Comments on excersises based on NEW and MBA

[danielnieuwoudt]

Hi Guys/Gals

I decided that I would like to invite comments on the experiences that I am having using NEW and MBA as made available by Robert Bruce both in terms of his online resources and his book Astral Dynamics.

I am trying to gather as much info and experience on these two topics as possible as I feel that it is really effective as well as capable of provding me with the right type of grounding to explore successful and controlled OBE's.

The major two experiences are 6 days apart. I gennerally spend about 30min on week days doing minor energy work as I am genarlly too tired to concetrate fully on the tasks due to work pressure. On weekends I try to take a nap so that I feel refreshed when I go to bed at around 10pm (Have two little girls so it does not really leave me with much practise time during daylight hours :-).

Please feel free to comment on the two practise sessions below:

Note: At the end of the session I bring my self out of the relaxed state and jot down the experience on the PC so it might be a bit confusing at times (Think it has to do with the mind split effect as recalling the event is sometimes difficult even coming only out on a lite to deep trance)

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Relaxation Session (3rd June 2007 -> 22:00 to 00:00)
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On Third attempt went through process to relax whole body. Did foot work. Brush action up and down and also managed to focus on sweep action across toes. Did energy loops over skin of feet and lower legs up to knees. Not feeling strong sensations in upper legs but do feel sensations. Felt strong heat sensations in feet and toes. Hands and arm also very active and for the first time felt my head also being very active (Tingling and buzzing). Felt heat sensations in middle of back. Most of this was in a relaxed state but not deep relaxation.

Found myself drifting away with imaginary trend about nonsense but managed to recover several times floating in and out on consciousness. Every time I regained consciousness, became aware of energy body mostly focused around head, throat, chest and arms. Also in legs (Not strong feeling) and feet but not stomach region (maybe too much food).

When consciousness regained, experienced very strong hearing ability. A/C sounded like rushing waterfall as air came out of vent. Also notice my breathing was very loud. A/C sound was quite intimidating at first but once identified was nice to play with. Focus on a sound increases intensity of hearing greatly as if amplified. Only hear one sound at a time as oppose to many like under normal waking conditions.

Focused sounds on A/C (Crashing Waterfall)
Hearing Energy (Sounds like buzzing)

Felt deep relaxation symptoms coming on (tickling across head and face), but was unable to achieve deep trace due to movement. Attempted and experienced twice. Also tried falling action by sinking into bed which caused heavy pressure sensations on the body.

When failed second time, decided to bounce awareness between hands. Caused strong energy sensations in whole body. Played with hands and arms in terms on energy body movement. Tried to stretch arms to touch bottom of bed. Felt right arm extend (a bit weird, felt like right arm was longer than left arm). Tried to stretch body like elastic band. Manage to perceive some stretch. Think I did too little energy raising as stretch felt very thin.

Started bounce from head to toe but started feel I was losing focus and concentration. Woke up.
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Relaxation Session (9th June 2007 -> 22:00 to 00:00)
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Started with normal relaxation of body. Started energy work on feet and lower legs. String enery sensations in both legs. Moved energy to hips and torso using MBA. Started energy work on hands, arms and eventually entire body. Felt sensations of chakras activation? (base - warm feeling at base of spine, naval - stomach sort of rumbling as if hungry. Also feels like wind/bubbles in stomach) as I moved energy along spine from base to crown.

Had prickling sensation in right foot. Moved energy from crown to right foot a couple of times, prickling feeling stopped. Had prickling feeling in right hand and moved energy to right hand a couple of time and prickling feeling stopped. (Not sure what prickling feeling is but stops when energy is directed to the spesific area)


Started falling sensation which I could feel had immediate effect on level of trace state. Attempted to only induce falling feeling until I felt sensations of energy body expanding. Had strong expansion feelings in legs, arms, head, torso (sensations include pins and needle like feeling, becoming aware of pressure on part of body affected and sensation of lightness). Started bouncing action between hands through body. This caused strong chakra activation feelings in naval, throat and brow (heavy feeling on left temple )

Had sort of a neck spasm which felt like it jolted my neck from left to right with a associated ringing sound which woke me up immediately. Felt wide awake but still quite relaxed. Decided to get up have something to drink.

