Need some help with the last hurdle to full projection.

[gothpyre]

I have been trying to project consciously for 5 years(not in a row just on and off). As of late I have been serious for the first time since I started. I have been using Robert Monroe's gateway tapes for a while. Anyways I learned the focus 10 from Robert Monroe and I learned most of the other things from Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics. I was so close to projecting I have all the parts down, the deep physical relaxation, the clear mind, the trace techniques, and even the exit techniques. Well I relaxed used focus 10 technique road the escalator down to go deeper into trace. When fully in trace I started to pull the rope and after a few seconds I started to separate from my physical body I felt myself going up and heard a rushing sound. Then my problem started, my heart chakra start to throb really fast. I tried hard to ignore it but it got to be to much so I stopped. My physical heart was also racing. I am not sure if it was the excitement or what that made my heart race. Normally this would not be a problem but I get panic attacks sometimes and that is one of the symptoms so it worried me a little. I know it is a normal exit sensation but my physical heart racing is kind of a problem for me though it did not scare me as it normally does. Though it was enough for me to stop. I'm so close to projecting so can someone please help me, any suggestions are welcome. Thank in advance :D

[Beekeeper]

Gothpyre,

The panic attack history makes it challenging. You've reached the common stage of fear challenge and it's really a matter of persisting.

If it helps, many of us have had that experience and survived it.

[gothpyre]

It wasn't fear for once I stayed calm and tried to work through it. It was just so unconformable it was borderline painfull. I know I can't be the first person to have panic attacks and try to project. By the way my panic attacks are completely random and have know real cause(a rare type). I don't get panic attacks when I am afraid they just come and go randomly. I didn't have a panic attack during the projection attempt. I just want to know the cause of my physical heart racing with my heart chakra and what to do about it.

[Beekeeper]

Sorry to misunderstand. Was your physical heart actually racing, are you sure?

If you're sure it was, and fear wasn't the issue then you may need a check up with your doctor.

[gothpyre]

Yes I checked my pulse. It wasn't as fast as I thought but It was throbbing and defiantly increased in speed.

[Beekeeper]

Sorry, I thought I should add a post rather than edit that one, you got back real fast :lol:

I've had a few panic attacks. One was in Fiji. There was something about the room we were staying in. Soon after I got there, I became overwhelmed and had to open the door and look at the moon. As soon as I did that, my husband basically joined me and said he was having a panic attack.

The other times I was staying at my sister's. I'd wake up in a panic and find my eldest son standing at my bed saying that he felt all weird and wrong. Back home in another state, I fell asleep trying to project to my sister's and that was the only other time I woke up in a panic.

Panic attacks would make an interesting thread, I think.

[gothpyre]

From what I know about panic attacks, they are emotional problems that have physical manifestations. They can be a sense of panic or terror, physical pain in different parts of the body, or muscle spasms(I get a combo of them all). I have only had a couple full blown panic attacks mostly just the random pains. I still don't know if what happened when I tried to project had anything to do with panic attacks. I just want to know what to do so I can finally project. I am so close Ive mastered physical relaxation, and mental clarity. I know the techniques to go into trance(that work for me), so all thats left is to go over this last hurdle. So if you can think of anything to help please do. Thanks for replying to quick.

[Beekeeper]

Could it have been and energy blockage?

[gothpyre]

This just happened 2 hours ago so I want to try to project again as soon as possible. So I am just going to hang around here for a while and hopefully get some help so I can project again.

[gothpyre]

The thought came to mind but I have never had an energy blockage show up so strongly. I get some cobwebs but nothing as dramatic as this or as physical. I know physically my heart is strong and healthy(I was checked out by a doctor).

