Speaking in Tongues/Languages

[Sumo7]

Hello all... I tried to pick what I felt was the most appropriate section for this question so here goes. I’m trying to research the nature of “speaking in tongues” from metaphysical perspectives. I myself speak in tongues. I know that both Christians and Non-Christians have done this for hundreds of years as well.

I’m not sure if it is a manifestation of our Higher Selves or what not. I heard from someone that it could be a higher form of phasing. (Not sure what phasing is though… my bad!) I’d love to hear what anyone has to say regarding this, what they think it is, etc. and their personal experiences. :)

[Ascendant]

Do you want a religious perspective?

[Sumo7]

Do you want a religious perspective?

Hmmm... well as long as it isn't from a Biblical perspective. Not that I have any problems with Christians, because I sort of am one, it's just I know that perspective quite well. I'm mainly researching other viewpoints... religious or metaphysical though is cool with me. :)

[Dsmoke]

Can you translate it as you would a foreign language?

In other words, it is mostly random sounds or is there an actual linguistic structre, sentence structure, conjugated words, grammar, etc.?

I am not saying that "random sounds" are meaningless, just that there's a distinction between the two types.

[Ascendant]

Hmmm... well as long as it isn't from a Biblical perspective. Not that I have any problems with Christians, because I sort of am one, it's just I know that perspective quite well. I'm mainly researching other viewpoints... religious or metaphysical though is cool with me.

Alrighty. Here's what I know.

Most Christian religions when they experience "the gift of tongues" are talking about some weird language or nonsensical babbling which spontaneously comes upon them. I must admit that I've never seen why this might be desirable or useful.

However, it's different with my religion, at least in my experience. When people miraculously understand someone speaking in a different language, or if someone can miraculously speak a foreign language that he has not learned, then we call that the gift of tongues. Since we send many missionaries to different countries, this is not an entirely infrequent occurence. In this case, we designate the gift of tongues to be one of the "gifts of the spirit," which include healing, discerning of spirits, working of miracles, etc, which in my opinion are the basic psychic powers.

In our religion, we believe in some kind of field emanating from God, which we call the Light of Christ. This is supposed to encompass, surround, and comprehend all things, and has properties remarkably similar to the Field that researchers of psi have discovered. This is also tied to the gifts of the spirit.

[Celeborn]

While gibberish is sometimes considered "speaking in tongues" by some denominations, many others have to have it linguistically verified.

My uncle spontaneously developed the ability to speak scripture in Latin when he was a kid. It lasted until about age 18, and then it disappeared. While he could not understand what he himself was saying, my Grandmother called in several Catholic priests to figure out what he was saying. They verified that he was speaking Latin, perfectly, and that it was not just memorized lines.

He formed a bunch of youth groups and a huge following, exhibiting incredible charisma. When the gift of tongues went away as he got older, the leadership abilities, confidence, and eventually the devote Christianity went away too.

In my life time have never even heard my Uncle talk about God or Jesus before, even though all of my other family member agree that he was once the most religious person they ever knew.


Hmmm... well as long as it isn't from a Biblical perspective.

I couldn’t help giving the Christian tongues, because I have the personal story, but here is some more general info.

Siberian/Chinese/Korean Shaman are supposed to be able to speak in tongues, but only while they are being possessed by their tutelary spirit. The shaman intentionally allows the spirit (which they are close friends with and have known for many years, not just any old spirit) to enter into them and take control over their bodies. This is done so that the now empowered shaman can easily exercise offending negative entities out of their patients bodies.
To become a shaman in this tradition, one must survive the possession sickness (a deadly illness similar in appearance to scitsophrenia) and master the techniques for spirit control to regain a handle on their lives.

If you want to know more, I wrote a paper on shamanism for a conference on Korea at my college. I don't talk specifically about the tongues phenomena though. Here is a link:
http://brian.hoffert.faculty.noctrl.edu ... rence.html (http://brian.hoffert.faculty.noctrl.edu/KOREA/Korea.Conference.html)
Mine is the first one.

[Sumo7]

Can you translate it as you would a foreign language?

In other words, it is mostly random sounds or is there an actual linguistic structre, sentence structure, conjugated words, grammar, etc.?

I am not saying that "random sounds" are meaningless, just that there's a distinction between the two types.

For me... Oh yes. Again, when speaking in tongues you don't know what you are saying and (typically) in what particular language. But I know without a doubt I am speaking some kind of language and not just random bursts. I don't have any kind of computer audio program or I would actually record it and such... so there isn't any hardcore proof that I can supply you with in that regard.

