Graham Hancock- shamans, fairies, aliens, saints and DNA

[enoch]

Originating with Hancock undertaking Ayahuasca ceremonies in the Amazon, he charts the history of cave art, fairies, witchcraft, alien abduction and establishes the clear evidence of all these phenomena linking throughout history and culture to present us with definate icons of the supernatural realms experienced through altered states of consciousness...all of which science is only just touching upon!

A thoroughly enjoyable, fact-packed and thought provoking nutshell of one of the possible origins for religion and art.

[CFTraveler]

Would this be considered fiction or new/age? I ask because I manage a bookstore on my spare time & it sounds interesting.

[Tempestinateapot]

Must be a Unity bookstore. :D I can't imagine managing a Barnes & Noble in your spare time. :lol: :P (L)Unitiks rock!

[CFTraveler]

Guilty as charged. :lol: So when I say I have three jobs I'm not kidding.

[enoch]

Sorry, guys...I totally bamboozled that one!! :lol: It's GRAHAM Hancock..not Robert... :oops:

CF..there is no jacket 'label' on this, but I would consider it a microhistory of altered states.....hold on...I'll find you the google blurb.....

[enoch]

here's the amazon blurb and reviews

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... 45-2256667 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1844136817/ref=ase_thedailygrail0c/202-4769345-2256667)

You wouldn't go wrong stocking it, cf....it's an excellent read :wink:

You'll find a review (amongst the mainly 5 star reviews) that tears the book apart and recommends David Lewis-Williams' 'The Mind in the Cave' - but what the reviewer doesn't inform you is that hancock devotes more than a quarter of this book to examining and praising Williams' theory of cave art being the result of altered states of consciousness in prehistory.

[CFTraveler]

Thanks! I think I'll get it for myself and if I like it I'll donate it to the bookstore. :idea:

[enoch]

There's some beautiful artwork included such as this ayahuasca-inspired vision painted by pablo amaringo:-

http://deoxy.org/img/Pablo_Amaringo-Huarmi-Nahui_sm.jpg


The surreal and visionary art forum is quite interesting too: http://visionaryartforum.com/index.php

[CFTraveler]

Beautiful. I love that kind of art.

[Beekeeper]

The book is Graham Hancock's Supernatural, Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind. The first thing to note about it is that it's 710 pages long with a further 45 pages of appendixes and 91 pages of footnoting. Don't let that put you off, however, there's a lot in it for people of our ilk. (Elk just wasn't funny)

This is more a summary than a review. I'll try to be succinct but it will be lengthy nonetheless. I'll post it in instalments. Be patient, it may initially look like the summary of someone's 'trip' but it does go somewhere.

For a review: http://www.grahamhancock.com/supernatural/

[Beekeeper]

The book starts with Hancock sampling psychotropic plants that have long been used in shamanist practice. (This is for purely educational purposes, of course :wink:).) He begins by relating his experience with the root bark of Tabernanthe iboga, containing the hallucinogenic chemical ibogaine. Hancock tells us this is administered by a reputable healer and with a doctor present. It leads to a pretty intense series of hallucinations and an OBE that affect Hancock quite profoundly,

I hadn't expected ibogaine to make a difference, but it did. From the moment I woke up with my strength recovered I knew that it had flipped a sort of switch in me because I was no longer able to see anything in the same negative, nihilistic way as I had done before, (p.13)

It also leaves him “violently ill and unable to walk” for a further 12 hours after the visions conclude.

After this introduction, he launches into some of the history of cave art, presenting David Lewis-Williams' neuropsychological theory. While the human brain has been anatomically the same for 200000 years, it is only about 30000 years ago that humans begin to paint the caves. This theory states that it was the newly discovered ability to access altered states through psychotropic plants and other methods such as dancing, drumming, sensory deprivation and physical trauma that altered humankind dramatically, resulting in the development of religion and culture, as reflected in cave art. Prehistoric cave art, according to this theory, depicts the experiences of shamans while hallucinating.

Hancock now relates the experience he has had, prior to his experience with ibogaine, of drinking the sacred ayahuasca -the “vine of the dead”- in the Peruvian Amazon. (There are coloured prints of ayahuasca vision-inspired artworks at the centre of the book. If you’re interested, try http://www.pabloamaringo.com/ They are quite beautiful.) Before he does so, however, he points out the unlikelihood of the Indians discovering the properties of this plant. Of the 80000 plants they can choose from they find not only a bush with hallucinogenic leaves but also how to combine it with a vine that inactivates an enzyme in the digestive tract that would block the hallucinogenic effect.

So, he attends his first ceremony conducted by a shaman in the jungle. His hallucination begins with “entoptic phenomena”/ “phosphenes” or “form constants:” technical terms for the patterns, often geometric, that appear before the real hallucinations/visions begin. As a chant begins, he finds that the phosphenes he sees (that form into the flank of a giant serpent and the eye of a peacock’s display feather) begin to beat in time to the chant and he feels as though he is rising. He is nauseous and there’s a chance he’ll evacuate his bowels. Then, he comes down, feeling he has only “stood at the doors of perception” and resolves to drink more of the horrible brew.

In this second experience, the opening images are overlaid with large snakes. This is a universal experience for ayahuasca users. These snakes, he tells us, often resolve into the double helix of DNA. He begins to vomit and sweat, finding himself on his hands and knees. When he returns to the circle, he suddenly encounters two beings of white light only three or four feet tall. They have heart- shaped faces on big domed foreheads and seem to be trying to communicate with him when he is again overwhelmed by bout of vomiting. He continues in this way, relating other ayahuasca experiences and beginning to hint at his belief that these are not mere hallucinations, in the sense that Science uses the word, but glimpses into spiritual dimensions. He elaborates on that later.

Of interest is that he encounters the classic grey aliens in further experiences of ayahuasca,

…then suddenly I find myself looking, at very close range, into a shockingly “alien” face, grey in colour, with a wide domed forehead and narrow pointed chin – heart shaped like the faces of the “light-beings”….But this creature doesn’t look friendly. Its eyes are multi-segmented like those of flies….since aliens and ETs have never been interests of mine, I’m really puzzled to experience such an hallucination….A short while later… a beautiful Egyptian goddess appears. (pp68-69)

What’s frightening is something that would be easy to interpret as an abduction experience – the feeling that if I allow the vision to continue I’m going to be taken up by those metal ships. They rotate and pulse with light from beneath, seeming to rise through a tube or funnel in the universe. I distinctly don’t want to be taken and open my eyes to stop what I’m seeing. But the strangeness persists. I’m back in the real world but just out of sight I can feel serpents, dragons, demonic aliens and spaceships whirling all around. (pp71-72)

He goes on to describe the alien as different to the serpents and dragons, as a huge insect with humanoid features. He also describes other insect creatures, less intelligent worker beings, that are present as well.

In his final ayahuasca vision, Hancock encounters a therianthrope, that is an animal-human hybrid, in this case a man crocodile being. Again this is typical of the sort of entity encountered by the Indian shamans. Hancock later sees many of the things he experienced in his visions in Pablo Amaringo’s paintings of his ayahuasca visions.

[CFTraveler]

In his 2012 book, Daniel Pinchbeck talks about this book, and goes to many of the places Hancock went (may have even gone together, I already forgot). What he wrote about it sounded very interesting. I can't wait to read it.
In his descriptions of both Iboga and Ayahuasca, he characterizes them as possessed of a specific personality and character, Iboga as a male presence (and very earthly), and Ayahuasca as a portal for more complicated presences (which jibes very well with the et visions).

[journyman161]

Graham Hancock writes well but more importantly from my PoV, he actually goes to check things out. the man is a 'Doer' & not someone to sit in a room & read what others have done. He makes no claims he can't back up with solid evidence & doesn't rely on others to do either his thinking or his exploration.

From ideas about the pyramids & sphinx & where they came from, through to the measurement systems used to build Giza, Stonehenge & Teotihuacan (sp?) & the disocvery & mapping of relics under seas that have been around to more than 10,000 years, he shows his discontent in leaving little odd things sticking out of current theories.

He has explored in depth the ruins of the world & been involved in some fairly amazing discoveries and/or interpretations of what is out there. As an engineer he has the kind of mind that thinks there must be real reasons for why something exists & he goes out of his way to try to find them.

I'm also looking forward to reading Supernatural - it's on my Amazon Wish List.

[Beekeeper]

It may well have, Leyla. I think you will find it interesting!

[Beekeeper]

Soon, Leyla. I'm up to my eyeballs in senior marking.

[Beekeeper]

Part 2: The Caves.

This section is largely given over to describing particular groups of cave art dating from the Upper Palaeolithic. Such art can be found in Europe, Africa, Australia, the Americas, Asia and the Middle East. The oldest is dated between 32000 and possibly more than 36500 years old.

Hancock is interested in applying David Lewis-Williams’ neuropsychological theory to the explain commonalities in the cave art as a predisposition of the human brain to produce similar hallucinations in the trance state. He creates a persuasive argument.

Over the course of many experiments a very curious fact has become apparent. At some stages of the visionary experience subjects in laboratory tests report seeing displays of specific kinds of abstract geometrical patterns. What is interesting is the evidence that such patterns are universal and culture-free. P202.

He discusses the prevalence of therianthropy, that is, the representation of human beings with animal attributes such as a bison-man depicted straddling a lion-woman in Chauvet, France, or lion-men in Holenstein-Stadel, Germany. Insect men are also commonly shown, with the praying mantis particularly favoured in the rock art of the extinct San in Southern Africa. Chimera, that is creatures that combine a number of animals, are also in abundance, such as the “Sorcerer” of Trois Freres: an owl, wolf, stag, horse, lion, human composite. Therianthropy, according to research by Paul Tacon and Christopher Chippendale, is the only universal in cave art.

Further similarities in cave art include the depiction of “wounded men” figures being pierced by shafts as they transform into animals. Figures also seem to float in space. Additionally, geometrical shapes such as lines, dots, zigzags, ladders, grids and spirals are often present in cave art, either alone or incorporated into other images. Another typical aspect is the treatment of the rock face as a dynamic element when creating the artwork, for example,

In Cougnac the remarkable panel … featuring a large red ibex and two figures of wounded men – repeatedly integrates ancient calcite “draperies” into the painting. Thus, the legs of the ibex are each formed by vertical flows of calcite. P147

In the Hall of Bulls, for example, a natural ridge forms the back, head and ears of a small image of a bear…. P146.

The same sort of illusion… where we see the forequarters of an aurochs emerging out of the hollow in the rock as though it is about to draw the rest of its body forth from the darkness beneath. P147

In order to refute other theories about why certain figures were depicted on the cave wall, Hancock notes evidence that the animals hunted were not always the animals depicted in African and European caves and also that the caves where the paintings occurred were rarely ever lived in but were instead sacred caves that were difficult to access.

