icy caves, snowy nights

[Alaskans]

I never posted about this, because I think it may be personal, but this would be a good time to do it.

This is relevent for later: Before, I used to dream about medeval armies trying to enter a cave forcefully, they would all get slaughterd. In the last dream, a native guide brought a general and his army to a hidden jungle cave. "No amount of helpless men can penitrate this cave general." They were killed, I fought also this time, but had to run. On waking I realised that this cave was the unknown within me, and that I cannot enter it willfully, so I started letting go of my will.

The army dreams stopped, but then I had more cave dreams. This time they were caves covered in ice, or ice growing in them, and I still was desiring to enter it. Along the same theme, I had dreams of walking through a snowy field at night, all alone, trying to get somewhere.

Long dream short: me and my dad were looking for giant letters hidden in the terrain around where I grew up. suddenly the dream went from a sunny morning, to a snowing night in a few minutes, we called off the hunt. As we were driving off the sun came back again, but the land had totally changed, it was now a craigy place with rediculous cliffs. There were tree's clinging to the cliffs for dear life, they looked ok at the moment but I said; "Soon they will all die," I blamed 'the children' for the soil erosion and the tree's living conditions.
We drove past a huge cave in one of the cliffs (300ft mouth). It was really impressive, there was a wall of ice or a glacier sliding down over the mouth of the cave like a garage door. The cave wasnt totally sealed off, there was still enough space for a person to get inside, but 95% of the entrance was blocked by thick ice.

I am very concerned about this dream. If I cannot enter the cave, then my journey has stopped. Darkness (the snowy night theme) is something that blocks me from seeing. Snow and ice is frozen water, water usually means emotion. The cave is the unknown mystery and wisdom within.

What confuses me about this is, it is saying I need to embrace emotions. But... what I have seen from emotions is all bad, causing nothing but trouble in those around me. they all seem to lower you, either to the plane of normal humans, or lower (like with hate, jealosy, greed etc). My practice also says that human desires are bad. So why such insistance to be tossed around in emotions?

My only thought is that it is telling me to go back to what I used to be like. I used to deal in what I can only describe as 'higher emotions'. I wont go into the details but it is like a language without words that can describe anything in an instant. My first contact with it was when I was 17ish and some being told me about the universe as I was walking to school, years of information in an instant. It has caused me all kinds of super intense, random experiences as a byproduct; once I was in the entire northern hemisphere. I became so buisy with work and ordinary life that I neglected to explore it more. I wasnt so sure of it's use either, it held a lot of power, and the things I learned from it could not be formed into words or thoughts, it couldnt even be stored in the human brain, there is (almost) no way of remembering what I had learned. I am not interested in powers, I have enough trouble with myself as it is. But.. perhaps its not about what you know, perhaps it is only about entering deeper dimensions, through this could someone who knows nothing about the universe become a god? Hmm.. kinda makes sense now that I wrote it all down. :lol: Still, I would like to hear thoughts.

[Alaskans]

No ideas? Agreement? Lately it seems like I have been doing everything wrong, my abilities and judgement continue to fade. These dreams must be related to what is wrong. Well, that and I casually talk about other dimensions and crazy stuff to normal people like im talking about grocery shoping because I dont have any feelings about it. It must be a bad deed to mess with peoples mind like that.

[journyman161]

My thoughts on reading this were that you seem to have a pretty good idea of what it's about. Myabe you simply need a different way to value what you're thinking you're supposed to do.

Then I got to the 'download' part. I'd think such things aren't given to be ignored - it seems to me quite reasonable that after some time of you being involved in 'life,' the 'download' is saying it's time to make a start.

Emotions are not bad things. Viewed properly, they are handy pieces of information about what is occurring & can even be of benefit when reviewing the past. They guide you to areas of conflict or pain, show you where you may have false-to-facts ideas or assumptions & highlight peak importance in the moments of your life - that's peak importance to you for whatever reason.