[Beekeeper]

Rapid heart beat, pounding heart or palpitations
Sweating
Shaking visibly or inside
Choking sensations or lump in throat
Smothering or shortness of breath sensations
Chest pain or discomfort
Nausea, bloating, indigestion or abdominal discomfort
Dizziness or unsteadiness
Feeling light-headed
Derealisation (feeling unreal or dreamy)
Depersonalisation (feeling outside yourself or like you don't exist)
Fear of losing control or going crazy
Paresthesias (numbness or tingling sensations) in face, extremities or body
Chills or hot flushes
Skin losing colour
Blushing or skin blotches
Urgently needing to urinate or defecate
http://www.panic-anxiety.com/panic_attack_symptoms/panic-attack-symptoms.htm#symptoms
Maybe what I experienced doesn't qualify. I had a feeling like I had to run away or I'd suffocate.

[gothpyre]

Thats claustrophobia(fear of closed or small spaces) it can even be of unfamiliar places though it may be another phobia.

[Beekeeper]

I tend a little towards claustrophobia. Not much but a little.

[Beekeeper]

I think it may have been an empathic reaction with my son and husband in both cases.

[gothpyre]

I have checked and I don't feel one. I am psychicly empathic(clarsenses) which means I can feel others emotions so it would be odd to have a block edge so near my mid dan tien(upper energy storage center in Chinese spirituality). Im not proficient in unblocking energy paths, they normally work themselves out as I do energy work.

[gothpyre]

Thats something I totally get. Being one of the rare male empaths I get alot of that type of stuff from my mom. I feel her physical pains sometimes.

[Beekeeper]

I'm judging from "Gothpyre" that you're a youngun. Is your heart healthy?

[Beekeeper]

Have you read?
http://www.astraldynamics.com/search.asp?Search=empathy&Type=1&ReferenceID=509

[gothpyre]

Yes Im 21, and like I said in my other post I got checked out by a doctor when my panic attacks started. I went to the doctor to make sure my heart was healthy. The doctor said my heart was healthy and had perfect rhythm. I also get my lungs and my blood work done. They were all perfect(his words not mine). So health is not an issue.

[gothpyre]

Yes I have read that before and it helped a lot. Why is it there are so few male empaths(born empaths not learned).

[Beekeeper]

Sorry, we're posting so quickly, I missed it.

Well, I'm stumped but someone more helpful might come in with an insight. How you proceed is up to you. You know your heart is healthy and you are unlikely to come to harm. You've come a long way already and there's nothing to say that your next experience would be the same.

Good luck with it. :) Don't forget to let us know if you succeed.

[gothpyre]

Thanks for trying to help, it means a lot you took the time to try. I just hope someone with panic attacks who successfully projected can help me so I can finally project. I know its hard to help someone when you have not fully experience what they have, but just talking to you was a really nice.

[Beekeeper]

Yes I have read that before and it helped a lot. Why is it there are so few male empaths(born empaths not learned).

I don't know if they're really that few and far between.

It could be an X chromosone y chromosone thing I suppose or evolutionary. Perhaps empathy was more key to female survival and reproduction while other things took precedence with male survival. I could see how too much empathy could impact a hunter, for instance.

It's socialisation too. From the time we're babies, girls are kept closer. Perhaps this is conducive to empathy development or maybe it's biologically predisposed because we carry human beings inside us when we're pregnant.

I've read somewhere the suggestion that, as a generalisation, women are physically yin but spiritually yang and men are the opposite. It's a thought.

[gothpyre]

It could be the incarnated spirit that caries psychic abilities from on life to the next. I always felt that I was mostly if not always female in my past lives. I think this is my first life as a male(not that I think I am supposed to be female or anything, just thats what I was). Its the only theory I can think of that fits most cases but I am always willing to be proven wrong.

Like I said I was born empathic, it caused me to be antisocial and to shut down my own emotions for many years till I figured out what it was. So I would take environment out of the equation. I can remember feeling other peoples feeing as young as 5.

[gothpyre]

Sorry to get off topic but thanks. If anyone has any help to offer about the topic I started, please post, I will take all the help I can get.