Currently feeling a little disconnected from reality. Lots of energy sensations in body. Warm feeling on skin and brow chakra. Skin around forehead feels desensitized and numb.
=============================================

Regards
Daniel

[CFTraveler]

The sounds you reported both times sound like astral noise- which tells me you were very close to separation- indeed from your report it seems to me you had a very short partial separation on the first reported session. I believe you were in deeper trance than what you thought you were. That is very good.

[danielnieuwoudt]

Hi CFTraveler

Thank you for the response and encouragement. Can you maybe eloborate on Korpo's and VioletSy's comments regarding grounding?

- What is "Grounding"?
- Why is it important?
- How does it affect the energy body / chakra system?
- How is it achieved or managed?
- Any do's or dont's for a novice?

As you can see :-) lots and lots of questions.

Regards
Daniel

[Korpo]

As you develop your energy body it is often tempting to go for "the higher energies" and for "insights" and whatever. It is also tempting to go for energy phenomena that feel stronger and so on. The human tendency for the "big thing" is alive and kicking in energy body development as in every other discipline, and can be as damaging.

When people become "ungrounded", they especially feel a strange kind of detachment - dissociation. A feeling of not belonging here, not to this body, you no longer recognise yourself in the mirror or have spontaneous trance episodes and uncontrollable energetic phenomena. Generally speaking you are at the same time out of control and out of touch with your basic, "down-to-earth" humanity.

While some welcome this state, and while some can deal with such episodes, it is usually not the way to go for long-term development of the energy body or yourself.

Grounding techniques center you in the body again, they bring you back to the "here and now", anchor your mind in your physical human being and help rebalance your energy system by moving excess or agitated energies into the Earth. This "grounds" the energy, reducing agitation and allowing for calmness and healing.

The most vital and healthy system is not the one with the most energy in it, but where the best balance exists. Energy raising is not the exact opposite of grounding, but it can be overdone. Grounding excess and growing your capacity according to what you can safely deal with are the ways to go for long-term development in safety.

I personally do not even raise energy. Instead I resolve the energetic conflicts arising and manifesting in blockages. The human energy system already can deal with much more energies, receive, use and release them, but blockages prevent that. Instead of trying to put more energy into it, I simply make the room for more energy and had good results as well.

Since releasing a blockage releases energy as well - agitated, coarse and surely not neutral energy that the original conflict was made of after the energy stagnated and "froze" - I neutralise and ground that energy as well, and good neutralising and grounding skills make the difference for my method. Bad grounding means the energy upsets your system, old emotions and stresses again imbalance your system. But if I release the energy properly, the conflict can be resolved to a good degree, healing start and the blockage stays gone.

And that is why you ground. :D

Oliver

[danielnieuwoudt]

Hi Oliver

Thanks for the reply. Makes a lot of sense and in many ways should be applied to all aspects of life.


Regards
Daniel

[CFTraveler]

Just to elaborate on what Korpo said, I just wanted to add that most 'higher energy' work involve the upper (brow/crown) chakras and grounding involves the base chakra, the one involved in survival issues (eating, drinking, etc.)- so grounding can go from doing 'life affirming' actions (like eating a high- protein meal, working (manual labor is the most 'grounding', but anything that insures an adequate living is 'grounding'. (Taking a walk in nature, being kind to animals) is another way of grounding. I think you get the picture- anything to do with being in the physical in harmony with it. (And like anything else, balance is everything- being too grounded would turn you into someone obsessed with survival to the exclusion of everything else (ulcers, stress, and so on.)
In past times and in non-industrialized countries, being too grounded would have been common, but in modern industrialized countries, where work is almost dissasociated with survival (well not really, but in the collective psyche, people work for things other than survival, and in abstract-type occupations) it is easier to go the other way- to be too intellectual, too philosophical, or too 'fluffy'. That's another reason to be wary of overstimulating the higher chakras.
Of course grounding, besides the way I described above, can be done by base chakra meditations & energy work.
That's it- I promise I'm done. :wink:

[danielnieuwoudt]

Hi Korpo/CFTraveler

The last couple of days has been rather interesting to say the least. Did some reading regardings negs and core image removal which I found ineteresting but realized that one should it no way feel overwhelmed/intimidated by new info (knowledge is power however).

