demons

[chips]

I myself think demons were created by us. i think that whoever first wrote about demons in the bible is the one who first created a demonic looking thought form, and from there, other people who believed in the bible added their own energy into it, and strengthened the demons. i think that the perfect way to destroy a demon would be to first make sure you know what demon you're dealing with (the name) and then do research, and find out if anyone in the bible had banished it, and try using their technique. try to find key weak spots. every demon is different, since with each demon there's a different story. what do you think?

I edited and added one more option (all or none of the above) because I couldn't see the results unless I clicked on 'view results' and that was getting on my nerves.- CF.

[blacktiger057]

I think that the term demon is very broad. Demon, the word, is basically associated with any negative spirit. I do not pretend to know where demons came from, but people can believe what they want to. I personally think that demons are a combination of all the things listed above. Who says that there is only one type? Just like there is more than one kind of happiness and love, the same thing goes for hate and jealousy.

That's my insight!

Scott

[chips]

I think that the term demon is very broad. Demon, the word, is basically associated with any negative spirit. I do not pretend to know where demons came from, but people can believe what they want to. I personally think that demons are a combination of all the things listed above. Who says that there is only one type? Just like there is more than one kind of happiness and love, the same thing goes for hate and jealousy.

That's my insight!

Scott
yup, thats what i think too. i think that anything, or any being, that anyone believes in is real in some way inter-dimensionally.

[blacktiger057]

I'm not sure I really believe this, but God made angels. Some of the angels turned away from him and fell from grace. These angels, now refered to as demons, spawned more demons and infected the world with evilness because Adam and Eve ate an apple....I really don't think the Adam and Eve story is really true, though.

That is just another theory on how demons were created. The problem with that is if God is omnipresent(existing in the past, present, and future, like his love) then He would nevre have made the angels that had fallen from grace.

[chips]

I'm not sure I really believe this, but God made angels. Some of the angels turned away from him and fell from grace. These angels, now refered to as demons, spawned more demons and infected the world with evilness because Adam and Eve ate an apple....I really don't think the Adam and Eve story is really true, though.

That is just another theory on how demons were created. The problem with that is if God is omnipresent(existing in the past, present, and future, like his love) then He would nevre have made the angels that had fallen from grace.
i have many problems believing thet bible. and thats why i am what some people would call "agnostic." how can God,create angels that turn their back on him? why would he even give them the ability to do so? i "do" believe in angelic type entities, but not exactly the way the bible describes them. i do believe that we all percieve them differently though. i think angels might also be thought forms.

[Tom]

If you don't like the Bible, there are other texts you can choose to read. There are even the books which were excluded from the Bible which might be more to your liking. It is perfectly understandable to say something is bad or wrong when what you really mean is that you prefer to support something else, but it is better to leave your options open because you may change your mind later. You can move on without having you be actively against anything else.

[boris]

i think it is possible to harbour and transmitt positive and negative energy, in any given day, here on earth we may be angry, irritable, sad etc and we may also be joyous, forgiving, understanding etc, and thats just normal. but i think things are more polarised in higher realms, so one either passes into the light or the dark depending on their own choices and thoughts.

so a demon is just an entity that has progressively harboured negative energy, and this has 'snowballed' over time to a fixed, one track view of malevolent intentions, which it inflicts upon human kind from its higher (dimensionally speaking) vantage point.

thanks what i think.

[blacktiger057]

One of the ways demons can form is the meer thought of hatred towards somebody. You are sending your hatred out to the person, hoping that something bad will happen to them. That is why people who DO know this are so careful about what they think and say.

[Korpo]

If I follow Robert's explanations correctly, such sending out might trigger an indirect psychic attack, with either a thoughtform attacking the person, or a neg "doing the job" and demanding a price. There is an episode about this in "Practical Psychical Self-Defense" about I guess a witch cursing someone and incurring double damage to herself this way.

I don't think an entity as a real demon is created "just like that". If I again follow correctly Robert these are ancient entities, they did not just "pop up" for the occasion.

Oliver

[blacktiger057]

Well, what you sow is what you reap. As Oliver said, the negative energy can attract actual demons. I think that negative energy and demons are two different beings entirely. So while it is nice and easy to use the term neg, it was a demon that was attacking. So you can send out negs to anybody, but demons are a different matter...

[CFTraveler]

Too bad there is no 'all of the above'.
I believe that God made everything, and is continually making everything, creating by extension. We are God's expression, and have creative potentiality as God gave/gives it to us. Therefore, demons, as we think of them (I don't want to get into etymology and all of that) are beings with an extraordinary capacity to test us and to force us to evolve. Do we create them? Maybe we cocreate them- in a collective sense.
MO, of course.

[chips]

One of the ways demons can form is the meer thought of hatred towards somebody. You are sending your hatred out to the person, hoping that something bad will happen to them. That is why people who DO know this are so careful about what they think and say. i dont think a demon can form just because you feel great hatred towards someone... the negative energy might possibly attract a demon but i doubt it would form into one... on the other hand if you were feeling great hate against someone and you visualize a demon, then you have just created a thought form that will attack your enemy/victim.. for a thought form to be born, i think it needs to be visualized upon, it needs a structure, just like construction workers use blue prints first and then build buildings, you need to have a certain structure in mind and then start filling it with energy

[chips]

If you don't like the Bible, there are other texts you can choose to read. There are even the books which were excluded from the Bible which might be more to your liking. It is perfectly understandable to say something is bad or wrong when what you really mean is that you prefer to support something else, but it is better to leave your options open because you may change your mind later. You can move on without having you be actively against anything else.
i believe in spirituality and different dimensions etc. but i believe that to find out about "true" spirituality, you have to look within yourself, and not an external source, but thats just my opinion.

[Tom]

If you don't like the Bible, there are other texts you can choose to read. There are even the books which were excluded from the Bible which might be more to your liking. It is perfectly understandable to say something is bad or wrong when what you really mean is that you prefer to support something else, but it is better to leave your options open because you may change your mind later. You can move on without having you be actively against anything else.
i believe in spirituality and different dimensions etc. but i believe that to find out about "true" spirituality, you have to look within yourself, and not an external source, but thats just my opinion.

