Help! need a technique to guide me into sleep.

[Akorah]

I have been meditating for a long time and know a variety of meditation techniques, but i can't seem to find a meditation technique that will lead me into sleep. I am having trouble sleeping at night and I think it may be due to meditation.. because i can get into a very deep meditative state and stay in that state for hours on end without falling asleep.. so when it comes to actually sleeping I find it very difficult.

[Korpo]

Normally meditators have problems staying awake, and have to untrain the reflex of falling asleep when they are meditating.

I think you untrained to the opposite - you untrained indiscriminately the normal going to sleep reflex because you "mixed it up" with meditation.

Hopefully your meditation and sleep locations are different. Don't meditate and sleep in the same place, else you either risk falling asleep during meditation/trance or cannot fall asleep because your mind is entrained into staying in trance. Separating the sleep and meditation places is a good hint for the mind which state to assume.

Also, meditation is a way to take control of your mind, and sleep a way to let go. In meditation you slip into a State of Consciousness (SoC) and try to keep it. First you trigger yourself and then you stabilise it through a certain amount of concentration. The sleep SoC you usually enter by letting go and not concentrating. So - meditation trance works by "hitting the right spot" between wake and sleep, and staying there, and sleep is basically missing any spots in between and falling asleep. These are two different processes IMO - in one you "brake" and in one you "fall". So I guess, depending on your technique, that you cannot meditate into sleep willingly, you just can let go. There is no technique for going asleep, because technique is control. Sleep is no-control, IMO.

There are Hemisync programs on separately available CDs that are about 15-20$ which have been designed to guide into restful sleep. They might be worth a try.

If you have trouble falling asleep it would also be wise to stop any "mind experiments" that can disturb your normal sleep cycle. Like trying to learn Yogic Sleep. Also do not do energy work late, as it can agitate and prevent falling asleep - the energising effect. Try to meditate/do energy work at the latest in the early evening, and properly ground agitated energy.

Do not eat late. Do not drink caffeine anymore in the last 8hrs before sleep. Don't drink alcohol beyond the equivalent of a glass of beer or wine. A little alcohol helps feeling sleepy, everything above that disturbs sleep.

Take good care,
Oliver

[Beekeeper]

Are you suffering physically as a result of lack of sleep or is the meditation leaving you refreshed anyway?

How many hours a night are you getting? Are you waking up during your sleep period or are you sleeping solidly? It may not be a problem if you feel okay.

Here are some things I've heard that work for different people. One is to go to bed as soon as you start yawning at night. If you have afternoon "power naps" they cannot go on for more than 15-20 minutes. You can have a relaxing bath, put some lavender essence in it and avoid anything stimulating like the television just before bed. Don't eat for the hour before you go to sleep and stay away from the caffeine in that period. You can use a binaural cd made to induce sleep. Tire your body out during the day (not just before sleep, though). Do not use your bed/bedroom for activities like work or television. Make sure it's dark enough, you're warm enough and you have a comfortable pillow and mattress. If you sleep with a snorer and that's the problem, address the problem. (My husband has discovered a herbal spray that he puts under his tongue and this has reduced his snoring a lot). Some people have success with valerian and chamomile tea. Get a good dose of natural light in through your eyes during the day.

Sometimes if you're stressed, depressed or over-stimulated you will find insomnia a problem. It can also be caused by bad habits that require you to retrain yourself.

[Akorah]

hmm.. no wonder i couldn't find a technique for it :(

I think you may be right Korpo.. I have developed the reflex to not fall asleep. I do meditate in the same room, I often do energy work before going to bed, I often eat before bed and don't have much of a pre-sleep ritual :(

But its that reflex thats the killer.. even if I do get a good pre-sleep ritual, drink herbal tea, and do all the other right stuff it's still not going to help flicking that final power switch. It would get me into a very deep relaxed state but not actually flip the reflex.

I do have some sleeping pills which I have been using, but I don't want to be relying on them. What I have been doing is trying to analyze what happens when I fall asleep.. as in where the energy goes. I think knowing this may help. Does all the energy centre in the third eye? or does something else happen? I also find that grounding myself helps a lot.

And to answer some other questions.. I do suffer physically from lack of sleep, but when i do sleep I usually sleep for a solid 12 hours (with or without sleeping pills I am just a very lengthy deep sleeper). Lately, upon waking my eyes have been really sore every time i wake up. But yeah if I don't get enough sleep my mind starts to go haywire. I did ask elsewhere if meditation can replace sleep altogether but the end conclusion we all came to was that it can reduce the amount of sleep but can't fully replace it because certain dream stages are required for the body to rejuvinate.

I have some really good binaural beats music that I have been using but I'm just getting so sick of it.. I don't want to be relying on anything other than myself for anything really. I will start doing those things you have both mentioned such as separating meditation place from sleeping place, etc. But what would really help me is knowing exactly what happens when someone falls asleep - energy-wise.

[Korpo]

It's a bit problematic to observe, since your mind goes asleep at the time... ;)

Sleep is a non-technique. It requires letting go. You cannot will yourself asleep, since this is the exact opposite of letting go. Many insomnia sufferers can tell you that, including myself (in the past).

I usually fall asleep easiest if my mind allows itself to be distracted. I just let my mind follow random thoughts, even foolish ones, watch a bit the energetic waves that start to show up behind my closed eyes in the dark, and suddenly I'm gone. I'm simply not holding on to anything or even thinking about going to sleep. I'm just not "paying attention" or try to think hard about anything specific. Then, at some point, the mind simply "loses track" and I am asleep.

