Astral Projection vs Lucid Dreaming

[shaitanx]

I'm not sure where I should place this thread, so feel free to move it as desired.

From what I've gathered, lucid dreaming is the same thing as astral projection, without the actual projection. When you dream, (which you do every night), you project.. Am I correct? Or is there more to it than simply that?

My second question is regarding the interaction with the physical world while projection/in a lucid dream. I read somewhere that objects could be displaced in the precognitive field of the physical plane. Getting to this field in a lucid dream is as easy as getting anywhere else (simply desiring to be in it). So my question is, can you really move objects from your sleep?

Thanks

[kiwibonga]

From what I've gathered, lucid dreaming is the same thing as astral projection, without the actual projection. When you dream, (which you do every night), you project.. Am I correct? Or is there more to it than simply that?

The problem with these things seems to be terminology and the way different words are employed in a variety of fields with conflicting definitions... Ultimately, we are always "projected" to a certain degree, even when wide awake... It's just a matter of how much of your perceptions are coming from the physical body, and how good you are at not letting your brain scramble or discard the information you receive. When we sleep, a large layer of the "physical filter" is lifted, but there is still some of it there.

It's possible that some dreams or lucid dreams are actually projections but with a heavily distorted view of your surroundings, for instance. It's also possible that some projections are actually dreams where you create an environment that looks like the real world... And it's very hard to know with any certainty what an experience was after it has occured, unless you can somehow bring back solid proof with you...

You may be amazed to see most projectors saying "I had a lucid dream" or "I had a projection..." But the truth is, that's usually not something they know, it's what they want to believe after having the experience.

If we wanted to be 100% correct all the time, we'd just say "I had an experience," and we'd characterize it in terms of how vivid the memories were, how strongly we felt present-moment awareness and whether or not we were able to properly use our logical mind...


My second question is regarding the interaction with the physical world while projection/in a lucid dream. I read somewhere that objects could be displaced in the precognitive field of the physical plane. Getting to this field in a lucid dream is as easy as getting anywhere else (simply desiring to be in it). So my question is, can you really move objects from your sleep?

The only stories I've heard of people affecting the physical from OBEs were rather inconclusive... So far, no expert or author has come forward with anything that explains how to do it... It's just one of these things that needs to be investigated further...

[ButterflyWoman]

My current understanding is that a lucid dream takes place within your own private dreamspace, while astral projection takes place in the "collective unconscious" shared by everyone (and maybe other living things, as well as non-physical entities).

[CFTraveler]

And to add to what everybody has said, I do believe that affecting objects in the physical from the astral (to coin a few terms we all understand) is more than just proper focus or discrimination, it's also the ability to synchronize the subtle body that is of a different scale/vibration/density/place your own term here than the physical. Just 'cause your subtle molecules can interact with the subtle molecules (or even quantum particles) of an object doesn't mean you can affect the gross object enough to notice.

[CFTraveler]

My current understanding is that a lucid dream takes place within your own private dreamspace, while astral projection takes place in the "collective unconscious" shared by everyone (and maybe other living things, as well as non-physical entities). I agree but what I think Kiwi is saying is that just because we experience one as the other doesn't mean that is what's happening- I've had lots of dreams that have been shared (and I thought it was a dream until someone else said "I dreamed about you") and other times I've had an exit, projected and then had the most fabulous experience that was probably completely self created. So if you go from the rule that 'anything that happens in your mind happens in the astral', then whether it's individually or collectively created, it's equally valid, just experienced differently.
That's why I like the simple qualification- if I have an exit I projected, if I wake up to an experience it's a dream, regardless of hindsight.
Keeps the classification simple, although not so much....

[shaitanx]

In technical terms, I understand how they differ.. However, I've never had any of these "experiences". Not a lucid dream, nor have I ever projected. I know that I probably have had a lucid dream, I just don't remember it. So my question is how do the experiences themselves differ? Can you interact with others from a lucid dream as you could when you project?

The reason for all of this is that some time ago, I tried to master the art of projection. Needless to say, it didn't go so well. Recently, the subject of lucid dreaming came up, and I thought it seemed easier than projection. I would, however, like to be able to do both in the long run.

Thanks

[CFTraveler]

Then it seems to me you need to start at the beginning-with dream recall. Then, once you've got that down, then start working with lucidity. Once you've got that down, I'd go with trying to project.
The reason is long and boring. I'm sure you don't want to hear it again.

[shaitanx]

I'm aware and I have been working on my dream recall for quite some time; getting quite good at it. I just wanted to know the difference.

[CFTraveler]

I'm aware and I have been working on my dream recall for quite some time; getting quite good at it. I just wanted to know the difference. :D What difference? :wink: Just kidding. So when are you starting on lucidity training? That's where the real fun starts.

[RyanParis]

Astral projection and lucid dreaming are NOT the same thing.

Astral projection is an experience outside your body, while lucid dreaming is being aware of dreaming.

[CFTraveler]

Astral projection and lucid dreaming are NOT the same thing.

Astral projection is an experience outside your body, while lucid dreaming is being aware of dreaming. The experiences are different, but both dreaming and OBE are forms of projection.

[kiwibonga]

Astral projection and lucid dreaming are NOT the same thing.

Astral projection is an experience outside your body, while lucid dreaming is being aware of dreaming.

What if dreaming is a projection? If you know for sure that it isn't, then I'd like to hear what has you so convinced...

[Jake]

They are really two different prespectives of the same type of event... these are highly sophisticated energy-body -awareness events, that can be understood differently through OBE or LD's... Through Ld's, we expererience a different part of the event... through OBE we experience the SAME event in a completely different way... i have had OBE experiences where i 'kicked myself down' to the LD level/state for whatever reason i had at the time... kinda hard to wrap our 'monkey' brains around it... i am much more aware when OOB....

[ButterflyWoman]

Astral projection is an experience outside your body, while lucid dreaming is being aware of dreaming.

How can you tell if you're outside your body in a dream, though? I've had some pretty interesting dreams that did involve being apart from my body, but I wasn't lucid in any of them, so while I don't want to be a troublemaker, that seems a pretty limited definition.

[Psychotronic]

The relativity of astral projection - Thought forms(we are working with, in) can be close to physical or can be everything other or some form of "chaos".

The relativity of dreaming - There are two sides of relativity. We can make own thought forms or we can use old thought forms.

Physical......relativity(AP)......Astral........re lativity(LD)........Mental

But it isn´t something like dimensions(Budhic etc.), maybe dimensions only of our consciousness. We are pure relativity and Astral is pure relativity. :wink: