spirits of small animals

[bmercury]

I've recently had a mouse put down and another one within the next week waits the same fate.
they both had tumours, they both went for surgery to have the lump removed unfortunately it came back, as there is not much else I can do, I have to have them put down when the tumour start to cause problems. I'm still not fully recovered from the last mouse and now it's happening to my other one, it seriously cutting me up inside.
most people don't care they say it's only a mouse then they start moaning at me for how much to pay for the operations.
but it's my mouse they mean everything to me.
do small animals such as mice have spirits and do they go to the same place as dogs or cats.
and has anyone here ever seen a spirit of such animals.
thanks

[CFTraveler]

Pets are very important in our lives, and sometimes we love them as much as the rest of our family. I'm sorry about your mice- I have a friend that has one and she is very smart. (Her name is Lucy). I'm not sure why the tumor things happen- I had three dogs and two of them (the same breed) developed tumors in their heads- luckily they lived a full life expectancy, but why both? Many scientists think that some forms of cancer (they certainly know it's a fact for some) are caused by viruses, which could explain why more than one. The breed (or sub-breed, in your case) could have a genetic predisposition also. I will say a prayer for your pet.

ps. I don't see why mice couldn't have a spirit- IMO, if it's alive, it has a spirit, because the spirit is life. Just MO. I have seen my deceased dogs in projection, and one of my live cats, for whatever comfort that gives you.

[bmercury]

thanks CFTraveler.
it does bring some comfort knowing that.
mice are very prone to tumours, and with my two is genetic they both are sisters.
it must have been very wonderful seeing spirits of your animals I hope I'll will be able to see the spirits of mine one day..

[wstein]

Two mice have thoughtfully gone through a great deal of effort to give their lives for you in this dramatic way. Have you considered what the message might be?

Perhaps you are holding onto something that is festering and would be better off let go?


----
PS ALL living things have spirits of some kind.

[journyman161]

Two mice have thoughtfully gone through a great deal of effort to give their lives for you in this dramatic way. Have you considered what the message might be?

Perhaps you are holding onto something that is festering and would be better off let go?


----
PS ALL living things have spirits of some kind.bmercury, it is a sign of your quality that you feel this way. Love is a feeling that crosses all boundaries & knows no limits.

wstein
Yeeeew... way to show depth of sympathy...

Why should it be anything to do with bmercury that a pet dies? If they are spirit, they are living their own lives in this realm & experiencing their own path. bmercury's path may have been to love them before they return to source.

Surely the enlightened can do a better job than laying the death of loved ones at the door of those who love? Such comment shows (to me) a lack of feeling for fellow spirit.

[Beekeeper]

J'man, I think wstein was simply putting another spin on it. Without denying that the mice follow their own path, he was perhaps suggesting that their presence also offered something in the way of a lesson about life and death. This is a lesson we must all learn and develop a healthy response to, I guess.

Bmercury, I love animals too and it's awful to see them suffer. It doesn't matter if the animal is large or small, we can form an attachment to it and I think that's a spiritual thing.

The average lifespan of a mouse is three years. Could yours have just been old perhaps?

I believe strongly that animals have souls. My sister often saw the spirit of her little Jack Russell in the months after it died.

[wstein]

I'm a great follower of 'coincidence'. It seemed to me that the same thing was about to happen again in a short space of time. Often (not always) coincidence is a message. Unfortunately the messenger is not always pleasant.

Although I'm not sure I entirely agree, it has been suggested that some of 'us' (includes various lifeforms) agree to come to provide lessons for others in whatever form is necessary for learning. Sometimes this means coming to die at a timely moment.

[Wrong Eye]

I fully believe everything has a spirit, from plants to animals to humans to other beings, and that this life is meant for loving one another. "I love, therefore I am".

Your mice and you loved one another, for a very long time it seems like, and in that space of time you became very close.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that can separate two beings once that bond of love has been formed. Nothing will ever allow them to say "goodbye" completely, for to say goodbye is to break that bond, and from what I understand of love, goodbye is never an option.

When I lost people, either from leaving or through death, I have never been able to say "goodbye" and I have to believe it is only a temporary absence- for if you are constantly loving and forming heart- and soul-bonds and then having to say goodbye, that is a senseless and utterly hopeless existence. I do not subscribe to that kind of nonsense.

I believe love is eternal. I believe it is our purpose in life.

Don't lose hope and know you are always connected so you never have to say "goodbye".

(And in writing that, I know I have found my own sort of peace... funny how these things work.)