And again I say that you don't have to make everyone else wrong. You just have to acknowledge that you made a different choice and that it is working for you.

[blacktiger057]

I later posted that negs and demons arent the same, chips. You can send someone a neg, but not a demon. Just to clarify

[chips]

If you don't like the Bible, there are other texts you can choose to read. There are even the books which were excluded from the Bible which might be more to your liking. It is perfectly understandable to say something is bad or wrong when what you really mean is that you prefer to support something else, but it is better to leave your options open because you may change your mind later. You can move on without having you be actively against anything else.
i believe in spirituality and different dimensions etc. but i believe that to find out about "true" spirituality, you have to look within yourself, and not an external source, but thats just my opinion.

And again I say that you don't have to make everyone else wrong. You just have to acknowledge that you made a different choice and that it is working for you.
if you read carefully, i NEVER said that everything else is wrong. that's why i stated that it was MY "opinion."

[chips]

I later posted that negs and demons arent the same, chips. You can send someone a neg, but not a demon. Just to clarify
oh, i see that now :D

[chips]

If you don't like the Bible, there are other texts you can choose to read. There are even the books which were excluded from the Bible which might be more to your liking. It is perfectly understandable to say something is bad or wrong when what you really mean is that you prefer to support something else, but it is better to leave your options open because you may change your mind later. You can move on without having you be actively against anything else.
and again, i never used the word's "bad" or "wrong"

[chips]

I later posted that negs and demons arent the same, chips. You can send someone a neg, but not a demon. Just to clarify
oh, i see that now :D
oh wait, why cant u "send" a demon to someone? a demon would fall under the catagory of a neg since its an astral entity that causes harm. arent there rituals that are meant to send demons to other people?

[CFTraveler]

even though anything that is detrimental to our health is considered 'neg', many people in this community tend to categorize negs as 'astral wildlife', not 'demonic entities', which, like angels, are of a higher order, and not necessarily dealt with in the same way (or at all).
Tom-aye-toes
Tom-ah-toes.

I tend to do it, not because of a belief system, but for convenience. But I can see how it would be confusing.

[chips]

im surprised more people arent voting

[blacktiger057]

O yes, it is possible to send demons. Negs are way easier to send though....depends on definnition. Negs are everything negative, and that includes thoughts. SO you can send some negs, but not all types. And only idiots or satanists :evil: send demons. Unfortunately, it is very possible. SO everyone has sent a neg....don't tell me you never thought anything bad? :wink:

[Zandria]

I have a demon co-worker...can't the person doing all of the hating be a demon himself? or would that make him the devil?

[CFTraveler]

I used to have a 'demon coworker'- How I took care of the problem was to place a mirror strategically to reflect the negative intent back, and shielding. I also sent him many blessings and prayed that he would get a better life. In about a month he got offered another job and he was out of my life for good.

[Tom]

Sending a demon is like taking a bear for a walk by putting a leash around its neck. It isn't that you can't do it, because you can as long as the demon feels like playing along.

[Spectral Dragon]

I have a little thread on this topic based on my experiences here: http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewto ... y+creation (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=4803&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=negative+entity+creation)

The basic Giest of it is: demons are a complicated subject which don't have an easy answer to much of anything. Some seem to me to be created by us (these are usually called egregores (http://www.gatesofmysticism.net/wiki/index.php?title=Egregore)
Some seem to have been around much longer than mankind has been around, and some, such as Arch demons (which are debatably more like acid in that they aren't evil they just can't be touched directly,) make up the very fabric of our beings.

Experience tells me that these things can't really be classified easily and that each one is usually unique, with the exception of negs which I don't consider actual demons myself.

[wozyh]

i too think that "demons" started off as normal beings. but for what ever reason just ended up going down a negative path.

a path that they have continously gone down for a very long time (hypothetically for maybe something like a thousand human years). this is incredibly far away and seperated from the original natural true state. the state that we all ended up going back to. which is the realisation of the illusion of seperation and the remembering of what we really are.

the best thing about "Life" is rembering what you are. and you can only remember yourself when you can observe "what you are not". so to compare one against the other so to speak.

and in our world "what we are" and "what we are not" both exist simultaneously. and the "demon" state is an extreme example of what we are not. but it is a possibility and because it is a possibility it will always happen "here".

people on this forum could have been demons many past lifes ago and eventually chose another experience and onto a different path.

in anutshell demons are just a natural product of the realm we live in.

[CFTraveler]

wozyh wrote:
in our world "what we are" and "what we are not" both exist simultaneously. and the "demon" state is an extreme example of what we are not. but it is a possibility and because it is a possibility it will always happen "here". Interesting. Will have to give it more thought.

[Tom]

I heard a short joke / story a while back and there are a lot of different variations out there on it. Maybe someone knows in more detail. God and Satan were out walking one day when God suddenly picks something up and looks at it intently. Satan asks, what is that? God answers that it is Truth, and that it is very precious, and yet most people would just walk right by without noticing or recognizing it for what it is. Satan says, that's great - give it over here to me and I'll organize it for you.

[wozyh]

well "satan" doesnt actually exist

[blacktiger057]

and in our world "what we are" and "what we are not" both exist simultaneously. and the "demon" state is an extreme example of what we are not. but it is a possibility and because it is a possibility it will always happen "here".

people on this forum could have been demons many past lifes ago and eventually chose another experience and onto a different path.



The what we are and what we are not thing is more of an individual thing. Some people can be dark and murderous, while others are of the light and loving. Some people do act like demons, but no human can be one.

Demons are not of our soul. A human, angel, and demon souls are very different. Although I don't think that we can be incarnated as demons, since they have no flesh and can't really die at all, it could be like just as everyone has God in them, some have been 'infected' with the presence of fallen angels. Thus, possession.

[Tom]

well "satan" doesnt actually exist

What I was hoping for was more along the lines of a reference to look up the story or a more complete version, if someone happens to remember it. Maybe you could tell me why you thought that I might think the story literally true?

[Teyla]

none of the above.
Demons came about from the former angels turning to fallen angels,and those beings who follow the fallen angels are demons who were not demons at one time, so through the very evil actions they do thier energy becomes demonic. The evil things they like to do and want to do is what makes them demons.
demons can also breed,so that is another way they can be created that i know of.

