Kundalini and Sex Drive

[Snowman23]

Has anyone else noticed a sharp drop or a complete loss of sex drive as a result of Kundalini-related phenomenon? Since possibly awakening my kundalini I have lost all interest in dating, and all that sort of typical 'teenage stuff' in general. It seems to have been stripped away along with the reduction of ego. I may still find someone attractive, but it's on a different level.

I personally find it liberating. If anyone relates, does it last?

[blacktiger057]

Yeah, once I started kundalini I noticed a difinate decrease in sexual interest. You look at the opposite sex in a totally different way. Although this is better for starting a healthy relationship.

[CFTraveler]

If I were to guess, from a technical point of view, I would say that when new energy pathways are created, then your energy is 'deflected' to other places. Judging from mythology, I think that once you adapt to your new pathways, you also increase energy flow, or amount of energy to accomodate the flow, making the sex drive come back. (Just a guess).

Looking at it in another way, I would say that you start looking at (or for) a partner that is going to nurture and support your evolvement, since a focus on physicality is part of the limited way of looking at things, and while it has its place in a relationship, it's not the sole reason or the focus for it.

I like #2 better but I'm a girl.

[star]

Hooya CTF!

[Christian]

Yeah, I've noticed a change in my sex drive, to be less than before. I don't need that release in the same way. I believe it's related to activating kundalini. I'm in the process of releasing energy and balancing my chakras and energy body. And I've noticed similarities in some energy pulses I get sometimes when I'm doing kundalini meditation to physical orgasm. It's like a miniorgasm in the root chakra. Similar but less intense.

I mainly prefer, at the moment, to release the energy through meditation with kundalini than through sex.

And it also relates to looking at the opposite sex in a total different perspective and light. Add the spiritual dimension to life and the world alters before your eyes.

[Snowman23]

And it also relates to looking at the opposite sex in a total different perspective and light. Add the spiritual dimension to life and the world alters before your eyes.

That's exactly what I like about it. It's like a burden has been lifted. I now view beauty in a completly different way. I would also think it clears your perception and judgement.

I beleive it makes me a more productive and clear person overall.

[Zak]

Cool guys,

Personally I haven't intentionally raised kundalini for quite some time as I am working some stuff out first, but I have read a lot on the subject and I do know that the sexual enrgy comes from the same place as the Kundalini energy. It is the CREATIVE force hence the same force in us that we use to pro-CREATE :)

I know that the sexual drive originates in the lower animal self and if we aknowledge and respond to these urges then it is a hindrance to kundalini awakening. Instead the spiritual desire for union is awakened with kundalini instead of the urge to "get off" so to speak.

I guess tantra, the act of raising kundalini through sex is conserving the energy and moving it upwrds as oposed to releasing the energy in the "non-spiritual" way and forming what one author calls the demon tail... Strange name but it makes sense as this loss of energy prevents it from being conserved and transmuted to higher energy.

Does that make sense?

[CFTraveler]

Cool guys,

Personally I haven't intentionally raised kundalini for quite some time as I am working some stuff out first, but I have read a lot on the subject and I do know that the sexual enrgy comes from the same place as the Kundalini energy. It is the CREATIVE force hence the same force in us that we use to pro-CREATE :)

I know that the sexual drive originates in the lower animal self and if we aknowledge and respond to these urges then it is a hindrance to kundalini awakening. Instead the spiritual desire for union is awakened with kundalini instead of the urge to "get off" so to speak.

I guess tantra, the act of raising kundalini through sex is conserving the energy and moving it upwrds as oposed to releasing the energy in the "non-spiritual" way and forming what one author calls the demon tail... Strange name but it makes sense as this loss of energy prevents it from being conserved and transmuted to higher energy.

Does that make sense? It makes sense in a technical sort of way, but there is an inherent judgement in it that bothers me. It presupposes that procreation in the physical sense is somehow inferior by producing physical children. I do agree that 'getting off' for it's own sake is basically removing energy that builds up, and it could be used for the person who is ready to raise their kundalini, but then not everyone is ready to do it (I myself am not ready, and question my sanity every day (or almost every day, anyway). So I would suggest that physical sexuality is a protective mechanism (taking aside the procreation part of it) to protect an individual from spontaneous kundalini rising when they're not ready for it. It still is a judgemental and dualistic way of looking at it, but imo a bit less so than the standard 'guru/enlightened/superior' reason that is usually given.