Where people go wrong with them is they tend to let emotions make the decisions - they feel something & react from the feeling rather than think it through & work out a reasoned response to whatever caused the emotion.

Embracing emotion doesn't mean you have to be ruled by them, it can simply mean allowing them their place & starting to use them as guides to areas you need to look at carefully.

Maturity comes when you can fully experience emotions without being driven by them & without letting them have control over you.

And remember, there are no such things as external events. For each being, an event doesn't happen until the body registers it. The senses record it & pass it along. The brain accepts it & tags it with associations & emotions that depend on past experience. Then the entire package gets brought to the attention of the being for a decision.If step one doesn't happen (the body registering it) then as far as the being is concerned, nothing occurred at all. (note: we're leaving out of this the possibility that beings can register things outside the normal Reality but including what might be considered 'psi' senses)

So everything that happens to a being is internal to that being. If a being gets angry, both the event & the emotion are generated internally - the event outside that begins it is a stimulus only; it doesn't in any way 'cause' the anger or emotion. That comes entirely from within the being/brain/body complex, & is normally the result of past experiences.

So... what I think is you're being told it's time to delve into the centre, find your way into the hidden facets that caused you to lock away your real emotions & release them & deal with them so you can get control of you back. I think that's what the armies & fighting etc are about. You (deep inside) know it's going to be a battle - you wouldn't have locked away minor events. But you have your 'download' info to help & you're a bigger being than when you hid things in the cave.

Time to don your best gear & go looking. And a word of advice - some things are better handled by acceptance & love rather than fighting - sometimes fighting simply empowers the one you fight. Think of martial arts where you use the attacker's strength & impetus against him - if you go in boots & all, you may find yourself victim to a suddenly strengthened 'monster' in the depths of the cave, where going in prepared to accept what comes at you could lead to an enlightening conversation with a fragment of yourself.

Remember there are those here who will willingly help you if you find difficulty.

Good luck & let us know how you do...

[Pneumaphor]

Journey,

I applaud your interpretation! I believe your screen name fits you very well! I second this interpretation. I would only add a redundant point: Carl Jung said, when discussing this issue, "The purpose of the descent as universally exemplified in the myth of the hero is to show that only in the region of danger (watery abyss, cavern, forest, island, castle, etc.) can one find the "treasure hard to attain" (jewel, virgin, life-potion, victory over death)." The main advice I would give goes something like this: When you do get the keys to that inner Ferrari, you don't have to push it to its limit the first time you drive it, or the second time either for that matter. Get my drift? :)

One more thing, ice melts from constant, steady application of heat (consciousness) over time, not all at once so please do not rush anything, which would be akin to rushing the growth of a plant, i.e., self-defeating.

[Alaskans]

Wow, thank you both so much, your responses were more than I hoped for, they came from pure good intention, thats why.


And remember, there are no such things as external events. For each being, an event doesn't happen until the body registers it. The senses record it & pass it along. The brain accepts it & tags it with associations & emotions that depend on past experience. Then the entire package gets brought to the attention of the being for a decision.If step one doesn't happen (the body registering it) then as far as the being is concerned, nothing occurred at all. (note: we're leaving out of this the possibility that beings can register things outside the normal Reality but including what might be considered 'psi' senses)

So everything that happens to a being is internal to that being. If a being gets angry, both the event & the emotion are generated internally - the event outside that begins it is a stimulus only; it doesn't in any way 'cause' the anger or emotion. That comes entirely from within the being/brain/body complex, & is normally the result of past experiences.
Thats so true, if I were to continue on the whole "Emotion is illogical" thing, would anything exist beyond what is seen?


My thoughts on reading this were that you seem to have a pretty good idea of what it's about. Myabe you simply need a different way to value what you're thinking you're supposed to do.
That has been a problem for me, I have been acting like im desensitised to what I know. It is like I have been given so many advantages to see the truth that my will is somehow weakened. If God himself came down and told me to change something about myself, I might not have done it. I envy those who hear God once in thier life and thier life is totally changed because of it. Sometimes I feel like the Jews who just after seeing God stop an army with a wall of fire and part the red sea, started worshiping idols and having orgies the moment Moses was out of sight on the mountain. Ok, thats a little hard on myself :P I shouldnt rant on about weaknesses anyways, that is making excuses.

