Dealing with blockages in energetic bodies (split from b.)

[iadnon]

This thread has been split from Bluebell's Welcome post.
-Admin

Bluebell wrote:
My own experience, so far, is that emotions and thoughts are worse poisons than physical ones, although substances (alcohol, tobacco, eating too much meat etc.) also affect your mind state, but the mental factors, at least for me, are predominant.

Any experience with tobacco interfering in OBE?
I've found in many esoteric texts that tobacco, meat and such have a heavy energetic counterpart in the astral realm. So, when you put them inside your physical body their astral doubles enter your astral double too, making it more "heavy".

In fact, the point in energy work is to move energy and to strengthen your energy-organs so they can work with subtler energy wavelengths.

In other works, it would be like trying to work out your swimming technique in a pool of oil :D

If you wanna experience your body's influence in your energy body and in your mind, try a yoga session. You end up with a crystal clear mind, a settled down emotion-body and a great tranquility.

[Korpo]

Cleaning for you means clean of conflictive emotions and thoughts and "high volume" emotions, right?

Absolutely. :)


How much do you think physical cleaning affects energy body?

Oh, I have no experience with that. I do energy work to cleanse the physical body first, and that is in my opinion much more effective. I mean the way energy->physical is more effective to me than physical->etheric. Indian schools of Yoga have dietary and fasting prescriptions, and there are lesser-known variants of Qigong that work with the process of eating.


My own experience, so far, is that emotions and thoughts are worse poisons than physical ones, although substances (alcohol, tobacco, eating too much meat etc.) also affect your mind state, but the mental factors, at least for me, are predominant.

Yes, stress is a long-term killer, for example. Wears down the body like else only an addiction could (like for fat food, or worse). But usually the addiction comes on top of the stress! :shock:


Any experience with tobacco interfering in OBE?

I quit smoking many, many years ago, so I cannot say. However, it does damage to the body. Damage to the body results in blockages, blockages affect the energy body, so I think it is surely an additional obstacle in any energy-body-centric activity.

Be well,
Oliver

[bluebell]

Yes Korpo I also think energy -> body works in a more powerful way.

I guess I have to stop smoking :oops: no excuses to keep on :D . I have also heard tobacco obstructs subtle energy channels and is not recommended when you want to progress in meditation. So ...

One question for forum: anybody has an idea of what "basic units" may mean in OBE experience?

About 3 weeks ago I felt that during the night I was kind of dissgragating. "I" was, say dissolving, and feeling more and more light, (less density) and it was as if I was dissgregating into pieces that I could "see" and looked like tall rectangular long blocks of a sort of glass (smoked white) and I felt that somebody was telling me I have to keep on with the process unitl a I get to these misterious basic units. This whoever was there telling me to go on was saying that it had to do with consciousness being at different places at the same time (reminds me of an experience told by Robert Bruce in his book). No trace of human or any other "living form". Just the feeling and the rectangular blocks and consciousness of the whole thing.

It felt very good indeed !!!

Then as the time to get up approached, these pieces started combining together again and emotions arouse, as if they are complex combinations of these units (I have no idea if they were basic units, I guess not) and then I started seeing that the combination of pieces (and emotions linked to them) were patterns that had to do with "things I still have to solve". They had to do with actual situations of life but it happened so fast I couldn´t remeber them when I fully woke upl.

Any idea what these basic units could be? It felt really well and quiet in this dissgregated state, whatever it was.

Have a nice and happy day.

[Korpo]

bluebell,

some things about your report strikes me as odd, because you chose your words like that.

The energy work I do is called "dissolving". It works with removing blockages. Blockages of energy flow in our different energy bodies.

The interworkings of energy can trigger those blockages, and this can produces emotions, preset behaviour, patterns in ourselves we have to deal with to become truly free and mature.

The process works with releasing those blockages from the most dense energy to the most subtle. It starts with the physical body, and goes on with the etheric, emotional, mental, psychic and karmic/causal bodies.