[Christian]

Doing what tantrists (is that the name?) is doing, converting sexual energy to more refined types of energy seems quite far away for me. I find the sexual energy to strong at the moment.

It's difficult to concentrate on energy raising and energy converting during sex. So if one can control that I would say that that person is advanced in energy work.

I would agree with all you said in your last post Snowman. Now it's a total different league :) All to the best. And I really like not being bombarded with sexual thoughts all the time as I used to be.

Love
/C

[Zak]

CFT yeah, I guess I could have bee nclearer with my wording. Sexual activity that's not for procreation and not for kundalini raising can still be spiritual and or not damaging to spirituality and your own energy body.

What I'm thinking of ass the "bad" or not soo good stuff is the lusting aspect of it. The stuff we sometimes act on or have acted on because o the way sexuality is portrayed in the media.

Again I'm no expert here :p

[blacktiger057]

I actually like the point of view sex change. It creates more respect for the opposite sex, you don't just like some1 because they are hot. This is the key for having a deeper relationship, so it will last alot longer. They only thing that I don't like about this change is that I sometimes don't have a want to have a girlfriend or anything like that, escpially when my old when started cheating on me a few months ago. I haven't felt the need for one ever since, but I think this could cause problems for me when I get older. Anyone no how to negate this effect?

[CFTraveler]

bt wrote:
They only thing that I don't like about this change is that I sometimes don't have a want to have a girlfriend or anything like that, escpially when my old when started cheating on me a few months ago. I haven't felt the need for one ever since, but I think this could cause problems for me when I get older. Anyone no how to negate this effect? Well, you could start by realizing that when you get the need to be with someone, it isn't going to be for sexual purposes only, or for any one thing specifically. If and when you find someone, it should be for the need to be with her, period. I have heard time and again (I have brothers and used to work with a bunch of guys, and me the only female) the comment: (When it wasn't about sex, that is) I fell in love with her for her smile, for her sweetness, for her body, for her [insert favorite trait here] but they didn't fall in love with the whole person, and then they think that the reason it didn't work was the other person (she was a ____). But they never realize (and this goes for anyone, male or female, I just heard it more from guys) that they also didn't like something about the other person very much, and after a few years the trait grew and turnned into a great big monster. It sounds to me like you were hurt by someone and thus 'wrote women off' because of that- or tried to forget what happened (forgive me if I'm getting too personal here) but if you have problems in the future with a future gf, it's not going to be because of kundalini, or one thing, it's because of whatever happened with the one you broke up with (I hope) wasn't resolved in any satisfactory way. Unfortunately, when we're hurt by someone, we tend to attact the same type of person that caused the hurt unless the situation is resolved, and you can look back and now you forgave her. So if you're still hurting, if you're still wondering 'what happened', then you need to go over it, until you're ready to let go, and then heal. But generalizing a problem isn't going to make it better.
I say this with concern- I hope I wasn't too stern (as a mom I know I can be). I just hope you can get through this to go ahead and have a wonderful full life.
ps. "the one you broke up with (I hope) " means I hope you broke up with her, not I hope it wasn't resolved. (Language can be so confusing!)

[Zak]

That seems like a good rule of thumb. Like the WHOLE person in a HOListic way :)

[Lordofthebunnies]

I do know that many spiritual traditions emphasize converting sexual energy into spiritual energy through semen retention and various other practices. Generally, it involves refining and channeling the energy upward. Kundalini practices can accomplish this inadvertently. I've started using some of the techniques myself.

Here's an interesting article on how refining sexual energy can assist relationships and spiritual endeavors, coming from a daoist perspective:

http://www.healingtaobritain.com/p67mag ... orgasm.htm (http://www.healingtaobritain.com/p67magazinequestforspiritualorgasm.htm)

This site is noteworthy as well. It points out the neurological element of many tantric practices as contrasted to ordinary, "lust" driven sex.

http://www.reuniting.info/

[Zak]

Awsome, I shall read this when I have a moment. Retention of semen is a great practice I think. I find when I don't do it now after having done it for awhile I get a cramping sensation in my solar plexus chakra. This could e due to number of things. When you look at how much energy and nutrients go into the production of semen, if you're spouting off this stuff multiple times a day or every other day or whatever, you're losing quite a bit of energy! It's very concentrated stuff. According to Franz Bardon the blood and semen in our bodies (female is just blood and the egg) is what contains the akashic principle in the highest concentration and purity...

