge of energy to make it move- just some simple training and some practice.

Astral energies can be in physical dimesion, but they are too soft, they are only a flow of pure ideas. I agree that astral energy has very little effect on physical matter, but I disagree that they are 'only' ideas. Ideation is purely information and believed (by some scientists) as some sort of field that is either nonlocal or superlocal, but the type of energy created with the type of energy work we teach here does affect the physical, enough to increase circulation (and this has been experimentally measured) and enough for some to affect matter in other ways.


We must know, what matter is, if we want to move with matter. Matter is only energetic loop, matter is energy, So far we agree.
what can´t change its properties because of energetic arrangement of surroundings.(push, temperature, consistency) I disagree. You can only change the properties of matter externally, because force has to be applied to it to do so. This is true of plain old physics (push it, set it on fire) this is all externally to the object.

If we want to change properties of matter - do telekinesis - we can´t affect and cause that from surroundings. We must affect and cause from the inside of matter(object). I don't understand where you got this idea. You are categorizing matter as if it were immutable in some way.

The first thing - we must be able to translocate our consciousness to the object - we must be the object. It is easy. Anybody who AP's can do it, and has done it. But this doesn't cause any difference in the object occupied because it doesn't occupy the 'same' space, or phase relationship, or whatever you want to call it.

The second thing - we must know, what type of astral energies, we can produce to the inside of object. This doesn't make any sense to me. This is like saying you have to know what something is made of before setting it on fire. It may work or not, but prior knowledge may make it easier, not necessarily possible or impossible. Plus, objects have a range of energetic expression, all the way from etheric (so it is perceptible in the RTZ) all the way to physical. So to affect it you can pretty much instinctively know what you can do with it. I personally don't believe it's much, so in that I agree with you, but not for the same reasons.

There must be constantly energetic flow in the object. Anything that occupies spacetime is constantly expressing energy in some way. That's why entropy happens.

We must be able to combine known types of energies and materialize energy in physical dimension. Here you are talking about combining different types of energy as if they were things, when they are ways of expressing the same thing. Fire is a rapidly radiating transfer of energy, while cold is a slowly (relativistically speaking) inflow of energy. But they are the same in the sense that they are ways of measuring energy transfer. The energy is the same. How they affect matter or are expressed is what differs.

If we are combining right types of energies, energy is materializing to physical forms. If by this you mean by slowing energy down you get matter, maybe. But combining energy?

We can change properties of the smallest and softest elements in matter. Because the smallest and softest elements in matter are PURE INFORMATIONS. This is debatable but possible. Information, as far as I've read from noetic scientists, is not energy at all. It seems to be something else, and no one really knows. The only thing we know is that when information is applied to energy, something happens. Maybe matter. Maybe not.

So, matter in any form is only idea. Ha ha, some philosophers think that the form is the idea, the matter is the substance.

:D Matter isn´t composited from atoms. It is absurd and laughable. Actually, matter is shaped by wave interference. But I don't know if that's what you're talking about.

:D Atomic theories are only wrong viewpoint... Let's say that there's lots of wrong viewpoints....

:D viewpoint of circulating informations - ideas and their energy. We must make opposite variability of soft energy than energy circulating in matter to short circuit matter. PSI-ballmakers aren´t people, who are combining energies softly and systematically. They want to produce whichever type of energy for PSI-ball. So, they haven´t anything together with people, who know every type of energy and are able to produce it. PSI-ball is only child toy for these people. :D :D :D No comprendo.

[Thoughtbreach]

Hi everyone, been a while since on the forums, thought i come and visit.

Imho, telekinesis is a real skill we have. Energy work and telekinesis is related to each other, because they are methods that i use, and i can vouch from experience and from evidences.

Wherever the awareness goes, is where a projection of enery can occur. It is mysterious what it is however. It shares some properties with electricity and radiations, however it is not these things. Indeed it shares properties of whatever you wish it to be with great practice and skill.

I have done tk from many rooms away, whilst i had a video recording the object clearly move on my computer webcam. At first when we learn the force is quite small, but with training this force becomes stronger as we sense the unstableness of our sorroundings. (You are all aware that everything is moving very quickly).

It is naive to say that it occurs only in isolated form, when we all very well know by now the connection of everything as well as loads of non local psychic occurences and/or experiments.The real questions and statements we should say is, we need a framework and an understanding of how to learn tk, because it is such a vast area of study, projecting the energy body upon physical objects...Specialised military know, but as per usual do not share their information hoardings.

Have fun

Thoughtbreach

[star]

Tk seems like something that requires special attention to develop unless you come by it accidently. I agree that it would be fun to use but you might get a greater benifit from trying AP. Just becuase there are fun places to explore. Well, I like to explore anyway. You know, I like the group effect. If you get enough people attempting something like this in a group it can work out much faster. Sometimes even with immediate results. I read somewhere that some 'parties' are based on trying to make certain psychic abilities manifest. That would be a good time; "Hey guys, lets levitate the cat next!" ("Meow!")*Scramble.*

[Thoughtbreach]

I agree. AP is very important; quite challenging for me and probably more challenging then tk in general. I need to buy a recliner bad.
I believe there is a link between AP, TK and energy body. AP being the joker card.