Demons can be purified ,and then they are no longer demons.

Also other beings can be tunrned into demons through various ways.
say if a succubi has sex with a human, and that person does no good to counter the taint of the succubi then that person's energy is lowered to the same level as that of a demon.

Succubi like any other demon can also be purified,so they are no longer a type of demon. Instead their energy is raised through purification,and the appearance changes,so thay look human or what ever non-demon form that pleases them to look like after purification.

[DXi]

well "satan" doesnt actually exist

Yes, he does.

Only he doesn't want anyone to know it. If one remains ignorant and in denial of him and his demonic hierarchy, then they can exert power over the individual without them understanding it. It's perfect for the proliferation of evil.

There are many Scriptural texts that reveal him and his works, including but not limited to, the Bible.

When one encounters pure spiritual evil, they can no longer deny the reality of Satan and satanic powers , unless they are truly blind and ignorant. Hopefully, this will bring them to an understanding of the Plan of Salvation, and an intimate relationship with God.

[CFTraveler]

well "satan" doesnt actually exist

Yes, he does.

Only he doesn't want anyone to know it. If one remains ignorant and in denial of him and his demonic hierarchy, then they can exert power over the individual without them understanding it. It's perfect for the proliferation of evil.

There are many Scriptural texts that reveal him and his works, including but not limited to, the Bible.

When one encounters pure spiritual evil, they can no longer deny the reality of Satan and satanic powers , unless they are truly blind and ignorant. Hopefully, this will bring them to an understanding of the Plan of Salvation, and an intimate relationship with God. The only problem I have with this statement is that one person's idea of satan may not be another person's idea of satan- so that what we are talking here is religious belief and speculation of what the reason is for demonic entities' existence.
There is another way for evil to proliferate- and it is to promote the idea that evil is all-powerful. Perfect faith in 'pure evil' is belief in the devil instead of God.
I'm not saying that's what you are doing, DXi, I'm just throwing this idea in here, for discussion, if possible, as a person who finds this discussion interesting, to say the least.


Now I'm going to step in as a moderator:
This subject, perhaps because of the original idea of our belief or speculation about the nature of demons , has gone down the path of religious belief. We all have ours, and they don't always mesh.
Let's discuss religious belief as such, without sliding down the slippery path of 'right religion/belief' or 'wrong religion/belief'- let's keep it polite and respectful, if possible. If not, the topic will get locked.
Thank you.

[blacktiger057]

none of the above.
Demons came about from the former angels turning to fallen angels,and those beings who follow the fallen angels are demons who were not demons at one time, so through the very evil actions they do thier energy becomes demonic. The evil things they like to do and want to do is what makes them demons.
demons can also breed,so that is another way they can be created that i know of.

Demons can be purified ,and then they are no longer demons.

Also other beings can be tunrned into demons through various ways.
say if a succubi has sex with a human, and that person does no good to counter the taint of the succubi then that person's energy is lowered to the same level as that of a demon.

Succubi like any other demon can also be purified,so they are no longer a type of demon. Instead their energy is raised through purification,and the appearance changes,so thay look human or what ever non-demon form that pleases them to look like after purification.

I basically disagree with everything written above. This is what you believe though and is based on faith, so we won't be able to change each other's minds. :)

Satan, I think, is a broad term for the higher level demons. But the one Devil is a Christian belief, and they can keep him! How can evil have a leader when it is based on chaos and disorder? Anyway, I have a question about demons: Do higher level demons mean that they are so powerful that they have access to the higher levels? or Are they so evil that they can exist only on the lowest levels, but are called 'higher' because they have more power? I think it is the latter, because the more evil something is the lower the vibrations....unless higher level demons are very weak thus being able to go up to the higher levels. What do you think?

[DXi]

Demons came about from the former angels turning to fallen angels, and those beings who follow the fallen angels are demons who were not demons at one time, so through the very evil actions they do thier energy becomes demonic. The evil things they like to do and want to do is what makes them demons.
demons can also breed,so that is another way they can be created that i know of.

Demons can be purified, and then they are no longer demons.

Also other beings can be tunrned into demons through various ways.
say if a succubi has sex with a human, and that person does no good to counter the taint of the succubi then that person's energy is lowered to the same level as that of a demon.

Succubi like any other demon can also be purified,so they are no longer a type of demon. Instead their energy is raised through purification,and the appearance changes,so thay look human or what ever non-demon form that pleases them to look like after purification.

Funny .... and I basically AGREE with all that has been stated here. You have some very good understandings, Teyla. Although Satan and his followers (the 3rd of the Hosts of Heaven) are called "angels", they are literally the "sons of God" also -- as we are. Satan was called "the son of the morning" - perfect in all of his ways, until evil was found in him.

In the Book of Genesis of the Bible, the fallen "sons" of God mated with the women of the Earth, creating a race of wicked giants. (the Nephilim). This is why the Lord destroyed the first generations of man in the Flood of Noah. It was to destroy the Nephilim's offspring. Teyla, you are absolutely correct that they can and DO breed. They seek to be "creators".

Another point to make regarding the Nephilim .... is that they have assumed the new identities of ..... the ET's -- aliens. Almost every alien abduction experience involves sexual breeding and reproductive intent. The purpose is TO CREATE BODIES to be inhabited by those who were denied them when they were cast down. The purpose of obtaining a body, as those of us desired when we chose to come to this Earth, is to achieve resurrection as Christ did. Resurrection (unification of the glorified body and the translated soul), is necessary to move higher up the spiritual realms and "become like God".

And you are very correct about demons being able to become purified and move higher up the spiritual realms. Only most won't. Not many people understand this, and I commend you HIGHLY for understanding it. It's all about ETERNAL PROGRESSION. The devils of hell "could" be released from "damnation" (which is stopped progression), and begin the progression process all over again .... if they could and would repent. The darkness and evil that surrounds them, in addition to the darkness within themselves, most often prevents them from doing this. I know of exorcists who TEACH THEM to seek the Light, and when they DO seek it, Ministering Angels to the underworld usher them out into a higher world of spirits. They are then prepared to come to an Earth to obtain a body, be tested as to whether they will live righteously, die righteously, and receive their resurrected state that leads them to higher progression.