At the end of this process the blockages get removed, the issues that keep you from being truly free are removed.

When dealing with blockages, the optimal process is pointing pure awareness at them to make them dissolve and yield their original problem to make them go away.

At least your words reminded me a lot of it.

Oliver

[Dialgo]

Hi there and welcome to AD :)

[bluebell]

Good morning to all.

Thanks for the welcome Dialgo.

Korpo, thanks for your answer. I have no time now but I will say more later. I want to learn how to quote.

Yesterday I tried logging in but I got a message I was banned to the forum but today it´s ok. Any idea why this happens or what to do in such a case?

May all beings be happy and well always.

Sara.

[Korpo]

Korpo, thanks for your answer. I have no time now but I will say more later. I want to learn how to quote.

Take your time. I'm very interested in your answer. :D


Yesterday I tried logging in but I got a message I was banned to the forum but today it´s ok. Any idea why this happens or what to do in such a case?

Such things may happen if your internet provider assigns you an IP dynamically which has been banned once. Logging out of the internet and logging on again might help fix this. We did not ban you. ;)


May all beings be happy and well always.

And back to you, Sara. :D

Oliver

[bluebell]

Take your time. I'm very interested in your answer. :D

I´m afraid I have more questions than answers !!! :lol:

Such things may happen if your internet provider assigns you an IP dynamically which has been banned once. Logging out of the internet and logging on again might help fix this. We did not ban you. ;)

Ok, now I've gotten a very nive answer there, thanks

[bluebell]

bluebell,

some things about your report strikes me as odd, because you chose your words like that.

Odd thigns such as ...? For me the odd things in my own report (words sometimes become short when trying to express some experiences) are these "basic units" that I have no idea what they can be (nothing to do, as far as I know, with energy bodies, os you think they may be?), the absence of forms except for geometrical forms such as the tall cubes and the presence of words (coming from where?) naming things and giving instructions.

Oh I think now I know how to quote :wink:

[bluebell]

The energy work I do is called "dissolving". It works with removing blockages. Blockages of energy flow in our different energy bodies.

It sounds very interesting indeed



The interworkings of energy can trigger those blockages, and this can produces emotions, preset behaviour, patterns in ourselves we have to deal with to become truly free and mature.


I do not understand "interworkings of energy". Do you mean working with energy at different levels? When you say "trigger" you mean that blockages that may have been hidden start to clearly manifest themselves (like: memories, emotions, or even challenging situations in your life that suddenly "spring up")? From my understanding of it, it is the mental -> body patterns that produce preset behaviour, addiction to certain emotional reactions and sickness. That is, all forms of suffering.



The process works with releasing those blockages from the most dense energy to the most subtle. It starts with the physical body, and goes on with the etheric, emotional, mental, psychic and karmic/causal bodies.

Wov !! You have so many bodies ...

:D Yes, I know the theory, however I only feel two: the physical and "the other". When doing energy work I first feel "the other" and after a while is when I start feeling the physical, and the two together. This may trigger emotions, images, thoughts, memories ... Sometimes "the other" is in a different position than the physical and that is how I came to find out that I have more than one body. For mental and emotional ... Do not seem to "have a body". Thoughts seem to come out of the blue, at least when looked at during meditation (haven´t yet seen the mind that is thinking "my" toughts). Emotions ... They come from a thought that triggers a physical reaction (has to do with identification process) and then the emotion is the combination of the mental state+body state (the phisiological process in turn triggers certain thought trains). For me, no emotional body in its own felt so far, but a combination of physical+mental process.

Karmic body , uf, that is a tough one. I have only felt karma like a complicated net woven aorund you that is not really as personal as one may think of it ... No body acknowledged there, so far ...



At the end of this process the blockages get removed, the issues that keep you from being truly free are removed.


Sounds worth trying !!




When dealing with blockages, the optimal process is pointing pure awareness at them to make them dissolve and yield their original problem to make them go away.

