Using Hemi-Synch Support for Journeys Out of Body with MAP

[guitarguy68]

Does anybody have any ideas on the best way to use the Hemi-Synch Support for Journeys Out of Body CDs from the AD website and PAPI in conjunction with MAP?

[CFTraveler]

If you are doing the PAPI workshop then you are already doing something structured- unless you are talking about doing the CD version of MAP?

[guitarguy68]

I'm working through Mastering Astral Projection, both the 6 CD set and the 90 day book, Astral Dynamics, Foundations of Energy Work, LaBerge's Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming and A Course in Lucid Dreaming, Bardon's Initiation into Hermetics, and Kraig's Modern Magick.

I am at the end of week three of MAP and am currently on CD 3 Meditation from the MAP CD set. I'm reading through Astral Dynamics, I am about to start Chapter 10. I have just finished the "Running Energy Chapter" from Energy Work. I'm in Ch. 3 in Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming and in Unit 1 of the Course in Lucid Dreaming (which uses Exploring as its texbook.) I'm on Step I of Bardon and have finished Chapter 1 of Kraig.

I am working on setting up a single, all-inclusive course that makes use of all the best ideas and practices from all of these books. For instance, I have found that all of these works introduce relaxation methods. However, I have found that Robert Bruce's is the best. So now I use Robert's techniques with LaBerge and Kraig.

However, I have not found a good way to really use the Journeys out of Body CDs, even though they are recommended on the Astral Dynamics website and Robert himself uses them in his PAPI course.

My question, I guess, is when and how should one use them. The instruction booklet that comes with it and the methods in the last couple chapters of the Journeys out of Body book are no where near as detailed as those of Mr. Bruce. I'd like to know if anyone has experience using them and in what manner are they most effective. For instance, I have heard that the mind grows tolerant to a certain preset fairly quickly. In order to introduce more variety into the mix can one substitute Journeys out of Body CDs for certain BWGen presets or for CDs from the MAP CD companion?

I am trying to find where these CDs fit in the puzzle, so to speak. I have found just the right niche for all of these other works but have so far not discovered the right niche for the Journeys Out of Body CDs. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time,
Chris

[Tempestinateapot]

Hi Chris,
Robert Monroe was a pioneer in using binaural beats to create altered states of consciousness. When he wrote his 3 books he was writing mostly about his own personal experiences, rather than a "how-to". At the Monroe Institute, the different programs use CD's that were developed specifically for each different program (basically the different Focus levels). These CD's are not available to buy anywhere. People are encouraged to attend TMI, rather than a more do-it-yourself experience. So, there isn't a lot of how-to information that comes out of TMI. There are a lot of Hemi-Sync CD's on the market, but they are different from the workshops at TMI.

Robert Bruce encourages people to experiment on their own, rather than promoting a physical institute. He shares the things he's learned, much of it free on this website, and has more of a "how-to" approach. That is why his books and CD instructions are much more specific.

I actually use Robert and Brian's new CD set (Mastering Astral Projection), Hemi-Sync, and the BWGen CD that came with MAP. I just mix them up depending on which one seems interesting at the moment. I was having OBE's before I ever heard any CD's, though. But, I don't see why they can't be used in whatever order you want. If you are new to OBE's, it's best to do each of them in the order that they come in their set. The states of consciousness build on each other, becoming deeper with each CD.


I am working on setting up a single, all-inclusive course that makes use of all the best ideas and practices from all of these books. For instance, I have found that all of these works introduce relaxation methods.This is something that could get you in legal trouble. All of these books and CD's are copyrighted. Publishers (and authors) are not happy when they see their info being plagiarized. I am not saying this is what you are doing, but there is a fine line if you intend to have people pay money for a course; even if you are doing it for free. Just a little word of caution.

Something else you might need to know is that all of this information was developed over years and decades of practice, hard work, and trials of application. Robert Bruce and Robert Monroe are/was both experts in the field of altered states of consciousness. From what you've written, it appears that you have very little experience, unless you haven't explained everything. Most of us who have OBE's have been practicing for years, and still don't have as much control as we'd like. Undertaking a "course" and trying to teach something you aren't an expert in isn't very wise, and could land you in a lot of trouble. Some people have had experiences that either have or could have landed them in a mental institution. Both Monroe & Bruce have liability waivers for their workshops for this very reason.