I'm sure I'll be criticized or blasted for voicing my understandings. But I've long-since stopped worrying about what other people think. I've been given some excellent God-given knowledge, and I've studied extensively in many avenues of spirituality.

Just recently, I viewed a documentary on Google Videos about what we've discussed above. It's EXCELLENT, and I highly recommend taking the time to watch it. You can view it here .....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7895619416665779051&q=ufo+documentary%5D+duration%3Along

[star]

How do you become qualified to say whether something is a demon, is demonic, or is the work of a demon?

I mean, if someone came here and said they needed help, and it was a demon thing, how would you check?

[CFTraveler]

DXi wrote:
And you are very correct about demons being able to become purified and move higher up the spiritual realms. Only most won't. Not many people understand this, and I commend you HIGHLY for understanding it. It's all about ETERNAL PROGRESSION. The devils of hell "could" be released from "damnation" (which is stopped progression), and begin the progression process all over again .... if they could and would repent. The darkness and evil that surrounds them, in addition to the darkness within themselves, most often prevents them from doing this. I know of exorcists who TEACH THEM to seek the Light, and when they DO seek it, Ministering Angels to the underworld usher them out into a higher world of spirits. They are then prepared to come to an Earth to obtain a body, be tested as to whether they will live righteously, die righteously, and receive their resurrected state that leads them to higher progression. Actually, I find this fascinating.

I'm sure I'll be criticized or blasted for voicing my understandings There'll be no blasting here if we all stay polite. Criticism, however, is always part of controversial interchange.

[blacktiger057]

LOL CF and Teyla, once you described it in more detail I actually agree with it....I still don't believe that there is only one Satan out there, though. But if God sent the flood(which killed thousands of innocent things) why didn't he just like strike all of the bad ones with lightening?

[CFTraveler]

LOL CF and Teyla, once you described it in more detail I actually agree with it....I still don't believe that there is only one Satan out there, though. But if God sent the flood(which killed thousands of innocent things) why didn't he just like strike all of the bad ones with lightening? Actually I don't agree with the idea of 'one Satan' either- to me satan is the archetype of evil, and the meaning of evil is different for most people with some similarities depending on culture, but the biblical Satan was a title that meant 'adversary', and the adversary of man, not of God. So IMHO it is a 'title', a quality, part of being incarnated in this reality. (Part of being here is overcoming an opposing force, and that results in growth.)
I do believe there are demons, and they can be redeemed or transmutated into angels- depending on why they're here and what they're supposed to do, and frankly, only God really knows that- I can only speculate.
Satan and Lucifer are two distinct biblical characters- although both are confused by modern christians. Where satan was a title given to a job which God made a part of creation, Lucifer was an Angel (higher order being) who chose to defy God and is now 'in darkness', isolated by his own device. If anything, it's sad.
I suppose it's fair to say that Lucifer 'became satan' that is, he became our adversary (as a title), but it is my opinion that some religious denominations have elevated this archetype to 'anti-god', something that bothers me for many reasons.

[Korpo]

Who said God sent the flood? So many religions, traditions and stories are proliferated in so many cultures, it can hardly be said that someone sent the flood.

If so, "he" warned people with very different believes all over the world, and if you go down that road you would have to acknowledge dozens of religions as absolutely equal, be they from South America, be they from the Middle East, and so on.

Personally I'm not such a big fan of beliefs that make God into a person that does this and that. While I do not doubt God exists, I do not believe "he" made some flood happen or punishes "non-believers" or "sinners". God is part of everyone and everything that is created and that is. The other stuff to me is just belief systems that want to rein in the absolute vastness of love, awareness and the power of creation that God is.

Oliver

[blacktiger057]

Personally, I think the whole book of Genesis is symbolic. Don't tell me we fell from grace because we ate an apple.... :)

CF, interesting thought...Are there any other angels that fell from grace, or are there too many to count?

[star]

How do you become qualified to say whether something is a demon, is demonic, or is the work of a demon?

I mean, if someone came here and said they needed help, and it was a demon thing, how would you check?

*Bump*

[CFTraveler]

Who said God sent the flood? So many religions, traditions and stories are proliferated in so many cultures, it can hardly be said that someone sent the flood.

If so, "he" warned people with very different believes all over the world, and if you go down that road you would have to acknowledge dozens of religions as absolutely equal, be they from South America, be they from the Middle East, and so on.

Personally I'm not such a big fan of beliefs that make God into a person that does this and that. While I do not doubt God exists, I do not believe "he" made some flood happen or punishes "non-believers" or "sinners". God is part of everyone and everything that is created and that is. The other stuff to me is just belief systems that want to rein in the absolute vastness of love, awareness and the power of creation that God is.

Oliver I agree. I personally think there must have been a flood of gigantic proportions, and the ancients had to explain it in a way that fit their beliefs- since the folks that wrote the Bible had a belief in a God that was more like a fief lord than a parental figure (that came later with Jesus), it was easy to ascribe it as a punishment for something that they had done wrong. If it had been done in the time of Jesus, the explanation would have been different, I'm sure.

[CFTraveler]

Personally, I think the whole book of Genesis is symbolic. Don't tell me we fell from grace because we ate an apple.... :)

CF, interesting thought...Are there any other angels that fell from grace, or are there too many to count? I agree also. There were more than one version of Genesis, with different takes on the 'forbidden fruit' theme.
The idea of the apple is modern, since it is believed that the fruit was prob. a fig- and it makes sense if it's symbolic, because 'eating from the fruit of knowledge of Good & evil' illustrates a process that only humans have- the ability to label something 'good' or 'bad' is something that only humans do- so that ability (if you wish to call it that) is something that the majority of animals don't have- which separates us from most of them.
This is really ironic, because it is our outlook (condemning) that made us choose the 'being punished for it' explanation for that one.

Oh, if I remember my Book of Enoch correctly, there was more to the story- Lucifer had a retinue of angels that took his side and the whole bunch turned into demons.
Then there is the story of Adam and Lilith (before Eve) who spawned Nephilim, (the word Giant is an interpretation that is in doubt, since the word nephilim is closer to 'vampires' than giants, if I remember correctly (don't make me get my books to verify this, please) but anyway, the Nephilim became problematic because they were preying on reg. humans (don't know how, since Adam and Eve were supposed to be the first humans, but oh well) so God got rid of her and them and made them inhabit another realm (the lower planes?) and then God made Eve for Adam, and the rest is history (or mythology).
I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself- I haven't had my second cup today.