This sounds like a very deep concentration of mind on one point, is this right? Could you describe "pure awarenes"? Here in Spain we have a problem with this word. Always trying to get the right translation but there seems not to be!! How do you choose where to concentrate on?

This reminds me of experiences of concentration states I have achieved in meditation, where you focus your mind on one object. If this object is a still object, not a moving object, e.g a part of your body, then the feeling of the body literally dissolves (there are steps in this process) to a point where you try to feel it and instead what you find is air or space but still you know its you. Then it is possible to maintain the sitting position for a long time. This involves the whole body although it starts with parts of it. I mean it is not a sudden thing. No emotions or thoughts in this place !! This is due I think to lack of attention (awareness?).

If you focus your mind on a moving object (like breathing movement or walking) then the whole thing is a bit different. Because you do not loose awareness (maybe this is the pure awareness you talk about?). However the body again seems to literally dissolve and toughts are watched as from outside so you may trace the arisal of emotions etc. and "see" the contents and movements of mind.

This way you may observe patterns and when they come out in normal life you are able to detect them and not let them activate. That is, you become free. At that specific instant!. When you loose awareness, there you are again ... in your own woven jail. Back to the pool!!

Are we talking about the same thing then? Or is your techinique more specific?

My experience is that the blockages are temporarily removed (for example body pains or stifness or strong mental states) but they keep on coming again and again (but in weaker tones) until one day they start fading away. This is my practical understanding of karma so far, as deep imprinted patterns of thought that you need to loosen and finally clear out.

No place for cubes and basic units in my patterns :lol: don´t know what to do with them :lol:

May you be happy always, and help others be happy as well :wink:

Sara

[Korpo]

Hello, Sara, I think we are not talking about the same things.

I had a rather extraordinary meditation experience - call it a glimpse ahead. And I know thoughts are rather tangible things. I know emotion is rather tangible. They have sources. I have felt how thoughts derived from emotions (those spontaneous monkey mind thoughts), how they arose, came into my mind's focus and went away. I could clearly feel a vast sea of emotional energy that gave birth to these kind of thoughts. So, if you tune in to the right "frequency" thoughts and emotions are as real to you as now is the physicality surrounding you. But you must "tune in". There are different perspectives on you as an energetic being, different things to perceive. I tuned in to one where you can directly perceive thoughts and emotions as tangible, let's say as tangible as I can perceive my physical body now.

The two bodies you describe now are the physical and the etheric. The etheric is surrounding the physical, and is subtle and a lot less dense, mobile to a limited extent also, and the energetic support of the physical one. Take the difference between the two, take the difference and subtlety, and imagine (for the time being) having bigger, even more subtle bodies and you can imagine how the emotional and further bodies feel like. They are "hiding" behind the sensations you now get from the first two bodies, and awareness of them and their phenomena will grow the cleaner those first two bodies are - less irritation and interference from more dense sensations. They exist at higher frequencies and are harder to detect.

There are physical/etheric blockages. They have this bodily or energetic feeling about them. But also there are blockages at other levels. Like a mental body blockage. I have felt one of those - a thought pattern influencing my life. It felt abstract, mental, unreal - at the same time it had the same properties as a physical/etheric blockage - feelings of tension, unnaturality, of something not being right. It was more subtle. It is another kind of blockage, but the same phenomenon in another energy body. This can be learnt over time.

About the triggering: When an emotion is triggered in your system, energy gets relocated. This energy is transferred along the energetic channels. If such energy hits blockages, these get "triggered" - uncomfortable emotions arise. The normal process of energetic adaptation to your environment hits resistance. This resistance brings forward negative emotions, an expression of your internal resistance against change. This is what I meant with "interworkings of energy".

Finally, I know that blockages can resolve and reform. I suggest grounding the energy that results from dissolving a blockage. Draw it below your feet. This should aid making it stay gone. There are additional techniques if you are interested, but try if that helps first.

Good success,
Oliver

[bluebell]

Hello, Sara, I think we are not talking about the same things.