Over time fairly strong muscles develop in the perenium for retention. Does anyoneif it is possible to get these muscles strong enough to retain without having to use a physical block such as your fingers or heel if you are in a cross legged pose?

[Korpo]

Hello, Zachary.

Yes, it is possible.

"Taoist Secrets of Love - Cultivating Male Sexual Energy" from Mantak Chia teaches the technique. It's actually better than doing it "by hand", because applying pressure to the involved "plumbing" in the perineum can cause damage if not done very carefully. Doing it with the technique should avoid this risk entirely.

The book is rather well-written, and taken from different sources, and openly admits it has strong relation to Tantrics, but no devotional aspect. It further tells about making sex and relationship more complete and whole-body orgasms.

I myself had to break off training, as the power of the energy was at that time was too intense for me.

BTW, there is a companion manual for women, too. IIRC it's named "Healing Love through the Tao", and he wrote it together with his wife. But for women the issue is initially not as decisive, as the woman does not lose energy in the act as the man. But cultivating energy, storing it, and cultivating relationships and doing whole-body orgasms, I guess women like that too..... ;) ;) ;)

Anyhow, all practices regarding sexual energy should be accompanied with strong grounding practise, and sharply limited until one knows where one's limit is, IMO. It's simply the "strong stuff".

Regards,
Oliver

[Zak]

I just read IMHO aphenomenal articl that Lord of the Bunnies left from healingtaobritain website.

Korpo that book sounds great! In the article it mentions women being able to retain egg and mentrual blood which is still apparently a theory but the practices actually reduce the amount lost in the menstrual cycle.

Mantak Chia actually didn't personally write any of his books but dictated them roughly to one of his students (who is the author of the article LOTB posted) and he westernized the language. Also Chia's wife according to Michael Winn (author) doesnt even practice any cultivation and the work was taken from Michael's wife who did practice as well as other top female students of Mantak Chia.

Exciting stuff! I just had a "AHA!" moment after reading that article as it seems I had largely been ignoring the downward Yin channel even though I was aware of it. After working with that I feel VERY energized after having gone through a month long period of very being very tired because of two moves and the amount of work it takes to get settled again.

[Zak]

Oh and with all this talk of sexual practices some information returned to me from a two channeled books I read in the past by Barbara Marciniak. "The bringers of Dawn" and "Earth" have a lot of information from the Pleiadians (benevolent ET's) instructing humanity to heal their sexual issues through various practices. One of them was something about a dragon ritual where the only time a man should ejaculate is when a woman is taking it into her body orally as it is very benefically and full of nutrients.

In turn a man should consume the blood and meses of a woman for the related nourishment. The P's go on to talk about another way is to copulate while the woman is releasing her egg (I'd imagine it to be a very messy affair). It's not just a nourshiment factor though. It is a way of accessing interdimensional information and should only be done with a partner that is very close to you (not someone you're having a one night stand with) because it will reveal all the secrets of your partner to you.

The P's go on to talk about the abomination that is tampons and the way our culture views the female menstrual cycle as something that has to be stopped up. They go on to explain that the cause of war is the Earths need to have blood flowing into it. Because woman are stopping the flow with pads and tampons (I don't know enough about the history but this sounds like something MEN devised and I am in no way saying it is womens fault for this!!!) this causes wars where blood is spilt from men, but we all know men don't bleed monthly!

Pretty out there information but I feel it holds a grain of truth if not a profound truth.

Again these were probably some very old practices from Atlantis or Lemuria... Even maybe Egyptin in nature or Mayan.

[Surya]

They only thing that I don't like about this change is that I sometimes don't have a want to have a girlfriend or anything like that, escpially when my old when started cheating on me a few months ago. I haven't felt the need for one ever since, but I think this could cause problems for me when I get older. Anyone no how to negate this effect?