[Beekeeper]

Since you started the thread, getting off topic is your prerogative. :wink:

[CFTraveler]

Well, heart chakra strobing is an exit sensation that I get a lot. I too am empathic, (which as you know is problematic), and I wonder if empathic people get out that way more than others- anyway, it sounds like you're not afraid of the symptom, since your heart is healthy. I suggest you do not do rope until you feel the strobing, and instead concentrate on 'swinging your energy body' (imagine the heart strobe as a vibration, a wave, and you want to 'catch the wave' as in bodysurfing)- let me tell you why I think this will help:
I think that 'rope' is an exit method that probably involves the heart chakra (from the physical way that it is used- this is my opinion, of course) and you can use something else, like 'rocking' or 'wave surfing' which will deflect your attention from your heart sensations and not miss the exit at the same time.
I hope this was somewhat helpful.

[gothpyre]

I considered using another method but the rope method works so well and so fast but I guess it doesn't hurt to try something else. Does you physical heart beat faster and harder when you try to project. Is it an empath thing. How did you get past this.

[CFTraveler]

I don't get past it. I embrace it, since it's a way to know that I'm about to exit. Once you project and have adventures and come back, you will lose the fear/apprehension. The unknown is scarier than the experience, and getting away from your body makes the sensations go away.

[gothpyre]

So my physically racing heart will not prevent me from exiting. Like I said in my previous post I was not scared its just that it was almost painful like a panic attack and does the other methods have the same effect when exiting.

[CFTraveler]

It won't stop you, if anything, it's a marker that your energy body is 'dislocating' from your physical body. In traditional circles, the explanation would be that your heart chakra is generating your astral body or you're getting out of that chakra. Whatever the explanation is, sometimes the heart chakra is involved, and sometimes the vibrations are concentrated in other places, or the exit doesn't involve them.

ps. When I said 'fear/apprehension', in your case I meant 'stopping to wonder if you're having a panic attack' and missing the exit opportunity. (I should have used 'distraction'). :wink:

[gothpyre]

So what your saying is that my heart chakra is affecting my physical body and to project I just need to ride it out(so to speak) till Im fully projected.

[CFTraveler]

Yep.

I'm empathic, or extremely "sensitive" as well. Some people are just more aware and sensitive of sensations. I had the same problem in the beginning, I would get excited knowing I was close to an exit and not only would my excitement manifest physically ( increased heartbeat/blood pressure, etc ) but I would let my excitement and awareness of physical reactions distract me and I'd "abort" the exit.

I would suggest two approaches, you can learn to see it as a sign that exit is about to occur, but condition yourself NOT to have the excitement, or emotional response to exit sensations, or you can convince yourself that it's heart chakra activity and go on with the exit rather than stopping and checking your heart rate. I have done the same, and my heart rate was only slightly elevated. The thing about being in a trance is, while it can have dissociative effects at the same time it amplifies all your physical senses so things (even your heartbeat) seem more intense.

One other thing, although it's best to avoid becoming dependent on environmental variables, is you can play some relaxing, repetitive music that doesn't distract you. Usually this music will be enough to distract you slightly from physical sensations, when you're trancing in silence it is easy to focus on and be distracted physical sensations.

Are you positive you're completely relaxed, especially in your torso? I would suggest during whatever relaxation technique you use, you emphasize and go over the solar plexus area and make sure you're relaxing your chest completely.

It's important that you overcome the way you react to the sensation early on, or you may ingrain the abort response to exit sensations and it will become harder for you to overcome. If it's not a matter of fear then it's a matter of mental discipline, in not letting your intent of projection be distracted by anything.

[gothpyre]

I used music in the past but in Robert Bruce's book Astral Dynamics he said to stay away from music as it is a crutch. I use Robert Monroes focus 10 to do my physical relaxation, but I will work on relaxing even more. Maybe it was my increased sensitivity that caused me to become more aware of my heart beat, and it seemed it was ponding when infact it may just be more noticable to the trance state. I will try again and see how it goes. Thanks for your help.

