Astral Plane = Collective Unconscious ?

[ButterflyWoman]

I'm reading and very much enjoying a book called Magical Use Of Thought Forms: A Proven System of Mental & Spiritual Empowerment. So far I've learned what an imaginary number is (something I never understood previously) and some basic stuff about physics (some of which I sort of knew, though I'm definitely no physicist!) and some things about Tibetan mysticism/magick and a bunch of other cool stuff...

The latest concept from this book that I'm mulling over is the idea that the Astral Plane is actually a sort of shared unconscious reality, that which Jung noted as the "collective unconscious", and that it is accessed through the imagination and sometimes other means.

I find this idea resonates with me quite a lot, and it makes perfect sense to me, more than some other models and/or metaphors I've seen and heard.

I'm curious now how other people perceive the Astral, and if this description (which I may not be explaining properly, I admit; the author of the book builds a better and clearer argument than I just did) works for anyone else?

Ultimately, I'm not sure it matters how I conceptualise it, but I'm quite intrigued and therefore curious now. :)

[CFTraveler]

I agree, and it makes sense to me. IMO we create our reality in all aspects of reality, from the 'gross' to the 'subtle' and all its' possible range(s). So I do think that the terms 'astral planes', 'subtle realities', 'Akashic Records', 'ether' and 'collective unconscious' are probably interchangeable. Where it changes a bit is when we inject consciousness in it (as we combine right and left brain involvement in the process) then it becomes 'collective consciousness' (at least small pools of consciousness') and that is probably what is happening right now, which some call 'awakening'.
Gee I really sounded newagey there, didn't I?
:shock: :D

[RyanParis]

I'm curious now how other people perceive the Astral

Besides it being the dimension where we dream, I see it as one of the spiritual dimensions.

[Pneumaphor]

OlderWiser,

It is definitely true, IMO. I once asked a girlfriend of mine to try to meet me in a dream. I told her to say 30 times before sleep "I'm going to meet Ron in a dream." I did the same thing using her name that night. We had the same dream that night, I from my perspective and she from hers, but together in the same room around a square table on which I gave a profound spiritual lesson, totally symbolically, that she never could have understood (in her waking state) and I barely did!!! I didn't know I had it in me. :D

Nonetheless, she recalled the dream in exact detail the next day and so did I. Since this happened, Aunt Claire's posts about travelling astrally with a group have become exceedingly interesting to me. But, yes, this proves to me that the collective unconcious is a valid concept and CJ really was all he seemed to be!!! I knew it! I love Carl Jung! Have you read "Memories, Dreams, Reflections"?

[Three_Nails]

I fully believe the astral plane is as close as humans can get to the spiritual. It is a the first in a levels of spiritual places.

[Psychotronic]

Astral can be our collective spiritual way or something like spiritual school to breaking the barriers in our subconsciousness. The way of consciousness to the sources of life and existence in our subconsciousness. There is something interesting. :D If we presume everything is consciousness, so absolutely everything is in astral anyway. :D It can be our collective unconscious, but collective with absolutely everything, with whole conscious existence. :D

[Aunt Clair]

IJung noted as the "collective unconscious", and that it is accessed through the imagination and sometimes other means. ...I'm curious now how other people perceive the Astral,
I agree to a point . I feel that the mindscapes are personal , the middle astral is collective and global and mutable and the higher planes are more constant and temporally stable .

[beone]

I agree to a point . I feel that the mindscapes are personal , the middle astral is collective and global and mutable and the higher planes are more constant and temporally stable .


This makes a lot of sense to me. What would be beneficial to the observer (e.g., me) would be the ability to understand where we are when travelling while in the planes. For example I do understand that I am changing locations, such as when I find myself in a totally different environment, for example: I am alone in a large field gazing at an infinte sky of stars, now I am running/skipping/flying through a location with small homes built on piers with water underneath, now I am in the prescence of another being. These represent different scenerios which I experienced from one projection, where I know that I am in a different locale of the astral. However I do not think about "Where am I in the Astral?" while I am in the astral. Rather, I reflect after the fact and then can guess at where I was, but from the physical waking state. Any suggestions as to better understanding the planes while during the experience?

Now, and more importantly, in regards to collective and personal... I feel that sometimes in dreaming as well as during OBEs, I must (sometimes) overcome a difficult situation, one that may invole something fearsome, such as a confrontation with another entity. (I must admit that the fearsome events occur more frequently in dreams, but as I have found there is NOT ALWAYS a great difference between dream-worlds and astral planes, other then perspective and control; or state of mind.) As I later reflect on this (above confrontations, otherwise "nightmares"), I can see that perhaps an entity was formed by myself, a creation of mine which for whatever reason I must confront. However, within a collective arena, there is the possibilty of confronting an entity which did not originate from my own subconscious. How do we tell the difference, and does it matter?

Note that from my experiences, during obe, I have been in the presence of others who were dreaming (or obeing but thought that they were dreaming). Thus I can conclude that a collective atmoshpere exists, but can not determine the boundaries as to "private" and "public" space.

[CFTraveler]

I obviously don't know how to recognize planes (unless they're obvious) but in hindsight I've found that when the characters I meet have a symbolic value in regards to what's going on in my life, then I think they're self-created thoughtforms, but if they're just characters I meet just like people I would meet wherever I go, I think they're probably part of the collective.
Just how I interpret my own experiences, though. Of course, Guides and Avatars are another story.

ps. How I recognize planes is by asking Aunt Clair. :D

[JoSac]

Ima put that on my book list.

But, what do u mean by a shared unconcious reality?

Like a world for our dream characters?

JS

[CFTraveler]

Ima put that on my book list.

But, what do u mean by a shared unconcious reality?

Like a world for our dream characters?

JS No, the thoughtforms or reality generated by the unconscious mind. Like when you're dreaming but don't know you're dreaming, as opposed to lucidly. The background or 'matrix' would be the same, but the information is not necessarily so. Probably where symbols and archetypes are created, or how they express. I suppose this depends.

For example, the collective consciousness is the thoughtform created by people's perceptions and decision making- what most people like, etc. However the collective unconscious would be different, and probably controls the collective consciousness. Like for example why in the seventies 'big hair' was considered beautiful (an archetype) yet you look at yourself with one of those hairdos (or clothes, etc.) and go "wow, that's what I looked like?" To me that is the collective consciousness in action (having everyone dress the same way or follow fads or whatever) but driven and controlled by the collective unconscious: Like what the hairdo looked like, who was the first one to have the idea and why everyone else thought it was 'beautiful', etc.
I always wonder about stuff like that.

[JoSac]

Lol that example helped clear it up a lot.

Thnaks JS

(By the way, me typing thnaks is kind like my trademark i guess u can say. I type it so fast it always comes out this way,i need typing lessons.)