This may appear to be a problem but is really a blessing. One who can move beyond sex / girlfriends has won half the battle in releasing oneself from the cycle of (physical) birth and death. It is attachment to physical, ephemeral things that binds us to this earth. By not thinking about / desiring girls and sex, you are freeing up life energy to use towards spiritual awakening of kundalini. I am struggling with this at the moment, and have been reading the works of Swami Sivananda, who gives advice on how to move beyond the physical and sublimate sexual energy (through celibacy, or brahmacharya).

[Korpo]

This may appear to be a problem but is really a blessing. One who can move beyond sex / girlfriends has won half the battle in releasing oneself from the cycle of (physical) birth and death. It is attachment to physical, ephemeral things that binds us to this earth. By not thinking about / desiring girls and sex, you are freeing up life energy to use towards spiritual awakening of kundalini. I am struggling with this at the moment, and have been reading the works of Swami Sivananda, who gives advice on how to move beyond the physical and sublimate sexual energy (through celibacy, or brahmacharya).

Hello, Surya.

This is a belief held by some traditions, but not by all. Taoists are at least not final in that matter. They don't demand celibacy as a precondition for deeper practise, and have demonstrated methods that transform the sex drive from animal over human to spiritual, as a bodily expression of higher love and energy work.

The Tantrics even mix devotional practise and sex.

From what I've read it is not necessary to shed sex from your life to become enlightened. Some practises try to use the additional energy as some kind of booster stage in their enlightenment work, but I personally believe that this is neither necessary nor desirable, as the body has its own pace for this that cannot be overridden without paying a physical, maybe even emotional or mental price.

This is my personal belief, but depending on who you ask you will get a different answer. There are millions of ways to attaining the Tao. :)

Regards,
Oliver

[Surya]

This may appear to be a problem but is really a blessing. One who can move beyond sex / girlfriends has won half the battle in releasing oneself from the cycle of (physical) birth and death. It is attachment to physical, ephemeral things that binds us to this earth. By not thinking about / desiring girls and sex, you are freeing up life energy to use towards spiritual awakening of kundalini. I am struggling with this at the moment, and have been reading the works of Swami Sivananda, who gives advice on how to move beyond the physical and sublimate sexual energy (through celibacy, or brahmacharya).

Hello, Surya.

This is a belief held by some traditions, but not by all. Taoists are at least not final in that matter. They don't demand celibacy as a precondition for deeper practise, and have demonstrated methods that transform the sex drive from animal over human to spiritual, as a bodily expression of higher love and energy work.

The Tantrics even mix devotional practise and sex.

From what I've read it is not necessary to shed sex from your life to become enlightened. Some practises try to use the additional energy as some kind of booster stage in their enlightenment work, but I personally believe that this is neither necessary nor desirable, as the body has its own pace for this that cannot be overridden without paying a physical, maybe even emotional or mental price.

This is my personal belief, but depending on who you ask you will get a different answer. There are millions of ways to attaining the Tao. :)

Regards,
Oliver

Of course, Oliver you are right :). There are many ways to attain moksha / enlightenment / tao, and celibacy is not a requirement of all paths. It comes down to whatever works for the particular person, or whatever their Guru teaches them. For me, I have found celibacy to be useful in uncluttering the mind. It is a struggle but I believe it is worth it. The traditions which permit sex in a spiritual context do warn against regular emission of semen, as this is where the energy drain occurs. The tantrics especially stress this; the left-handed tantric rituals involving sex stress that semen must be retained (even where it is emitted - notably in amaroli vajroli mudra, the semen is actually sucked back in after emission). I guess it comes down to using that sexual energy with intent and not wasting it wantonly. But again, that is my view only :).

[Korpo]

I guess it comes down to using that sexual energy with intent and not wasting it wantonly.

Yes, it does. For example the Taoist school I feel drawn to focuses on the fact that sexuality should not bring imbalance or agitation, but should be lived within a stable relationship. There are celibates as well, of course. And they are so if they desire so.

