Energy Work and Chi Practice

[cheya]

-Split from New Members thread- CF
'Newbie Transforming Chi Practice'
Hi Oliver,

Thanks for the welcome!


I like Bruce Frantzis work, too.

Yes, I've been following your comments on dissolving, and you've got me paying more attention to that facet of the Energy Gates. Do you incorporate NEW into your dissolving specifically? I know the NEW practice sharpens the ability to feel the energy and move it, but wonder if you have hybridized the techniques in your practice.


What do you mean with "transformation", exactly? What part about Robert's book did you like best then? The element energy work, perhaps?

Actually, so far I'm still just working with the spiraling, brushing, wrapping. What is transformative is that NEW is leapfrogging my ability to feel and direct the chi.

It started when I found that spiraling on the soles of my feet opened energy channels that went straight to a longtime painful knee (which I had not been able to open or move by working directly on my knee!). I looked up the area that was the "doorway" on the outside top of my foot in a reflexology book, and the spiraling movement on my foot had been practically sucked into the reflex area for the knee! Hard to explain, but the movement had a very strong "wanting to go there." That really got my attention, and the knee has been much better, changing into new stance. (And yes, I am scrupulously careful with the knee doing Frantzis swings.)

Now that I'm using the spiraling/brushing somewhere almost every day, the dissolving sensations and ability to stay present in an area is much stronger and I move almost immediately into a kind of downward energy streaming. The spiralling practice seems to have a mind of its own, "wanting" to go to particular places, and those places can ache for awhile or just start a chi flow somewhere else. The whole process is fascinating, like opening doorways, gates, chiflows that of course have always been there in potential but I lacked an effective key.

This morning the spiraling led up behind my knee, a place where, for some reason (duh!) I've never tried to go energetically. Also, by coincidence, a place where I am really stuck. (Right, coincidence. It's stuck and I never go there...) Anyway, a whole nother flow opened up, different quality, like thick emotional, and, mostly off the body! That's a first for this particular technique, but was a sensation that propelled me into a daily chi practice three years ago. I haven't found that sensation again until this morning. That chi sensation led over/through the whole back of my thigh. I'd have more to report, but I had to get up. Drat!

Two days ago, I found myself sensating the inside of my heel bone, totally different density from muscle. Can I learn to differentiate fascia, ligaments etc???? Yesterday I woke up aching from my navel to my knees, and, after wondering what on earth I did or ate that could have caused that pain, I JUST WENT INSIDE AND MOVED THE CHI! Gone-zo. This is blowing me away!

When I really get IN to the tissue, say in my foot, the muscles will start making these little twitches. It starts almost every time, after I "get connected." So you can imagine my excitement when I found trying the spiraling/brushing in a couple clients' shoulder resulted in the same kind of minute twitches in their shoulder muscles! Bull's Eye!

All of this is happening in maybe a month at most since I found the NEW tutorial online. This is so fast, and so much fun. That's what I mean by transformation. And I know I'm just skimming the very tip top of what's possible with this.

I'm going to cover the whole of my body with the spiraling, one section at a time to see what leads where, make my own body chi map. Has anyone reported on using NEW techniques to systematically clear the chi over their whole body? Spiraling/brushing/wrapping every place, one after another, as opposed to chasing the chi around as I've been doing, which is also very effective, but probalby draws different maps. I guess I'm talking about combining spiraling/brushing and dissolving, or maybe using the NEW as a dissolving tool, somewhat different from Frantzis' version, but meaning to clear and refine the chi over the whole bodyfield.

I have to find some alternative for the metal disc slicers and blow torches, images that make me wince. I like flowing water much better!

Anyway, thanks for the welcome and hope I haven't talked your ear off!

Adeha

[Korpo]

No, I ever mix NEW or dissolving. For my purposes that would be counterproductive. It just does not "feel right". If you have good success with that, however, by all means stay with it as long as it is comfortable. Would be a shame if every person responded the same way or had the same needs.

I just know I have developed strong sensitivity for my body and good success with the Frantzis methods. It can done with NEW, too, of course, but NEW is more for stimulating the energy body, while in my perception dissolving, when run to completion on a blockage, is more about calming down. Again, that is not written in stone, and the results change with intent, too, IMO.

I for example go where my needs take me. The body has an intuition for what it needs, so if you go with that, it may be that you dissolve something in your pelvis, shoulder or foot, and something loosens up in your knee. It did for me. My knee was not responding much to direct cleaning. But after I removed some blocks elsewhere it became "workable" as well.

I use the Frantzis work for meditative purposes, combining it with breathing and so on. He described that process in his works. I think this has to be explored more for NEW. I mean, people report good successes while in trance, but that is not entirely the same. Maintaing a mind/breath focus while doing energy work to me is still different from a trance. Some people may think so, but I had pretty weird trances where the mind did not calm down a bit.

So, enjoy your successes. :D

Oliver

[cheya]

Hi Korpo,
Two points you make really stand out for me.