[Aunt Clair]

I agree. Newbies often begin with guided meditations which are narrated all the way through . This is fine if it is necessary to begin . Later, soft music is used to conclude a guided meditation instead .

The teacher will begin a guided meditation take the student to a core image either in imagination or in mystic projection to actually attain the realm . When the students are there the teacher will put on soft new age style music .
Then music alone is used but perhaps there is a voiceover at the very beginning . But eventually , silent meditation is learned and it is much more effective .

So if a student can eliminate the need for music early on they can progress faster . If it does not work , fall back to music . Sound does help to relax and sound can be used to increase vibration . 3 aumms , mantras , crystal bowl waves and Tibetan Singing Bowls can be very effective when followed by silent meditation .

When the vibration is increased , then the projection is easier .

When possible try to meditate in a group . At the end of the meditation , each person gives off what they see and feel in a round robin fashion . If you can learn to enter a meditative trance and attain the projection but concurrently bi locate consciousness , you will be able to see where the subtle body has projected and use your physical body to describe what you sense there . Then in a seminar fashion each member of the circle gives off what they see . In this way you can project together and share .

Tibetan Singing Bowls are awesome. I also wanted to mention, that music can sometimes be too distracting for some people. A better way to distract your senses during "silent" meditation might be to use white noise, like a tv with the volume turned down on low tuned to a channel with static, or the sound of a fan. This might work better for some people than music, which can be more distracting, while white noise tends to soothe the senses rather than excite them.

[CFTraveler]

I like white noise & static. I find it soothing. It sort of reminds me of the sound of the shower going.

[gothpyre]

I like the sound of Hemi-Sync not just for its aid in synchronizing hemispheres but I just like the sound of it. I still try to stay away from it its a bit to easy to get reliant on it and I don't want that to happen.

[Korpo]

gothpyre, you do not need to fear getting reliant on hemi-sync, at least not if you work at it like I did.

First you induce a Focus with hemi-sync. You reproduce it some times, entraining your brain finding that state again with the cues (=counting) given. This is a self-hypnosis thing. Then you start training using the cues only (=counting yourself into Focus 10 without headphones on) to reproduce the states. Over time it works quite well.

Hemi-sync is an entrainment tool - you can take what you learn there and remove the need for the signal. It does not induce the experience alone, it guides you on inducing it, and you can do that on your own. It's both a signpost and an "example" of what to expect. I found it very helpful. :)

Oliver

[gothpyre]

I simply love Monroes Gateway series. Nothing has worked as well for me as focus 10 did. I also have great success in breathing in thinking of 10 then out 10. I admit I have not made it past focus 10(meaning I have not listened past focus 10). I got such good results inducing the state on my own after listening only 2 times I wanted to try to project on my own without going farther in to the tapes. Should I go on with the tapes or keep trying on my own. Also the astral noise is crazy its like thousands of people talking at one all yelling at each other and arguing. I don't have a problem getting past the astral noise but the racing heart is still my biggest hurdle. DO you think going farther in the tapes will help or should I just push through on my own.

[Korpo]

Hmm, I don't like the sound of "pushing". ;) Be gentle with yourself.

I do not know about the voices - these things are different for everyone, and maybe you are tuning into a mind-frequency a lot of people's consciousnesses work on? Monroe called it the M-Band I think, and for the time being, I would just ignore that. :)

There's actually no harm continuing with the exercises, especially for projection. I personally found that Focus 12 felt "looser" than Focus 10, so you don't have to "push". I think Focus 12 actually can make it quite easy to enter the "2nd body state", so an exit should be easier then.

There's nothing to worry about trying out the later tapes. The worst thing that can happen is nothing. ;) I tried around with Focus 10-15 and nothing bad happened at all, though results were a bit "wobbly". You can actually compare notes then for the different states and look what differences you find. It can help in understanding Focus 10 better. It takes quite some training to reproduce Focus 15 without the signal, I'd assume, as my grip on it was shaky even with the signal.