[star]

So are demons people who developed a disease and grow to be very tall, like giants?

Edit: Vampire Giants?

[CFTraveler]

No, the hebrew word that was translated as 'giants' is a word that also means 'blood sucking creatures', which is why Lilith was considered as a vampire in the local mythology. So at the time that these stories were told, they could translate the words as giants or vampires, and since the local greeks (or romans, I don't remember which) didn't have vampires in their mythology, translated the word as giants. Now, since Lilith (their mother) is considered a vampire, it follows (or figures) that the original story must have meant vampire, and not giant.
Don't hold me to this in detail because I'm telling you this from memory as I haven't dug up my literature on this.

[star]

How do you become qualified to say whether something is a demon, is demonic, or is the work of a demon?

I mean, if someone came here and said they needed help, and it was a demon thing, how would you check?

*Bump*

*Double Bump*

[blacktiger057]

Definition pending, star. But let's assume that a demon is a negative being that has attached itself to someone. One of the most effective ways people can tell if it is a demon is by scanning. Are you familiar with this? From experience, demon attachments and psi vamps cords feel very different. One is physically painful to my hand(demons) while psi vamps feel like warmth that is dreadfully evil(almost like cold warmth, hard to describe) :)

Another way is studying the personality of demons. Serious demons can cause physical pain, whisper in your head, and even move things around the house! Psi vamps just make you feel tired and drained.

Finally, you could astral project and see what type of attachment is on your physical body....but this can be dangerous, and you will probably having trouble exiting since your chakras would be messed up(if the thing was attached to you). In the end, the victim will know what it is if they know how different entities function. Hope this helped!

Lots of Light! :D

Scott

[DXi]

How do you become qualified to say whether something is a demon, is demonic, or is the work of a demon?

I mean, if someone came here and said they needed help, and it was a demon thing, how would you check?
Hi, Star ...

I don't think it IS easy to discern the difference between demons and unholy spirits. They both seem to inhabit the same realm, which is the lower astral.

It's easier if one can spiritually "see" into that realm, or astral project into that realm ... but why would someone want to do that? My understanding is that unholy spirits appear as "shadows". People have written that they appear as black flies that zoom by, or like a ripple of water or a heat wave passing by.

I believe one should learn discernment by becoming grounded in God. Thereby, they can measure the conduct and content of communication with spirits that are trying to make themselves known. HOWEVER, my belief is also .... that communicating with spirits is a BIG MISTAKE. The difference is .... AT WHAT LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT ARE THESE SPIRITS?

If you want GOD to communicate with you, He does so through His Holy Spirit. It means developing a relationship with Him through prayer, and by learning about Him through the Scriptures. He might also, in much rarer cases, send an Angel to deliver a message. But most people who have learned to hear the Voice of God, simply speak with Him and hear Him through His Holy Spirit. Then His communication becomes personal revelation and Scripture just for you.

By being grounded in the Lord, all other spiritual communications can be measured or discerned. And as you said before, these unholy spirits and demons JUST LOVE to play God. Many, many people fall for it too. If a person doesn't believe in God, they are really on their own without clear guidance about spiritual things. And if they hear spirits, the spirits just LOVE to teach them all sorts of garbage of low-level thought from a low-level existence.

Without seeking help from the Lord, a person can hopefully discern the demonic by how it makes them FEEL, and by what is communicated ... such as FEAR, SORROW, WORRY, NEGATIVITY, INTRUSION, INSISTENCE, REPETITION, ECHOING/REVERBED VOICES, SICK FEELING, ANXIETY, INCESSANT CHATTERING, COMMENTING ON EVERYTHING ONE IS THINKING and DOING. I don't think it matters at this point whether it is communication by a demon or by an unholy spirit. The fact IS ... it's an intrusion and a violation of one's free will. God doesn't operate that way.

Again, my belief is that it's a BIG MISTAKE to communicate with ANY spirits other than the Holy Spirit of God. This comes by seeking Him, learning about Him, and developing a relationship with Him. It's the ONLY way to TRUTH, as far as I'm concerned. What better way is there than to learn TRUTH from GOD???

I hope I've helped you somehow ....

[blacktiger057]

It's the ONLY way to TRUTH, as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, if you are Christian. Seeking to be one with the Divine is the ultimate truth and love, though :)

[DXi]

It's the ONLY way to TRUTH, as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, if you are Christian. Seeking to be one with the Divine is the ultimate truth and love, though :)

God is OUR FATHER. THE FATHER OF ALL. Jesus Christ is His Firstborn Son. He is also our Brother.

Seek after your FATHER. HE is the "Divine".

[Tom]

In a set of CDs I listened to - it was more a lecture than a book - a priest was saying that anyone can pray and go directly to God, but that it would be more effective to go through his son, Jesus - and if you want to go through Jesus to get to God it is best to talk to his mother, Mary. The priest said to imagine someone you don't know coming over to talk to you and then imagine your own mother coming to see you - who will get a warmer welcome? I just thought I'd throw this in while we are talking about religion. I'm neither Catholic nor Christian. It just happens that I go through a lot of audio material at work.

[chips]

how did the option of "all or none of the above" end up in the poll? i didnt put it there...
I did and put a note about it on the original post and signed it.- CF.

[DXi]

In a set of CDs I listened to - it was more a lecture than a book - a priest was saying that anyone can pray and go directly to God, but that it would be more effective to go through his son, Jesus - and if you want to go through Jesus to get to God it is best to talk to his mother, Mary. The priest said to imagine someone you don't know coming over to talk to you and then imagine your own mother coming to see you - who will get a warmer welcome? I just thought I'd throw this in while we are talking about religion. I'm neither Catholic nor Christian. It just happens that I go through a lot of audio material at work.

This is Catholic thought. But what did Jesus Christ personally do? And how did he teach us to pray? He said to pray directly to the Father in His name.

"Our Father, Who art in Heaven
Hallowed Be Thy Name ....."

What you wrote above is one of the marks of the apostasy and corruption of the Catholic Church.