I'm not trying to take the wind out of your sails here. You just seem a bit naive for someone who wants to undertake something as ambitious as you are suggesting. There is not one way to do anything when it comes to consciousness. The more you learn, the more you realize how little you actually know. The amount of experience I've gained in a 2 to 3 year time period is staggering to me, but I feel like an infant. I probably wouldn't undertake teaching a course without at least 10 years under my belt, if even at all. This is just my opinion, but I think you may be biting off more than you can chew. :D I do wish you good luck in your personal exploration of altered states, and there are a lot of people here with experience that can help you out on your journey. Regarding Bardon, we have a member (Aunt Clair) who is an expert, and you can find her in the Mysticism forums.

[guitarguy68]

Sorry, but I've been a bit unclear. When I spoke of a course I meant more of a curriculum or guide that would help me to work through all of these materials in a logical and efficient manner. I certainly don't intend to publish anything or start teaching anything to other people. The only instance in which I might share my guide with others is if I have some friends interested in the same thing and who want a logical way to proceed through all of the works and courses I listed above. In other words, I'm not trying to write my own course, so to speak, more trying to find a good way to work through all of these books and courses simultaneously. For instance, I've found that I can tack on exercises from Kraig and Bardon at the beginning, end and middle of my daily MAP exercises. I use Kraigs journal template for my daily practice sessions. I use Bruce and Mercer's dream journal template for LaBerge's program. Kraig and LaBerge both give instructions for relaxation but I find Bruce's to be the best so I use his.

Instead of spending 30-60 minutes doing MAP, then doing Kraig, then doing Bardon, then doing LaBerge, I eliminate that which is repetative and add practices to the beginning, middle, and end of my daily MAP. This seems to be more efficient and effective than doing each course completely seperately.

It's more of a plan of action than anything else. Its like I'm homeschooling myself and these are the textbooks. In school, one doesn't just willynilly study everything in any order that they want, there is a progressive ladder of theory and practice that one must master.

As far as my experience, you are right. I've had a few lucid dreams, but that's it. That's exactly why I'm beginning to work through all of these books and courses.

[Tempestinateapot]

Wow! You are a lot more disciplined than I am. :shock: I think that you are going to find that on these forums there are people who are really knowledgable about a couple of the systems you are using, but I haven't met anyone who is experienced in all of them. Looks like you'll be the pioneer. :D Let us know how you do. Thanks for clearing up what you are doing.

[guitarguy68]

Really, it's a lot easier than it sounds as there is a great deal of overlap between all of these courses. Bruce, LaBerge, and Kraig all require a dream journal, so I just need one journal and I've fulfilled the requirements of three different courses. Bruce, LaBerge, Kraig, and Bardon all require relaxation exercises, so when I do the MAP relaxation, I fulfill the requirements of 4 courses. There are many other similar overlaps, however, I'm still in the first chapters/units of LaBerge's, Kraig's, and Bardon's work. I'm beginning the fourth week of MAP. I'm reading 3 chapters a week of AD as this will result in completing MAP and AD at approximately the same time. I expect things to get more difficult and complex as time goes by, but I will hopefully be able to deal with that. I always start with MAP as the base exercises then add exercises from the other programs as necessary.

Also, I've been able to answer my own question, the original question of how to use the Journeys out of Body 6CD set by Bob Felix. The relaxation CD works quite nicely in conjunction with daily MAP exercises. The "Condition A" CD seeks to induce the same meditative state as Bardon's second form of meditation. The "Condition B" CD is for both Bardon's third form of meditation and for Bruce's mind clearing meditation.

[CFTraveler]

So you are doing the PAPI workshop, then?

[guitarguy68]

No, I'm not doing PAPI. The only reason I brought up PAPI was to identify the CDs which were created by Bob Felix and are advertised on http://www.astraldynamics.com, recommended by Mr. Bruce, and used in his and Mr. Felix's PAPI program according to the PAPI website. The full name of the 6 CD set is Hemi-sync Support for Journeys out of the Body. There is more information on these CDs on http://www.astraldynamics.com and http://www.glidewing.com.