In the case of the San he also provides ethnographic evidence, what he calls the “Rosetta Stone”: interviews with San elders in the 1870s, before their race were completely annihilated, conducted by Wilhelm Bleek and Lucy Lloyd. These interviews confirmed that the paintings depicted shamanistic journeys, “…it is the special burden and responsibility of the shaman that he is able to leave his body here on earth, send his spirit to the otherworld to contact and negotiate with the beings there, and then return to his body and resume his normal life.” (p211) According to the San informants, the therianthropes and chimera depicted in their cave art are shamans transforming into the animal forms that they adopted to journey into the spirit world. The formations of human figures, depict their shamanic dances. The bleeding from the nose often depicted in their figures (human and animal) is a representation of the physical reality: their dance would result in a bleeding nose for the dehydrated shamans. Also, valid information is said to be brought into the world as a result of shamanistic journeys and used to the benefit of the San people and people of other races with whom they share their knowledge.

Hancock now proposes an answer to the riddle of the “wounded men.” He discusses “somatic hallucinations", including attenuation or foreshortening of the body and limbs, the possession of extra limbs and digits (an effect known as polymelia), and – significantly – painful pricking and stabbing sensations.” (p327) The electrical current you feel when you project is one such “hallucination.” He relates the common shamanistic experience of being mutilated, even fully disassembled, and having organs removed or devices such as crystals implanted by spiritual beings.

Hancock then speculates on why people chose the caves. He offers a few theories. One is that the cave itself could have been inductive to trance via sensory deprivation. Another is that people who had tranced and reached altered states naturally (about 2% of the population he tells us later in the book) had sought the caves because they were suggestive of the trance state, “concrete symbols of passage into another world, or a descent to the underworld.” (p343)

Under the subheading “Scientific sacrilege” Hancock is now very direct. He differs to David Lewis-Williams in that he does not believe these experiences are hallucinations in the scientific sense of the world but are in fact interactions with other planes and their inhabitants.

Could it be, as the shamans in the Amazon repeatedly assert, that the plants really do open up a channel of communication to supernatural realms and teachers …. And isn’t it logical to conclude, since evolution has bestowed these peculiar and distinctive abilities on the human race, that contact with the supernatural must have offered some profound, adaptive advantage to our ancestors and could, conceivably, continue to do so today? (p344)

He goes on to challenge science,

… since science does not yet have the faintest idea what hallucinations are, or how they are caused, or why our brains should have evolved in such a way that certain plants can induce them. It is a more or less automatic assumption for I would guess 99 out of 100 people in the technologically advanced countries today that hallucinations are simply “wanderings of the mind”, foolish tricks of the brain chemistry to which it would be mad to attribute any objective reality. Yet the truth is that science has never proved this to be the case, and indeed has not yet progressed very far in understanding the neurological basis of day-to-day perception, let alone what is involved in occasioning the fantastic mental imagery that is characteristic of hallucination. (p346)

I’ve deliberately left material out of this summary of Part 2. This part of the book is lengthy and, I must admit, I found it tedious at times, especially when Hancock goes into some of the history of anthropology, particularly the hegemony of certain scholars, and the classification of entopic phenomena. There is a dramatic encounter with bees that I have omitted too but I’ll leave that to anyone who really wants to read the book to discover. I mention it because Hancock seems to share the belief that bees are messengers of the gods.

[Beekeeper]

Part 3: The Beings

Graham Hancock begins this part by restating his feeling that the drugs opened the door to another reality, “My intuition was that I had been afforded glimpses however brief and however distorted by my own cultural preconditioning, of beings that are absolutely real in some modality not yet understood by science, that exist around us and with us, that even seem to be aware of us and take an active interest in us, but vibrate at a frequency beyond the range of our senses and instruments and thus generally remain completely invisible to us,” (p354) (italics are Hancock’s). He goes on to identify and quote people from the past such as William James, Aldous Huxley, Albert Hoffman (who first synthesised LSD) and Rick Strassman (American psychiatrist) who also adhere to this view.

He discusses the Roper polls which asked questions on “unusual personal experiences” rather than direct experience of UFOs. They were commissioned by Dr John Mack, History Professor David Jacobs, Psychiatric Therapist John Carpenter, Sociology Professor Ron Westrum and author Budd Hopkins. The questions were based on the commonly reported experiences that UFO abductees could remember without hypnosis.

These interviews showed:
• One in five Americans woke up paralysed with the sense of a strange figure present in the room
• one in eight adults had experienced unexplained lost time;
• one in ten, flying through the air;
• one in twelve, unusual lights or balls of light in a room;
• one in twelve, puzzling scars.

2% of the nearly 6000 respondents fell into the category of answering yes to at least 4 of the 5 experiences. (What would the percentage be on this site, I wonder).

Hancock identifies his stance on UFOs on page 364 as,

Now, as I write these words after completing my research, my lack of belief in physical, extraterrestrial explanations for UFOs and aliens, and my intuition that they must be visionary phenomena, has hardened into something close to certainty.

He continues now by drawing parallels between the experiences of shamans and alien abductees:

Needles, Surgery and Pain

Abducted shamans and alien abductees tell of painful and incomprehensible surgical procedures that often leave behind permanent physical scars and sometimes even mysterious implants in the abductees’ bodies (p365) Hancock relates many examples. Here are a some:

From UFO abductees:
Betty Aho’s right eye was removed and a tiny device was implanted deep within her head- with additional devices implanted in her spine and heels…Crystals were used as surgical instruments in the excruciatingly painful operation that Carlos experienced…..

From the shamanic enthnographies
They cut his head open, take out his brains, wash and restore them to give him a clear mind to penetrate the mysteries…They insert gold dust into his eyes (Dyak, Borneo)… The Cobeno shaman introduces rock crystals into the novice’s head; these eat out his brains and eyes, then take the place of those organs and become his strength… (South America)

This also includes the inspection of spines and the counting of bones. The rib bone seems particularly important.

More on this part soon.

[Wrong Eye]

… since science does not yet have the faintest idea what hallucinations are, or how they are caused, or why our brains should have evolved in such a way that certain plants can induce them. It is a more or less automatic assumption for I would guess 99 out of 100 people in the technologically advanced countries today that hallucinations are simply “wanderings of the mind”, foolish tricks of the brain chemistry to which it would be mad to attribute any objective reality. Yet the truth is that science has never proved this to be the case, and indeed has not yet progressed very far in understanding the neurological basis of day-to-day perception, let alone what is involved in occasioning the fantastic mental imagery that is characteristic of hallucination. (p346)

I’ve deliberately left material out of this summary of Part 2. This part of the book is lengthy and, I must admit, I found it tedious at times, especially when Hancock goes into some of the history of anthropology, particularlythe hegemony of certain scholars, and the classification of entopic phenomena. There is a dramatic encounter with bees that I have omitted too but I’ll leave that to anyone who really wants to read the book to discover. I mention it because Hancock seems to share the belief that bees are messengers of the gods.

Unfortunately, I've had hallucinations without any substance. I have since learned that some hallucinations have more to them, and that they are probably still the constructs of my own mind.

It scares me when "precognition" comes in the form of a hallucination, my precognition has very scary aspects to it anyway, but largely I believe now they are and always have been the product of an imbalance in my perception abilities and an overactive imagination and creativity side- or too much caffiene combined with that. There is ample evidence for this in my past. Including the fact that I have and had a huge amount of control!

I believe emotions are not caused by brain chemistry, as well, just that the imbalance in brain chemistry is a symptom, not a cause of the problem.

That's my two cents anyway.

[Beekeeper]

I'm happy if people are reading this and it makes them think, so your 2 cent's worth is welcome, Wrong eye.

Here's more:

Why should spirits in one part of the world and at one period of history, and aliens in another part of the world at another period of history, both abduct men and women, insert mysterious objects into their heads, stick lances or massive needles into their necks, implant crystals into their bodies, count their bones, take out their eyes and brains, etc, etc? On reflection, I could see how ludicrous it was to imagine that people from such different cultural backgrounds as shamans and UFO abductees could have independently invented what were essentially the same utterly bizarre entities and the same utterly inexplicable medical/surgical procedures. (p374)

Floating, lights and threads or ropes:

There are parallels between alien abductees and shamans in their statements about floating or flying to awaiting entities:

The UFO abductees:

They glided me into that thing…I couldn’t resist them, I just floated… (Charles Hickson) (p382)

I’m inside a beam of light. I’m going up, and there’s a hole above me, and it’s dark, but there’s light all around it. It’s like a blue light…a blue beam of light come down to the ground, and then it was almost like going through a tunnel… (Nona) (p382)

The thread or string seemed to be bathed in a light that was everywhere and as the beings were telling him ‘not to be afraid’ Arthur was ‘just going along it, standing erect’, pulled as if by an unseen force. The string seemed to go into the craft, ‘like a phone line or something’. (p383)

The shamans:

He saw the roof of his hut open above his head and felt himself carried off to the sky, where he met a multitude of spirits… (Basuto shaman, South Africa). (p384)

The rope can take anyone away who comes to the dance (Mabolele Shikwe)

When I go to the rope, it makes me float up to the sky. Sometimes I travel to another place the instant I go toward it. At other times you simply walk along it. (Kalahari named Cgunta Elae) (p385)

Shamans also commonly relate seeing contraptions in the sky, describing them as wells or boats or flying shields and describing the star people they meet:

I follow the thread of wells… the thread of the wells of metal. (San) (p386)

[Beekeeper]

Caves and Sea

Not all shamanic journeys are sky-bound. Shamans are frequently transported to caves that sometimes are lined with crystals or calcite and often illuminated by diffuse light. Underwater locations occur too. Interestingly, the first UFO report involved a UFO that plunged into the sea and entered crystalline caverns. Hancock cites a few similar reports.

Transformation

Hancock is surprised to discover that aliens “frequently present themselves in the form of animals or with hybrid animal and alien characteristics ” (p391)

Another type of transformation is also common to the shaman and alien abductee’s experience and that is the sense of being taught. Even abductees, “despite their frequent feelings of confusion and trauma…regard their encounters with aliens as learning experiences…..”(p401)

That’s one of the ways we learn new songs, dances, and more knowledge about how to heal others. They show us what plants to use for a certain sickness or how to treat a specific person. (p402)

Shamans and abductees are sometimes shown books that even illiterate people are able to read.

Hancock believes that the UFO abductees are spontaneous trancers, like the shamans that don’t need psychotropic aids and other techniques, and declares that it’s likely that 2% of every human population is comprised such people. After again speculating on the possibility that these worlds and spirits are real, he asks the question, “What do they want?