You were right about the download thing, it is off topic, but it was telling me to make a start. I had an amazing experience as a kid, that should have guided my life, but later on I didnt beleive it was real. The 'download' kickstarted me, I began to realise my early experience was real.

This is definately something important in my life. Its not just the dreams, some people have read me and they say that my heart is broken, that it is the greatest thing facing me. Only.. I dont know why. Could it be from my previous life? Shouldnt those things have been wiped away with my memories? That is more excuses :roll: They couldnt tell me anything to help.
Maybe I was shown the missing part, but I didnt go with her...

Thank you for your responses, I have read them many times, there is stuff in there relating to things I didnt even mention, testement to the inspiration we get when we truely have good intention.

[Alaskans]

It's amazing what a few weeks in desert seclusion can do. Yesterday, suddenly, all my answers came at once. These included.

As for my above concerns.. thats all garbage to me now. If you look at your bad side (right side) it really, actually grows, if you look at your good side(left), IT grows. I started pointing out my bad traits because I am so paranoid of showing off, I have learned that is a big sin, but it led to my dark side growing.

My disattachment to my knowledge was easily solved. Wisdom is eternal apearantly, even if we get alzheimers and forget, another blessing from God :)
-----

The ice has two meanings, one of them is supernatural.

The other does relate to emotion, Im certain because of a dream I had...

I was in this polar looking place and I was building an igloo with a tiny fireplace in it made of little bricks. I was going to burn a snowman to keep warm, I was freezing to death. 2 eskimos arrived and they began to cry over me, something about me was very sad to them. They thought I wanted to help the snowman. I told them I was just going to burn it to keep warm, but they wouldnt listen. They started to take apart what I made. They took down the tiny fireplace and made a gravestone with the little bricks. With the ice from my igloo they made another next to it that was smaller.


Dreammoods.com =
"To see a snowman in your dream, suggests that you are emotionally cold or frigid. Perhaps you have been a little cold-hearted and insensitive. Alternatively, it is symbolic of playfulness and time of togetherness."

"To see or live in an igloo in your dream, symbolizes something that appears cold and frigid on the outside, but is really a warm and caring person on the inside. Alternatively, the igloo represents the feminine and hard cold barrier that sometimes need to be broken down"

"To see a lit fireplace in your dream, symbolizes contentment, warmth, and comfort.
To dream of lighting or stirring a fireplace, suggests a burning a desire or your need to get to the heart of a matter/situation.
To see an unlit fireplace, is indicative of low energy, disinterest, or disheartenment" (wasnt lit, all I had to burn was ice/snow)

"To see a headstone in your dream, represents a forgotten or buried aspect of yourself which you need to acknowledge. Consider also the message on the headstone. It may indicate a statement about your life and its condition."

"To see a brick in your dream, represents your individual ideas and thoughts. Experience and/or heartbreak may have hardened you."

Well.. when you put it that way, I guess this is a very very sad dream :cry:

<Ahem> But.. I understand now.. I have used my head so much to understand this universe, that I never visited my heart. I have to make my heart my home. The heart is on the left side, our angel side (thank you God for that), but in our head we will always be fighting to keep the light in power because it is occupied by our demon and angel.

[Alaskans]

This is actually mostly a discussion amoung myself.. because it is important to me and I need to organize my thoughts, but any comments are welcome :)

thinking about the fireplace..

It is saying that I have small, narrow, or many ideas that have hardened me, and that I am trying to burn/destroy the aspect of me that is cold hearted or insensitive using those ideas. I am trying to burn that part, the snowman, because I dont want it, it is killing me in a blizzard.