When I speak in tongues it sounds literally as if you turned on a foreign language channel. I think I'm speaking some kind of latin/european derivative type language, but again I'm not a linguistics professional so I couldn't tell you all about the structure in detail. I completely agree with you that there are two types though, I think mine is a genuine language... I'm just trying to investigate more into the nature of it. Let's keep talking about this!

[Sumo7]

While gibberish is sometimes considered "speaking in tongues" by some denominations, many others have to have it linguistically verified.

My uncle spontaneously developed the ability to speak scripture in Latin when he was a kid. It lasted until about age 18, and then it disappeared. While he could not understand what he himself was saying, my Grandmother called in several Catholic priests to figure out what he was saying. They verified that he was speaking Latin, perfectly, and that it was not just memorized lines.

He formed a bunch of youth groups and a huge following, exhibiting incredible charisma. When the gift of tongues went away as he got older, the leadership abilities, confidence, and eventually the devote Christianity went away too.

In my life time have never even heard my Uncle talk about God or Jesus before, even though all of my other family member agree that he was once the most religious person they ever knew.


Hmmm... well as long as it isn't from a Biblical perspective.

I couldn’t help giving the Christian tongues, because I have the personal story, but here is some more general info.

Actually I find that very interesting, you usually don't hear about tongues too much outside of the Pentecostal arena. I know a man who also talks in Latin from time to time when he speaks in tongues and it was verified by a man who had studied the language for many years.

I know for myself I have spoken in many different kinds of languages, it seems to change to a new one every year or so. And I've been having this for about twelve years now... kind of fascinating.

I'd love to keep talking about this with you... and I'll definitely check out your paper. :)

I feel that speaking in tongues is connecting with your Higher Self. It is a manifestation of your Higher Self who is praying through you. Sometimes you don't even know what you should pray for but your Higher Self does. Paul said in the bible that there are "various kinds of tongues". I think this means that there is the kind where it is a real language as described in Acts and there is the kind that only God understands, which is call "praying in tongues".

1 Cor 14:2 "For those who speak in a tongue do not speak to other people but to God; for nobody understands them, since they are speaking mysteries in the Spirit . . . Those who speak in a tongue build up themselves..."

This is the type that I speak and I feel great when it happens which is at will, it is spiritually uplifting and feels cleansing. I usually pray in tongues when I am praying for someone after I have prayed in the usual way. To loosely quote the bible it says "I pray with the spirit and I pray with the understanding, I sing in the spirit and I sing with the understanding". It is so wonderful to sing in tongues!!!

I see many correlations to metaphysical concepts and experiences to those that are in the bible. I think that alot of these experiences are universal but Christians tend to think that they can only happen to Christians, if they believe they can happen at all (like healing, exorcism, prophecy, etc.).

I find it exciting to be able to correlate things from the bible and my own Christian experiences to things I am learning here. It seems that the true meaning of alot of the scriptures have changed in the interpretation from the original meaning. I find to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" means to be "manifesting your Higher Self". When your Higher Self manifests, there is healing, demons flee, etc. Which in Christian language means the "gifts of the spirit" are in operation.

I feel that Christians in general have lost the knowledge of how to manifest their higher selves. I actually have Christian friends who think it is "of the devil" to go into a trance. Yet this seems to be a prerequisite for the Higher Self manifesting. The bible describes Peter going into a trance and seeing a vision and many other examples of altered states of consciousness. One of my friends is very suspect of me for astral projecing but even Paul had an experience where he didn't know if he was in the body or out of body. John was "in the spirit" on the Lord's day. I strongly believe that these experiences are for all Christians today, but most seem content to warm the pews and ignore the exciting metaphysical side of Christianity that actually gets us closer to God.

I've gone on enough now, would love to hear from more people about this.

Mira

[star]

I would say people in general are more disconencted to their higher selves. A better connection to my own higher self is something I am intrested in. (Since I only have such a small pot of knowledge on the subject.)


BTW- my aunt once saw a victim of possesion start speaking in tongues during an ouji board session.

[Sumo7]

I feel that speaking in tongues is connecting with your Higher Self. ...

I see many correlations to metaphysical concepts and experiences to those that are in the bible. I think that alot of these experiences are universal but Christians tend to think that they can only happen to Christians, if they believe they can happen at all (like healing, exorcism, prophecy, etc.).