I just know I have developed strong sensitivity for my body and good success with the Frantzis methods. It can done with NEW, too, of course, but NEW is more for stimulating the energy body, while in my perception dissolving, when run to completion on a blockage, is more about calming down. Again, that is not written in stone, and the results change with intent, too, IMO.


This difference between stimulating the energy body and calming down is important. I have noticed I've been somewhat agitated over the last week, and now I'm wondering if that is another unnoticed effect of my NEW practice. Hmmm. Both methods seem to open channels, dissolve blocks, and increase/smooth chi flow. My primary overall goal is using a chi focus to train my mind to stay in the present—sensing as opposed to thinking. "Follow the chi til it leads to the Dao." OBEs and astral travel aren't currently on my agenda.



I use the Frantzis work for meditative purposes, combining it with breathing and so on. He described that process in his works. I think this has to be explored more for NEW. I mean, people report good successes while in trance, but that is not entirely the same. Maintaing a mind/breath focus while doing energy work to me is still different from a trance. Some people may think so, but I had pretty weird trances where the mind did not calm down a bit.

When you say your mind did not calm down a bit, do you mean you were thinking?

The use of the word trance completely passed by me, although I do remember mentions of "light trance", now that I think about it. I'm more interested in bringing myself into the present, out of thinking. I'm not sure how trancing relates to the distinction I've been making between thinking and sensating....this is a very helpful discussion for me.

On his tapes, Frantzis talks about really being IN the body, feeling and being able to move each bone in the spine separately, and being aware of and able to affect the function of each organ. The increased body/chi awareness I'm finding with NEW seems like it would facilitate those goals... but then trancing sounds counter to those goals.

I guess I need to know—what's a trance? Does Robert's use of trance mean something different from sinking your awareness deep inside your tissue and energy body? Trance is the springboard to get out of the body.

Oh dear. Are Frantzis and the Daoists teaching us how to get totally IN the body while Robert Bruce is teaching us how to get OUT?

Well, I'm certainly in my thinking mind tonight!

[Korpo]

This difference between stimulating the energy body and calming down is important. I have noticed I've been somewhat agitated over the last week, and now I'm wondering if that is another unnoticed effect of my NEW practice. Hmmm. Both methods seem to open channels, dissolve blocks, and increase/smooth chi flow. My primary overall goal is using a chi focus to train my mind to stay in the present—sensing as opposed to thinking. "Follow the chi til it leads to the Dao." OBEs and astral travel aren't currently on my agenda.

Have you ever read "Relaxing Into Your Being" or "The Great Stillness"? Because you referenced the "Energy Gates" book instead. A lot of the content in those books relate to what you try to do, so maybe you did? :)

Unlike "Energy Gates" NEW does not seem to have a strong grounding component by default. Because, if you move energy below your feet you do two things - you neutralise its effects on you and you also work the downward current, which stabilises the energetic system and exciting it less. Oh, Frantzis teaches all kinds of directions in energy work, especially in his Qigong courses, but his instructions always start with and heavily emphasise the downward current. In "Energy Gates" he also takes note that the upward current has a strongly spiritualising effect, can trigger OBEs and visions, but also can overtax the energetic system.

Therefore it is interesting that Robert's Energy Raising utilises the upward current, as does the Full Body Circuit. So while these practices are not opposites of Frantzis' practices, they have a different focus I'd say, working the upward current stronger, especially when starting chakra practise. The Indian teachings these relate to almost exclusively work the upward current...

In an energetic system not prepared properly this might lead to problems, however Robert clearly advises to do "secondary circuit work", which means cleaning up blockages through brushing and sponging. Maybe combining this with the downward current would have a different effect to.

Energy Body Bouncing surely is a technique that excites and stimulates the energy body. It is like an exercise program. However, when you exercise within your limits, how do you feel? When you stop before exhaustion, you usually feel agitated and energetic, which again is not what I would call calm.

Still, intent might change all of this, and it might just be that intent on calmness fixes these tendencies. I have not tried. ;)



I use the Frantzis work for meditative purposes, combining it with breathing and so on. He described that process in his works. I think this has to be explored more for NEW. I mean, people report good successes while in trance, but that is not entirely the same. Maintaing a mind/breath focus while doing energy work to me is still different from a trance. Some people may think so, but I had pretty weird trances where the mind did not calm down a bit.

When you say your mind did not calm down a bit, do you mean you were thinking?

Exactly.

I had experiences like this one with Monroe tapes: Time would slow. Energy body awareness would rise. I would get to the edge of OBEing. However, while time seems to slow down, my thinking mind would be in overdrive - it would think even faster, not calm down. My perception of time would slow down to the point where enormous amounts of time would pass between sentences on the tape, while my mind would just blab on. This was certainly a trance, but not meditation at all.


The use of the word trance completely passed by me, although I do remember mentions of "light trance", now that I think about it. I'm more interested in bringing myself into the present, out of thinking. I'm not sure how trancing relates to the distinction I've been making between thinking and sensating....this is a very helpful discussion for me.