[Psychotronic]

AP is really the first thing to learn. Other possibilities can appear easier than before doing AP. :D

[journyman161]

Across the years, one thing I've tried to keep in mind is not to make definitive statements - they have (as mentioned above) a tendency to become self-fulfilling prophecies. Sometimes the key to learning something entirely new is simply to alter the position in which one views the subject. The Timex company came into being because the Swiss watchmakers couldn't see a new way & the japanese could. The new paradigm proved itself & electronic watches swept the Swiss domination from the market.

At base, our theories tell us that when you look small enough, there is nothing there, at least some of the time. It has also been experimentally shown over & again, in a variety of fields, that the expectations of the experimenter can alter the results - someone expecting something to work can get good results while those who try to disprove them get results they expect also.

The ideas that are showing us new ways to view Reality are also those that come from (or lead to) the concept that the Universe is not really there, & that consciousness is not just an adjunct to Reality, but that it seems required to have Reality there at all.

We don't know yet what causes electricity, but we use it. We have no idea what magnetism is or why it breaks the 'rule' about action at a distance or perpetual motion, yet we can use it. We have only a word for gravity (& a couple of ideas about possibilities of what it might be) & absolutely no idea why it is millions of times weaker than electric & magnetic fields & it was one of the first forces Man began to use. Our theories of the other forces contradict the ideas we have of things (like charges repel, yet something holds together atomic nuclei & doesn't cause electrons to fly away from each other) & even our ideas about molecules suffer from a massive influx of ignorance.

So either there are a myriad mysteries about how things happen, or our theories are not yet the be-all of the Cosmos. So it is probably a little early to be defining what a trained or even unrestrained consciousness might be capable of achieving.

I've seen (& experienced) a few things in my time that, even with my knowledge of science & how things fit together, I can't explain, & that is enough to convince me I not only don't know all the answers, but that, in most areas I haven't even found the right questions to ask.

It only takes one white crow to disprove the theory that all crows are black. Spotting lots of black ones simply doesn't do it.

[CFTraveler]

It only takes one white crow to disprove the theory that all crows are black. Spotting lots of black ones simply doesn't do it. That was a thing of beauty.

[Thoughtbreach]

Conservative response. What is your point, I don't understand? It's all a "mystery" so why bother trying to increase or putting into practice awareness?
We can argue and philosophically debate about failure to explain things with human theory adequately for all eternity, but it has not, and will never bring us out of our comfortable little cottages, that we peer out of.
I say let us all learn and find awareness within, hence their be no point we be on an astral dynamics site.

[wstein]

Why bother bing on AD?
You have more chance of finding a white crow if you are looking where crows hang out.

[journyman161]

Conservative response. What is your point, I don't understand? It's all a "mystery" so why bother trying to increase or putting into practice awareness?
We can argue and philosophically debate about failure to explain things with human theory adequately for all eternity, but it has not, and will never bring us out of our comfortable little cottages, that we peer out of.
I say let us all learn and find awareness within, hence their be no point we be on an astral dynamics site.If I read this right, you may have missed my point. By pointing out how little we actually know, even about things we use in everyday life, I was trying to show that it's difficult to make the case that TK doesn't exist. (see OP's post) And as we don't even know what it is, it becomes even harder to make definitive statements.

The crows comment is in reference to the youtube 'proofs' offered - showing many fakers playing at TK doesn't prove that all TK is faked - it only takes one real case of TK to make all those fakes wrong.

Is that more clear?

[Psychotronic]

If we want to prove, that tk doesn´t exist, we have no arguments to deny it. The only thing we can do, is debating about - HOW to do it, no how to deny it. :D We can deny only some theories about tk, be we can´t deny whole tk, we can´t deny all possible theories, because we can´t know all possible theories. And there are some theories of tk we absolutely can´t prove. So, we haven´t adequate knowledge to deny anything. It is a thing only for philosophical debates. And they can have no-ending charakter. Everybody know it... :D

[ButterflyWoman]

NOTE: I tried to split this thread (the split off part went to Mysticism), and I didn't quite do it the way I intended, but I'm not sure there is a way to do it the way I intended. Apologies for the slightly messy split. Still learning some of the technical stuff.

Anyway, metas wrote the following in this thread (sincere apologies for that deleted/moved comment, as I said, I didn't split the thread quite the way I intended *sigh*):


It is extremely hard for a person with unexpanded consciousness to try to grasp it, but the truth is that what you are is God in any way you look at it. God is the universe - all the stones, oceans, trees, planets, galaxies, living beings. The God is all that there is and ever will be. The reason your ego has trouble letting go of the idea that you are separate from the world is because God convinced himself that way to play hide-and-seek with himself.

In other words, if you accept the idea that you are God and stop believing in materialistic terms (believing only what you see with your eyes), then you will awaken and see the only truth - you are not separate from the world, but you are world. It takes a long time to realize this, but when you do you will not only be able to move petty pencils on the table, you will be able to pass through walls (after all, walls are made of molecules and so is your body). Its the power of awareness. Jesus was a human being no different from you (apart from his high spiritual side) and he could walk on water. Something to think about - read Alan Watts.

[CFTraveler]

Here's the new thread that was split:
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=10832 (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=10832)