Obviously not :D



I had a rather extraordinary meditation experience - call it a glimpse ahead. And I know thoughts are rather tangible things. I know emotion is rather tangible. They have sources. I have felt how thoughts derived from emotions (those spontaneous monkey mind thoughts), how they arose, came into my mind's focus and went away. I could clearly feel a vast sea of emotional energy that gave birth to these kind of thoughts. So, if you tune in to the right "frequency" thoughts and emotions are as real to you as now is the physicality surrounding you. But you must "tune in". There are different perspectives on you as an energetic being, different things to perceive. I tuned in to one where you can directly perceive thoughts and emotions as tangible, let's say as tangible as I can perceive my physical body now.


So in your experience it is the emotion field -> thoughts. Mmm, interesting I will have to look more closely at this !! My own experience is just the contrary. You have had a very interesting experience indeed !! I have never perceived anyhting such as emotional field or tangible thoughts, but now I hope that my mind will open to this possibility. Very interesting, thanks :idea:



The two bodies you describe now are the physical and the etheric. The etheric is surrounding the physical, and is subtle and a lot less dense, mobile to a limited extent also, and the energetic support of the physical one. Take the difference between the two, take the difference and subtlety, and imagine (for the time being) having bigger, even more subtle bodies and you can imagine how the emotional and further bodies feel like. They are "hiding" behind the sensations you now get from the first two bodies, and awareness of them and their phenomena will grow the cleaner those first two bodies are - less irritation and interference from more dense sensations. They exist at higher frequencies and are harder to detect.

Ok I need to learn to feel them then. Question here: is this like trying to feel the space around physical/etheric body but a little further? I will start with the emotional I think it´s more than enough for now. The "problem" I have is that all these things I have felt came espontaneously without looking for them, so I have no practice at all on how to look for them on purpose.



There are physical/etheric blockages. They have this bodily or energetic feeling about them. But also there are blockages at other levels. Like a mental body blockage. I have felt one of those - a thought pattern influencing my life. It felt abstract, mental, unreal - at the same time it had the same properties as a physical/etheric blockage - feelings of tension, unnaturality, of something not being right. It was more subtle. It is another kind of blockage, but the same phenomenon in another energy body. This can be learnt over time.

Yes, I can believe what you say. Takes patience and practice. Grateful to hear first hand experience from somebody.



About the triggering: When an emotion is triggered in your system, energy gets relocated. This energy is transferred along the energetic channels. If such energy hits blockages, these get "triggered" - uncomfortable emotions arise. The normal process of energetic adaptation to your environment hits resistance. This resistance brings forward negative emotions, an expression of your internal resistance against change. This is what I meant with "interworkings of energy".

Think I got it. Guess its difficult to understand only from intelect and no experience like you have. For example, I do not have a clear and consistent perception fo the energy channels (yet :wink:) . Thanks.



Finally, I know that blockages can resolve and reform. I suggest grounding the energy that results from dissolving a blockage. Draw it below your feet. This should aid making it stay gone. There are additional techniques if you are interested, but try if that helps first.

I think I first have to feel this energy, then dissolve it and then I can try this drawing thing. The dissolving experiences I have are "general" not so focused as you describe them. Need to distinguish more. Maybe I´m already feeling all this but I do not acknowledge it.

If it is a not too personal question to answer may you give a practical example of blockages you hace dissolved in mental or emotional or whatever body and how this has affected your day by day life? For example I did meditation retreat for 15 days last summer and had a view on anger that has naturally resulted in the fact that I have only gotten annoyed in my classes ONCE in the whole school year (I teach) which is something extraordinary! at least for my getting annoyed habits.



Good success,
Oliver

Thank you very much Korpo. I would like to know how long will your post stay so I can come and look at it again if I need to revise some of the information you give in it. I am going to keep in touch anyway and share my experience (and for sure ask more questions :roll: ).

