Dropping the term "Astral Plane"

[CEP2plet]

It's about time, don't you think? I am, so... now I'm thinking of another term for it. Wish me luck.

Hahaha! This'll be fun! OK, let's all think of another term. That's what this thread is about. Have a go at it yourself!

Hmmm... How about "System 2"? Or "physical surreality". Haha! For those who like to fly, "bird-man-world" or whatever. !!! Oh, I've got it!! How about we don't call it anything!! We'll break up the "Planes" into wherever it is we go in them! That's an idea to consider, actually, since dropping the term "astral planes" would also require dropping the mapping of the plane levels, like how astral plane literature talks about 7 planes and stuff (sorry, I don't know what books detail that hierarchy of planes, so, whatever).

[kiwibonga]

Yeah, I don't like the catch-all term "astral" either... Hope we won't hurt Robert's feelings though :p

Unfortunately though, it's difficult to come up with a term when we don't really have tangible things to put labels on... Where does the "subjective astral" end and where does the "outside of the mind astral" begin? Are we in a special realm of the astral plane, or is the physical actually separate?

[CFTraveler]

Actually, I think it was the theosophists that coined the term 'Astral' because of the common experience of seeing starry skies when out, so I don't think Robert would take offense.
The problem is that when you say 'astral' and 'plane' everybody in the OBE community knows what you're talking about, and almost anything we can come up with is a description of something that is somewhat 'local' and 'temporal', when the experience is often nonlocal or supralocal and even though time seems to 'exist' in that state, it isn't always in the same way as when in body (or consciousness in line with body.)
And so, no matter how 'modern' (or contemporary, I should say) we want to be with scientific terminology, the old-fashioned terms always creep back into the lingo just because 'we all understand it'.
Savvy? :lol:

[CFTraveler]

But by all means don't let me dissuade you: Instead of the astral plane, I like 'the quantum continuum', and the RTZ, well, I like that.
Projection is still projection, although it's sometimes more like 'expansion with apparently localized projected nexus'.
Sound good?

[Jake]

The term Astral throws me off too... lots of 'new agy' words throw me off... 'astral/aura/chakra/mantra...etc' would have started energy work long ago if i didn't have to go to 'Madame Lamay and the crystal palace of auras' to get some advise... but that is just me... i am trying to keep an open mind...

[CFTraveler]

Then you should enjoy NEW. It's rather noncrystalline. :wink:

[Korpo]

The term Astral throws me off too... lots of 'new agy' words throw me off... 'astral/aura/chakra/mantra...etc' would have started energy work long ago if i didn't have to go to 'Madame Lamay and the crystal palace of auras' to get some advise... but that is just me... i am trying to keep an open mind...

Feel free to name then "hurz/freeple-wong/nuftarg/zapple-brink... etc." if it helps. ;)

I recently looked into a book of some witchy origin - that made even me cringe. :lol: So I can relate, actually. ;) (The book I refer to was mostly crap IMO, BTW)

Monroe has for example a completely own terminology. IIRC I never seen the term "astral" in his works. He also just numbered the energy bodies, etc.

Oliver

[RyanParis]

It's called the astral plane because some people who have astral projected have seen a starry plane. Astral means star.

[CFTraveler]

Which is what I said on my first post.

[CEP2plet]

I liked my second idea the best so far; just not call it anything, but instead only name the places where we go. That would focus our attention on describing intricately the places where we go, so that if someone else has gone there, they can check for themselves with others (if they can find others that share near-identical descriptions of where they've been, that would be the next dilemma). CFTraveler, if you're right about the Theosophists, then maybe the places that the Theosophists' visited were "astral", but not all places we project to are "astral". Especially not the "places" I visit.

The "places" we project to are more like "semiplaces", since they're not physical locations that anyone could just visit. They're there, since you or I have been there, but getting others to understand where we've been has its limits, and it's probably a good idea not to expect everyone to understand where this "place" is, since they will understand according to their own experience (and not everyone experiences projection, so it sort of goes without saying, but should be restated nonetheless for prudence) where it is (haha, either part of the multiverse or part of the grand delusions in our heads; Probably both!) and how to get there. But, not even we can repeatedly go to a semiplace over and over again over an extended period of time. Even our own access to these semiplaces are limited. They truly are "semi-".

Anyway, here's a semiplace I've been to numerous times. I call it "The Latrine Labyrinth", because it's nothing but toilet stalls, toilets, urinals, and sinks. It winds and meanders on forever and has many entrances and exits from other semiplaces. It's one gigantic restroom to get lost in. Don't ask me why I go there because I cannot answer that question; I don't know why, I just do. Maybe it's like the same reason I go to the bathroom physically. It's not something I focus on all day, it's just something I do now and again. The same seems to apply in The Latrine Labyrinth.

kiwibonga

Unfortunately though, it's difficult to come up with a term when we don't really have tangible things to put labels on

CFTraveler:

The problem is that when you say 'astral' and 'plane' everybody in the OBE community knows what you're talking about, and almost anything we can come up with is a description of something that is somewhat 'local' and 'temporal', when the experience is often nonlocal or supralocal and even though time seems to 'exist' in that state, it isn't always in the same way as when in body (or consciousness in line with body.)

Very true. The stuff and experiences in semiplaces aren't tangible and not intangible (maybe), but, haha, semitangible? OK, enough of the semi-'s! But they are useful placeholder words for more fitting terms-yet-to-be. But, we can just assign that value to "astral" as well. We can just agree that "astral" is a useful placeholder word for a more fitting word we'll think up of later. Ahh, possibly all this astral-dropping talk for nothing? Probably not, as it just reminds us of the temporality of our terms. That is, except for "semitangible". That's a good one, that'll stay. :P

CFTraveler:

Instead of the astral plane, I like 'the quantum continuum', and the RTZ, well, I like that.

AKA "the Q Continuum" from Star Trek: The Next Generation? Hahaha! "Q! I know you can hear me! Come out already and show yourself!"

Earthborn:

lots of 'new agy' words throw me off...

So-called "New Age" terms I see as like the term "astral"; possibly just a useful placeholder word until one of us thinks up of a more fitting term (more like "it better be", not just "possibly", because "New Age" has already made itself dependent on a particular era that exists at the moment in spirituality; once it's over and it's not so "New" anymore... yeah... Oh, what's that?... the "New Age" has been around for DECADES?? Well, well! So much for being "New"... That is, to me, anyway. For the rest of the world, that could be a very different account, as the world as a whole, globally, collectively, still thinks of individuality and women's rights as brand-spanking-new ideas).