Anyway ... I guess I decided to post again as your previous input has been very valuable and I feel balanaced in all respect of life (career, family, hobbies) and progressively more in experimenting with Enery work.

I need some confirmations though as I have taken the following approach with regards to enery work this week and it has yielded some interesting results:

Approach:

1. Short relaxion session initialy focusing on every major body limb ensuring that it is totally relaxed (feet, ankles, shins, calfs, knees, upper legs and hips etc)
2. Once complete, stating the following affirmation (makes me feel more comfortable and confident and comes from sections of RM's and RB's work) "I am more than my body. I will perceive and remeber all that I encouter during this relaxation session. I will retain that which is beneficial to my phycical, enery and mental bodies.(The reason why I mention this is that I think it has been quite a value add to expanding my awareness of both the effect of enery work on my physical and enery bodies - for some or other reason I think this sounds strange but I will go with it)
3. I then do enerygy work on my entire body and have somehow decided that I find this very relaxing and that it assists me in reaching a much deeper level of relaxion. The interesting thing though is that I have become aware of enery activity in the following parts of the body which I have not really noticed before: both areas on side of the body just under to the rib cage, spinning enery balls above palms of hands (about the size of a tennis ball above the palm of each hand), jaw, tongue and mouth in general, right side of chest (in line with heart but opposite side of body)
4. I then experiment with diffirent ways of trying to deepen the trans and discovered that visulising walking down a winding stair case has a rather profound effect (Causes localised pressure on my left temple - the pressure is not severe and does not case pain or discomfort but was quite intimidating at first - why I thought it is intimidating I do not know).

The following things happen from this point onwards which is actually what I wanted to discuss but seems that I took the long road getting here feeling that background might add some value :-)

I am not sure how to phrase all of this in proper english so bear with me:

1. I become aware of my enegy body (or other body) and spesifically notice floating sensations with regards to my hands, arms, head and legs. I have also realised that thought seems to have a tendancy to be able to change the position of these hands and arms (for example ... my hands are generally facing palms down on the bed. If I start feeling that they turn vertical, then moments later I become aware that they are now vertical instead of flat.) I have been experimenting with this a bit and noticed that movement is slow and tedious and one has to put alot of thought into getting them to change position.
2. Being in this state and focusing on the energy body causes a audible "droning" sound that I would assume based on CFTraveler's earlier comments would be "Astral Noise"? I have learned not to be intimidated by this sounds as it get rather loud intially.
3. This morning, a couple of minutes (feels like minutes) after experimenting in this state i felt a enery burst of sorts (this has happend twice earlier this week) and then become aware that the hands and arms feeling more nimble and respond must quicker to thought. Previously I was startled by the burst but managed to keep myself calm and relaxed this morning. This sensation lasted for about a minute after which I woke up and reflected for a while.

Some obeservations

1. The "mind split" seems to have a affect even in both light and deep trance state because if I fall asleep immediately afterwards, memories of these events are difficult to recall. It is easier to wakeup completely go through the sequence of events. Relax and then go to sleep (have not had problems sleeping after these session ... in fact ... been sleeping like baby :-)
2. For some reason, attempting to progressively transfer/focusing the mind/conciosness on the energy body (if thats makes any sense) triggers what I would consider a OBE.

Anyway ... hope you guys have a great day as mine started off just dandy!