Actually it can benefit spiritual practise, but only - I think - if compatible with a person's character makeup. If you have to repress it heavily, it's doing the damage emotionally that then wastes energy into blockages and repressed personality shadows on the emotional level. This may not necessarily be felt on a physical/etherical level, but can return to bug you when working with the emotional body, I'd think. The physically saved energy may amount to comparatively little in the long term. But if you do not desire sex much, why not save the effort? If you can do it, and desire to invest this elsewhere this is a good, personal decision. Making the expressed decision may even help feed this energy into the spiritual. :)

As for semen retention and retrieval - both have extremely varied results depending on the physical capabilities inborn into a person. Some may easily damage their reproductive tract even by retention just because they have a more susceptible "apparatus". It's even a worse situation with retrieval, as this can induce heavy infects - for the persistent the technique is more easily mastered than done without damage. Some people are perfectly fine, but it needs proper supervision. And basic functioning of the hormone system "down there" ;) is a precondition for a healthy and vital life, as the body depends on it. It's a very complicated field.

I guess I agree with you that if someone truely has less desire in sex this can save energy that can be cultivated, because then it is not agitated energy. If someone is simply hurt and is further repressing that pain and becoming oblivious to it, then celibacy is just a rational construct to repress the problem further, and the healing of the original issue just gets harder over time.

Regards,
Oliver

[Nnonnth]

guess I agree with you that if someone truely has less desire in sex this can save energy that can be cultivated, because then it is not agitated energy. If someone is simply hurt and is further repressing that pain and becoming oblivious to it, then celibacy is just a rational construct to repress the problem further, and the healing of the original issue just gets harder over time.


To me this is obviously true, agree 100%. Celibacy as a sexual strategy must not be equated with running away from the issue!

I think the addition of the Pleiadean ideas (which I hadn't heard of) into the discussion is very valuable. For myself I have always thought that it was not a sustainable strategy for the race and planet as a whole, not to engage in sexual acts, which have a rejuvenating effect.

In western magic, which I practise, there is a good deal of similarity with some ideas Zachary is mentioning. In particular the usefulness of menstrual blood in magic is well known - some magicians have called it 'the red gold'.

I think we must be careful to separate two rather different issues here - the goals of practicing in a sexual context, and the prerequisites for such a practice. One thing in my mind is certain, and that is that *no* spiritual sexual practice - from celibacy to alchemy to shamanic orgies! - can possibly proceed without certain things being in place first, namely a person who has no fears or hangups about the subject and is capable of making rational decisions on it, with their whole mind and body.

That said, I am not absolutely certain, and never have been, that emphasis on retention isn't ultimately an escapist strategy. The Pleiadean doctrine of healing the planet via sex is more in line with what I naturally feel than any taoist or tantric approach I know of. Sigh, more books to read sometime!

best NN

[CFTraveler]

There is one quote that sort of disturbed me. Not having read the article, I'm not sure if I'm understanding it right, but here goes:

In the article it mentions women being able to retain egg and mentrual blood which is still apparently a theory but the practices actually reduce the amount lost in the menstrual cycle.
OK, for all you guys: How a woman's reproductive cycle works:
First of all, when the egg matures, one or two a month, it comes off the ovary and goes into the uterus. If fertilized, we know what happens. If not, it produces a hormone that takes all the excess endometrium and blood vessels that have formed (which is why women get bloated before their period) their uterus was geting ready for a possible baby, and produced the support system it would need. If it doesn't, all this must be shed, and a period is the (sometimes painful, since blood vessels break in this process) detachment of the endometrium (the inside skin layer) and it's shedding. The blood is what happens when the vessels break, and the clots are the endometrial tissue itself, which is thin at this point.
I can't imagine it being possible to 'hold' an egg which is no longer connected to the ovary, it would just rot and cause sepsis and probably killl a woman. And 'keeping blood in?' Please look up 'toxic shock syndrome'.
Not everything that 'sounds good' in energetic terms is translatable to the human body.
The only way to stop a woman's cycle is to stop a woman's cycle- have her not have female hormones. In other words turn her into a boy. Why would you want to do that?
It is useful to remember that in most ancient cultures 'being a woman' was viewed (and still is in some circles) as a disease, and the thinking that led to this idea sounds like that to me. But then again, maybe they're thinking in benevolent terms, since periods are painful for many women. Who knows? I know that I wouldn't want to stop being a woman even if it's painful.