Have a nice and happy day

[Korpo]

So in your experience it is the emotion field -> thoughts. Mmm, interesting I will have to look more closely at this !! My own experience is just the contrary. You have had a very interesting experience indeed !! I have never perceived anyhting such as emotional field or tangible thoughts, but now I hope that my mind will open to this possibility. Very interesting, thanks :idea:

Well, it is at least one source of thoughts. I think it is the idea of "monkey mind" thoughts. It is interesting, because I could perceive in this and a later session (from a different "angle") how thoughts arise and go and can derive from emotion.

This is the sort of spontaneous thought that tends to flood your brain when being emotionally aroused. For example when angry, and all this thoughts well up constantly - this is the kind of thought I mean here.

I think the "ego voice" is different from that. I perceived that, too.


Ok I need to learn to feel them then. Question here: is this like trying to feel the space around physical/etheric body but a little further? I will start with the emotional I think it´s more than enough for now. The "problem" I have is that all these things I have felt came espontaneously without looking for them, so I have no practice at all on how to look for them on purpose.

Quite the same for me. Part of it is experience for me, and I fill in the blanks with book knowledge. The energy bodies reside in the same space, but each one is bigger. So, like the etheric's edges surround your physical body, your emotional field is even bigger, but also in the same place as the other.

I only have made indirect observations of the emotional and mental bodies. I have felt blockages in them, but have not had very much direct experience with them. Since blockages can overlap over many bodies (a mental issue interwoven with emotional issues slowly impacting your physical health would be an example), they can sometimes be felt indirectly. I'm trying to obtain a more direct way "there", but I have so much basic physical/etheric work to do... *sigh* ;)


Yes, I can believe what you say. Takes patience and practice. Grateful to hear first hand experience from somebody.

Oh, I was glad to hear of yours, too. Every piece for the puzzle helps.


Think I got it. Guess its difficult to understand only from intelect and no experience like you have. For example, I do not have a clear and consistent perception fo the energy channels (yet :wink:) . Thanks.

Neither do I - that's why I said "glimpse". I do not even know what state or body I was in, because all was feeling. Like a 3-dimensional touch extending into space.

It's a work in progress. ;)


I think I first have to feel this energy, then dissolve it and then I can try this drawing thing. The dissolving experiences I have are "general" not so focused as you describe them. Need to distinguish more. Maybe I´m already feeling all this but I do not acknowledge it.

On re-reading your original account it may be that you relate a very different experience, it was just so strange to find the same words all over used for my energy work.

I'd definitely like to hear about where you get to with these experiences, I personally think these glimpses ahead early in meditation can be very important and define the work we will do.


If it is a not too personal question to answer may you give a practical example of blockages you hace dissolved in mental or emotional or whatever body and how this has affected your day by day life? For example I did meditation retreat for 15 days last summer and had a view on anger that has naturally resulted in the fact that I have only gotten annoyed in my classes ONCE in the whole school year (I teach) which is something extraordinary! at least for my getting annoyed habits.


Well, here it gets a bit tricky. It's hard to say.

I have observed the process of (partially?) resolving a mental blockage (a prejudice), but it was very spontaneous and uncontrolled, I could feel the result in my lower energy bodies. The strong amount of energy that flooded me as result kept me in need of releasing energy for several days - don't know why. It was a very strong experience.

What I mostly work with are physical/etheric blockages. They carry an emotional charge, their release removes body-stored emotions. I have become much calmer, less tense and less often angry since then. It's hard to remember how I was before. ;)

I have still a lot of work left to do before I can continue working on emotional patterns directly. *sigh*


Thank you very much Korpo. I would like to know how long will your post stay so I can come and look at it again if I need to revise some of the information you give in it. I am going to keep in touch anyway and share my experience (and for sure ask more questions :roll: ).

Have a nice and happy day

You, too. :D

These posts don't vanish, they remain accessible. Also we can discuss these topics and any news in other subforums here on the site. Almost nothing gets lost (sometimes we mods hit the wrong button when deleting spam, though ;)).