[CFTraveler]

Beekeper wrote:
2% of the nearly 6000 respondents fell into the category of answering yes to at least 4 of the 5 experiences. (What would the percentage be on this site, I wonder). Let's do a poll on the UFO forum. It can be completely anonymous, unless someone wants to explain their experience. :lol:

[Flash_hound]

Ahh that's so cool. I just wanted to let you know what I'm reading this and I find it really interesting and I'm glad that you are coving the main points for us. :D

[Beekeeper]

This section is dedicated to you then, Flash_hound. :D

The next chapter is entitled “Sprit Love,” which gives a pretty good indicator of the answer to the question. Hancock relates the widespread tradition “that the true parents of all shamans are spirits – even if the intercourse that brings about their conception takes place between spirit bodies in the spirit world.” (p411)

In Siberia there are tribes that state mother spirits appear in animal form and abduct the souls of future shamans, bringing them to a huge tree in the spirit world when they are born. This tree has an odd shape with its top broken off and every branch bears a bird’s nest. The raven appears as teacher to educate the souls. Those in the upper branches become stronger and more important than those in the lower nests.

Hancock sees a connection between the tree image and neatly stacked incubators. He also sees a link to the traditions of the Cuno, the indigenous people of islands off Panama. In these traditions, shamanism began with the arrival “from heaven” of a humanlike spirit name Ipeorkum on a flying disk called “olapatee.” He teaches the people heavenly knowledge and departs, leaving a child in a treetop. Later, ten more children come to the earth this way.

A shaman, we are told, can be the lover, parent and child of spirits. Several examples are given of shamans having spirit lovers and spirit children. Mothers of spirit children are taken off to the spirit world to nurse and breastfed their offspring. This is true in the case of alien abduction but hybrid offspring are also shown to people who are not their parents but who are required to nurse and play with them anyway. These supernatural beings are described continuously as very small or dwarf size and the hybrid offspring as deficient, weak, listless or monstrous. Sometimes the offspring are born on earth, weak and sickly with white skin and white hair.

Abductees who talk of being impregnated by aliens and having foetuses removed claim that in subsequent abductions they see them in incubators. Sometimes the aliens will try to have the human mothers hold and nurture these creatures, that are typically listless and do not display the normal baby reflexes. One of Mack's patients stated:

Their bodies were short for their heads. Their heads seemed oversize. They had very blue eyes. They had very thin, wispy hair…I would say they were probably three and a half feet tall, but they looked the same age. “You’re our mother and we need you,” they said. (Nona, p430)

Males also have sperm samples taken and their offspring displayed to them.

Hancock sees clear parallels in all this:

Aren’t these stacks of incubation tanks, in which half-alien, half-human babies are lined up in neat symmetrical rows, in essence the same thing as the Siberian legend, described earlier, that incubates the souls of shamans in nests attached in geometric rows rising step by step with the space of one branch between each row and the next?

What makes the comparison particularly tempting is the report of Karin, one of John Mack’s patients, that she had emerged during an abduction on board a UFO “into a black space that contained a huge tree with a great canopy of leaves. On the different branches of the tree were large nests with thick twigs and an eagle sitting quietly and peacefully in each one.” (p424)

As another commonality, it seems male aliens are not well endowed. The Urubu Indians’ tradition has it that the first shamans had such small penises that they could not mate successfully with humans. Sara, patient of John Mack, stated that she was forced into intercourse with a creature that had “a light contour of a penis, not like a physical penis.” (p421)

As with shamans and spirits, alien abductees sometimes feel that they’ve been deceived, the alien initially taking the appearance of their spouse. In both cases there are people who feel forced and others who fall for their spirit/alien lover.

As with the shamans, there are also abductees who feel star born. Among Mack’s patients, a troubled toddler claims he does not want to go to the UFO again but that he was born there, “I was born there and fell from the stars….I was born on the spaceship.”
(p425)
As with the shamans also, these beings rarely explain why they wish to breed with humans and create hybrids.

[Beekeeper]

Hey, Leyla. Hope it's not freaking you out that much! Just phenomena; doesn't mean Hancock's got it all figured. Now your parents aren't seeming so unusual though, I suppose.

Take care. :)

[hasalameth]

Wow, first of all Beekeeper, thanks for this lovely thread, I really take pleasure in reading it, and it's good you're quoting parts because 1) I'm too lazy to read that book myself, right now and 2) I don't think I would lay my paws on it in the near future for various reasons...

Ok, I guess when you're reading new and interesting yet "foreign" information like this, your conscious mind is struggling to make the information fit in to the preconditioned image of the world, I enjoy sitting back and watching my mind trying to figure it all out... Anyhow, one way to process information like this is to compare the info with one's own experiences, and I've just found some peculiar facts (mere coincidences is what I call them) here:


The formations of human figures, depict their shamanic dances. The bleeding from the nose often depicted in their figures (human and animal) is a representation of the physical reality: their dance would result in a bleeding nose for the dehydrated shamans.

It's fun how I throughout my life have been having seemingly random nosebleeds, never when someone has hit me or stuff like that, but I've seen this occurring pattern:

A) In at least 70% of the times I get a small nosebleed, it's as if my body is giving me a signal that tells me "a virus / bacteria is upon us, just giving you a heads up", because a few days / a week after the nosebleed I generally get sick. I've found this to be a very effective "intruding alert"-system and I can almost always predict physical illness. The reason is, I think, that the blood gets thicker with the white bloodcells storming in to strengthen the immunesystem, making the blood thicker and then bursting out through small and delicate veins in my nose. I think it's pretty cool.

B) Then there are those other nosebleeds. I don't know how much I've written about those times of "semi-awakening" that occur once or twice a year and last for at least a week, where I observe a shift of perception of the world, and am close / peeking in at the "other side" beyond the treshhold of enlightenment. Many signs manifest, mainly the nocturnal activity, incoming "insights", and my perception of time (it disappears, I feel like I'm doing everything in much more slower and calmer and more calculated manner, and people around seem irritated by this bohemian way, but I am always somehow faster and get everything done before everyone else and even physically arrive to places much faster than others, and when in my experience, I've just been moving slowly, and the world around me even slower) - ANYWAY (sorry for chatting about like this, here's the tiny point) - these "times" are always acoompanied by nosebleeds. I do everything to keep them at bay, but they just come, and are pretty massive. Anyone have any idea how the two are linked?

C) I bleed from my nose once a month, I think it's usually after New Moon or at the first quarter, and I call it "male-menstruation" as I tend to suffer from emotional imbalance and random irritation attacks around that time of the month, I think it's hilarious imo :lol:.

Then about the bees:

Almost always prior to a life-changing and / or very insightful experience, I have a vivid dream about two bees circulating me, happily and cheerfully, waking up all refreshed and happy. It's cool how he says the bees are "messengers of the gods".

About the dwarf-ish breeds:

The information didn't really make any sense to me back then, but three months ago I went to one of, if not the best tarot readers I've ever been to, and he told me I: belong to a family of a well-to-do people, an ancient dwarf people who actively work for the light/good. I laughed at this since I am 1.89 meters tall IRL, but I now realize that he must have been speaking of the origin of my soul (which was the question in the first place, now that I come to think about it). Then he told me I was a King in a past life. (Yeah I'm adding that to my "things that give me self-esteem and makes me even more conceited, if possible" - shelf.) (irony).

About the aliens/angels:

I wrote quite a lengthy post in the mysticism forum about my views on non-human life interracting with human life, and I dare say this information kinda validates my opinion, doesn't it?

Has anyone been experiencing the same stuff, with bees and nosebleeds?

Can't wait for more information!!! Great work Beekeeper!!!

ps. I just thought of something, when picturing the trees and rows of humans being bred in glass containers, I can't help to realize that the image resembles the one in the Matrix, the human crop fields. Will that movie trilogy ever seize to amaze me? I think not.

[Beekeeper]

Hasalameth, I thought you'd find something interesting here.

I must admit to seeing a therianthrope once and being scared witless (a horned man, about 7 ft tall). I was 19 and fully awake. A couple of weeks before that I'd seen a little blond girl.

Strangely, I can also relate to

• one in eight adults had experienced unexplained lost time;
• one in ten, flying through the air (my sister and I share a puzzling childhood memory of flying together- but no spaceships)
• one in twelve, unusual lights or balls of light in a room;
• one in twelve, puzzling scars.

When I was reading the book, the nose bleed thing struck me too. I had been chatting on msn with someone off this site who suddenly got a nose bleed. It turns out he often gets them. Shortly after that experience, I read the information and wondered at the conincidence.

Anyway, I'll get back onto it soon. :wink:

[Flash_hound]

Thanks for the dedication :D .

[Beekeeper]

You're welcome. :D

Carl Yung, writing in 1958, pointed out the long history of UFO phenomenon.

• 1566 -“many black globes were seen in the air” above the city of Basel in Switzerland. A Basel broadsheet illustrated the event and is reproduced in the book.
• 1561- plates and globes in large numbers and also tubes with three or more globes in them were reported over Nuremburg, Germany
• A 12th century illustration called “The Quickening of the Child in the Womb” depicts a large quadrangular object containing a curious mixture of eyes and discs flying over a pregnant woman. The object is connected by a long tube to a foetus in her womb. (pp433-436)

In 1969, Jacques Vallee, a mathematician and consultant to NASA, wrote a book called Passport to Magnolia. He too catalogued more ancient UFO sightings.

• 1868 - Copiango, Chile, an “aerial construction” with lights.
• 1878 - a Texas farmer saw a large flying “saucer”
• 1880 - a 14 year old felt drawn to a large luminous ball in the sky but ran away
• 820 - Agobard, the Archbishop of Lyons, France, recorded that a mob were exhibiting a group of four, whom they had kept in captivity for days, and whom they intended to stone to death because they had fallen from ships in the sky.
• Japan - Imperial records relate the erratic flight of an “earthenware vessel” over Kii Province
• 12th September, 1271, priest Nichiren was saved from execution by a shiny bright object that suddenly appeared in the sky.
• 989 –Japan, three round objects in the sky join together
• 1702 – Japan, cotton like threads fall from the sky, apparently emanating from the sun
• 1749 – Japan, three large round objects in the sky for four days, sparking riots
• The Bible: Elijah’s ascent into heaven, in a whirlwind, associated with a chariot of fire and, of course, women having intercourse with “Sons of God” in Chapter 6, Genesis. (pp 437-441)

It is Vallee’s work that makes Hancock realise that fairies, spirits and aliens are on a continuum.

He tells of reverend Robert Kirk who published The secret Commonwealth of the Elves, Fauns and Fairies. Kirk was rumoured to possess the second sight and claimed to regularly encounter small, unpredictable supernaturals. He disappeared in 1692 and the local belief was that the fairies had taken him.