[bmercury]

thanks for your kind replies.
The tumour has got a lot worse now unfortunately I'm unable to do anything more ,she has gone to the vets to get put to sleep. I'm so gutted its feels like someone stabbing me in the heart and twisting the blade.
making the decision to have the animal put down can be the most hardest things you can ever make, and you will always wonder what is it the right choice.
I draw comfort form what people have said on this forums and my personal beliefs and experiences.
The Celtic people used to believe you should not mourn the death of someone but it's the time of celebrating for the departed as being reborn into other life.

[!CCDMN!]

I've seen spirits of animals many times when projecting and I am quite certain that even small animals kept as pets can be met in astral/RTZ after they die. Recently during an OOBE I saw a pair of zebra finches (a bird similar to sparrow) that I kept as pets until eight years ago. I completely forgot how their call sounds and couldn't figure out what makes that sound until I saw them.
I wonder if wild animals have some kind of afterlife too, or an emotional attachement is needed...

[Aroris Boreala]

As far as I can tell, all the little animals have distinct spirits. Some of them seem to be more "awake" then others in that sense, but they do all seem to have spirits.

[CFTraveler]

I'm sorry for your loss, bmercury, even if it's temporary.

[RyanParis]

Considering I've astral projected, there is no reason in the world that every creature (and maybe every object) wouldn't have an astral body. If people have astral bodies (which they do) than so do animals, insects, etc. I couldn't imagine someone arguing otherwise, unless they are arguing from a certain religious view that says only people have souls.

[TheLawOfOne]

bmercury, i understand exactly how you feel, I've had mice and rats as pets and just like all other animals they are very intelligent. People just don't see that though. One question, do you line the cages with newspaper? If so, this could be causing the tumors due to the ink.

As far as the astral bodies, people have reported seeing animals in the astral world. My belief is that everything is growing in terms of consciousness, even rocks and trees. They are just not at our level yet. And pets come into our lives to learn consciousness from us and that we may learn from them.

[eyeoneblack]

This is too weird. :shock: I didn't even know this thread existed when I wrote my post in 'Word', then I go look for a place to put it. Well, check it out. 8)

Was that! a ghost?

I've been trying? hoping wishing I would finally see an apparition so two nights ago I get up flip the light on in the restroom and I feel something brush/tickle my arm. I glance around and see this 'thing' whiz (no pun intended) down the hall and disappear into the kitchen.

It was gray and about the size of a rat, but it was not on the floor, but about shoulder high. Of course, I looked in the kitchen but didn't expect to find anything.

Not what I had in mind of a ghost, but could it have been one? I'll have to mention that this baby opossum has been wondering around in the house at night. Mighty strange, a single baby ‘possum nosin’ around. I really oughta’ close that pet door. But ‘possums don’t fly and if they did not that fast.

Whatever, I think it was otherworldly...

[CFTraveler]

Do you have cats? I get times when my cats play with invisible critters, and sometimes I can almost 'see' them- something about being seen brings them out. So maybe it's something like that.

[Sinera]

I think everything has spirit, but there are differences as to complexity and personal evolution. A human has a more complex "soul" than an animal. I don't know if animal souls can step up the ladder of soul evolution and become human souls - which means that our own soul has possibly gone through the animal phase and other "kingdoms" (plants, minerals...) before. Some esoteric theories (and also Robert Monroe) write sth in this direction. Alternatively, they stay within their group consciousness and evolve there (as a group or individually).

Many mediums can also speak to gone pets. Astral projectors often see pets' astral bodies in the Astral, some even say they can "talk" to them. It is only logical for me to assume that animals have souls.

And there might be persisting bonds possibly. Michael Newton writes about consistent accounts from many of his his regressed hypnotised subjects reporting on specialists in the afterlife that can bring together human souls and the animals they had bonded with in previous lifes (it is because every species seems to have its own "realm" and thus a connection is not immediate).

One personal story of a bond of an animal within a family - my family - as it happened, is this:

We had a nice kitty named Susy in the nineties. My mother had a strong bond to her (like to all animals before actually). When our cat got terminally ill there was a time of a few hours when it lay there visibly and audibly suffering hard pain, wailing all the time, which must have been terrible to watch for any bystander. The vet was not in reach during these moments so hardly anything could be done. My mother was suffering too, naturally, crying most of the time.

At last, when witnessing the bad suffering of our cat - which did not die then but only later was put down by a vet - got almost unbearable for my mother, she prayed (cried in prayer to be more exact) to her own mother (my grandmother) who had died many years before then, to finally "take her (Susy) to her (Granny)" to deliver the poor cat from the pain.

Now this is what happened immediately next (I was told the story, no one else accept my mother was present when it happened):
There was an 'explosive' noise coming from another room, the kitchen. A "poltergeist phenomenon" if you like. A small glass tray on the kitchen sink burst violently and very loud into pieces. My mother showed me the shards of glass which she kept: they looked strange. I don't know how any physicist might explain the process, but many of the glass pieces were round, not sharp, almost in marble-like forms. Really strange.