Tranceing is simply shifting in a different state of consciousness. Bruce Frantzis notes that a light trance is to be expected when you meditate with eyes closed. It is the detaching from the outer world, looking inside, that can already be considered as trance. You're consciously and willingly moving your awareness into your perception of your own body. By definition that awareness has to come from somewhere, so redirecting awareness already has strong trance properties. I notice time shifts in meditation, too, so that is another trance trait.


On his tapes, Frantzis talks about really being IN the body, feeling and being able to move each bone in the spine separately, and being aware of and able to affect the function of each organ. The increased body/chi awareness I'm finding with NEW seems like it would facilitate those goals... but then trancing sounds counter to those goals.

Not really, but the state of mind matters. You aim for a special kind of trance: the meditative mind. Where you home in on your meditation object, which is here your own body. I think this does not necessarily run counter to NEW, it is more a matter of intention, but I guess you can find out.


I guess I need to know—what's a trance? Does Robert's use of trance mean something different from sinking your awareness deep inside your tissue and energy body? Trance is the springboard to get out of the body.

I'd rather say the "sinking inside" is a special case of tranceing.


Oh dear. Are Frantzis and the Daoists teaching us how to get totally IN the body while Robert Bruce is teaching us how to get OUT?

Not exactly, but a good approximation. Daoists seem to believe that the inner work should be done before "getting out". Robert surely does give you inner work, but agreed - he is using it to teach you to get out. :)

Oliver

[cheya]

Korpo wrote:
"Have you ever read "Relaxing Into Your Being" or "The Great Stillness"? Because you referenced the "Energy Gates" book instead. A lot of the content in those books relate to what you try to do, so maybe you did? :)"

Yes, I've read both of these, although the second is pretty far over my head. Together, they're a lifetime course! I need to reread Relaxing and get with that program. I'm just not ready to give up the Energy Gates exercises, and a little pressed for time to do both.

Korpo wrote: "Unlike "Energy Gates" NEW does not seem to have a strong grounding component by default. Because, if you move energy below your feet you do two things - you neutralise its effects on you and you also work the downward current, which stabilises the energetic system and exciting it less. Oh, Frantzis teaches all kinds of directions in energy work, especially in his Qigong courses, but his instructions always start with and heavily emphasise the downward current.

Therefore it is interesting that Robert's Energy Raising utilises the upward current, as does the Full Body Circuit. So while these practices are not opposites of Frantzis' practices, they have a different focus I'd say, working the upward current stronger, especially when starting chakra practise."

Korpo, this distinction you point to between the upward or downward emphasis is really helpful. Thank you!

Korpo wrote:"Energy Body Bouncing surely is a technique that excites and stimulates the energy body. It is like an exercise program. However, when you exercise within your limits, how do you feel? When you stop before exhaustion, you usually feel agitated and energetic, which again is not what I would call calm."

When I do my chi practice, I don't feel agitated. Agitated for me is more of a mental characteristic, meaning my mind is active and jumping around, rather than focusing in. And when monkey mind gets a chance to grab the amped up chi....watch out! It goes bananas! Maybe that's what's happening to you. For me, empty mind is the key. I can see how bouncing is probably counterproductive to my aims in chi practice, although perhaps not to my healing practice. After chi practice, I feel energized AND calm—smooth and full. Maintaining that space after bouncing will clearly be a challenge.

Korpo wrote:"Still, intent might change all of this, and it might just be that intent on calmness fixes these tendencies. I have not tried. ;)"

How about intent on presence rather than on calmness? Seems like mind can still be thinking and be calm.


Korpo wrote: "I had experiences like this one with Monroe tapes: Time would slow. Energy body awareness would rise. I would get to the edge of OBEing. However, while time seems to slow down, my thinking mind would be in overdrive - it would think even faster, not calm down. My perception of time would slow down to the point where enormous amounts of time would pass between sentences on the tape, while my mind would just blab on. This was certainly a trance, but not meditation at all."

Interesting. Sounds like you are able to think and be aware of your energy body at the same time. Does "aware of" mean sensating, actually feeling inside? I can't do both at the same time. I'm either thinking or sensating. I use moment to moment sensating as an antidote to discursive thought. Not thinking, only feeling. Using the mind to track the chi sensation.

I got this "use your mind to track your chi" thing from Waysun Liao, interestingly, someone who Frantzis supposedly brought to this country and then later cut off ties to, for some reason. Liao says this silent tracking of your chi "life energy" will eventually reconnect you to the Dao. My other current Daoing coach is Raymond Sigrist, through his Daoist Notes at
http://www.apophaticmysticism.com/detai ... chor192409 (http://www.apophaticmysticism.com/detaildao.html#anchor192409)

So here I am trying to integrate some of Robert Bruce's methods into a Daoing program I made up for myself from Frantzis, Liao, and Sigrist's offerings. Writing that makes me really laugh at my own impertinence.

What to do! I am REALLY having fun with this. So I guess it's okay.