These are the commonalities in fairy folklore and alien abduction accounts:

• Ability of both to fly, either with or without a craft
• Abduction of individuals into caves or the air
• Having abductees play wet nurse to hybrid children and the presence of an authority figure while this happens. S/he often possesses a “wand” that will bring about compliance in the abductee when applied to her body. The “midwife to the fairies” figure is a global mythology.
• Lost time. Fairy abductees, it was said, were sometimes returned years or even centuries later.
• Shape-shifting into human and animal forms (therianthropy).
• The shape-shifting of the alien vehicle, so an abductee may think she’s being carried away in a horse drawn cart or a Cadillac.
A number of children claimed “to have been transported into the sky in a small craft that appeared to them initially as a booth at a carnival” (p452)
• Sexual intercourse and marriage between humans and supernaturals.
Another Scottish witch, Katherine Jonesdochter, told of a fairy lover she called “the bowman” who first had intercourse with her when she was an adolescent girl and continued to visit her for sex for another 40 years, gifting her with supernatural knowledge and healing skills in return.’
(p460)
• Abduction can take place within the abductee’s bedroom while a loved one sleeps nearby and involves paralysis
• Hybrid offspring
• Ambiguous sexuality and hive-like social order of the beings
• Passing through solid matter like doors and windows
• Blasting and paralysing technology

Here are some differences:

• Fairy wetnurses were women already lactating, UFO abductees are made to lactate
• Fairy wetnurses were often not returned and they often saw other abductees who had not been returned
• Fairies permanently stole human children. Children as young as 2 have reported their alien abduction but they are always returned
• The fairies sometimes left not quite human “changelings” in place of the healthy babies they took. These children were thin, ugly, malformed, physically weak and insatiably hungry. They were often described as “withered, bald and light-headed.” They had abnormally large heads, pale withered skin and long thin limbs. They were slow to speak, walk and self-care and never developed normal intelligence. This was a widespread, widely reported phenomenon. The few stories related on this topic in Hancock’s book make fascinating reading.


Anachronism:
Hancock agrees, “As Mack suggests, it may be the case that the “aliens assume a form or forms that are familiar or comprehensible within the individual’s own perceptual background or framework….” (p452) but he also points out that the system glitches fairly regularly. For instance, In August 1914 eight men saw a ‘large, flat-topped spherical object’ on the surface of Lake Huron in Canada. Next to it were small humanoids just over a meter tall. Though they had the characteristic appearance and violet-green clothes of ‘fairies,’ they were doing something technical with the hose immersed in the water. … (p454)

Before concluding this part of his book, Hancock suggests that the breeding programme with humans is a process of race strengthening and that it has been evolving:

The abduction of Lori Biggs from Redondo Beach, California in1970 adds more to the limited information we have at our disposal. She was told by aliens that they were able to turn themselves into light…but that they were unable to hold their physical form for very long: “They wanted to learn how to combine human solid form and their luminous form into a more permanent, more powerful being.” (p470)

He also discusses the widely reported circular fairy dances in fixed locations, hypothesising that these were in fact a transportation technology. He believes these beings have evolved, developing the fairy dance technology into UFOs, relinquishing baby theft and learning to return abductees in reasonable time.

[Beekeeper]

I get onto the DNA bit soon Leyla. Hancock's ideas align with many things you speak about in your posts.

Btw, I just came back to do a little edit. I missed a few things so the psot above is ever so slightly altered.

[myhoran]

Ran out and got the book after hearing Hancock's interview on C2C one night- in my estimation it is the best book he's written thus far. It substantiated a lot of my presumptions as well as experiences. Blessings to all, myhoran

[Beekeeper]

Sorry, super busy. Here's more. Getting closer to the DNA bit, Leyla.

Part IV, The Codes

Hancock returns to the topic of DMT and DMT research. He informs us it is a substance spread widely in plants and animals and, of course, occurs naturally in humans. It is, on the molecular level, very closely related to the fungal hallucinogen psilocybin and to serotonin.

He decides to smoke DMT and discover its effects first hand. He finds himself in a “strange, pristine geometrical space” (p.515) with other intelligences purposefully engaged. He is very frightened. He is shown around this world of more than three dimensions where vast amounts of information are stored. This place is highly organised, inorganic and technological. The beings try to explain things to him but he is unable to comprehend. When he takes more DMT he returns to note new details. Ultimately, he finds himself staring into a nucleus of a cell at DNA.

Hancock is convinced that the technology of the room serves the function of displaying a highly interactive recording. He believes he has come away with enormous amounts of data transferred but that he lacks the software to open it.
He feels that the beings are utterly different in emotional temperament to humans, like “big-brained robots.” (p.521) and imagines the whole set up falling into “sleep mode” the minute he leaves.

Hancock notes he could easily have perceived these beings in this environment as “clowns” or “elves” and that Rick Strassman’s DMT volunteers reported similar. He also states that such experiences are sometimes recorded by those using ayahuasca. He goes on to speculate on where the ideas of clowns may really have originated, noting that ancient Greece, where such things were thought to have begun, was a land rich in psychoactive plants. He notes too the presence of fairies and elves in the reports in Strassman’s group of volunteers.

Next he gives over room to detailing more reports from Strassman’s DMT subjects, indicating a whole lot of other similarities to alien abductee reports and noting Srassman’s conclusion that alien abductees are people who have spontaneous increases in the DMT in their brains. He does not say that the experiences are caused by the increased DMT, however, rather they are made possible by the DMT, remaining open to the possibility that these things exist and DMT allows people to tune into the necessary frequency.

[hasalameth]

In August 1914 eight men saw a ‘large, flat-topped spherical object’ on the surface of Lake Huron in Canada. Next to it were small humanoids just over a meter tall. Though they had the characteristic appearance and violet-green clothes of ‘fairies,’ they were doing something technical with the hose immersed in the water. … (p454)

Haha, guess what colors and outfits the aliens on all my drawings from childhood look like? :D Violet, green and golden robes with hieroglyph / runic like symbols on them. I consider scanning some drawings / paintings, and post them here.





Hancock returns to the topic of DMT and DMT research. He informs us it is a substance spread widely in plants and animals and, of course, occurs naturally in humans. It is, on the molecular level, very closely related to the fungal hallucinogen psilocybin and to serotonin.

People taking shrooms (psychedelic mushrooms, key ingridient: psilocybin) very often claim they are leaving earth and are astronauts in space and also that they start speaking a very odd random language that sounds like lunatic non-sense talk, but they feel it is actually alien information downloading into them. I know this since I have a friend who was taking stuff in the past, he's out of it now bless his soul, but at the time I researched the subject quite thoroughly. This is a thing about Psilocybe semilanceata that I found very very interesting, that if any, any lifeform on earth is from outer space, it would be these mushrooms, because the spores are so light that they can easily slip out of the atmosphere, and guess what the perfect conditions for these organisms are? air-free, dark and cold environment... Space! So really, these spores can manipulate in huge numbers, and are probably flying around all of our galaxy, and "enlightening" beings anywhere... :lol:

I just did a quick search now, and I stumbled across this:


(...) Common experiences typically exhibit changes such as an increased ability to concentrate on memories,[9] feelings of time dilation,[9][10] abstract and distractive thought patterns (can cause indecisiveness),[10] phonetic experimentation with vowels, consonants, or click consonants (known as glossolalia), and epiphanies about life.[9] In a way, mushrooms allow what would typically be bypassed by the brain's own natural filters to be magnified, along with the ideas and emotions that may accompany such thoughts.

(...)Higher doses carry the increased possibility of a surreal event known as ego death,[10] whereby the user loses the sense of boundaries between their self and the environment, creating a sort of perceived universal unity. Users may experience intense feelings of connectivity with a higher power. Contradictory emotions, such as euphoria and despair, can be experienced simultaneously.[10] A sense of paranoia may be present,[9] and if provoked enough, could culminate into a bad trip. However, the possibility of a bad trip happening can be reduced by a comfortable set and setting.

In 2006, a government funded, randomized and double-blinded study by Johns Hopkins University,[14] studied the spiritual effects of psilocybin mushrooms. The study involved 36 college-educated adults who had never tried psilocybin or had a drug abuse history and had religious or spiritual interests; the average age of the participants was 46 years. The participants were closely observed for eight-hour intervals in a laboratory while under the influence of psilocybin mushrooms. One-third of the participants reported the experience was the single most spiritually significant experience of their lifetimes and more than two-thirds reported it was among the top five most spiritually significant experiences. Two months after the study, 79 percent of the participants reported increased wellbeing or satisfaction; friends, relatives, and associates confirmed this. The study also found "about a third of subjects reported significant fear, with some also reporting transient feelings of paranoia."

Doesn't that remind some of OBE exit symptomes, aswell as spiritual enlightenment?

*takes a deep breath*

I hereby state that I believe that these mushrooms help humans to tune into the proper frequency to contact higher sources, alien life forms, the Creators of our planet and race. :idea: :)

ps. I love these forums. This sort of mental stimulation is what keeps me alive sometimes. ds.

[Beekeeper]

But I reiterate that there are other ways to tune into this state. I'm not interested in advocating psychoactive plant use here, only in conveying Hancock's interesting ideas . Just so it's clear.

[Beekeeper]

Graham Hancock expresses satisfaction with Strassman’s conclusion, saying he finds it plausible that parallel dimensions exist to ours that vibrate at their own frequencies and remain invisible unless approached through altered states of consciousness. He goes on to state that these dimensions seem to be inhabited by beings who are non-physical in our dimension but who would like to acquire permanently physical forms and who have a long-term interest in us. He believes they have manipulated human affairs in the guise of supernatural teachers and such.

Because of the frequency with which DNA is seen in such trances, Hancock goes on to speculate on why. He offers this thought:

If, hypothetically, one was the master of an astonishingly advanced biotechnology, and wished to record a vast amount of information in an indelible and as near as possible immortal form, then it would be difficult to think of a more suitable recording medium than DNA. For only DNA would stay the same through all the vicissitudes and transformations that evolution might bring about in the course of life on a planet, and if enough DNA were given over to this task, then the genome of all living creatures would still be carrying copies of the original recording billions of years later. Moreover, although a certain amount is known about the 3% of our DNA gathered up in our genes, nothing at all is known about the function of the other 97% so- called ‘junk DNA’. (p553)

He adds to his theory that nature may have evolved in such a way as to allow us to access the information in our DNA during trance state. This information would be actual messages in a system of language. He gives credit to the late Terence McKenna for first suggesting this idea after spending a month in the Amazon drinking ayahuasca supplemented with psilocybin mushrooms.