Why would the headstone be made of the bricks.. hmm because I need to look at my old experiences or ideas that have created this problem. All I can think of, is that the bricks are my many theories in my quest to understand, none of them saying I shouldnt feel. I supose some of them say I cant get too close to anyone.. like that everyone should be your best friend, wether they are a stranger, hate you, or love you, everyone should be treated equal. Or that you should be equally compassionate to everyone, because we are only as compassionate as the least compassion we show. I dont see how that could effect anything however.

Not much luck moving to my heart, I always go back to my mind. I have been inspired to do art again though, thats good. For those reading this, Im not some insensitive jerk, I beleive in benevolence, even if my mind I occupy is ruled mostly by dark, and my heart does not feel anything, I , the mind within the mind, beleives in learning the greatest good and doing it. I might not feel much when I do it, but wouldnt feeling good about doing something generous be recieving something for it anyways?

[CFTraveler]

wouldnt feeling good about doing something generous be recieving something for it anyways? It depends. If you do something good for another because you want to feel good, then the good feeling is coming from something else and could be considered that way- but if feeling good is just a natural outcome of doing something good for someone, then I would say that it's not. Because the feeling is coming from you outward, so it's not cause, it's effect.
A subtle difference.
If you have the good intention, even if it originates in your mind, it'll open up your heart, whether you want it or not. (MO, of course.)

[Pneumaphor]

It's amazing what a few weeks in desert seclusion can do. Yesterday, suddenly, all my answers came at once. These included.

As for my above concerns.. thats all garbage to me now. If you look at your bad side (right side) it really, actually grows, if you look at your good side(left), IT grows. I started pointing out my bad traits because I am so paranoid of showing off, I have learned that is a big sin, but it led to my dark side growing.


Alaskans,

It's not that one side is good and one side is bad, though I realize that's not exactly what you were meaning and you were 'thinking out loud.' Nonetheless, do recommend turning the knob down a little on the good/bad dynamic as it would be more accurate to refer to one side as wild and the other as civilized. The goal is to bring them into balance. I would recommend trying a Hemi-Sync CD so that you can get a feeling of what it's like to have the two brain hemispheres balanced, even if someone else is doing it for you. Balanced brainwaves are actually substantially more powerful, and exponentially clearer. They are more powerful in the way that bass sounds are more powerful than tinny sounds as their actual wavelengths are much longer. You can balance the hemispheres easily with some disciplined meditation, which is what I would wholeheartedly recommend to you. Meditation will give you a good set of brakes and an excellent microscope among other things. Every little bit counts in the awareness game.

It's fascinating to hear of your progress. Try seeding your dreams for an answer, it works for me. As you go to sleep, crank up the sincerity knob, relax, and say as many times as you can, "God, show me a symbol I can understand easily," or, "show me a solution." Keep the dreams you need help with in mind while you're doing this. You're seeding the dream, programming it to clarify itself and allowing it to actually happen since you're calling on the Highest Power for help. You can say anything else but keep it short. Plant only one seed per night. The last dream you have before waking should be the one you asked for.

A guy named Mendeleev went to sleep once intensely thinking about how to classify elements by their atomic weights. When he woke up the last dream he had contained the periodic table of elements and he wrote it all down on a napkin. It only required correction in three places. True story! Seed your dreams. Good luck! :D

[Freawaru]

I am very concerned about this dream. If I cannot enter the cave, then my journey has stopped. Darkness (the snowy night theme) is something that blocks me from seeing. Snow and ice is frozen water, water usually means emotion. The cave is the unknown mystery and wisdom within.

What confuses me about this is, it is saying I need to embrace emotions. But... what I have seen from emotions is all bad, causing nothing but trouble in those around me. they all seem to lower you, either to the plane of normal humans, or lower (like with hate, jealosy, greed etc). My practice also says that human desires are bad. So why such insistance to be tossed around in emotions?