[Zak]

Thinking back I mis-worded that terribly. I'd have to re-read the article but I think it spoke of perhaps stopping the menstrual cycle or perhaps slowing it down.

I said retain because in my mind it was the equivalent to the male practice of retaining semen. So I thought retaining egg... Yes of course it would rot, again excuse me for not thinking about that one first before writing it.

I do believing some miraculous things can happen outside of the western medical view when dealing with spirituality and energy work. Specifically china. With the practice of Falun Dafa (a somwhat cultish qi-gong prctice) there have been 100's of reports of women having already gone through menopause coming (scientifically a woman is born with X number of eggs and when they are all used up around the age of 50 then menopause happens) suddenly begin menstruating again which is connected to the youthfullness the practice offers those who practice it.

[CFTraveler]

I can see how that would work (although I can't imagine why women would want to menstruate at an old age :lol: :shock: ) Other than to feel 'womanly' and youthful. My mom, who is in her late 70's, never had any negative effects with menopause (no hot flashes, no severe mood swings (other than average :wink: ).
The wording alarmed yes, didn't mean to pick on you. I could see in my imagination young girls trying to stop their cycles, seeing them as 'something wrong'. Maybe I'm too sensitive to the way western culture objectifies women and teaches young girls to hate themselves for having curves, and the old idea still present in western medicine that there is something essentially wrong with women (note the work 'hysteria' comes from 'hyster', which is 'uterus'), and the way only 20 years ago gynecologists saw the uterus as a throw-away organ, hence the all-purpose 'hysterectomy'. Thank God that mentality is going away, or so it seems anyway. So yes, I'm sensitive to all those issues, which is one issue, really.

[Argeroth]

Having sex unto itself may be habit forming. It does not help that at least in my part of the world we a groomed from a very young age to have a pre-defined set of value's regarding sex... that being said...

For me I've learned to see the male and female orgasm as a type of pressure release valve. When we become aroused our energy system activates accordingly. As we focus on the sensations of a 'sexual' experience we draw more and more energy into our lower chakra's and then finally ... poof.. the pressure valve triggers and a host of other chemical and biological changes.

I feel that when we take part in that connection we transmute our energies and convert them into what ever energies we need to maintain the sexual connection. The more time we invest the stronger the energy center becomes unfortunately it may grow to become unbalanced with the others...

I truly feel that raising the kundalini within ourselves brings us to an point that can be equated to a 'next step' in our evolutionary. Where we go from there not quite sure!!! To do this we need to learn to control our energies and use them to grow. If we continually 'release' it would make sense that our progress will only go so far. By consciously following the path of raising our kundalini energies we choose active a set of characteristics in ourselves, our body chooses to redirect those energies in order to form and strengthen our pathways, instead transmuting it for other biological processes

[Zappy]

I am 16, used to looking at girls in the way of "i'd hit it". After kundalini came apon me, it all changed, I do not even care about sex really anymore. Its more of just finding some one that would love me unconditionaly. Problem is I am 16, thats not what other teenagers want, so I just deal with it.

[CFTraveler]

I am 16, used to looking at girls in the way of "i'd hit it". After kundalini came apon me, it all changed, I do not even care about sex really anymore. Its more of just finding some one that would love me unconditionaly. Problem is I am 16, thats not what other teenagers want, so I just deal with it. Luckily, you are not pressured to have sex like girls are, so you can take it easy and decide what is best for you, choosing not to discuss it if you don't have to.

[Zak]

In my opinion in our society there is equal pressure for guys to hae sex at a young age. It's the other end of things though, there is pressure for guys to find someone who reflects their alpha male characteristics.

As for sexuality and energy work like kundalini, I highly reccomend reading anything on tantra or daoist sexual alchemy. If you are taking a spiritual path you can either turn away from sex or you can intgrate the spiritual side of sex which in my opinion is the most complete and healthy way of dealing with it.

The orgasm isn't just related to the lower chakra's. One can learn to raise that energy and have whole body orgasms which don't create the unbalance that regular genital orgasms do.

[Zappy]

I am 16, used to looking at girls in the way of "i'd hit it". After kundalini came apon me, it all changed, I do not even care about sex really anymore. Its more of just finding some one that would love me unconditionaly. Problem is I am 16, thats not what other teenagers want, so I just deal with it. Luckily, you are not pressured to have sex like girls are, so you can take it easy and decide what is best for you, choosing not to discuss it if you don't have to.