I find it exciting to be able to correlate things from the bible and my own Christian experiences to things I am learning here. It seems that the true meaning of alot of the scriptures have changed in the interpretation from the original meaning. I find to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" means to be "manifesting your Higher Self". When your Higher Self manifests, there is healing, demons flee, etc. Which in Christian language means the "gifts of the spirit" are in operation.

I feel that Christians in general have lost the knowledge of how to manifest their higher selves. I actually have Christian friends who think it is "of the devil" to go into a trance. Yet this seems to be a prerequisite for the Higher Self manifesting. The bible describes Peter going into a trance and seeing a vision and many other examples of altered states of consciousness. One of my friends is very suspect of me for astral projecing but even Paul had an experience where he didn't know if he was in the body or out of body. John was "in the spirit" on the Lord's day. I strongly believe that these experiences are for all Christians today, but most seem content to warm the pews and ignore the exciting metaphysical side of Christianity that actually gets us closer to God.

I've gone on enough now, would love to hear from more people about this.

Mira

Yes I think we have experienced much of the same thing. I too am doing a great deal of research into the experiences I have had through my Pentecostal background. While I'm not totally classifiable as that name anymore it has certainly given me very strong, positive, metaphysical experiences, which is one reason why I'm posting threads like this.

I would have to agree that much of what we would classify as manifestations of the Spirit are more than just that. Being "filled with the Holy Ghost" has something to do with a major contact with our Higher Selves which is why it produces nearly spontaneous times of "speaking in tongues".

What I'm pondering is... if it is our Higher Selves talking through us, then I guess there is a part of us within our mind and/or spiritual body that already knows virtually limitless numbers of languages and so forth. Beyond that... who knows? The possibilites are so great!

Another thing I am curious would be: if it is our Higher Selves talking then why do the languages specificly speak only in Christian themes for Christians? I have heard numerous stories from ministers who have prayed for people (primarily in other countries) to be filled with the Holy Spirit and the person would speak in English even though they didn't know English. Almost always they are praising God or giving some kind of testimony about Christ. Now that's the stories I've heard from Christians, I'd be curious to know what people of other beliefs are saying in other languages.

Anybody have any thoughts, let's keep talking!

[Sumo7]

I would say people in general are more disconencted to their higher selves ...

BTW- my aunt once saw a victim of possesion start speaking in tongues during an ouji board session.

I have heard of similar stories too, it seems there is a dark side and a light side to just about everything.

When I speak in tongues it sounds literally as if you turned on a foreign language channel. I think I'm speaking some kind of latin/european derivative type language, but again I'm not a linguistics professional so I couldn't tell you all about the structure in detail. I completely agree with you that there are two types though, I think mine is a genuine language... I'm just trying to investigate more into the nature of it. Let's keep talking about this!
Has anyone benefited from this?

Have you sought this gift?

Do you deliberately invoke it?

Does it originate in some sort of trance state?

[Lion]

Sophroniscus has great questions.

At the Pentecaust, people speaking many different languages were able to recieve the Gospel. Remember that cloven tongues of fire (expression for flames?) touched their foreheads, and I have yet to see that occur at the local Pentecostal church or to mystics who claim to be speaking to familiars in their own special language.

In my experience, upon having faith that it is occuring, different languages begin to sound like my own. Having asked for wise words to share, I speak normally, but am heard differently.

Paul instructs against disturbances in the church and advises that it is better for there to be a translator if this is to be edifying to more than the speaker. For Christians, even dancing at the proper time is encouraged (!), but it is Biblically unacceptable to be throwing a fit.

Lion,

You probably wouldn't see the tongues of fire unless you are a clairvoyant. No disrespect intended.

Mira

[Lion]

The author didn't see the tongues of fire until the gift of tongues was upon the prophets.

If the writer was clairvoyant, wouldn't he always see wisps of aura around an ordinary person?

Yes, a clairvoyant would see the aura. It seems something special happened on the day of Pentecost as you know from the book of Acts.

In the Old Testament they would call one who can see into the spiritual realm a "seer".

I know of clairvoyants who can see the chakras and the 12th chakra, in a very spiritual mature person, can look like a tongue of fire about a foot above the head. This is true of Christians as well as non-Christians. I know this can rock the boat of a lot of Christians but to him who has ears to hear, let him hear....

Choa Kok Sui of the Pranic Healing books has written an interesting book called "Meditations for Soul Realization". He feels the "soul" or the "higher self" is located in the 12th chakra, interesting reading.