The Swiss anthropologist Jeremy Narby developed the concept to hypothesise how entities or several entities put the messages in place. He points out that DNA may be seen as an extreme technology …because there is no other word to qualify this duplicable, information-storing module. DNA is only ten atoms wide and as such constitutes an ultimate technology. It is organic and so miniaturised that it approaches the limits of material existence. (p559)

We are reminded that there is room for hidden messages in the “125 billion miles of submicroscopic strands of DNA, 10 atoms wide, estimated to be folded up within the cells of each and every adult human body.” Again, Hancock suggests that such technology would work in conjunction with the cultural preconceptions of any creature above a certain level of intelligence. It would wait in the DNA for activation by the right sort of brain with the right sort of electrochemical trigger. It would also provide adaptive advantages. (p561)

DNA may play a role in the memory of experiences, or it may be one of the most basic connections between the energetic and material reality. I see levels of existence as such:

-Fundamental Level; pure awareness

-Quantum Level, where awareness focuses energy to manifest matter

-DNA could be the most basic matter-manifestation of awareness to incarnate into the physical for creating life.

DNA could possibly be the pre-programmed instructions of an incarnation. However my experiences have indicated to me that our awareness exists at a more fundamental level, that living and non-living matter is a result of standing wave resonant energies, manifested by awareness and intent. From this perspective, DNA may be nothing more than an elegant, elaborate creation of our awareness's intention, a physical expression of our development in some aspect.

There is also the factor of free will, while we're imbued with certain characteristics related to our DNA, we may choose paths that have nothing to do with those characteristics. Even identical twins are normally very different and original from each other in their personalities and life choices.

If anything I see DNA as POSSIBLY being a tool of the incarnation process, but I have experienced existence in a state that has allowed me to access vast information and perceive vast amounts of energy without any physical form. So I don't believe DNA is part of spirituality, but simply part of the incarnation process, if anything, and may contain some information due to this. It is interesting to note that the DNA double helix is a golden spiral, another correlation with sacred geometry.

All of our experiences are stored in our higher selves at the fundamental level of existence of awareness, so it doesn't seem logical for DNA to have a primary role in a process of anything more than an incarnation . Just my thoughts I figured I'd share, thanks for sharing information from the book, it is definitely thought provoking.

Here's a speculation.. what if DNA is in part related to the filters of our perception, and as it changes and degrades ( our DNA is constantly changing, being damaged, and being altered by radiation/free radicals, viruses, prions, evolution, etc ), our filters change or deminish, and we are eventually exposed to pure perception without interpretation? Maybe this is one interpretation of death... or of spiritual evolution expressed through the DNA double helix.

[Beekeeper]

Malevolent T and Leyla, that's what I like about the book, it leads us to generate so many suppositions of our own. I've had a few new thoughts about some things as a result of reading it. I doubt he'd be entirely right about everything but it is interesting, isn't it?

I promise to try very hard to make another post tomorrow so you get a better idea of where he's heading.

It would interesting if it did generate a whole lot of discussion, argument and conjecture.

[CFTraveler]

In Siberia there are tribes that state mother spirits appear in animal form and abduct the souls of future shamans, bringing them to a huge tree in the spirit world when they are born. This tree has an odd shape with its top broken off and every branch bears a bird’s nest. The raven appears as teacher to educate the souls. Those in the upper branches become stronger and more important than those in the lower nests.



Ok, I read this and chills went down my spine. I had this dream on thanksgiving 2005, and wrote about it in 2006(fourth post down):
http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewto ... 18&start=0 (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=5518&start=0)

[hasalameth]

But I reiterate that there are other ways to tune into this state. I'm not interested in advocating psychoactive plant use here, only in conveying Hancock's interesting ideas . Just so it's clear.

Neither am I. Drugs are bad, mmkay? 8) All shortcuts have their prize.


As for the "they created us to play around with and use us" thing, when I was very young, as soon as I was introduced to computer / video games, I formed a theory in my mind that reality as we know it, is just a super advanced "video game" for another, way more developed creature. My argument was something like: "Take a look at our modern video games. They are quite realistic. What if the characters in the games have developed some sort of consciousness, within their 2D world? Take another look at them. Consider that we, against all odds, survive and keep developing, how advanced do you think the video games will be in like three thousand years?" Another theory I had, actually from a very young age, was that we are all super advanced robots.

I can feel it! Here we go! Science and Philosophy are closing in on each other! Soon they are dating, and after a couple of decades or so, they will give birth to their lovechild: Understanding. I am so getting this book beekeeper, thanks a lot for keeping us enlightened and mentally satisfied!

also, another disturbing fact kicks in here... if we were created and are observed by the higher beings, then all our possible thoughts and ideas must have been pre-programmed, or at least the program that would generate them must have been put there by someone else, who already thought of everything, so we are not "discovering" or "coming up" with anything, just trying to keep up with our creators...

In Siberia there are tribes that state mother spirits appear in animal form and abduct the souls of future shamans, bringing them to a huge tree in the spirit world when they are born. This tree has an odd shape with its top broken off

I also had a similar projection/lucid dream where I was going through this forest of giant 300 ft tall trees, on the "north" trail. I was following a bear, that ended up flying onto some branches of one of the trees. I flew with it, and it took me to the very top of these giant trees, the tops were cut off like telephone poles, they were all lined up and got taller in an orderly progression. I mentally asked it how high up and mentally received the answer 300 ft. I followed the bear along the tops of these giant trees until I reached this ancient looking dog, it had a gargoyle-like appearance. The sky and landscape from being at seemingly the top of the world was indescribably beautiful, the sky, clouds, moonlight, and surrounding mountains. I had an encounter with huge, mysterious dog, and returned to my body.

[Beekeeper]

Amazing about the dreams guys! I was surprised recently to find similar things looking through my dream journals (for other things). This book covers so much, it resonates with a lot of experiences reported here on this site. Anyway, here's a bit more:

Did you know that DMT, serotonin, psilocybin, ibogaine and lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) are all of the tryptamine family of molecules? (Of course you did!) Did you know that the co-discoverer of the structure of DNA, Francis Crick frequently used LSD (legally, in the 1950s) as a thinking tool, admitting privately to colleagues that he was under its influence when he unravelled the structure of DNA? (What, you knew that too! My you’re knowledgable.) Naturally, this leads Hancock to speculate on whether Crick picked up information on DNA from a recording system in his own DNA but he believes that not just anyone will walk off with such incredible insights as a result of exposure to hallucinogenic substances. What is necessary is “a prepared mind and a cool head to grasp the import of the information received.” (p.572)

According to Hancock, Crick always felt that the big challenge to solve was not “how life perpetuated itself through natural selection after DNA had come on the scene but how it came on the scene in the first place.” (p.572) Crick was so highly respected, he could get away with saying all kinds of things and the scientific community would listen. In 1981, he proposed that DNA could not have arisen on earth by chance and had, in fact, been sent here by an alien civilization in the form of a resilient bacteria on ships programmed to crash into certain sorts of planets at certain stages of development. Reminding us that this is Crick’s hypothesis, Hancock adds, that if it were true, we cannot rule out that such aliens were sufficiently advanced to record meaningful information in the language of DNA,
If they were clever enough, they might even have transcribed the entire accumulated knowledge of their culture into DNA to await the evolution and attention of intelligent species on whichever planets anywhere in the universe the original cargoes of bacteria had happened to land… (p.574)

[Korpo]

In 1981, he proposed that DNA could not have arisen on earth by chance and had, in fact, been sent here by an alien civilization in the form of a resilient bacteria on ships programmed to crash into certain sorts of planets at certain stages of development.

That touches on the theory of Von Neumann machines - how could a galactic civilisation spread? It could for example send out automated craft to seed life on another planet, then build copies of itself and spread the wave. Billions of years later no trace of the original wave is left - the new probes have been launched, the old one was "used up" and lost.

[EDIT: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_Probe as well. Von Neumann also devised the some of the principles modern computers are built on, which is called Von-Neumann machine architecture]

Oliver

[Beekeeper]

Hancock discusses in detail a number of convincing reasons that Crick gave for believing that it is impossible that the DNA currently on earth evolved here on earth. I’ll leave that to those of you planning to buy the book to explore.

We’re informed that DNA has four chemical letters and it is the ordering of these letters that determines the organism. With these letters come 64 possible triplets (condons). Sixty-one of these stand for one amino acid and the other three the chain. Living cells use amino acids to construct proteins but there are only 20 amino acids used for this purpose. So, there is ambiguity with most triplets coding for more than one amino acid. There are two exceptions of amino acids that DNA treats as too important for any ambiguity to exist. These are methionine and tryptophan, the source molecule for tryptamine hallucinogens.

Within DNA is what appears to be a high degree of redundancy with the double helix representing an original and a copy, then there’s RNA copying specific segments of code in DNA to initiate protein synthesis. The rest of the DNA, we are told, is off line while these specific segments are activated. Since the genes only make up 3-5% of cells, there is an issue of even greater apparent redundancy when we consider non-coding or “junk” DNA. All we know about this 97-95% of the DNA is that it contains huge amount of information written in the same language as the genetic code but without coding for the construction of proteins. While inquiring into the function of this so-called “junk DNA,” scientists have discovered that it is, of course, very important but they have also made another interesting discovery.

Hancock relates Zipf’s Law (and what follows I found tremendously interesting)

He [Zipf] studied the texts in many different languages and ranked the words in order of frequency. What he found, which has since proved to be true whether the language is English or Inuit, Japanese or Xhosa, Arabic or Urdu, is that a direct, exact, unvarying and utterly counter-intuitive mathematical relationship exists between the rank of a word and the actual frequency of occurrence of that word. No matter which text he selected, when Zipf created a histogram and plotted word frequency against word rank, the surprising result was a straight line “with a slope of -1 for every human language.”
(p 588)

Experimentally, scientists evaluated the coding regions of DNA and, as one would expect, they did not adhere to Zipf’s Law. What was really surprising, however, was that, in every case, the non-coding (junk) regions turned out to demonstrate a perfect Zipf Law linear plot! This obliges us to see to see DNA sequences as containing a structured language that may carry some type of message.

A further test, developed in the 1950s by information theorist Claude Shannon, was subsequently applied, also supporting the likelihood that non-coding DNA functions as a language.

[Korpo]

We’re informed that DNA has four chemical letters and it is the ordering of these letters that determines the organism. With these letters come 64 possible triplets (condons). Sixty-one of these stand for one amino acid and the other three the chain.

64? 64??

Go, 64 I Ching hexagrams! I knew them Taoists had it all figured out. ;)

Oliver

[Beekeeper]

Actually, now you mention that, I've come across that particular observation before. 8)

[CFTraveler]

Plus mitochondrial DNA is not recombinant, so all females have approximately the same mitochondrial DNA of their earliest female ancestor, plus a few mutations.