Now there is two relevant facts about the glass tray:
1. It was the the tray where the prepared food for our cat was put (Suzy's tray, so to speak).
2. It was a significant 'heirloom' from our grandmothers kitchen inventory (Granny's tray, so to speak).

The connection is easily to make, the sign becomes clear. My mother was convinced it was a sign. I wasn't at the time because I thought there might still be alternative explanations. Something like: Old glass vessels like this are prone to shatter, or maybe it is psi-related , but still differently: telekinesis caused by my mother due to emotional stress. I also thought that a "poltergeist" action like that would not be really an "elegant" thing from my granny. Smashing things, hey c'mon, what kind of display of bad manners is this? Not granny's style. :wink: .

Today, of course, I think differently about it. I'm now convinced that my Grandmother "did it" (with help possibly). The "choice" of the double-significant glass tray is perfect for the message - and thus convincing to me. And why should it burst into hundreds of strange pieces exactly at THAT moment when my mother prayed TO HER and FOR THE CAT?

Maybe Granny "did it" more for her daughter than for the cat, because she could not stand the suffering of my mother, thereby telling her "It's okay, sweetheart, I take care of Suzy, don't worry, really, she'll be fine".

I know it sounds corny and naive now, but I think our Suzy is/has bonded with us. She's with Granny now.
So it - literally - "runs in the family". :roll: (bad pun I admit)
I will see her again. :)

[TheLawOfOne]

Edgar Cayce gave a reading once where a woman asked if her little dog had been involved with her in a past life. Cayce replied that the dog fought with her in the Roman times, but the little dog was actually a lioness. She asked if her dog will always be a dog and Cayce replied no, it depends on the environment. The lady also asked if they could get a life reading on the dog, Cayce replied yes, but that it may not be understood unless you learned dog language.

[eyeoneblack]

Do you have cats? I get times when my cats play with invisible critters, and sometimes I can almost 'see' them- something about being seen brings them out. So maybe it's something like that.

Yes, have many cats. Well, they're not anybody else's so I reckon they're mine. I've been a sanctuary for feral cats for many years - feed 'em, let 'em hang around. I've woken up with a new cat in bed! "Well, Hello, who are you?"

Seems cats just like my energy/sympathy and I like their attitude. Many people don't - it's a higher consciousness thing. Dogs - anybody with a heart loves a dog - got to; but cats relate on higher ground. No essay on that now.

Tim's story of losing his cat just broke my heart. I had a cat like that, got run over when he was still young. Problem is my cats are street cats - if you can't make it on the streets, sorry. My cats would never think of diving into Narnia, they always calculate a route out. But my Gig was innocent like yours and that's why I felt so betrayed by God to have lost him to a stupid motorist.

I cried for days.

Anyway, back to the point, I watch them watch a point in the ceiling - totally facinated and wonder what in the hell they see. :lol:

Richarde

[TheLawOfOne]

Do you have cats? I get times when my cats play with invisible critters, and sometimes I can almost 'see' them- something about being seen brings them out. So maybe it's something like that.

Yes, have many cats. Well, they're not anybody else's so I reckon they're mine. I've been a sanctuary for feral cats for many years - feed 'em, let 'em hang around. I've woken up with a new cat in bed! "Well, Hello, who are you?"

Seems cats just like my energy/sympathy and I like their attitude. Many people don't - it's a higher consciousness thing. Dogs - anybody with a heart loves a dog - got to; but cats relate on higher ground. No essay on that now.

Tim's story of losing his cat just broke my heart. I had a cat like that, got run over when he was still young. Problem is my cats are street cats - if you can't make it on the streets, sorry. My cats would never think of diving into Narnia, they always calculate a route out. But my Gig was innocent like yours and that's why I felt so betrayed by God to have lost him to a stupid motorist.

I cried for days.

Anyway, back to the point, I watch them watch a point in the ceiling - totally facinated and wonder what in the hell they see. :lol:

Richarde


I agree, I have cats too and it seems to me that intellectuals and philosophers and such are more drawn to cats than everyday practical people.

[newfreedom]

I like Robert Shapiro's view on 'Who animals are' anyone here familiar with Roberts work ?
His book 'Animal Souls Speak' was a beautiful book to read, i loved it :D

Here's a link to his section on Animals http://explorerrace.blogspot.com/search/label/Animals

[GRANT]

They are still alive, they've only shed their bodies.
Grant

[Reverie]

They are still alive, they've only shed their bodies.
Grant

I agree.