I believe there are 2 different "tongues". One, the gift (which usually has an interpretation, not a translation) and two, praying to God in tongues, which is praying in the spirit. It seems that the gift would be given as the Holy Spirit sees fit, for the edification of the church (gathering) and praying in tongues can be done at will, praying to God, not necessary to be in a trance but does tend to take you into a trance because your focus is on God. The second types edifies you, personally. When I desire to pray to God in the spirit, I have a sincere desire to talk to God and use my heart to reach out to Him. It feels like my heart is praying and I just open my mouth and let the sounds/words come. You have to make the sounds, not expect to be taken over when you are praying in tongues to God. Now during the gift, there is more of a sense of being taken over by the Holy spirit, note I say "Holy" and this is obvious at the time.

This is my take on things. Seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be opened to you. In the Greek, this is seek and keep seeking, knock and keep knocking. Remember, God's ways are higher than ours (understatement) so we cannot make Him fit into our paradigm. We just have to humbly allow ourselves to be led to the truth/reality.

I have personally cried many tears over having my Christian paradigm smashed over and over but also great joy in finally knowing the truth about some things. I am still a Christian but have come to realize a little about the greater reality and that the Kingdom of God is WITHIN us.

[/i]

[Sumo7]

When I speak in tongues it sounds literally as if you turned on a foreign language channel. I think I'm speaking some kind of latin/european derivative type language, but again I'm not a linguistics professional so I couldn't tell you all about the structure in detail. I completely agree with you that there are two types though, I think mine is a genuine language... I'm just trying to investigate more into the nature of it. Let's keep talking about this!

Has anyone benefited from this?

Have you sought this gift?

Do you deliberately invoke it?

Does it originate in some sort of trance state?

Good questions, for me it began when I was a part of the Pentecostal Christian faith (which I still am, to a degree) and my particular church taught that when you are "filled with the Holy Spirit" during your conversion process then you will begin manifesting tongues as a sign (evidence) that you are filled.

So in a sense we did seek it, like the people on the day of Pentecost in the Book of Acts in the Bible, but it is not our primary focus, the focus is being filled with the Spirit. We would instruct people that wanted to be filled to worship and pray with all their heart and then we would pray with them, sometimes we would even lay hands on them to help transmit what we had and depending on the situation they would get filled within a relatively short period of time.

Now keep in mind that this has been from my perspective and experience and I don't know what it has been like for other people, especially those outside the Pentecostal faith.

In terms of benefits I would encourage you to read the previous posts, when I speak in tongues it feels very wonderful.

Some people can invoke the tongues at will, I can, but not all.

As for a trance state I wouldn't say so, though I imagine it could. For me I want to speak in tongues during worship and/or prayer, which (in a sense) could be an altered state of consciousness but Ive never felt like I've lost my state of equilibrium while speaking in tongues.

I hope that helps share my experience in regard to your questions, I'd be curious what it is like for other people as well.

[Lion]

(I happen to be studying under one of Choa's better known students, and the full text of that book wasn't public, IMO.)

My point was that the description of tongues was made in the real, rather than the clairvoyant, sense.

Lion,

Sorry if I missed your point. As I said, I was giving my take on things (with what I have learned and perceived up until now). The scriptures have taken on a whole new meaning for me now that I understand more esoteric concepts. The Bible is really a very spiritual book, I wish more people would give it a chance.

I would love to hear the part that wasn't in the book by GMCKS, if that is possible for you to reveal. I'm finding out how important it is to never think that one knows everything but to have a teachable attitude. So I would love to hear more.

If the tongues of fire were perceived by everyone, all the more cool!

Mira

At the Pentecaust, people speaking many different languages were able to recieve the Gospel. Remember that cloven tongues of fire (expression for flames?) touched their foreheads, and I have yet to see that occur at the local Pentecostal church or to mystics who claim to be speaking to familiars in their own special language.

In my experience, upon having faith that it is occuring, different languages begin to sound like my own. Having asked for wise words to share, I speak normally, but am heard differently.

Paul instructs against disturbances in the church and advises that it is better for there to be a translator if this is to be edifying to more than the speaker. For Christians, even dancing at the proper time is encouraged (!), but it is Biblically unacceptable to be throwing a fit.
I generally follow the teachings of Saint John of the Cross in such matters. I believe he would say that God often gives men gifts, which may, in fact hurt both them and others. I would think of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, a guru who was able to do wonders, but whose free-sex ashram became a center for criminal activities.

The moral is that one should be careful with what one asks for. There are no real guarantees that one will not fall into self-deception.

I must admit that I've never seen why this might be desirable or useful.