BTW, you're very lucky to have a job where you can listen to audio material all day. WOW!!! I'd be absolutely BRILLIANT if I could do that over a long period of time.


--------------------------

[star]

I thought that Jesus and the Holy Mary came more often, or even angels to spread the word of the lord. What along the lines of thinking that speaking to them is such a bad idea?

In fact it almost seems to me that your saying that God gets offended if you do so?

[CFTraveler]

I'll say the same thing DXi said but I'll say it my own way:
When Jesus came here one of the things he did was to teach us how to talk to God- and in the 'Lord's Prayer' he taught us to realize that God is not an entity to be separate from, but our Parent. And we don't need (or shouldn't need an 'appointment' through our dad's secretary) to talk to God, who is our Dad. (And I say "Dad", because the word Jesus used was "ABBA", which is the way they said 'daddy' way back when.), indicating that God is immediate to us, our father who loves us.
The Catholic church (and I was raised catholic, so I know this) separated our consciousness from God's (or declared it to be so) and put the Pope in Jesus' place, and made the Pope an intermediary to our communion with God. So there is a strong feeling amongst catholics that 'we are not worthy' to talk to God and have to give the church the power, instead of God.

[blacktiger057]

Exactly, CF. Dxi, what you said was true. I was just saying the same thing in a different way to make it more general. To me, God, Goddess, Jesus, Holy Spirit, Avatars are just different things that make up the one whole divine presence. I think Catholics did have half of this underwtanding when it came to the trinity.

[star]

Ah I see!

[DXi]

I'll say the same thing DXi said but I'll say it my own way:
When Jesus came here one of the things he did was to teach us how to talk to God- and in the 'Lord's Prayer' he taught us to realize that God is not an entity to be separate from, but our Parent. And we don't need (or shouldn't need an 'appointment' through our dad's secretary) to talk to God, who is our Dad. (And I say "Dad", because the word Jesus used was "ABBA", which is the way they said 'daddy' way back when.), indicating that God is immediate to us, our father who loves us.
The Catholic church (and I was raised catholic, so I know this) separated our consciousness from God's (or declared it to be so) and put the Pope in Jesus' place, and made the Pope an intermediary to our communion with God. So there is a strong feeling amongst catholics that 'we are not worthy' to talk to God and have to give the church the power, instead of God.

Very well said, CFTraveler!!!

[katarina]

can a demon actually kill a human apart from possessing his/her body? I think of something like breaking the silver cord or smth similar. thanks.

[GMAN12]

It is quite a real danger. In the hands of a black magician, it can kill. It is also possible for it just to influence you into suicidal thoughts, make things not go the way you want it to, and pretty much downhill which is why it is great to learn psychic self defense and do energy work to make you very strong to those ill effects. Y'know Robert Bruce did pretty much a self exorcise on himself to take a demon out? I haven't heard the whole story, but I hope to later in May.

[John Sorensen]

In my experience, nothing in the universe can harm you without your CONSENT. Granted it me be conscious or unconscious consent, but consent none the less.

Does anyone have any practical suggestions for telling/identifying a supposed "demon" from just a thought-form?

[John Sorensen]

I'll say the same thing DXi said but I'll say it my own way:
When Jesus came here one of the things he did was to teach us how to talk to God- and in the 'Lord's Prayer' he taught us to realize that God is not an entity to be separate from, but our Parent. And we don't need (or shouldn't need an 'appointment' through our dad's secretary) to talk to God, who is our Dad. (And I say "Dad", because the word Jesus used was "ABBA", which is the way they said 'daddy' way back when.), indicating that God is immediate to us, our father who loves us.
The Catholic church (and I was raised catholic, so I know this) separated our consciousness from God's (or declared it to be so) and put the Pope in Jesus' place, and made the Pope an intermediary to our communion with God. So there is a strong feeling amongst catholics that 'we are not worthy' to talk to God and have to give the church the power, instead of God.

God / All That Is / Tao / The Living Universe doesn't need a proxy. Not now, not ever.

Fun Q's for people say otherwise: "Why would the greatest intelligence in the universe lack the ability to communicate with you directly, are you saying that God has limits?"

[katarina]

Yes, I've learned enough things about demons' psychic influences (I've been in that for my whole life), but I'm also being attacked during sleep on daily basis, so I just need to know can something really, really bad happen than. He paralyzes my body and chokes me sometimes. I think that my self-defense progress is going pretty well, by the way. Wish me luck!

[IA56]

God / All That Is / Tao / The Living Universe doesn't need a proxy. Not now, not ever.

Fun Q's for people say otherwise: "Why would the greatest intelligence in the universe lack the ability to communicate with you directly, are you saying that God has limits?"

My Picture of the hiearcy or what to call it....what we can apprehend as far as I can see...is as I have told about the divider-line experience...up to the divider-line or beneath is what we create...obowe is what GOD is....he have given us a free-will...and GOD does not judge what we do...because of the cause and effect law...what we sow we reap...etc....and the incarnation Wheel is working until we want to take the direct path and jump of the spiral path.From divider-line is the door what is narrow to the ocean of LOVE as GOD is...God does not judge us...and we are not ready until we are ready to enter our origin of home.

Love
ia

[GMAN12]

katarina, try taking a salt bath. Robert says soaking in salt water can cleanse and rid you of those psychic attachments and creates an Electromagnetic field that surrounds your body.

[John Sorensen]

My Picture of the hiearcy or what to call it....what we can apprehend as far as I can see...is as I have told about the divider-line experience...up to the divider-line or beneath is what we create...obowe is what GOD is....he have given us a free-will...and GOD does not judge what we do...because of the cause and effect law...what we sow we reap...etc....and the incarnation Wheel is working until we want to take the direct path and jump of the spiral path.From divider-line is the door what is narrow to the ocean of LOVE as GOD is...God does not judge us...and we are not ready until we are ready to enter our origin of home.





Love
iaI agree with you in parts, but I don't buy into the "ready" part or the "incarnation wheel". All of time is simultaneous, and from my current view point, we exist in physical bodies for a reason, we chose to be here, simple because certain experiences are only possible in a material body, while other entities has chosen purely non-physical existences, and others have chosen combinations of both, but these are only some options out of an ocean of infinite possibilities,

as we exist as many selves simultaneously, including alternate selves, probable selves and probable higher selves, but our focus right now is on this particular incarnation, but if you shift your current focus, you will experience yourself primarily as the tree rather than the branch on the tree.