When my cat Lucky was dying (from a heart attack, I believe), he actually seemed to be trying to jump out the front of his body. He strained and strained, and then heaved forward and simultaneously kicked his hind legs out behind him. Immediately after that his body collapsed to the floor, and seemed very much like a one-piece costume that had been taken off and discarded.

I witnessed all this, as I had been kneeling on the floor lightly stroking him to offer some comfort, even though I was also horrified to see him in such pain. After seeing all this, I felt that he was still around but free of the body, and no longer in pain.

In the years that followed, I'd often see, out the corner of my eye, something black on the floor near where Lucky's bed used to be, but when I turned to look, I wouldn't see anything. I also occasionally heard the sound of Lucky coming down my creaky wooden stairs. He had been a large cat and made a noticeable sound when he came down the stairs. One day, about 3 years after he passed, I heard the sound on the stairs and distractedly turned to look (I had been engrossed in something on my PC)...and I saw his spirit. I watched totally mesmerized as the grayish, translucent figure of a large cat casually made its way down the steps. As he passed behind the large end post where I had a coat hanging, I lost sight of him. And that was it. He'd disappeared before hopping down to the landing.

I believe Lucky making himself visible that one time was a gift to me before he moved onwards, as that was the last time there was any indication he was still in the house.

[Beekeeper]

But he'll greet you with other family members and friends when you pass over. :redface:

[GRANT]

I've seen several of my dogs spirits. They've also, at times, ran about the house being heard; but, not seen. They've jumped on me, also.
I watched one of my dogs project while I was projecting. We both played and flown around together along with some of her astral animal friends.
If animals can project, then (even if only by default), they have a spirit, as do we!
Grant

[Beekeeper]

If animals can project, then (even if only by default), they have a spirit, as do we!

Totally agree but even if we didn't see them projecting, I'd still think they have spirit simply because they have such feeling.

[GRANT]

I appears that we (most) humans associate a spirit with intelligence. We are taught that "they're only dumb animals". I personally believe that everything has a spirit. They say monkeys are smart. Well actually, they are not really. They are good at copying. Dogs are smarter than a monkey; as a matter of fact they used dogs as the first "astronauts". The dogs problem is that they don't have hands. I've listened to an English geneticist wanting to ask England's govt. to allow him to grow a dog with hands; which he claims is possible.

I guess my point is, even though a life form may appear insignificant, it still has a spirit--it has nothing to do with its body. It is a spirit form contained in a body. Once the body is shed, its mind (spirit) is free. Even most humans do not believe in our (they're) spirit; but, yet we who know, when we project are at a much higher level of understanding that the body is just a body.

Maybe if our spirit was in, say, the body of a bug of some sort, our physical mind would think that we could only do bug stuff; but, once that body is either shed or projected out of, the mind can see that there is other things out there to learn.

In short, a mouse can only do mouse stuff because it is limited by its body; but, once it dies or projects its spirit (mind) is free to do whatever it wants or thinks it can do. Just as we cannot fly, until we either die or project.

Grant

[Beekeeper]

On the intelligence of animals: I think every animal is highly intelligent because every animal is highly adapted to the life it leads. Humans are very human-centric when we judge these things.

I agree with your comments, Grant.

[CFTraveler]

On the intelligence of animals: I think every animal is highly intelligent because every animal is highly adapted to the life it leads. Humans are very human-centric when we judge these things.

I agree with your comments, Grant. I may steal this one day.

[sono2]

Spot on! We're all spirits, limited only by our bodies/space suits!

[psionickx]

i wonder if spirits of BIG animals are treated differently.

[Beekeeper]

I don't think they'd be different. If you watch documentaries on wild animals the existence of soul is as evident as ever but, now I've said this, it raises the question: "What about microscopic animals?" If everything is consciousness expressing itself, then I guess all things endure and evolve as consciousness in some way.

[Tutor]

Aesop aptly reveals that aspects of spirit are scattered broadly toward example of the breadth of consciousness. though, in one aspectual reveal, Aesop has a mouse rescuing a lion, by pulling a thorn from its paw. the thorn perhaps is meant to imply pride. not sure really. best guess

and an elephant is not so much scared of the mouse as it is scared of stepping on the mouse. another head twister i think

also, one can see that in more natural cultures, animals are often schemed as on an ascending totem pole, to sequentially reveal behavioral traits toward survival wisdom. always the eagle is most revered, atop as winged overcoming remarkability with a bird's eye view.

a mouse can defend against a rattle snake, even if bitten in the wider opening, it backs into the tighter opening and it is revived, but seeming as dead it has at least blocked the hole which leads to its young. so the snake moves on as it cannot open its mouth to even eat the bitten mouse.

[Tutor]

spirit is spirit, i think