Optimising the surroundings for sleep should help a lot for untraining the reflex. Making your bedroom a place for sleeping instead of meditating, working and other stuff should soon reinstitute a proper sleep ritual. I already get sleepy when I brush my teeth or don my pyjamas because my body is used to going to bed for sleeping afterwards. It is all about expectations. The right response comes when the body expects it. For this to work properly you have to ingrain these habits for some weeks.

Energetically there is a problem - I can describe to you what it feels like when the body falls asleep, a warm, fuzzy, slightly numb feeling that you can willfully spread if you are trained to do it, but this does not necessarily send your mind asleep, especially with reflexes like you trained them. The mind goes into sleep when you lose control like described above.

See, I think it is a lot harder to will the mind into achieving the right energies to fall asleep than just doing any other technique, because trying to manipulate energies consciously is a mind-concentration task that is more likely to keep you awake than send you asleep.

Oliver

[Akorah]

Thanks Oliver for putting everything into the right perspective for me :)

I think what else is a big cause is that when I sleep, I sleep until i wake up naturally.. which is usually like 12 hours. When i was working full-time i would only get 8 hours a night and be really tired each night so I think if I purposely set my alarm each morning instead it should help.

Is there any way to unlearn this reflex? or a way to overcome it?

[Korpo]

For someone who does energy work it is quite unusual to require that much sleep. I get by on 5, and am happy with 8.

If you sleep 12 hrs, you only have another 12 hrs to get tired again - that's not much, because I think the body is on average used to more like 16 hrs of activity of the kind we tend to have in modern times.

If you worked out in the evenings for an hour this might help getting you tired, because sedentiary lifestyles don't really wear you out to the point where you *need* sleep. Working out might help you to get sleepy, because if the muscles are tired, sleep comes more easily.

If other options fail you might want to limit your sleep time again either to 10, or even 8 hrs a night, so you get properly tired for sleep to work its magic on its own. When you've retrained your sleep reflex by making your bedroom a sleeping place and having rituals before going to bed (like brush teeth, don pyjamas, read a bit, go to sleep, always in same order), you might after some time prolong your sleep again and watch what results you get.

Take good care,
Oliver

[CFTraveler]

Something that worked for me in the past was to remember the time when I was so tired I couldn't help but to go unconscious, and try to bring the feeling back- So the next time (and I second Korpo's suggestion) you sleep less than your 12 hours and are tired, try to revel in the feeling so you can recall it when you need it.

[Akorah]

yeah thats a really good idea traveller.. im quite good at recreating feelings so that should work.. man sometimes i can be such an idiot :/

do you guys know why my eyes would be sore upon waking? is it just because im getting too much sleep or something else?

I'm not too sure why I can sleep for so long.. I really do love sleep and dreams though but maybe its because im quite a philosophical thinker always trying to solve the big questions in life every single day.. so maybe my mind needs more time to unwind from being over-active.

[Tom]

Eyebright and cayenne pills work best for me when I go through intervals of waking up with sore eyes.

[Korpo]

I used to need vast amounts of sleep as a teenager, when I was also having a lot of emotional turmoil. Sleep can level out the effects of stress, or at least help. If your nervous system is more prone to stress like mine is, it can be that you require extra sleep. Some people are simply born with different sleep needs. :)

I get sore eyes on waking when I slept too little. I also do not feel too well if I sleep like 10 or 12 hrs, then I actually feel less rested than after 8 hrs. In sleep you also move your eyes rapidly during REM sleep - if you have many dream phases you have more of these phases. If your eye muscles are tense or nearly strained, this might explain why your eyes are sore upon waking up.

I like CF's suggestion, it's splendid advice if you can pull it off. :D

I wish you a good night's sleep! ;)

Oliver

[CFTraveler]

That's a good question; I'm a 'deep thinker' :roll: myself and I go from needing 12 hours to having times when I'm not sleeping at all. But it's somewhat seasonal or cyclic.

[al.luciddreamer]

These messages have actually answered a very important question for me, too -- and the question was why was I becoming more and more *awake* the longer I meditated?

I think because so many times meditation had led to sleep, I assumed that it always would. But lately it has been a LOUSY way to fall asleep! The longer I meditate, the more energized I feel.

Reading a boring book has been a much better way of inducing sleep lately. I think I'm going to move my meditation time to the daytime. I wonder if it could actually replace caffeine?!

[Akorah]

YES THATS IT! LONG REM STAGE! ahh thankyou.

I used a sleeping pill last night because I didn't want to risk trying to get to sleep without it.. I think I will continue taking them until i have sorted everything else out first like the pre-sleep ritual and waking up earlier. I tried to wake up earlier today but when my alarm went off I was still too tired and hit the snooze button several times then turned it off altogether thinking "f*ck it". When I woke up later (naturally from the very last dream) my eyes were once again really sore. I wrote down the dream I had and its no surprise now.. the dream I had was a very long dream that took many different turns so yeah now i know why :)

will have to try those pills someone mentioned for the eyes that sounds like a good idea.. my eyes must be going crazy during REM.

[Korpo]

The longer I meditate, the more energized I feel. [...]

I wonder if it could actually replace caffeine?!

Meditation is like cleaning up the mind, making space for new inputs, removing stress, and in the long term also healing. I used to meditate during lunch breaks in the spring/summer 2006 and it helped me feel more relaxed, eased stress and helped in general. I did 10-20 minutes outside in the sun.

It is surely more helpful in the long run than caffeine, but also enough sleep is important - neither meditation nor caffeine simply replace that.

Oliver