[GMAN12]

We can truly believe in whatever we want. I am myself an open skeptic to everything as I started to follow Robert Bruce's path of the masters which is the path of self experience. I started through going to my past self and now I am being visited by my future self almost nightly because it knows when i'm going to project to my younger self. This allows me to advance a lot quicker as well because I am teaching my younger self about these skills and my future self if helping on more advanced topics. Time isn't defined by anything. We just gave it a word. I have yet to experience the possession of my past self as well as going to many different dimensions with different variables in place. I know that it might even be possible to reincarnated in the past since time really doesn't exist.

[IA56]

I agree with you in parts, but I don't buy into the "ready" part or the "incarnation wheel". All of time is simultaneous, and from my current view point, we exist in physical bodies for a reason, we chose to be here, simple because certain experiences are only possible in a material body, while other entities has chosen purely non-physical existences, and others have chosen combinations of both, but these are only some options out of an ocean of infinite possibilities,

as we exist as many selves simultaneously, including alternate selves, probable selves and probable higher selves, but our focus right now is on this particular incarnation, but if you shift your current focus, you will experience yourself primarily as the tree rather than the branch on the tree.

I wrote...as far as I can see today...and off course all will be revised when I will understand more :-)
But that is my experience in Writing moment.
Yes I agree with you too, that we are here for a reason, as for me it is to be able to enter through the narrow gate into the real home from where I was out breathened :-) into the duality to be able to understand what creating and cration is all about :-)

Love
ia

[John Sorensen]

Yes, I've learned enough things about demons' psychic influences (I've been in that for my whole life), but I'm also being attacked during sleep on daily basis, so I just need to know can something really, really bad happen than. He paralyzes my body and chokes me sometimes. I think that my self-defense progress is going pretty well, by the way. Wish me luck!

When you say paralyzes you, are you talking about your physical body, or are you in the dream state?

What part of sleep are you experiencing this? Is it near the early hours of the morning when you wake up? I am curious, are you aware that while we sleep we undergo muscle atonia, (sleep paralysis) while going to sleep and typically when waking. Look up wikipedia page "sleep paralysis" for some general info.

This is a normal bodily process, we go into sleep paralysis so that we don't act out our dreams, thrashing about and hurting our bodies or rolling out of bed while sleeping. There is even a condition commonly referred to as Night Terrors, where people do not go into sleep paralysis and DO thrash about and hurt themselves, or others, there is also sleep walking.

Historically, sleep paralysis has been commonly thought of as being held down by an entity, and in fact if you concentrate your attention on such a thing with intent, you WILL create a thought form to fulfil your expectations.

I have experienced sleeping paralysis when coming out of a lucid dream, back into non-dream sleep (when we usually are not aware). The first time it scared the hell out of me, I tried to move my muscles with all my effort, but to no avail.

The second time was not so bad, it stopped after a minute. Then I did some reading, and the third time I KNEW what it was, recognised the state and knew what to do.

Here is the thing, if during sleep paralysis you try and move your muscles, it will not work, it's like trying to move your physical body with your mental body. You may as well try and start the car with your house key.

However, instead of trying to move your physical muscles, instead have the Conscious Intention to wake up, and you will. I have used that method successfully several times, it is easy.

The thing is not to panic, or give in to fear. "We have nothing to fear but fear itself"

Now, let's say there is an actual entity, well even MORE important not to give in to fear.

If a rabid dog attacks you, you don't panic and give in to fear, you kill it or disable it, and go back to whatever you were doing, or otherwise you flee. Either way you make a Conscious Decision as a Creator, not an Unconscious Reaction, which is what happens when we panic or allow fear into our minds.

When the Spartans fought the Persians, a battle in which their death was CERTAIN, they had no fear in their hearts, they marched into battle willingly, and I imagine with big grins on their faces, because they knew their enemy was marching into a living hell, the likes of which they had never encountered, and which surely gave them nightmares and filled them with fear.

Fear is a choice, well a reaction if we are talking biological survival oriented fear, rather than psychological fear. Nothing in the universe can take away your free will or ability to think your own thoughts. Your mind is free to use as you please, rather than choosing fear, why not chose a great big sword and when you encounter that demon, cut its head off and show it that you are a conscious citizen of the universe, full of light and unlimited energy, a multidimensional being who refuses to be a victim to anyone or anything.

[katarina]

John Sorensen, thanks, I know what sleeping paralysis is, I've been experiencing it for years BUT in my case it is caused by entities that practically live with me for who knows how long. I'm also able to see entities with my regular eye-sight while I'm awake, it only requires a little concentration to be able to see them moving through walls etc. They are torturing me and forcing me to evolve, of course, but the thing that scared me most was that 2-3 meters high profoundly black entity (probably a demon) who paralysed my physical, etheric and astral body (3 in 1) and I had to beg him to stop doing it because he was extremely big and strong. I'm talking about mind-split effect here, where my astral body was completely aware of the entity and was talking to him and begging him to let me go, while etheric and physical body also remained conscious, but were unable to do a thing. :wink: I'm a good person and I don't mess up with people, ghosts and demons and I certainly wouldn't kill any of them, I have my own path and way of development and just want them to go somewhere else and finally forget about me. That's it.

[Polaris Akkadian]

I can say for myself, I know for a fact from my experience Demons, Spirits, Non-Physical Entity's, whatever you may call them, do indeed exist. Why wouldnt the Divine/Source permit it anyway? When one's awareness is grounded into the relative level of consciousness, technically "anything" already does exist within the microcosm of God as Infinite Potentiality. As For Mother Nature, She is Objective, Nature being objective within this reality framework to be precise, no doubt this planet is crawling with the unseen spirits.

It can just be difficult to tell an etheric being from one from the mental planes(astral).

[CFTraveler]

Hi Polaris. I agree that there must be 'everything' possible- but how we distinguish or assign order of strength/quality is or always has been a mystery to me. I've seen some horrific things that were actually harmless, and some innocuous-looking things that were capable of harm, or at least so it seemed to me. So I stand on the "IDK" or "What Was That?" fence.