[CFTraveler]

h. wrote:
also, another disturbing fact kicks in here... if we were created and are observed by the higher beings, then all our possible thoughts and ideas must have been pre-programmed, or at least the program that would generate them must have been put there by someone else, who already thought of everything, so we are not "discovering" or "coming up" with anything, just trying to keep up with our creators... I disagree. Just because someone else put the ability to think in us it doesn't mean that our thoughts are preconceived; it just means that the ability to think was engineered to be a certain way.
It's like something out of a children's book that I really like:
(one dog telling another one about humans):
"Humans are complicated, Moxie. I told you they are a mystery. But here are a few things that I know. Humans are clever. They can see very well, and they can put things together to make new things. They change the world everywhere they go. This is why we dogs call them masters. But it is obvious that their smell sense is very weak, and the way they think and communicate is limited too- to barking, mainly. For example, sometimes humans think by barking out loud. But I was told that often humans think by barking in their minds. The inside of a human's mind must be a very noisy place."
"I like barking." Moxie said. (the puppy)"So do most dogs," said Sage. "But dogs are more complete animals than humans are. sure, we dogs can bark with our mouths, and we can growl. But we dont speak or think in just a mouth-way. we speak and think withou our bodies, with our eyes, and with our tails. but we mainly think and speak in smells.
-Excerpted from "The Boy who spoke Dog" by Clay Morgan.

I think our DNA is manifested in real time by our higher self awareness, it is part of the process of our base level awareness manifesting reality. What I mean to say is, that DNA if anything is inherent to the manifestation of living organic beings from pure awareness, that it is an elegant, real-time expression of both our current form and function, and also possibly of the higher knowledge/language/experience of our higher selves added in there to boot.

As we come closer to integrating our base consciousness with our higher selves, this dormant DNA may manifest in real time and become active. It would be the equivalent of evolution, but it happens as a chain reaction of awareness evolving, then DNA, then the biological representation of that awareness.

This could also explain how in evolution, there seems to be great gaps, instead of small linear changes or gradual progress, we may become enlightened to some degree, and manifest our DNA in real time to reflect this. This manifestation of more active DNA may be what activates our otherwise dormant psychic abilities.

This is just me rambling conjecture, I have not read the book, but I wouldn't be surprised if the book contains a similar theory. What I think makes my understanding unique or different from that in the book that's being quoted, is that I believe our physical, biological self is a real-time manifestation of our awareness. We exist as awareness, the fundamental energy, that can manifest matter, which we manifest into a real time representation of DNA, which in turn reflects our awareness in the form of a biological life form representation.

I am not so sure about DNA being the most efficient/compact molecule we manifest however, Mitochondria are incredibly efficient at producing energy (and might easily be considered life forms in of themselves ), and ribosomes are incredibly small efficient molecules that are responsible for taking RNA and producing more DNA. It's been some time since my biology courses, and I have yet to verify this cellular activity myself. I have read shamanistic ayahuasca trip reports of people taking the brew, and healing themselves by rearranging their own DNA. These reports further support our ability to manipulate our DNA in real time, even if sometimes at an unconscious level, and may explain the chain of how self healing works.. energy -> DNA -> biological healing.

[hasalameth]

*Is happy that it has found the time to catch up on this thread* :D

I find it very exciting, those frequently occurring numbers and constants, that do not only exist anywhere and everywhere, they may also be used to describe everything and anything. Even though I am a fan of words and a lover of languages, I have always felt that numbers, or Math actually, is the perfect tool for engineering, discovering and programming... When I have deep moments of insight, I actually feel like a computer program connecting to the matrix-like master program that is the Universe... No jokes! :)

CFT: That Dog story was so cute and still very insightful, I will totally read it to my future kids. Thank you.



I disagree. Just because someone else put the ability to think in us it doesn't mean that our thoughts are preconceived; it just means that the ability to think was engineered to be a certain way.

True, but in that case it feels as if mankind is just a tool for another superior species, a lab rat if you'd like. But I try and see it in a more positive manner, what a great honor to gather information and help my Creator/s with coming to terms with, well, everything...


This is really interesting considering females have more DNA that males because the X chromosome is a lot longer than the Y chromosome. Females have XX while males have XY.

Perhaps this is why the interest in the "daughters of man." That would mean more information can be stored in us.

I have always seen the female sex as far superior to us guys, ok, the two sexes balance out each other in the end, but I still feel better when hanging out with ladies than with burping, smelling, sweaty "men". :D I wish the world was ruled by a Matriarch.


Did you know that the co-discoverer of the structure of DNA, Francis Crick frequently used LSD (legally, in the 1950s) as a thinking tool, admitting privately to colleagues that he was under its influence when he unravelled the structure of DNA?

Nope I did not! Again I am not promoting illegal drugs, just pointing out that there are many sources that claim that prior to Siddharta having his Enlightenment, he lived solely on the cannabis plant, eating seeds etc. And we know what happened to him :) I think the trace of the stardust DNA can be found in every living organism in this world, everything that has a nerveous system generates Psi-energy = aura = accessible information. Could it be so that the creations use each other's different DNA and molecules in order to work together for a common goal?

Ruling out that "aliens" and "angels" and all those superior beings have had a very active role in the evolution of homo sapiens sapiens and her civilizations (which I believe they have), shouldn't everything be mapped out and included in the code? Adaptability, reactions based on signals such as different leaps in technology and other developement etc... Point being - if it's all planned out - what's the purpose of it all? Surely the wonderful people with this advanced technology, should have very high causes and goals. I feel that colonializing space seems like a very "simple" goal.

ps. I read a couple of years ago that scientists decided on a way to measure a civilizations developement, in the theroy they had somehow "calculated" how advanced the different alien civilizations out there in space should be, this ended up in a three level scale, 1, 2 and 3. According to the same group of scientists, our civilization hasn't even reached level 1... :) ds.

ps2. may be considered totally off-topic, but in a way not at all; Are there any other Battlestar Galactica fans out there? The whole philosophy between the Cylons created by humans, the 13 colonies (taurus, sagittarus etc... Earth) and all the other thoughts seem very non-fictional somehow, and a lot of thoughts and ideas that arose from watching the series, are very similar to those that came from reading this thread. Just checking. ds2.

[CFTraveler]

About Francis Crick: (Hold on to your pantaloons, kids):
Look up Rosalind Franklin and see what it says about her (this is your homework). I will only quote I thing:
"the two men (Watson and Crick) visited Franklin's lab when she was out of town and persuaded to let her boss to let them take a peek at her data. ... They stole Franklin's findings and got away clean, tossing her a bone of achnowledgement in their seminal paper, which won them the biggest award in science. In his best selling book, Watson actually boasts about the theft, deriding their colleague for witholding her findings for publication in her own paper, which came out in the same journal-Nature-where theirs had appeared just a few months later. At the time, no reviewer... cried foul, although in later years some heroic attempts at correcting the record were made." How do you like them apples?
-Candace Pert, 1997- who had a hard time getting acknowledged for discovering endorphins, and was denied the Nobel prize for being a woman and/or PhD.
(My italics)

[hasalameth]

:cry:

Makes me think of the rumors that Einstein worked very hard to hide the fact that his wife helped him a lot with his work, also that T.A. Edison only got the patent for the light-bulb because he beat his female opponant to the patent-place. Or was it Bell with the Phone? Bleh 1am, where's the clarity?

[CFTraveler]

I thought Edison beat Tesla to the patent? I thought it had to do with charisma in his case, if I remember correctly. I do know that when Mme. Curie discovered Radium, they wanted to give Henri the credit but he was bigger than the establishment, and she got the deserved credit.

[hasalameth]

Again, a couple of primitive primates walk up to something in the nature they see and go "hey, that's my tree, I discovered it, and it will bare my name for eternity", the other one goes "hey no way, I saw it first" and a dispute arises and they fight all day long, and the tree is just standing there, silent, eternal... 8)

anyhow back to topic... Beekeeper, I'm craving for more wisdom! :)

[Beekeeper]

Sorry Hasalameth, I sat down to write it but somehow it didn't happen. Feeling a little down today. Having one of those existential crisises we all have every now and then. Find it hard to manifest anything much when I get this way. Usually bounce back quickly though :wink:

[hasalameth]

Sorry Hasalameth, I sat down to write it but somehow it didn't happen. Feeling a little down today. Having one of those existential crisises we all have every now and then. Find it hard to manifest anything much when I get this way. Usually bounce back quickly though :wink:

Awww I hope you get better! :( But remember, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Cause and effect ;)

Maybe this is a sign I should get my lazy ass going and buy the book myself instead of freeloading off of your time and effort :lol:

[Sensorium]

Thank you Beekeeper for doing this review. Your writing is quite good and you put your quotes into context very well.

Existential crisises are not usually fun, so I hope you find the answer to yours.


About Francis Crick: (Hold on to your pantaloons, kids):
Look up Rosalind Franklin and see what it says about her (this is your homework). I will only quote I thing:
"the two men (Watson and Crick) visited Franklin's lab when she was... Snip )

The reasons, not just ones, but reasons non the less, for Franklin's relative obscurity are some what more complicated than Dr. Pert suggests. I reffer you to this wonderfully complete and even handed article in Physics Today: http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-56/iss-3/p42.html

Professional academia as a field is not known for its friendliness or for producing anything of worth without controversy over who's idea it was. It seems that in this particular case misogyny took a back seat to clashing personalities and oportunism.

[CFTraveler]

Thanks for your wonderful piece of information. To be fair Dr. Pert wasn't only talking about misogyny in these cases, but the M.D. vs. Ph.D. struggle in scientific research also, and the 'old boy' network and politics. One of the things that got her in trouble was her outspoken ways (to put it gently). I just used the above quote to illustrate how two respected academicians can brag about doing what they did, and get away with it.
Politics!

[Sensorium]

To be fair Dr. Pert wasn't only talking about misogyny in these cases, but the M.D. vs. Ph.D. struggle in scientific research also, and the 'old boy' network and politics.

I suspect I read too much into her statement.

[CFTraveler]

That was my fault. I put the stress into part of the argument.

[hasalameth]

I'm semi-back now, and I instantly leaped to this thread, since I just love it :)

Beekeeper, I hope you're feeling better, and that you'll share more info with us, it's really appreciated. Thanks...

[Beekeeper]

Gosh, yes I'm better! There's not much more to go but I just can't make it a priority right now. I'm still reading the forums so I don't lose touch but long posts will be on hold for the next few weeks. I will finish it, so watch this space (but wait a few weeks :wink:)

[Sleeping Cookie]

Thanks Beekeeper for writing about this book. Sounds very interesting. I just ordered it.

[Beekeeper]

You're welcome, Cookie. :D

[Sleeping Cookie]

Btw, yesterday we were watching a History channel documentary named "Ancient Aliens" and guess who was there? Graham Hancok...

[Beekeeper]

So Cooks, what did he have to say? :D

[Sleeping Cookie]

He states that somewhere along the way humans have lost memory of a big part of human history (amnesia) since there are so many clues in our ancient history about aliens, such as the pyramids where some of them we have no clue exactly when it was built, with their amazing accurate architectural technology. He also gives an example about some spectacular monuments built in a great altitude in Bolivia, where no way this could have been done only by humans.

I really recommend this documentary. So interesting.