Regards
Daniel

[danielnieuwoudt]

Me again. Just though I would add the other observations as they surface and clarify by what I mean when I say "Mind Spit" and "Energy Body"

1. When I become aware of my energy body (I use this as a loose term as I am trying to grasp the differences between my energy and astral bodies) it has a affect where you become aware that you have more than ONE body. You can feel distinct sensations that you have a duplicate set of limbs (if one can call it that). What I mean by this is:

(a) I can feel my physical hands and arms on the bed which are heavy and tingling.
(b) At the same time I am "aware" of another set of hands and arms that respond to thought although this response takes alot of thought and manifestation of the thought happens in a delayed fashion ie. Think of changing the position of the hands and then later becoming aware that the change has occured. The delay however is maybe due to not understanding the process exactly.

2. The OBE trigger when focusing on the energy body may be due to the fact that I am trying to shift awareness outside of my physical body as I perceive the energy body to be part of the physical body yet either expanded or separting. By this I mean that I can feel my head (face) lifting away from my physical face. I am not sure however whether this is the enery body or astral body. (Very confusing in some respects because you know what you are aware of/feel but difficult to explain in writing)

Kindest Regards
Daniel

[CFTraveler]

I am not sure however whether this is the enery body or astral body. Yes, it is the astral (energy) body. Awareness is the first step to a succesful separation.

[danielnieuwoudt]

Hi CFTraveler

OK. From your statement I would conclude that the enery body = astral body. Are they different subtle bodies or the same subtle body as the impression that I am getting (maybe incorrect) that they are different subtle bodies.

Basically what I am trying to figure out is what is the process of generaton and which bodies are involved:

ie. Physical => Enmeshed Energy Body which generates => Astral Body?

Regards
Daniel

[CFTraveler]

There are tons of definitions for what happens and how it happens. My favorite definition (or rather, the way I look at it) is a bit different to some established ways of seeing it.
There is the distinction of what body we use to go where, and categories to illustrate them: Body->etheric->astral and it goes up in definition all the way to mental, corresponding to the reported planes or locales.
There is Robert's definition: The physical body, utilizing the chakras, generates or rather projects the energy body, which would be a subtle body, and it goes to the RTZ and the astral, and so on. In this definition (which I like very much) the energy body 'is the energy body', in other words, it is what it is, and it can vary in vibration to be closer to the RTZ or etheric (lower) or up to the astral, adjusting it's frequency to wherever you are able to go. So it's really the same body- it does what you're able to make it do depending on your focus, intention, and ability.
The way I see it is as thus (possibly the same way Robert sees it, but explained differently):
We exist simultaneously in all possible existence- From the ultra-abstract mental plane to the slow material plane, and even lower whatever exists that we don't the capacity to comprehend yet. What is now in the 'material' plane as we think we know it is our conscious focus- All the degrees of subtlety of our body all the way to nonlocality or supralocality are degrees that span the total of what we are. When we do energy work, and all the introspective and meditative work, we are training our conscious mind to connect to our energy body, what we are doing is projecting our consciousness into this energy body we already have and bringing our awareness to the realm it inhabits. We strengthen the energy body by doing the work, but we also establish a conscious connection to it- we are always connected to it, but we are not necessarily conscious of it or are able to manipulate it, and this is what we do when we project. But of course, this is my opinion.

[danielnieuwoudt]

Hi CFTraveler

I think that puts things into perspective. The analogy is then that we have a physical body and we "tune" our enery body into diffirent energetic frequencies depending on which plane/dimension we want to project to.

The ability to "tune" into these frequencies is done by using the chakras system to refine raw energy into the lower/higher frequencies.

As before, I appreciate the time you took to reply.

Thanks a mil
Daniel

[CFTraveler]

Ha ha you said it better than me. :lol:

[danielnieuwoudt]

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Relaxation Session (16th June 2007 -> 22:00 to 23:43)
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1. Normal Relaxation Procedure
2. Affirmation
3. Energy Raising in from feet to hips and vertically up spine to crown
4. Various attempts to deepen trace state using different methods of visualization.

After reaching deep level of relaxation became aware of energy body hands and arms. Breathing awareness very effective to expand awareness to more part of the energy body by visualizing air flowing through the nose right down to the toes (air was visualized as pure white energy and where ever it flowed caused tingling sensations/feelings). Experimented with different methods of focusing awareness on various part of the energy body to attempt to reproduce sensations/awareness in hands and arms as these are generally achieved/perceived first. Found that focusing awareness on various parts does have effect and provides similar sensations/feelings but not as strong as hands and arms. Takes a lot of concentration to keep surface mind clear which allows for much more deeper and more controlled though/visualization.