[eyeoneblack]

One of the scariest negs I ever met was simply a voice calling from across the street saying, "Do you need some help!? Do you need some help with that?"

I woke up calling, "Jesus, Jesus save me!!!"

Weird.

[Polaris Akkadian]

Hi Polaris. I agree that there must be 'everything' possible- but how we distinguish or assign order of strength/quality is or always has been a mystery to me. I've seen some horrific things that were actually harmless, and some innocuous-looking things that were capable of harm, or at least so it seemed to me. So I stand on the "IDK" or "What Was That?" fence.

Hi CFT yes, there was a point in my life as well I used to be cynical and radically skeptical about the existence of these entity's.("They are all just thought forms, they are all imaginary."

Some experiences I couldn't explain from simple logical reasoning allowed me to open up more and be on the "IDK maybe there is something there to this" fence as well. When I had validations and confirmations of things I have experienced through particular correlations, conditions and synchronicity, I had the unique opportunity which allowed me to assess myself more and more based on those experiences and my attitude and approach behind it. So i cant help but be quite certain of it.

The way I think and process. 'We', our brains are all biologically wired differently.(It's not all just about a persons belief system alone.)

How and why these things occur.

The Theoretical nature behind their effects on us(The Mind & Psyche) as well as the physical environment.

It has given me some good perspective behind the whole phenomena which has given me some leads. I cant say I "Absolutely" know everything about them, but I am very sure that they do in fact exist.

Yes I agree, It can be very difficult when categorizing and classifying these beings and coming to a collective agreement upon it. It's all relative really, which is why I try not to make it too complicated with the terminology and classifications. As I do not suspect there to be a one to one correlation between every metaphysical concept and every "reality" there is to match it, within mother nature's laws for our reality.

The consensus so far I have had about these discussions with some clairvoyants, mediums, and other sensitives, is that one can tell a thought form because it has the same energy signature of the person that has created it. It is literally an extension of the person. Entitys and spirits have their own unique energy signatures, one can tell when interfacing with their conciousness. Just like feeling the energy of a rock, will feel different from feeling the energy of the grass, to a squirrel to a tree, any given life form etc. and on a more individual level, among us humans. So too they. This all happens on an intuitive level, and anyone can try, practice, and get the hang of it to sharpen their natural skills.

-Akkadian

[Osiris]

Yeah there are plenty ugly spooks and there are strong ugly spooks, but Demons are an entirely different ball of wax and not I dont believe interested in people. People are chump change to them. Words like Angels, Demons ect are thrown around way to loosely.

[Aunt Clair]

I believe imho and ime;

that God is plural and bi gendered and created us and we re-create them. The earth is one of many planets of sentient lifeforms scattered far from each other. But we are all connected in consciousness. The Elohim are an Abrahamic description of the Godhead; either, neither , or.Upon each sentient body there are two sides;

The left side; Ama, Mother,Sophia/Wisdom, night, black ,peace, mercy,compassion The right side;Aba, Father, Pistis/Power, day, white, dominion, knowlege, love

This dichotomy is expressed in humanity on our spinal chakral column/Tree of Life and in our subtle energy body.

As on the right , so on the left. And as above so below.

Below the human energy body are infernal realms; the roots of the tree, which may become a mirror of the Tree above or may become rotted, mildewed and manifest negative earthbound spirits and demons. These plague the self, the current live family, the future progeny et al. They are predatious in nature sucking life force, causing nightmares, depleting immune systems and promoting violence, fear, revenge and hatred.

Above the human energy body in the supernal realms; through the canopy are the teaching planes of Shamballah,where human projectors and spirits learn to love, forgive, heal,exorcise, transmute,protect, teach , inspire and serve as angels.

Demons are one name for negative entities, these may be alive unconsciously projecting
or targeting at will, they might be constrained in helscape nightmare realms while alive . They might live in the hels while alive. They can be helped and should be.

Demons are not a Christian construct but Christianity adopted mistruths concerning occult wisdoms that there were fallen angels, there are not.That there is a red suited horned hooved and tailed Satan ruling in Hell, that is incorrect. Satan is a word meaning chief prosecutor , the one who condemns the sinner to God and evokes a consequence. Lucifer is another misnomer meaning the rising star and is not personified despite Christian rhetoric. Samael is an obedient archangel who is a warden in the lower planes and a previous incarnation of the Christ.

Devas both good and bad are the name of angels and devils from the ancient Hindu Vedic texts which predate Abrahamic sacred texts. Buddha described demons and the illusion of pain and nightmares they evoked in him and his fight to escape the illusion. He called life an illusion, too.

When the human is born of negative vibration parent/s they may enter the world with a negative vibration which can be healed and ascended. When a strong negative spirit ancestor chooses they may ride upon , in, under or over their progeny and afflict them trying to seduce them to their 'sins' to live vicariously through them. And they consume the energy of their family , victimizing them like they are prey.

The negative vibration has a hierarchy
temporary
*Thought Forms of negative emotions
( fear, grief, revenge, hatred,violent lust)unleased with or without intention;
*Negative Dreamstate/unconscious /Astral Accidents
(projected humans unintentionally raging, attacking or preying upon an 'enemy')
*Projecting Magickians
(who choose to attend to inflict harm to a percieved 'enemy')
*Humans under neg/s influence
*Demonic Spirit who is chaotic attacking by opportunity and chance
*Human under temporary control by other neg/s
*Demonic Spirit who purposely clouds mind and evokes reaction to eat energy
*Humans under attachment by other neg/s
*Demonic Spirit who seeks kindred human prey attaching to them urging vice
*Human possessed by other neg
*Demonic Spirit with motivation and skill to seek control and perpetuate existence
*Human possessed by multiple negs
*Demon who controls a legion of enslaved deceased negs
*Human possessed by legion of negs under control of one neg
*Goetic Demon
(one who appears according to the lesson at hand and judges and afflicts without mercy)
*Goetic Form
(a teaching spirit who has both angelic and demonic aspects and who punishes the wicked and awards the virtuous, justly)

In the Judaic tradition there are no demons, God created no evil. Humans manifest the demons of this world and the next by our words, thoughts, actions of non love to self and each other.