Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows-WARNING-SPOILERS

[CFTraveler]

DUE TO POPULAR DEMAND THIS THREAD IS TO DISCUSS THE BOOK, SO DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS YET!


I'll start- I always thought Snape was a good guy.
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/verkleidung/costumed-smiley-043.gif

[blacktiger057]

I thought that Harry was a horcrux...before I read the 7th book, I dedicated one week of my life to reread books 1-6. In book 2(I think), Dumbledore even said that Voldemort poured a little of his soul into Harry, and that is essentially what horcruxes are.

The only reason I thought that RAB was Regulus Black was because I read the Mugglenet book :) . Alot of the theories were correct. Great job Mugglenet!

I still thought Dumbledore would 'pull a gandalf', but at least he could talk with Harry at the end. And my fav quote from the series is my sig.

I cried when Snape died, when the epilogue ended, and in malfoy manor when I thought Hermione was going to die. Oh, and I also cried when Dobby, Fred, and Voldy died(yeah, I'm a little too emotionally attached to the whole series :lol: ). I just feel sorry for Tom because he made these big elborate plans to kill Harry, and then was foiled by a simple expelliarmus. And a bad childhood.

Did anyone else notice that Snape, Voldy, and Harry had very similiar childhoods, but all became different people? Harry was good, Snape was in the middlish, and Voldemort was bad. So it just comes to show you that "It is our choices, Harry, that determine what we truly are, far more than our abilities." :)

I LOVE HARRY POTTER!

Scott :)

Thanks CF for creating this thread :wink:

[CFTraveler]

I still thought Dumbledore would 'pull a gandalf', but at least he could talk with Harry at the end. And my fav quote from the series is my sig. So did I. So when Harry ended up in the astral and talked to Dumbledore, I was wondering.


I cried when Snape died, I didn't cry but I was very sad for him. I was very sad for him from the prior book when they showed his youth and how the guys at Hogwart's treated him. I knew that he was in love with Harry's mom, so I knew he was looking out for him, especially after killing Dumbledore. He kept yelling at him to run away.

Oh, and I also cried when Dobby, Fred, and Voldy For some reason, Dobby's death hit me harder than any of the rest (besides Dumbledore in the previous book). He was so cool! But then Kreacher more than made up for him.

I just feel sorry for Tom because he made these big elborate plans to kill Harry, and then was foiled by a simple expelliarmus. And a bad childhood. I just felt sorry for Moldybutt because he was so wrong about everything, and the knowledge that he could never 'get' it.

Snape was in the middlish, I thought that Harry was just lucky- but of course it was more than that. But IMO Snape was the real hero, because he sacrificed his whole life to help Dumbledore in the quest to defeat Moldybutt, and had to kill him. That had to be hard, knowing how close they really were.



I LOVE HARRY POTTER!

Scott :)
Me too- I hope the next series is about their kids. Poor kids with those names! :lol: :lol:

[Tom]

Sure it is a war, but I was amazed by how many characters were killed off in the last book. I lost track of some of them because they were bumped off so casually.

Mostly I just want to keep reading what everyone else has to say about the book. :)

[blacktiger057]

I can't believe that Lupin and Tonks didn't even get a Death Scene...even the little bird got a death scene, c'mon!

[blacktiger057]

I think that Snape's death was one of the most touching moments in the book. He said "look at me" because he wanted to die looking into Lilly's eyes. I just found that very touching and sad.

But I say Snape was in the middle because JK Rowling said that if it weren't for Lilly, Snape would have stayed with Voldemort.

[CFTraveler]

JK Rowling said that if it weren't for Lilly, Snape would have stayed with Voldemort. What does she know? She's just the author! :P

[Jonathan2525]

Hello all,

Did anybody catch the recent news about Dumbledore from Rowling? I didn't see that coming, it never occurred to me. Did it occur to anyone else here? When you think about it really fits in with the book, I can't believe it never crossed my mind.

[CFTraveler]

I only caught about two seconds of it so I didn't get the details- So was Grindenwald his bf? And is she going to write a book about this?

[Arise]

I knew at the end of book six that dumbledore asked snape to kill him.. Was weird when it was proven in book seven

[artdragondream]

Yes, Dumbledore was Homosexual and no, Rowling is NOT going to wright any more books based in the Harry Potter world (past, present, or future).

~Scott

[CFTraveler]

I got that, (thanks for the info about the book) but did she say anything about Grindenwald?

[Jonathan2525]

CFTraveler, she didn't say that they had a romantic relationship but rather that Dumbledore had fallen in love with Grindelwald and that it blinded him as to his dark side. Here is the exact question and answer:

Q: Did Dumbledore, who believed in the prevailing power of love, ever fall in love himself?