In my experience one needs emotions, even the so-called "bad" ones like hate, jealousy, fear, anger, greed, ... to enter the "unknown". I know, many tranditions seem to teach otherwise, but I think they only do so to the beginners. Usually, people who start the Path (or are not even on it) are not in control over their emotions, their mind is like a wild horse (asian traditions often compare to the elephant). One can sit on it, barely, but it never goes where it should. So the first step is to tame the mind and that includes taming emotions. To many people emotions and desires are the biggest obstacles for taming which is why they are often blamed for everything.

Once a certain control is established emotions provide the necessary energy to enter your "cave". Some traditions speak of "transformation" in this case. But also in real life emotions, even fear or anger, can be very usefull during certain situations.

I suggest to let them rise again, but stay in control. When hate arises let it happen. Observe your mind during this altered state. Watch the thoughts and images, the energies. How does you body feel when you experience hate? How does hate (or any onther emotion) alter your movements, how you sit, how you talk? Can you concentrate better or worse or maybe better and worse on other things as usual? Do you prefer other movies or books than usual? Stuff like that.

The mind with all it's emotions and desires can become your best friend, you most powerfull ally - don't mistreat it. Love it.

As to this saintly experience of "compassion for everything and everyone": it is a STATE of mind. Like dream is a state of mind. It has nothing to do with suppressing emotions or mistreating perfectly human desires. It has nothing to do with raping yourself when you become aware that you prefer one person to another. This state of sainthood is as different to how we normally percieve and are as deep sleep is to dreaming.

[Alaskans]

Thank you friends for your comments.


[I] recommend turning the knob down a little on the good/bad dynamic as it would be more accurate to refer to one side as wild and the other as civilized.
I understand what you are saying, and I've had good things come out of helping the two to get allong. I used strong contrasts, but not strong feelings when I explained. It is rather fascinating to me that whenever I do something to remove or destroy any possible negs, I end up getting my entire right side as well, the intention doesnt differentiate between my 'chaotic' side and a neg.

Try seeding your dreams for an answer
I tried this, it worked just as you said it would :)


In my experience one needs emotions, even the so-called "bad" ones like hate, jealousy, fear, anger, greed, ... to enter the "unknown".
I was going to say I've never had an experience from a bad emotion, but once I got angry at negs, went on a warpath, then had an obe to an important realm. I felt damaged by the anger afterwords, but then ended up forgiving the negs, you really cant hate someone for ignorance.( Compassionately push them away if you cant help them, destroy them if you have to, is my new policy.) I think the obe probably just happened because of all the energy I was focusing on another dimension.

I know the line where emotion becomes magic, if thats what you're thinking of. I stopped exploring that a few years ago, about when the dreams started. (Or maybe it was half a year ago.. months have been years for me :P)


As to this saintly experience of "compassion for everything and everyone": it is a STATE of mind. Like dream is a state of mind. It has nothing to do with suppressing emotions or mistreating perfectly human desires. It has nothing to do with raping yourself when you become aware that you prefer one person to another.

You're saying a saint can allow bad emotions to manifest and still be a saint? A little off topic, but I always wondered why Jesus killed that fig tree just because it didnt have any figs for him. Seemed very evil to me. I understand though. Its not what we feel, but how we feel about how we feel. Having a negative reaction to a negative emotion means placing the blame on yourself, that would be being uncompassionate to a person. Chastising yourself does no good because it is the same as doing it to someone else. I have been in the state of experiencing emotions but not being effected by them.


This state of sainthood is as different to how we normally percieve and are as deep sleep is to dreaming.
I supose that is true. In my understanding we are not our bodies (our actual situation is far more fascinating). The state of 'sainthood' comes because our internal environment is in that state, we're just going along with it. Like right now my internal environment is packed full of chistmass dinner so I cant think very straight, this response took forever :P

Merry Christmass
--Luke

[CFTraveler]

My internal environment is so full of Christmas dinner I barely can type these words.

Merry Christmas, everyone, and have a great evening. *drifts into a coma*