What I am doing is forming a sort of hybrid course for my own personal use. My method of doing this is as follows: I first studied all of the texts that I want to incorporate into my personal program. I use the 90 (91) day Mastering Astral Projection course as the foundation on which I build everything else. All of the other materials which I am using to build upon this foundation include the following:

By Robert Bruce
Mastering Astral Projection CD Companion
Astral Dynamics
Foundations of Energy Work

By Bob Felix
Hemi-sync Support for Journeys out of the Body

By Dr. Stephen LaBerge/The Lucidity Institute
Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming
A Course in Lucid Dreaming

By Dondald Michael Kraig
Modern Magick

By Franz Bardon
Initiation into Hermetics

By Rawn Clark
abardoncompanion.com

At first I was going to do each course seperately, however, after some study I realized that there was a great deal of overlap and not much contradiction between all of these works. I realized that it would be much more efficient and expedient to assimilate everything from all of these courses simultaneously into my own practice. However, while I am in the fourth week of MAP, I am at the beginning of most of the other courses.

My plan is first to eliminate the overlap that occurrs in these courses. I then add to the MAP daily exercises all of the exercises from these other works that are not the same or nearly the same as those I practice for MAP.

So far my plan daily plan of action has been thus:
Throughout the night and in the morning I record my dreams. This fulfills the instructions of MAP, Modern Magick, and A Course in Lucid Dreaming/Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming. After this I take the dream journal a step further as instructed in the Course in LD and EWLD by finding and listing my "target dreamsigns," a practice expalined in these texts.

I then do my MAP affirmations.

I then brush my body with a natural-bristle brush and take a cold shower as instructed by Bardon. While in the shower I use Bardon's instructions on "The Magic of Water", namely I imagine passing not only physical filth into the water, but also sickness, failures, discontent, unhappiness, nervousness, and all else negative, whether from my physical body, my soul, or my spirit. Once I feel that I am thrice cleaned, I step out of the water and let it run for a second. When I step back in I have charged the water with my wish as instructed by Bardon. As the water runs over my body, I feel the wish becoming part of all three of my bodies and part of my reality as well. I then step out of the water once more. The water has thus far been a cleanser and a fulfiller of wishes. Now the water becomes an energizer. Mr. Bruce recommends taking a cold shower to enhance the feeling of energy movement in the body. So, there are three waters to me: the waters of cleansing, the waters of the wish, and the waters of energy.

After I get out of the shower, I do Bruce's Full Body Circuit and his Breathing Circuit. I then do Bardon's first meditation exercise, "Thought Control," and his conscious breathing exercise, which is also described in Bruce's Foundations of Energy Work.

I now go about my day, doing reality checks as instructed by Bruce and LaBerge.

Either in the afternoon or at night before I go to bed I do MAP, but with additions from the other courses. I start out with relaxation. I then do Bardon's Conscious Breathing and Thought Control. Next, I run through the rest of the daily MAP exercises. I generally use either the BWGen that came with the 90 day MAP book, the proper CD from the MAP 6 CD Companion, or the analogous CD from the Journeys out of the Body 6 CD set. After the MAP exercises I do the Tarot Contemplation from Kraig's Modern Magick and sometimes the Tarot Divination as well. I have now fulfilled requirements from the texts of Bruce, Bardon, LaBerge, and Kraig.

Bruce, LaBerge, Bardon, and Kraig all require relaxation exercises. They all require Dream Journals. They all require meditation. I eliminate the repetition of 4 different dream journals and of 4 different relaxation exercises when all of these requirements can be met in one exercise. Also, at times the meditation that is required is extremely similar or identical to the form of meditation in MAP or the other courses. Therefore, I do one meditation exercise and meet the requirements of several courses.

When I go to bed I say my MAP affirmations and raise some energy, though not too much because I have found that if I raise too much it is impossible to go to sleep.

My goal is to combine all of these courses and tools into one curriculm so that I may learn Lucid Dreaming, Astral Projection, and Magic at once. This does not sound as difficult as it may sound because these three things are intimately related.

Finally, in addition to all of the above, I study the works of the Apostle Paul and Biblical Eschatology. I am also an avid viewer of films, listener of music, especially music from the late 60's and early to mid 70's, and reader of literature, generally from the within the last century but I am open to Lit from all periods.

For more info on the works of Paul, check out the site godinvitesyou.com.

If anyone has recomendations, criticisms, questions, or anything to say, I'd be happy to hear from you.

[CFTraveler]

I think you pretty much have it under control. About the only advice I have is to save the last CDs (from the Hemi Sync support) until you are at the exit technique part of MAP, so that you know what to do if you get exit sensations when listening to them.