JKR: My truthful answer to you... I always thought of Dumbledore as gay. [ovation.] ... Dumbledore fell in love with Grindelwald, and that that added to his horror when Grindelwald showed himself to be what he was. To an extent, do we say it excused Dumbledore a little more because falling in love can blind us to an extend, but he met someone as brilliant as he was, and rather like Bellatrix he was very drawn to this brilliant person, and horribly, terribly let down by him. Yeah, that's how i always saw Dumbledore. In fact, recently I was in a script read through for the sixth film, and they had Dumbledore saying a line to Harry early in the script saying I knew a girl once, whose hair... [laughter]. I had to write a little note in the margin and slide it along to the scriptwriter, "Dumbledore's gay!" [laughter] If I'd known it would make you so happy, I would have announced it years ago!

Q: [Speaker thanks Jo for the Dumbledore answer.]

JKR: You needed something to keep you going for the next 10 years! Oh, my god, the fan fiction now, eh? [Applause.]

[CFTraveler]

Thanks Jon. In retrospect it makes sense.

[thoth]

I guess it makes sence about him, but I don't like that about him. I don't have a problem with gays, I have friends who I like and respect who are. And I also liked Dumbledore, and still do. This revelation, however, will probably start a lot of 'Michal Jackson' references and such especially since he was the headmaster. I guess this is at the core of my dislike about this.

As a whole, I was a bit disappointed at the book. I think it was because I read most of the theories out there. Compared to some of them, the book was lacking creativity. It was short, and the first 2/3 of the book was pretty boring.


Side note:
The Sword of Truth series is far better in my opinion. It's aimed at an older audience(older/mature teens) and is very violent/graphic at times. Not as dark or depressing as some parts of LOTR, but far more violent in comparison. The author is very good at describing the characters, fight sequences, etc..

[blacktiger057]

I think that announcing DUmbledore to be gay only gave a more powerful meanhing to the series. We see that DUmbledore was probably the wisest and most powerful person in the series, and making him gay makes us realize that we cannot and should not judge people by there sexual preferences.

THe priest of my church gave a homily about this and how being gay is an abomination and that none of us should be HP fans anymore. I was really disgusted. I think that alot of people need to grow up and stop being so homophobic.

I laughed when I read this, though, because I immediately thought of Potter Puppet Pals...I guess they did have something right after all. :lol:

[Kunama]

I totally agree Black Tiger - I am a huge fan of HP, and love Dumbledore. I don't think it matters one bit about being gay. I'm just a little more sad for him, as he lost his mother,Ariana and then Gridelwald and then his brother at the same time. Thats really tough. :cry:

[CFTraveler]

Some important information has surfaced about Harry Potter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-Huwlg2kY

Ok, it hasn't- but watch it anyway.
:lol:

And repeat after me: "Pantaloonius Poopuckus" *wand flick*

[blacktiger057]

My favorite out of all those PPP videos is the mysterious ticking noise!

Snape...Snape...Severus Snape...
Dumbledore...

:lol:

[Korpo]

I really enjoyed reading this book, for many reasons. While being terribly unrealistic, the lack of violence on behalf of the good guys is refreshing. I just wonder how they can cast "Stupefy" the whole time and have to deal with the same bad guys over and over again... Obviously a good choice for a book that might also be read by younger audiences.

There are several deep topics in this book, and maybe I can touch on some:

Voldemort represents the mind and Harry represents the soul. It is very explicitly said by Dumbledore to Snape when Harry sees them in Dumbledore's study in the Pensieve. Snape thinks of Harry as a mediocre wizard in skills, and from Snape's perspective he certainly is. Snape has achieved some of the highest accomplishments in the art, including being able to fly without an aid and shielding his mind from Voldemort without arousing suspicion. Both Snape and Voldemort show how they through determination and will forged their magical powers - which are here represented as powers of the mind - to this degree. Dumbledore explains to Snape that it will ultimately be Harry's soul, not Harry's mind, that will triumph over Voldemort.

I always look out for such elements in works of fiction. ;)

Rowling also presents every characters' failings and the reasons for their downfall very precisely:

Both Sirius and Voldemort have to pay ultimately for their careless attitude towards house elves. Sirius is betrayed by Kreacher because others manipulate his feelings. Voldemort leaves Kreacher behind to die because he doesn't even bother to know about house elves' magical capabilities.

Dumbledore's secrecy over his personal shame is ultimately represented in the curse that slowly takes his life. It eats him up. The fact that he never talks about this to anyone leads to several errors that he only realises in hindsight, and falling for the curse of the ring is only the visible expression of this behavior. Instead of confiding in anyone, he succumbs to it, in a sense.

