is enlightenment a staggered process or one shot deal?

[alwayson4]

I've heard you say, "The kundalini process involves enlightenment, illumination. This is a staggered process of realization. It does not happen in one instant, but through many realizations. "

However what is to know besides knowing you are not the false ego?

Once you have identified yourself as the "observer" in your mind rather than identifying with your own thoughts, what else is there to enlightenment?

[Korpo]

Hello, alwayson4.

I personally had the experience of being completely separate from my ego during a meditative release. I could see that my ego was something separate from my observing awareness, which was quite amused about the ego's rantings.

While this experience has been very helpful in proving to me that I am not my emotions, thoughts or ego, it did not make me enlightened. It just detached me a bit more from my ego and gave me a solid experience to go forward from instead of belief.

You may see that there is a difference between a single-shot experience, and constant, unbroken living of something. Ever since I had the experience I have again and again given in to the tendencies of my ego and not acted enlightened at all. Like someone who experiences non-duality strongly once and then loses it again. Monks strive for firmly establishing the non-duality experience instead of just glimpsing it.

While enlightenment is just a word that could many things, you might want to reformulate your question to Robert. I'm rather sure he meant more than just realising the ego is not you.

Hope this helps and take good care,
Oliver

[ButterflyWoman]

Enlightenment isn't all that hard to achieve. It's hard to KEEP. It's entirely possible to have moments of incredible lucidity and clarity and spiritual revelation, but that state of enlightenment (clarity, lucidity, etc.) doesn't remain with you. Eventually your ego takes over again. You remember the moments of enlightenment, yes, and they change you, slowly, over time, but it takes a long time before you can maintain that state all or even most of the time.

I think it's sort of like being made into a vessel that is capable of holding the enlightenment, that's what takes time.

At least, this is my own reflection on the subject (even if I did kinda say what Oliver said in different terms). And no, I do not claim to be enlightened, but I definitely have had periods of startling and blissful lucidity that I believe are signposts on the road to enlightenment.

I've decided I'm going to achieve enlightenment in this lifetime or die trying. ;)

[CFTraveler]

Some people believe that enlightenment is the realization that physical life is only illusion, that our experiences have no reality because of their objectivity.
Some others believe that enlightenment is the realization that we are all eternal and one with god, and that everything else is illusion.
Yet some others believe that enlightenment is the realization that there is nothing, that nothing is reality.
Someone said a long time ago that 'you can be enlightened to how a lightbulb works'- in other words, enlightenment is about realization, not achievement.
If any of this is true, then enlightenment means that it doesn't matter what you do after you're enlightened, because the end result is the same. So do something that brings you joy.
And if it isn't true, then it doesn't really matter, does it? Doing something that brings you joy sounds like the way to go, to me anyway.
.02

[ButterflyWoman]

Some people believe that enlightenment is the realization that physical life is only illusion, that our experiences have no reality because of their objectivity.

If that's true, then I'm there. Woot!


Some others believe that enlightenment is the realization that we are all eternal and one with god, and that everything else is illusion.

Almost there. ;)



If any of this is true, then enlightenment means that it doesn't matter what you do after you're enlightened, because the end result is the same.

I'm reminded of an old Buddhist proverb:

Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

[alwayson4]

While enlightenment is just a word that could many things, you might want to reformulate your question to Robert. I'm rather sure he meant more than just realising the ego is not you.

Hope this helps and take good care,
Oliver


I'm sure he meant more too....that why I asked the question lol

[wstein]

Is traveling to New York a staggered process or one shot deal?

Same answer. It depends on how you do it. It depends on what transportation you have. It depends on how far away you start. It depends...

[Freawaru]

I've heard you say, "The kundalini process involves enlightenment, illumination. This is a staggered process of realization. It does not happen in one instant, but through many realizations. "

It seems to me that there are two kinds of important kundalini processes, one is the ascending Serpent and the other the descending Power. Ascension happend inside the Central Channel but the descending involves the whole system.



However what is to know besides knowing you are not the false ego?


Well, now you know what you are NOT. But what are you? ;-)



Once you have identified yourself as the "observer" in your mind rather than identifying with your own thoughts, what else is there to enlightenment?

The observer, also known as the Impersonal Witness or vipassana experience, is an important realization on the Path to liberation. But it is not Buddhahood.

From the perspective of the Impersonal Witness one is aware of the body, mind, feelings/emotions and the mystical states like wisdom. And one recognizes them as dependently arising, changing, and suffering. The interesting point here is that during the experience one is usually only aware of one side of this intermediate state, namely the lower. Pure observation, no judgement, no feelings, no thoughts, no will are part of the Witness. But now and then something seeps through the Witness - from the OTHER side. As in Korpo's experience of amusement. As far as I know this amusement is not a part of the WItness itself but origins in the Beyond (beyond the Witness) and "channels" it't way downwards through the Observer. Other experiences might be a powerfull flow of Love or a kind of thought, but without a language. So one step more would be to contact and/or go into the Beyond.

Another step is into multi-level multi-tasking. Usually one experiences either the ego or the Witness. But this is not a law. One can also identify simultaniously with both perspectives, being both the Experiencer and the Observer. This is a bit like remembering an astral experience both from the side of the double that stays inside the physical body as well as from the astral double (RB descibes such an experience in the book "Astral Dynamics".) The challenge here is to keep the memory from both doubles.