There's nothing to lose in "peeking ahead", except if you have not bought the further Gateway Waves yet - Focus 12 is a pretty good thing, and as I said - the worst thing that can happen is nothing at all.

Good progress!
Oliver

[gothpyre]

I got the whole gateway series I think there a lot of them. Could the thousand of voices talking at one thing have something to do with me being an empath. Maybe I am just experiencing the same way I would if I were in a full stadium and I feel all the emotion of the people there all at once(its an experience that cant be explained unless you are an empath so I won't try, but if you are an empath then you know how overwhelming"big understatement" it is). Its just a thought but it did not bother me to much. I am a visual and sensing type person so sound does not affect me the same way as others I suppose. The throbing heart chakra is my only real hurdle but I am getting used to it little by little.

[yhorke]

Hmm... this thread has helped me a little bit.

Thank you for posting, guys and gals.

I'm having the same problem (as I'm sure many many are having also, possibly right at this moment), only I have not had any past with panic attacks.

I sway, I drift, a computer screen or something random pops into my sight and pops out again, and I snap into a very deep buzzing.

I sway about for a few minutes there, then try my best to pull off the ROPE technique. It's difficult to accomplish, but when I do, I immediately start buzzing, my heart beats louder, my hearing goes dull, and my vision seems to open up beneath my eyelids.

I say in my head GO! GO! GO! and imagine a person at the edge of my bed beckoning me to go with them. I become disoriented for a few seconds, then I come to. My heart beats more quiet, the vibrations cease, and I go back into trance.

It's a huge bummer. I may be trying to ROPE too early. Swaying up and down, left and right, works well though.

Any tips you guys can give me to help me get over the proverbial hump?

[gothpyre]

I'm so glad I'm not alone with this problem. I started this thread in hopes that I and others with panic attacks could get help. I'm hopeing someone with our problem got over this and can help us.

[yhorke]

well, i've certainly never had a panic attack before.

i just need help with timing and techniques. tonight was the closest i've ever come before

[CFTraveler]

Hmm... this thread has helped me a little bit.

Thank you for posting, guys and gals.

I'm having the same problem (as I'm sure many many are having also, possibly right at this moment), only I have not had any past with panic attacks.

I sway, I drift, a computer screen or something random pops into my sight and pops out again, and I snap into a very deep buzzing.

I sway about for a few minutes there, then try my best to pull off the ROPE technique. It's difficult to accomplish, but when I do, I immediately start buzzing, my heart beats louder, my hearing goes dull, and my vision seems to open up beneath my eyelids.

I say in my head GO! GO! GO! and imagine a person at the edge of my bed beckoning me to go with them. I become disoriented for a few seconds, then I come to. My heart beats more quiet, the vibrations cease, and I go back into trance.

It's a huge bummer. I may be trying to ROPE too early. Swaying up and down, left and right, works well though.

Any tips you guys can give me to help me get over the proverbial hump? I feel if you are swaying already rope is not necessary- when you hear the buzz and are swaying try to 'throw yourself' in the direction of the sway- like catching a wave. The swaying indicates to me you're already loose, and just need that 'little push' out.
Rope is very good at externalizing your energy body, but if tried repeatedly with no results, you can get used to 'not going out' with it- then I recommend a more dynamic approach, taking advantage of your 'looseness'- like swaying, rocking, or just imagining you're jumping in a pool or catching a wave- something that takes your attention far ahead of where your body is.

[yhorke]

So would you recommend, while I'm feeling the swaying, I use the water ski technique?

EDIT: Your answer to that was already in your last post. My fault.

[star]

I nearly had a fit the last time I almost conciously projected. Really, that must be what death feels like. I loved it, the paralysis and the feeling of my "spirit" (Ethric copy) leaving my body. Had I not been paralized I would have sat straight up in bed and screamed like a girl!

We can over come our difficulties though. It just takes repeated approaches sometimes.