Both Dumbledore and Snape are very much alike in that due to childhood events they distance themselves from anyone else and carefully control the access anyone gets to their personal perimeter. Both are driven by the shame of someone else's death. Snape's intervention did not save Lily, and Dumbledore was even never sure if it was him who killed his sister, but nevertheless his actions had part in bringing on her demise.

Throughout the book the theme of remorse and redemption is also replayed. Voldemort shows no remorse and hence cannot be saved. Snape's remorse becomes the driving force for the redemption work he does over decades. Wormtail shows only one lapse of remorse and this shows him as redeemable, if only remotely. Dumbledore's remorse makes him refuse positions of power like becoming the Minister of Magic ever after he saw where his enchantment with Grindelwald's personality and plans took him. Percy Weasly confesses to his family his arrogance and is forgiven. The Malfoys in the end chose caring about their son over anything else, including Narcissa explicitly betraying he Dark Lord for news about her son. And even Scrimgeour is redeemed by not giving away Harry in the end (though his motives remain unclear).

Rita Skeeter serves as a voice of a lesser moral: She condemns Dumbledore for his deeds as a youth. Only through the accounts of Aberforth and the dead Dumbledore it becomes possible to see the higher moral, that Dumbledore, like Snape, turned his life around.

Snape is especially remarkable that he does not stop to love Lily after he's being rejected and condemned, risks his life for her even after that, and then dedicates his life to a task given to him in her memory. He pays dearly for the obsessions of his youth.

If you look closely, almost no character Harry reveres is ultimately left without a blemish. Seeing Sirius and James taunt Snape is one of these moments, Dumbledore's past serves a similar purpose. Harry as a growing youth has a tendency to put people on a pedestal only to be disillusioned in his quest for a father figure he never had. One of the great qualities of Harry's is that he does not get stuck in judgement, even though he is not immune to it.

[Korpo]

This morning I thought about the Potter world some more after reading the beginning of the conversation between the Muggle Prime Minister and the Minister of Magic in "The Half-Blood Prince". I thought about what Muggles and the magic people represent.

When I look at the last book it seems to me that Muggles are non-psychic people. While wizards and witches represent the psychically gifted, they don't seem to represent the spiritually grown-ups. Their choices do not seem better informed or better than anyone else's. In fact, Voldemort is representing the worst of this - the use of powers for advancing nothing but one's own goals.

I already mentioned that the conflict between soul and mind is played out between Harry and the Dark Lord. The people that ultimately make the difference, who stand by Harry, who fight the battle of Hogwarts, are those who stand by their principles, by what they feel is right, who show courage, who put love first. Instead of making up a famous last stand at the end (like let's say happens on several occasions in Lord of the Rings) Rowling choses to reinforce the defendants with their loved ones and thus they become an overwhelming force. Courage spreads. The shining example attracts others.

None of the youthful protagonists are great magicians in their own right. Rowling portrays all the boneheaded beginner mistakes Harry and his friends make. The world isn't saved by the power one cultivates but by courage, principles and staying true to oneself. Harry even goes to sacrifice himself to save everyone.

Often during the series it is portrayed how magic adds wonder to Harry's world. And often also burden and responsibility. This is a very interesting view to take on psychic powers, and certainly a valid one.

[poème]

Rowling choses to reinforce the defendants with their loved ones and thus they become an overwhelming force. Courage spreads. The shining example attracts others.

This is so beautifully said…
Harry needed his friends to defeat Voldemort; he would have never defeated him without their help and support. The author really seems to choose to picture that it was not his fight alone, and that there was not only one hero, but actually many...

Both your posts are very insightful by the way :)

[CFTraveler]

Often during the series it is portrayed how magic adds wonder to Harry's world. And often also burden and responsibility. This is a very interesting view to take on psychic powers, and certainly a valid one. I agree, which is why I often worry at the free dissemination of certain principles- part of me is glad it's out there to empower people and another part of me worries if this may not be for the good of all.

[Korpo]

It seems to me that a technique is only as effective as the capacity of a person allows. So I think it's the person and the personality who determine the outcome, not so much the technique. I don't think one can protect anyone from what they are, which is reflected in their desires, beliefs, thoughts and actions. And techniques or not someone desiring to will always find a way to shoot him- or herself in the foot. There simply is no cure for the lack of commonsense nor an ultimate protection against it.

In this sense there is no safe technique either. You can even pursue meditation to your detriment. Again - to me - it would not so much be the meditation itself doing the harm, but the obsessive-compulsive use thereof.

Actually I also disagree with Rowling's portrayal of magic. With her it seems like nothing but a knack or skill you acquire, almost as ready-made as technology. I miss the mystery of it in her writings. The best of fantasy writing and also the best of sci-fi has a sense of not-understood mystery, not-resolved secrets and questions left open, IMO.