Ah that is true. I am fine with the way it is, makes you lookat people a lot differently

[Argeroth]

The orgasm isn't just related to the lower chakra's. One can learn to raise that energy and have whole body orgasms which don't create the unbalance that regular genital orgasms do.

I suppose I am going on experience here... interesting insights I suppose I'll have to cross that bridge when I reach it ;)

[Zak]

Hello fellow Ontrian,

If you're interested start off with the basics like Mantak Chia's " the multi-orgasmic man" another good one is Margot Anand's " Art of sexual ecstacy" (second is a bit of a textbook in size)

I had the chance of meeting Margot on a trip a few weeks ago and she is quite an interesting teacher... Very good at what she does and what she writes about.

[Korpo]

I would be very careful with Mantak Chia's works on Sexual Qigong, this can be dangerous. A lot of energy gets moved, yes, but it leads more to agitation than to calmness. It's one of these techniques that rather result in overload conditions.

Same with the semen retention technique he advertises. For some it's great, for others it is a sure-fire way to damage their sexual apparatus, because of an inborn weakness.

I have tried these things, but I do not think they are generally good. Maybe if, and only if, you have a very settled mind you can try to do this, as the experience is unsettling. Sexual Qigong is surely no practise you can pick out of a Qigong system and practise on its own in a mix&match way without increasing the inherent risk.

Oliver

[Snowman23]

Its more of just finding some one that would love me unconditionaly. Problem is I am 16, thats not what other teenagers want, so I just deal with it.

That's my exact situation now. I've switched to more of a 'soul mate' search now. Some would think I'm a nut. Perhaps it is unrealistic, but in my opinion it is much more healthy. Since the delusion was broken I can feel a bit lonely since others, especially other teenagers, don't understand or want to connect with others on the level in which I now want to connect. Everything seems so superficial now, so mundane and useless. It's not depressing, it just makes me feel out of place now. Most of my time now is spent in my head, introspection.

I hate when other 'guys' talk about girls like objects, especially when they pressure or try to force me to 'get with' someone. I feel a great burning anger and a sense of injustice and disgust at them.

[Zak]

Some of the practices it appears you can take them out of context as Margot Anand has done this in her book although she has placed it along with her own exercises.

I have never had a problem with the semen retention myself and have actually found it great for not "wasting" energy through orgasm.

I can see how it could be dangerous or unballanced for some people but it shouldn't discourage anyone from exploring.

There is a lot of controversy around sexuality in our culture to begin with so it doesn't help matters if you jump into this if you have sexual issues under the surface I would imagine. If you can understand yourslf what your views are of sexuality then you should be the judge of wether soething like this would work for you. (asides from the physical weakness possibility as Korpo described)

One possible bad scenario I just imagine which could serve as an extreme example of how this practice could go bad is this:

Someone from a religious or fairly conservative background who has recently delved into the world of spirituality and or energy work reads about this from here or some other source and proceeds to practice it.

They feel themselves as having rebelled against their upbringing and this might be part of their intention behind the act. What they don't realize is they have subconsciously been programmed by their parents and very well likely have some of their shared beleifs regarding sex, especially if they have never had any education of it from an outside source.

My advice to this would be read lot's about sex and sexuality by sex therapist authors and the like. These blocks need to be removed first before you can truly experience the full freedom of orgasm in an ecstatic state.

[Lordofthebunnies]

I would be very careful with Mantak Chia's works on Sexual Qigong, this can be dangerous. A lot of energy gets moved, yes, but it leads more to agitation than to calmness. It's one of these techniques that rather result in overload conditions.

Same with the semen retention technique he advertises. For some it's great, for others it is a sure-fire way to damage their sexual apparatus, because of an inborn weakness.

I have tried these things, but I do not think they are generally good. Maybe if, and only if, you have a very settled mind you can try to do this, as the experience is unsettling. Sexual Qigong is surely no practise you can pick out of a Qigong system and practise on its own in a mix&match way without increasing the inherent risk.