Oliver

[bluebell]

Well, it is at least one source of thoughts. I think it is the idea of "monkey mind" thoughts. It is interesting, because I could perceive in this and a later session (from a different "angle") how thoughts arise and go and can derive from emotion.

This is the sort of spontaneous thought that tends to flood your brain when being emotionally aroused. For example when angry, and all this thoughts well up constantly - this is the kind of thought I mean here.

Have you tried seeing where these monkey thoughts come from? My experience with anger was: (from a perfect calm state, I was in a nice meditation session) noise from a door (not conciously registered) + memory -> thought -> physical reaction -> thought -> more physical. etc. until I was aware that "I am angry, why?" and realised how it had all come "out of the blue" meaning no REAL reason for it. Unaware sensory perceptions may trigger a lot of movements in our mind/emotion/physical fields (the body concept sounds too personal, so I´ll call them fields). So you are right, you may tune with one aspect of the manifestation of the process or another. Very interesting. I will try a change of tune in my next meditation session.



I think the "ego voice" is different from that. I perceived that, too.

How do you perceive the ego voice?



Quite the same for me. Part of it is experience for me, and I fill in the blanks with book knowledge. The energy bodies reside in the same space, but each one is bigger. So, like the etheric's edges surround your physical body, your emotional field is even bigger, but also in the same place as the other.

I only have made indirect observations of the emotional and mental bodies. I have felt blockages in them, but have not had very much direct experience with them. Since blockages can overlap over many bodies (a mental issue interwoven with emotional issues slowly impacting your physical health would be an example), they can sometimes be felt indirectly. I'm trying to obtain a more direct way "there", but I have so much basic physical/etheric work to do... *sigh* ;)

But then you do perceive quite clearly the blockages so you do perceive these bodies. Maybe try a slight change in focus? Maybe you too much interested in blockages? (I am ssuming that indirect for u means feeling the blockages)




Neither do I - that's why I said "glimpse". I do not even know what state or body I was in, because all was feeling. Like a 3-dimensional touch extending into space.

It's a work in progress. ;)

Indeed !! That's one of the reasons why we are born in this world :D



On re-reading your original account it may be that you relate a very different experience, it was just so strange to find the same words all over used for my energy work.

Yes, b/c I was trying to get some help to understand these basic units ... Could you tell more about your energy work? The feeling I have is that you focus more on the energy and I am more in the mental process. I never try to feel energy when I meditate, my focus is on bringing more clarity to mind by watching what happens there so I look at phyisical and other movements all as objects of the mind (only they have different manifestations). So there is a mind space that you watch and label anything that appears, whether a sound, a tohught, etc. and make no difference in them.




Well, here it gets a bit tricky. It's hard to say.

I have observed the process of (partially?) resolving a mental blockage (a prejudice), but it was very spontaneous and uncontrolled, I could feel the result in my lower energy bodies. The strong amount of energy that flooded me as result kept me in need of releasing energy for several days - don't know why. It was a very strong experience.

What I mostly work with are physical/etheric blockages. They carry an emotional charge, their release removes body-stored emotions. I have become much calmer, less tense and less often angry since then. It's hard to remember how I was before. ;)

I have still a lot of work left to do before I can continue working on emotional patterns directly. *sigh*

Yes, energy releases ARE very strong when they happen. I am now observing my behaviour and mental processes to detect if things have really changed or it was just a momentary release.

That´s nice if you cannot remember how it was before :D sounds like real work is goign there !!! Good !!!

For me now it feels that the real resolution of blockages is further than the dense bodies ... Somewhere out there in a remote mental space related to "me" that is not exactly "me".

CF told me this thread is going to be moved to "Expanding awareness" forum, so maybe other people join this conversation. I would really like to learn more about your dissolving energy work. I suggested a name for the thread something like "Blockage work on energy bodies" maybe you have a suggestion for the name of thread??

I'm delighted with this forum :D

Have a beautiful day with clarity of mind and joy

Sara.