Using deeper level of though/visualization (clearer level) in conjunction with energy body has interesting effects as one becomes aware/feels expansion, lightness and position changes.

Had what I would think is a core image (nasty image –but for the life of me cannot recall what it was . . . ) which I attacked (shocked, hit and torched). Sucked up the remains (ashes) in a imaginary vacuum device which I tossed into space. The effect was a jolt in left arm of the energy body. After effect was intense buzzing and tingling in left arm with a very light and free sensation/awareness.

Note: Interesting thing though is that I am right handed.

This put a smile on my face and strangely felt that more than one face smiled as this felt like a achievement. Decided to wake up and recap the events before forgotten.

Regards
Daniel

[star]

Daniel, your posts are really interesting I look forward to more.

- James

[danielnieuwoudt]

Thanks Star, appreciate the encouragement and will do.

Two interesting notes:

1. Ability to see sound: Has anyone experienced that before? Almost as if sharp sounds causes a ripple in the energy body which is visible in the minds eye.

2. Sounds becoming lounder whe focused on: However, think this was a result of being able to keep the surface mind fairly clear which allowed me to more distinctly focus on the sounds that I was experimenting with.

Regards
Daniel

[danielnieuwoudt]

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Relaxation Session (17th June 2007 -> 22:00 to …)
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1. Normal Relaxation Procedure
2. Affirmation
3. Only “watchful” meditation

Decided to experiment with a different approach based on the theory that every one projects during the course the normal sleep process. Decided to watch the process of falling asleep from a third persons perspective and not attempt to interfere. Found that I very quickly achieved a state where I became aware of my astral hands and arms. Also became aware that my legs and feet were loosening/expanding. Remained in this state for a while and attempted to continue observing.

Started with what would probably be lucid dreaming a decided to let myself go with this as I took a very laid back approach tonight. Rolled over and lay on my side which brought me back to a aware state. Started drifting off again when I decided to turn over to my stomach which again brought me to a aware state … surprise, surprise …

Became aware that my arm were hanging through the mattress of the bed and were not where I expected them to be ie. tucked under the pillow (this is how I normally sleep on my stomach) . For a split second became aware that my physical body was still lying on its side which has a profound effect on my mind creating a immediate falling sensation (Felt like my stomach was literally being turned upside down – similar feeling when leaving a airplane while skydiving). Felt like I was falling through the bed mattress with my arms and upper body. Everything was dark. Became aware immediately that it felt my hips were stuck and could not pass through the bed. I tried to take control and force the falling effect which did not succeed.

Note: When the falling sensation started and during the course of the process feeling stuck there was a wavy sounds being heard. Could also hear and feel my heart chakra pounding away at different tempos.

Woke up with buzzing sensation all over my body and decided not to get up and continue experimenting.

Regards
Daniel

[ShatteredSoul]

Hey Daniel, It sounds like you are doing great. Just a thought but it is recommended that when you attempt to project you do it from a light trance rather than a deep one. I just noticed from your logs that you are going pretty deep.

Of course everyone is different and you should do what works best for you. Perhaps its an idea that you could play with though. :o

[danielnieuwoudt]

Hi ShatteredSould

Firstly, thank you for the time you have taken to read the logs and post. I have PM'ed you a couple of questions and would appreciate you feedback on these.

