Some interesting questions

[master ninja]

This is a relatively lengthy post.

I am 22 years old.
I have had around 5 obes since 2003.

A few nights ago, I met an interesting individual who claimed to be extremely proficient and knowledgable in the nature of the astral planes/realms.

He made some seemingly outrageous claims, and I found many inconsistencies in his ways of thinking and his logic/philosophy.

While many things he said held value, such as the agreed nature/principles of the mind/realms/etc (realms are made of collective thought, thought is power, etc.)....he said some things that I feel need validation by more scientific and clear headed peers.

For example; I described a realm I visited to him, and he immediately said it was a realm called "flip world". This struck me as strange, knowing that...with pretty strong belief...that there are infinite realms....and for me to just describe the entities and surroundings there...he would just know...it is too weird. He also claimed this "flip world" had laws that everything was opposite, so if someone said something nice, it was really mean. I didn't seem to pick up on this. Anyone have an opinion on this??

He also said the names of realms are given to him as he enters these realms....

He also says there are "elders", and that he has been asked to become an elder, but to do so, he must give up everyone's previous knowledge of him, his body, etc.....He doesn't want to do this....these elders are like the ultimate end, in a sense, to him. He feels he has reached one of the highest points in existence. He describes these elders as having emotions somewhat, and being fickle....not directly, but that is what I picked up. How can these elders be so high if that is what they deal with??


This man is 30 years old. He looks young. He was raped as a child at the age of 10 and then left to die, as he says, hanging in a pillowcase. He says this is when he first experienced OBE states...it was so traumatic he just accidentally left his body. He was once an alcoholic. From what I know, he doesn't have any sort of education beyond high school. He works at a waffle house.

He gave me advice, saying ego is bad, zen stuff, etc.....then says he has this "playful self" that goes against all these principles he just told me....in the end of his lecture, he says "its your choice".

I believe him to a degree about the realms, but not much. Any opinions are greatly appreciated.

I realize this may be a bit difficult to absorb...please ask questions, good discussions will come of this!



:)

[journyman161]

My advice is stick with what you know & don't accept other's claims if they make you feel at all uncomfortable or if you feel he is big-noting himself. Many people claim knowledge they don't have just to impress & some are VERY good at reading your reactions to adjust what they say so as not to put you offside.

You are the best evaluator of what you experience - his reality is only true for him - & that's if he's telling you his reality at all & not just feeding you a line.

[Korpo]

I want to add that someone who carries such details of his most private experiences on the tip of the tongue is not necessarily beyond trauma, but trapped within it. Then he cannot be trusted.

If you had the feeling of a deeply spiritual air about him, and a good feeling that you can trust him, then this claims to greatness could be accepted. If not, then you are right to doubt. :)

I do not exclude the possibility of all this, but in the astral the mind can produce the things the sometimes twisted ego wants to see. Your truth is yours, it is very individual. Make your own experiences and make up your own mind. I see you are already doing this, so continue. :)

Take good care,
Oliver

[CFTraveler]

A couple of things:
First of all, there are all kinds of theories that describe what we experience when we go out of body. I do not like the word 'explain' because they are subjective experiences, and though I've validated a few of my own, that doesn't mean that a theory should be taken exclusively as the explanation for everything.
There is one theory (the 'many worlds hypothesis' in quantum physics) that basically postulates that every decision creates a world of possibillities. You're faced with A or B, you pick B, B becomes your reality from now on (until the next decision moment) but A has become a reality 'somewhere else', but here only a probability that didn't happen. There is another (mathematical) theory that says that anything possible will happen in eternity. In other words, if there is such thing as eternity, everything possible will happen. At some point. Of course, these theories presuppose a lot and we tend to take them as givens. But let's just say that they're both correct? For kicks and giggles, let's suppose that there are all kinds of worlds that people have dreamed up, and let's just say that 'a physical world that is opposite from this one' could be created. My question is- would it work? If you could reverse all the physical laws, I'm almost sure that that type of existence would not be physically possible in the way that we think is opposite. Of course, not being a physicist, I can't say that for certain.
Now for the other statement that concerns me:
When you have an OBE or AP or whatever you want to call it- You have to realize that the reality we immerse ourselves in is processed and given back to us to perceive by our subconscious mind, and our subconscious mind can't tell the difference from an observation, memory, dream or other input. It just sees what it sees and shows it to you in a way that makes sense to it. If you grew up reading Superman comics (I'm thinking Bizarro superman here), your idea of a world with 'opposite' characteristics as this one may be different than Stephen Hawkings' perspective of a possible world with 'opposite' characteristics. I'm pretty sure that if SH and I were to project into the selfsame astral locale at the same time, we both would come back with entirely different stories.
So just because someone told you something is 'like this', even if they are convinced this is the truth, take it with a grain of salt, and acknowledge their experience for what it is- their experience.

[master ninja]

Thank you. Thank you both for your time to write that. I am basically feeling the same way....it just perplexes me that someone can say that the astral has these "laws" and "maps", yet at the same time say that time and space are irrelevant....

But yes, I agree. I believe this man's own perceptions and self are affecting his experiences to a very high degree, although he implies the opposite.

He claims he is not trying to say he is great or anything....talking zen and no self and how self hurts you....but then he has this "playful self", full of ego, full of superficiality and gunk that would make anyone go crazy, and he says he just simply "likes this"...etc...etc.....totally contradicting what he said before.

So really, I think he is trying to say he is great, in a supressed, almost subconscious way, for I believe he didn't have much ego satisfaction growing up, etc.

Confusing...I know. But in the end, he says "its your choice"....whatever.

I don't think this man is familiar with such terms like subjective and objective....I know those words would help more to explain in terms of what CFT traveler wrote...I need to bring that up to him the next time, the second time I see him.