[Beekeeper]

Cool guys, I'll definitely check it out. :D

[Sleeping Cookie]

Just wanted to say that thanks to this topic I purchased the book and can't stop reading it. Excellent book. He explains his theories in such a convincing and interesting way.
Thanks Beekeeper.

[Beekeeper]

Okay, this one's dedicated to Cooks, who doesn't need to read it because he/she bought the book! :lol:

Hancock makes the point that the original supernatural experiences at the base of mainstream religions are in the distant past and that today’s salaried priests, rabbis and mullahs present themselves not just as administrators but as “true and exclusive intermediaries between humanity and otherworldly powers.” Thus, they never present us with any new supernatural experiences of their own.

He believes rot sets in when cultures devalue shamans and place spiritual trust in a sacerdotal class that can only teach what it has been taught but not what it has experienced. He identifies Christ as shaman,

It is not only his pedigree as half human, half-divine hybrid that makes him so, or his heaven-sent gifts as healer. His ordeal of crucifixion and piercing followed by death and subsequent resurrection as a spiritualised being equipped with the power to save souls is essentially the story of the wounded man – the story that is told by all shamans everywhere of their own initiatory agonies, death and resurrection. P604

[I struggle a bit with the last part of this as I tend to accept the accounts of Christ’s death are literal, though I am aware of writings that argue otherwise.]

Hancock discusses the early Christian Gnostics, who believed in knowledge through direct experience and that reality could only be experienced in a visionary state. (Apparently the Jivaro of Ecuador shared the belief that the everyday life was illusion and that reality could be accessed through trance experiences). There is evidence that Gnostic Christian groups practised austerities and possibly consumed psychotropic mushrooms. Their views of reality were actively repressed from the 4th century.

Vestiges of the shamanistic origins of Christianity can be found in the symbolism around Santa Claus and in the cult of saints. For instance, St Christophoros is often portrayed as a therianthrope with the body of a man and the head of a dog. Saint Sebastian, pierced by multiple Roman arrows, is also recognisable as the wounded man (again, I have trouble with this association, as Sebastian’s wounds were not received in a shamanic trance but were literal wounds. Am I missing something here?) He continues to describe saints Ursula, Justina and Stanislaus who were similarly hacked or pierced. St Theresa of Avila is more convincing as she had an angelic piercing through the heart in trance state.

[Beekeeper]

The first question asked Jeanne d’Arc when she was interrogated by the Inquisition was if she knew anything of those who went to Sabbath with the fairies or had assisted at the assembly at the fountain of the fairies near Domremy, around which danced malignant spirits. She admitted she visited the Tree of the Mistress, or the Tree of the Fairies, nearby which was a spring with healing water.

Dianne Purkiss, an English don at Oxford University, reports that the Inquisition often mixed the terms for fairies- “white ladies,” “good ladies” and “Our Lady.” This was still the case hundreds of years later with Bernadette Soubirous at the Shrine of Lourdes.

The fountain of Lourdes had a reputation of miraculous healing and was associated with fairies long before the Virgin apparently appeared to Bernadette. Interestingly, Bernadette referred to the lady in the apparitions as uno petito damizela, a little lady. She reputedly carried a rosary, though Hancock dismisses this as expedient. She wore white, another association with the “white ladies,” and instructed Bernadette to eat a certain herb. Hancock finds himself questioning if, in fact, she was instructed to consume a certain mushroom. He also points out that Lourdes stands near the geographical centre where the greatest number of painted caves dating from the Upper Palaeolithic have been found.

Bernadette reportedly fell into trances when encountering “Our Lady.”

As explanation for mass witnessing of spiritual phenomenon, Hancock provides a theory by Michael Persinger, head of the Neuroscience Lab at Laurentian University, Ontario. “His work has shown that certain, almost imperceptible electromagnetic fields, often associated with earth quakes and other seismic events, seem to interact with the human brain in such a way as to trigger temporarily altered states of consciousness every bit as deep and every bit as ‘hallucinatory’ as those induced by drugs like DMT, psilocybin and LSD. These effects are especially pronounced in the case of individuals with unusually excitable temporal lobes. ” p616 He has proven this to be so under laboratory conditions.

After an appearance of the Virgin Mary in 1879 the village of Knock in County Mayo, Ireland, Christians flocked to the field where it happened. A large globe with golden light appeared to three men, six women and two children. Within the globe three glowing humans were seen, two men and a woman. One man held a book open. The woman wore white and was described as “strikingly white.”

Hancock similarly attributes the Marian apparitions at Fatima to the same experiences of shamans elsewhere. He notes that the children experienced visitations by other beings that they construed as angels, in the two years prior to the experience at Fatima. An angel, whiter than driven snow, appeared to them amidst a strong wind that shook the trees, as is sometimes reported in UFO sitings. The Marian apparitions subsequently experienced, occurred near a sacred spot called Cova da Iris (the Cave of St Irene). A blinding flash of light drew the children to a hovering light above a tree in the midst of which they saw “a little woman” who instructed them to return once a month. Eventually, others experienced phenomena such as buzzing, loud bangs and hovering clouds and changing colours and a globe in the sky, while the enraptured children conversed with invisible spiritual beings. Two Jesuits who had been sent to debunk the children, included the globe witnessed by all, a white cloud and petals falling from the sky (entopic dots?) in their report. On another occasion, witnesses saw a multicoloured disk in the sky that plunged down and then up towards the sun. A witness with binoculars said he saw a ladder with two entities emerging from it. At both Knock and Fatima, hundreds reported cures for their life-threatening illnesses.

[CFTraveler]

Years ago, when Persinger's experiments were featured in various articles, I asked myself- if certain frequencies excite the temporal lobe to create the selfsame phenomenon in those who experience it, my question is, who put the recording in our brains in the first place?
Kind of like finding a hidden message encoded in our brain structure. I frankly don't think the phenomenon is accidental organic happenstance. JMO. :lol:

[Beekeeper]

And is it always the same "recording" from mass event to mass event or is it in fact the perceiving of a co-existing reality that isn't normally available to perception?

[Sleeping Cookie]

I finally finished the book this week. All I can say is WOW... Mind expanding...
Consequently I bouhgt the book "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" by Rick Strassman.

[Beekeeper]

We look forward to the review then :wink: (Umm, and don't mention that I'm not quite done yet here).

[Mishell]

I just got this at the library yesterday. Can't wait to start it. :D

Thanks for all the info Beekeeper.

[Beekeeper]

You're most welcome, Mishell. :D

[Sleeping Cookie]

Hmmm hmmmm... Beekeeper, after reading your super professional review, I'm afraid I won't meet the "standards".
But I will do my best...

[journyman161]

Years ago, when Persinger's experiments were featured in various articles, I asked myself- if certain frequencies excite the temporal lobe to create the selfsame phenomenon in those who experience it, my question is, who put the recording in our brains in the first place?
Kind of like finding a hidden message encoded in our brain structure. I frankly don't think the phenomenon is accidental organic happenstance. JMO. :lol:There is a state of mind involving Alpha state of the brain & a certain physical action that places the mind into a 'learning' state - the reaction almost bypasses the conscious all together to allow 'programming' to occur.

Like the frequencies mentioned, one has to wonder just why the human mind would have developed such a trait or ability. There would appear to be no evolutionary reason or imperative for it to develop.

[journyman161]

What I like about Graham Hancock is his depth. Just when you think you've got his message on a subject & are wondering why there is still so much book left, he brings in something that alters the whole perspective of his subject.

I was in that state of mind about the hallucinogen history, the consciousness issue, the commonality of the various myths & experiences in altered states when suddenly we're looking at philological tests being applied to junk DNA.

Now THAT is a fascinating dataset. DNA has long been a puzzle, one that creationists didn't seem to really make use of (maybe it was too scientific for them to get how unlikely it was?) but to have the non-coding sections responding to language tests is a bit mind-blowing.

[Beekeeper]

...but to have the non-coding sections responding to language tests is a bit mind-blowing.

That was my absolute favourite bit, Jman.

[journyman161]

It's an interesting point. (interesting being as much an understatement as it's nice to have air :lol:)

DNA is a puzzle because of how it works - most people think it's the brains of a cell but it's really just a factory that responds to instructions. While it might be theoretically feasible for the bases to form & to then produce proteins, nobody seems to have found the mechanism that makes it all happen - any attempt to track down the physical causes leads down a regression path.

There's also been the puzzle of all the extra bases in virtually every genome - nature uses evolution to meet outside environmental imperatives, but it is about as parsimonious as a banker finding out he's loaning his own money - to have all that extra genome is against the rules for evolution.

(note: I am not trying to start an evolution/creation debate here - evolution has nothing to do with initial creation - that's a furphy thrown up by those who don't understand how things work - evolution doesn't exist until there is a goal seeking mechanism to employ it ie. Life; Creation is about where the Life came from)

Having the so-called 'junk' bases follow the rules of language opens the field way wider than just the development of DNA - not only is there an apparent need for a creative moment, that creation has to be from a high order of development.

I haven't gotten very far into the part about the genome-language yet but there is one immediate problem I see; this couldn't have been a one-off implant of the genome into Earth's ecosystem. The original life on Earth was very simple & had distinctly limited genomes - for the end product of all this to have a much larger genome that still obeys the rules of structured language either the entire development has to be planned ahead in minute detail or else there has to have been ongoing development work done as evolution worked its way up the ladder of complexity.

I think the first is unlikely - being able to predict & control the development of such a complex system from a single point of origin is a MUCH higher level of complexity than the initial development of DNA itself - monitoring progress with on-going modification & additions would be a far simpler task.

Just my thoughts so far...

[Beekeeper]

...monitoring progress with on-going modification & additions would be a far simpler task.


Begging the question how exactly that would be done.

[journyman161]

Yes... interesting proposition isn't it? Just how would one go about monitoring & modifying such a system?

For some time there has been a theory, with some evidence, of 'punctuated equilibrium'

The "punctuated equilibrium" theory of Niles Eldredge and Stephen Jay Gould was proposed as a criticism of the traditional Darwinian theory of evolution. Eldredge and Gould observed that evolution tends to happen in fits and starts, sometimes moving very fast, sometimes moving very slowly or not at all. On the other hand, typical variations tend to be small. Therefore, Darwin saw evolution as a slow, continuous process, without sudden jumps. However, if you study the fossils of organisms found in subsequent geological layers, you will see long intervals in which nothing changed ("equilibrium"), "punctuated" by short, revolutionary transitions, in which species became extinct and replaced by wholly new forms. Instead of a slow, continous progression, the evolution of life on Earth seems more like the life of a soldier: long periods of boredom interrupted by rare moments of terror.From Principia Cybernetica (http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/PUNCTUEQ.html)

Now 'what if...?'