Regards
Daniel

[CFTraveler]

Shattered Soul wrote:
Hey Daniel, It sounds like you are doing great. Just a thought but it is recommended that when you attempt to project you do it from a light trance rather than a deep one. I just noticed from your logs that you are going pretty deep. Even though it is not the same for everyone, I beg to disagree. Most people need to be in the 'body asleep' mind awake state to project, and a light trance has more possibilities of moving the physical body and aborting the projection reflex, especially if the projector is inexperienced. And of course the type of projection desired makes a diff. too.; If you're RVing it doesn't have to be a deep trance, and if you're a seasoned projector, you get used to bilocation and can pretty much control your physical body to not allow it to get in the way of obtaining information from your projected copy.
But in general terms, if you're not paralyzed, or close enough to be experiencing astral sight, sounds and sometimes strong energy effects, you're not deep enough to successfully separate and remember to talk about it.
Of course this is just my observation based on my experiences- many phasers have no problem doing it from a light trance, and some projectors in the past reported doing it while walking-But I know I'm not that talented. :wink:

[ShatteredSoul]

thank you cft for that addition. perhaps i should have phrased it differently. I prefer a light to medium and I believe that it makes the matter of recall much easier. so I was just putting that idea on the table :)

[CFTraveler]

You're probably very good at it. :lol:

[ShatteredSoul]

edit: Id like to just add this exerp from a some writing I did earlier just to clarify my reasoning:

A light/medium trance is best for the previously mention recall and to avoid body disassociation. As you get deeper and deeper into a trance you begin to disassociated more with the feelings of your body. An example of this is that when I start getting really deep in a trance my hands begin to feel like nondescript lumps of fuzz. I cannot tell which way they are lying, palm up or palm down. This clearly can be quite a problem when trying to create a double of yourself as the sensations of what are happening in your energetic body can become muddled in this deep level of trance due to an inability to direct awareness appropriately through a body part which you now have difficulty feeling. I like to get to a level of trance where my breathing is nice and deep and my hands and feet are starting to feel a little warm and fuzzy but are still distinct and I can still isolate the sensations of individual toes and fingers with my awareness. this is accompanied with a definite sense of heaviness but still somewhat close to the surface. If someone were to walk through the door I would be able to snap my self out of it. Perhaps it would take me a little to reorient but it wouldn't be as though I was waking from a nap. This also avoids disassociation from your environment which would also make things difficult when it comes to getting a tactile sense of action such as pulling on a rope that is hanging from the environment in relation to your body, or rolling or sinking through your environment ect.

again this is just my experience of it and I have also had full dual consciousness splits when fully awake with no trance present at all. Those ones were spontaneous triggers mind you.

Anyways I hope that clarifies some of what I was trying to say

[CFTraveler]

Sure.
Have you ever done NEW in trance? It helps with the dissassociation, or maybe it doesn't, it helps with association of the energy body. If not, I highly recommend it.

[ShatteredSoul]

yes I'm speaking in terms of NEW. For me in my experience though its very hard to work in a tactile way if you cannot first feel the body parts you need to stimulate. I suppose if you were to do energy raising first that might lessen dissociation but my experience is deeper trance=greater dissociation. Also the sequencing I usually follow is relaxation (maybe a yoga routine) of physical, breath work and trance and then relevant energy work. unless I am working towards a different end in which case my exercises will adjust accordingly. anyways have a good one! :o

[CFTraveler]

Yes, but I wasn't speaking of doing NEW and going into trance, but going into trance and then doing NEW. Maybe I'm different :) but if I go into trance and do NEW the sensations are extremely strong- so strong that I can almost see the movements in an almost clairvoyant sense.

[ShatteredSoul]

Yes I go into trance before doing energy work as well. Unless I have a different goal in mind. I said in the last post that I feel it is difficult to create a tactile sense in a body part that is overly disassociated which is why I believe it is important not to put yourself too deep. However I also stated that perhaps if you did energy work first it might lessen the disassociation of a really deep trance though I don't think it would do as much for your environmental awareness and the disassociation that happens there which is relevant to environment related techniques.

In any case I'm not going to go on as I feel I have hijacked Daniel's thread that he was using for feed back and personal contemplation. For that I would like to apologies. Sorry Daniel.

warm regards

[CFTraveler]

Me too. Sorry Daniel.

[danielnieuwoudt]

Hi Guys/Gals

This is exactly the type of feedback that I hoped the thread would create as I believe the comments made are invaluable to novice and experienced people who is starting NEW and Trance work.

Regards
Daniel