In my experience beings have told me to do things and say things that I did not know why, randomish type things, that after doing them I got the sense that it had somehow proved something about me, good or bad, due to the nature of what I did or said. So speaking in tongues may be one way to help the speaker or other people. Another thing is the bringing of information from one planet to another, or from one mind to another, to create a sort of physical/verbal "witness" that judges something or someone. I believe all things God does to be practical and so therefore I don't believe that the speaking in tongues would be beneficial just to the speaker, I believe it would help others as well.

I'd like to add though that in most cases, especially with truly christ-inspired speech, I doubt that it is harmful to the speaker or anyone else.

That's my take on it.

I must admit that I've never seen why this might be desirable or useful.

In my experience beings have told me to do things and say things that I did not know why, randomish type things, that after doing them I got the sense that it had somehow proved something about me, good or bad, due to the nature of what I did or said. So speaking in tongues may be one way to help the speaker or other people. Another thing is the bringing of information from one planet to another, or from one mind to another, to create a sort of physical/verbal "witness" that judges something or someone. I believe all things God does to be practical and so therefore I don't believe that the speaking in tongues would be beneficial just to the speaker, I believe it would help others as well.

I'd like to add though that in most cases, especially with truly christ-inspired speech, I doubt that it is harmful to the speaker or anyone else.

That's my take on it.
A fuller quotation is in order...

Most Christian religions when they experience "the gift of tongues" are talking about some weird language or nonsensical babbling which spontaneously comes upon them. I must admit that I've never seen why this might be desirable or useful.

I think the operative phrase is "weird language or nonsensical babbling." But even so, Saint Paul allows for interpretation.

When I was a child we went to a Latin liturgy. I hated the idea. Then they went to English. It was a wonderful change.

Since then, I have had time to reflect. I suppose the Holy Spirit was speaking to us through the gift of tongues.

Over the past 20 years I have attended liturgies in Slavonic, Old Syriac (Aramaic -- the language Jesus spoke), Arabic, Greek, Armenian, Spanish, English and even Latin. For the past six months or so, I have been attending a liturgy in Malayalam, the language of Kerala, India.

And God's Holy Spirit has spoken to me in each of those tongues.

When I was a child we went to a Latin liturgy. I hated the idea. Then they went to English. It was a wonderful change.

Since then, I have had time to reflect. I suppose the Holy Spirit was speaking to us through the gift of tongues.

Over the past 20 years I have attended liturgies in Slavonic, Old Syriac (Aramaic -- the language Jesus spoke), Arabic, Greek, Armenian, Spanish, English and even Latin. For the past six months or so, I have been attending a liturgy in Malayalam, the language of Kerala, India.

And God's Holy Spirit has spoken to me in each of those tongues.
And more recently, I have discovered that there is an Ethiopian Church that meets nearby. I am not really sure what language they use. Historically, of course, they used Ge'ez. In any event, their liturgy is quite impressive...

[CFTraveler]

When I was a child we went to a Latin liturgy. I hated the idea. Then they went to English. It was a wonderful change.

Since then, I have had time to reflect. I suppose the Holy Spirit was speaking to us through the gift of tongues.

Over the past 20 years I have attended liturgies in Slavonic, Old Syriac (Aramaic -- the language Jesus spoke), Arabic, Greek, Armenian, Spanish, English and even Latin. For the past six months or so, I have been attending a liturgy in Malayalam, the language of Kerala, India.

And God's Holy Spirit has spoken to me in each of those tongues.
A few years ago (like 20, I'm older than I think) I attended mass given to the children of Medugorge, which happened to be visiting. Before the service, they preached in romanian (I believe) and then had their daily vision. During their speech, I could swear I could understand every word they were saying. People said that it was because romanian and spanish are both romantic languages so have common roots. But I don't understand portugese, that never did wash with me. I always thought that the Holy Spirit was translating for me, or that I had temporarily received (what I thought to be) the gift of tongues.

[ScottF]

First thank you all for this discussion. I prayed about my tongues and the answer i received was that my souls higher self is speaking. Then i asked why and the reply was that it is like a tuning fork to tune us into the God frequency of our higher self. Blessing to all!
Scott

[ButterflyWoman]

Wow, this is a really old thread! It's been silent since before I ever came here (which is probably why I've never seen it).

Just for interest, speaking in tongues (glossolalia) is also very useful for inducing a trance state, much like a mantra. The Apostle Paul was certainly a big fan of it, and he was a pretty metaphysical guy (he also had out of body experiences, amongst other interesting things).