Given a sentient with the ability to create DNA in all its fantastic complexity, one would think they'd have a mechanism for making unobtrusive ongoing changes, & we could easily have the evidence of their machinations in the sudden changes to things - a new DNA complex causing sudden leaps in the life forms extant at the time.

Maybe we finally know the purpose of the 'greys' with their weird experiments on abductees?

[Beekeeper]

Maybe we finally know the purpose of the 'greys' with their weird experiments on abductees?

If this is so, the changes to the DNA aren't showing up in the next generation of human children, well not in an obvious way. This is, when you consider how long they've been interfering/intervening (if we're to run with the suggestions Hancock makes in his book). It's possible they haven't gotten the next big change right yet or that it's simply not conspicuous.

[journyman161]

Ah, but the UFO-abductees don't tell of being changed, they tell of being probed, measured & poked - that smacks more of the evaluation phase than an active change time.

Apparently the next 'punctuation is set for 12 after 20... :lol:

[journyman161]

But more seriously...

It makes sense that DNA would be created with potential but not certainty - unless it was specific to a planet & to a plan, the uncertainties would be way beyond calculation, & the more complex the original DNA, the wilder the calculations get. An remember we have no record of highly complex organisms (in a DNA sense) at the beginning - bacteria, even those that produce the stromatolites, are simple compared to mammals.

The idea of producing a simple set that somehow moves into complexity, while still maintaining a complex language structure is difficult to conceive.

But creating a simple set with potential, & then guiding it as it grows, makes the concept much easier to envisage.

Now, if altered consciousness provides a repeatable access to a relam as consistent as Hancock shows it to be, then the obvious experiment monitors would be the beings encountered within that realm - they could sample, monitor & adjust across time as humans found their way into higher consciousness.

Now if you add in the 2% of the population claimed as 'natural' altered state (AS) experiencers, maybe we're talking about the 'controls' for the experiment - predisposed to AS, they would be regularly available for testing even if the hallucinogen route was unavailable.

Keep in mind the experimenters don't actually have to change the genome radically - they can make very minor changes, wait for it to percolate through the populace, & then alter the environment to ensure it becomes dominant.

We already know that humans have an attraction towards particular types of strangers - it is claimed it is to ensure genetic diversity but given it goes often against the social lines acceptable in society, it is a strange choice for evolution to make - too many of the choices wind up with the chooser becoming an outcast from their peers.

Just speculating...

[Beekeeper]

Ah, but the UFO-abductees don't tell of being changed, they tell of being probed, measured & poked - that smacks more of the evaluation phase than an active change time.

They tell of seeing hybrid offspring too.

That's a long time for evaluation but I guess nothing happens quickly with evolution.


Keep in mind the experimenters don't actually have to change the genome radically - they can make very minor changes, wait for it to percolate through the populace,

Or percolate through time.


& then alter the environment to ensure it becomes dominant.

So, how they might alter the environment boggles the mind. Could be subtle, gradual and sporadic or obvious, sudden and pervasive.


We already know that humans have an attraction towards particular types of strangers

I've seen docos that suggest the opposite, that xenophobia is to some degree hardwired. Then again, I saw something the other night that suggested close association between Neanderthals and Homo Sapien Sapiens, to the point of shared hunting, exchange of culture and cohabitation.


...particular types of strangers

Particular?


...but given it goes often against the social lines acceptable in society, it is a strange choice for evolution to make - too many of the choices wind up with the chooser becoming an outcast from their peers.

So maybe a social, spiritual evolutionary process must take place first?

The premise underlying our speculation is that the beings are benevolent, huh?

[journyman161]

They tell of seeing hybrid offspring too.

That's a long time for evaluation but I guess nothing happens quickly with evolution.Yes but the offspring seem to have problems & suffer from a lack of vitality - they might also be the test beds to see where the changes are leading.


So, how they might alter the environment boggles the mind. Could be subtle, gradual and sporadic or obvious, sudden and pervasive.Like Precession of the Equinoxes, combined with Obliquity? Maybe also the subtle budging of comet or asteroidal bodies? Perhaps the sudden changes like the abrupt rise of sea levels overnight to reduce a civilisation to isolated pockets of primitive groups who can be influenced by a stranger arriving with new ways to do things?


I've seen docos that suggest the opposite, that xenophobia is to some degree hardwired. Then again, I saw something the other night that suggested close association between Neanderthals and Homo Sapien Sapiens, to the point of shared hunting, exchange of culture and cohabitation.Xenophobia may be hardwired but sex drive is something else. And there's quite a bit of info about how we are attracted to those who aren't 'local.'


...particular types of strangers


Particular?Those who smell good...


So maybe a social, spiritual evolutionary process must take place first? Well there's pretty solid evidence across the western world as well as Asia that something like one in four children of supposedly stable families are not the progeny of the man of the family. Big sample sizes too... So maybe the sex drive over-rides the social pressures & always has?


The premise underlying our speculation is that the beings are benevolent, huh?Um... really? Why would that be so? Even if the originators of the experiment were such, there's no guarantee their inheritors are. This comes back to the discussion as to whether this game is as it was meant to be or whether it might have become corrupted along the way.

[Beekeeper]

Yes but the offspring seem to have problems & suffer from a lack of vitality - they might also be the test beds to see where the changes are leading.

But they seemed to be getting on top of that. At least that's the impression I got. *Scratches head* Jeez we get into some weird conversations on these boards.



So, how they might alter the environment boggles the mind. Could be subtle, gradual and sporadic or obvious, sudden and pervasive.Like Precession of the Equinoxes, combined with Obliquity?
Obliquity I think I get but Precession of the Equinoxes you'll have to explain.


Maybe also the subtle budging of comet or asteroidal bodies? Perhaps the sudden changes like the abrupt rise of sea levels overnight to reduce a civilisation to isolated pockets of primitive groups who can be influenced by a stranger arriving with new ways to do things?

I'm going to have to read Hancock on Atlantis, I see. If these entities can move back and forth in time, then it's possible, I guess, that they could do such enormous things and have a fair idea that that'll move things in the direction they consider desirable.

Poor dinosaurs.



I've seen docos that suggest the opposite, that xenophobia is to some degree hardwired. Then again, I saw something the other night that suggested close association between Neanderthals and Homo Sapien Sapiens, to the point of shared hunting, exchange of culture and cohabitation.Xenophobia may be hardwired but sex drive is something else. And there's quite a bit of info about how we are attracted to those who aren't 'local.'


...particular types of strangers


Particular?Those who smell good...[/quote:2bqltky6]

*Sniffs the air* By the way, have I told you about my sexy dog?
:lol:


[quote=Beekeeper]So maybe a social, spiritual evolutionary process must take place first? Well there's pretty solid evidence across the western world as well as Asia that something like one in four children of supposedly stable families are not the progeny of the man of the family. Big sample sizes too... So maybe the sex drive over-rides the social pressures & always has?


Actually the same research found a big proportion of those babies had DNA related to the father, just not the father. Normally, the infidelity would occur with someone within the society so the difference wouldn't always be conspicuous. That wouldn't necessarily prove sex drive routinely overrides social pressures only that if people (and animals- because they do it too) can get away with it, they will.

What I meant, anyway, is that we may have to evolve greater tolerance before we're ready to accept the new wave of humans, even if they look the same.




The premise underlying our speculation is that the beings are benevolent, huh?Um... really? Why would that be so?

I was clarifying. Your question answered mine.


Even if the originators of the experiment were such, there's no guarantee their inheritors are. This comes back to the discussion as to whether this game is as it was meant to be or whether it might have become corrupted along the way.

It's possibly a familiar scenario: technological progress outstripping ethical development.

[journyman161]

Precession happens because of the wobble as the Earth spins. Recent more accurate measurements have suggested there's a problem with this view - Earth doesn't precess as much compared with the rest of the Solar System as it does with the Galaxy at large. ie. the whole Solar System is 'precessing' a little - Earth just does it a bit more. The suggestion I saw is the SS is precessing with relation to Sirius.

There are a variety of effects from the peculiarities of the Earth. Precession means the sun rises on the vernal equinox (morning of March 22) in a slightly different place as the years roll by - it marches backwards through the constellations at a rate of 1º per 72 years, full cycle is 25,920 years, each constellation gets approx 2160. This is how the Ages change - where the sun rises on that date determines which 'sign' we are living in.

Obliquity changes the angle at which the Earth leans towards the sun, changing the amount of solar radiation arriving at any given time. From memory the obliquity cycle is around 42,000 years.

The lack of co-ordination between Earth day & Earth year also causes a 'movement' - the vernal equinox 'slips' by a quarter day each year around the orbit, so eventually there comes a time when it occurs all the way around the orbit.

This matters because the Earth orbit is not a perfect circle but an ellipse. When the Northern hemisphere is at its greatest angle to the sun (leaning further away from it) & winter comes to the North when the Earth is at aphelion (furthest away from the sun in the orbit) we get an ice age.

Along with this are the movements of the Solar System around the galaxy, which isn't a straight circle as it kind of bobs above & below the plane of the galaxy, the passage through spiral arms (we've not long come out of the Sirius arm I think) & how the angle of the ecliptic changes in relation to the ecliptic of the galaxy. The lining up with the galactic ecliptic is supposed to be happening now, with full line up being in 2012 - another of those annoying little 'coincidences' that make the 2012 theory so interesting.

You can see that there is any amount of room for manipulation of these things if one simply had the means. I've seen 2 schemes for how to move a planet in SciFi which are theoretically available to us (given we'd need to reach the planet with manufacturing capacity) We could move large asteroids now if we could get nuclear bombs to them.

There is solid evidence things have drastically altered in the past due to 'heavenly' influences. It doesn't have to be as dramatic as an asteroid - Charles Hapgood theorises the Earth had a 'crustal slip' within recent times & the cause could have been the close approach of an asteroid. (Einstein thought the off-centre build up of ice at the South Pole would have been enough to cause it.

There are a couple of super-volcanoes that could do the job as well - Yellowstone is past due to go off - if seems to 'tcik' every 650,000 years & it's been more than that since the last one - that's a volcano with a mouth 70 miles across!

These are just a few of the possibilities for 'altering' society to allow a restart in a new direction.


The parentage issue I mentioned simply to show it's an ongoing & endemic problem. But there is research behind the idea that, if we can, we choose to mate (but not necessarily bond) with strangers - it could be an imperative mandated by our genome - sexual reproduction gives protection from attack - sexual reproduction with strangers gives a wider range of possibilities.
It could also be something brought to us by the experimenters to make sure we don't reject the 'implants' needed to swing the planetary genome in a desired direction. :lol:

If I was a new human, I'd make sure I stayed concealed - I doubt an exposed new human would survive very long at all.

[Beekeeper]

I'm partway through this interview on human alien hybrids and it occurs to me that it resonates with things Hancock talks about in his book, http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fczhdp7NGg&feature=related

[lightningbug]

wow, thats all I can say, sounds like a fun read :D