I completely agree with this. After my first post in this thread, I learned through added research on other forums that a fair majority of people have hurt themselves through use of Mantak's sexual cultivation techniques.

Much of the problem seems to stem from trying to channel aroused sexual energy up the spine. If practiced in moderation, semen retention does seem to have benefits, but trying to combine it with breath and energy techniques picked out buffet style from other systems is dangerous. For that kind of thing, it seems its better to have an experienced master on hand to defer to.

[Zak]

Well I gotta get a copy of a book or two of his to check this out for myself as I haven't had any problems with semen retention myself. I guess there is the slight chance I could be damaging myself but I have never felt any pain in any of the muscle or cartilidge tissue anywhere down there. In fact I've been doing it for a couple years now and last time I didn't retain and had an orgasm and ejaculated it felt like a complete drain in my solar plexus. It's as if all the energy in that chakra was immediately drained and went out with the semen.

[star]

What age were you guys looking to get with cicks? Seriously... and ya'll only thought of them as a sexual release? Society today is wierd man...Dunno, just can't see a lady like that.

[Zak]

Where was it ever written that we thought of them only as a sexual release?...

I do agree that society is weird. I think the general agreement and experience from these posts sort of describes how most of us feel that the extremely sexualized culture we live in is the un-healthy way of being sexually active.

[star]

Hmmm, I wonder where I did see that, maybe I was thinking about a different post and wrote here instead. :)

Good information by the way, love it.

[Mahavatar_Babaji]

The orgasm isn't just related to the lower chakra's. One can learn to raise that energy and have whole body orgasms which don't create the unbalance that regular genital orgasms do.
I figured out how to do this on my own years ago and have been doing it for about 6 years now, about when I started meditation. The way I do it is just rub the head of my penis (kind of how women masturbate). Just before I reach orgasm, I clench my pubic muscles and resist the urge to ejaculate. I then send the sexual energy upwards. I think this technique may have caused my kundalini to awaken along with my meditation.

[Zak]

Exactly! It's really amazing, and I have found I have sooooo much energy for the rest of the day. Compared to my regular almost daily sexual appetite. I am now fullfilled more and not as drained as I was before from loss of seminal fluid. And when you learn to control it more (which it sounds like you have babaji) you can make it last longer and longer which is really what a multiple orgasm is. Or one long sustained one. Which is absolutely blissful. I recommend not being in the shower when doing this or you wil use a LOT of water :p

[Korpo]

I would recommend being careful with this technique.

1) The sexual apparatus in some people is brittle, in some not. It can be easily damaged by some, while others are fine. Swellings and inflammation can for example happen.

2) The sexual energy can cause strong agitation and unsettle you emotionally. I know this from my own experience.

3) The use of the additional energy made available through sexual energy can lead to feelings of highs and lows depending on sexual activity. I mean, when you tap the sexual energy for other purposes it can make you feel depleted when you release it during sex. The loss is felt much stronger if you rely on it as a source of energy to feed your energy work.

4) Sexual energy can become addictive, especially if you tap into its orgasmic quality. Its overuse to induce prolonged pleasure is the most likely scenario that leads to the scenarios in 1-3.

Oliver

[Mahavatar_Babaji]

I would recommend being careful with this technique.
I guess as long as you don't overdo it with the 'dry orgasm' technique, you should be ok. I only do it maybe once or twice a day tops and make sure to ejaculate at least once a week, to keep things flowing normally. I also try not to force the energy upwards too hard, because I find that this technique can intensify kundalini.

[Korpo]

Oh, I wasn't referring specifically to you or anyone, but two dry orgasms a day sound not like not overdoing it to me...

Oliver

[Zak]

Yeah if anyone is interested in this I would definetly recommend doing some serious reading first as well as prior energy work since it is better to remove blockages slower rather than the hot expansiveness that comes with the sexual energy.

As for the delicate tissue's and anatomy in the area of the genitals. From what I've read it is only the stopping the ejaculation technique which is potentially damaging for some and not the avoidance of ejculation technique which results in multiple orgasms.

I also think that a certain amount of fear needs to be cleared up surrounding these practices. Just like it does surrounding kundalini and what it does and what it can cause.

For example in China, which has become very sexually repressed since the cultural revolution, if anyone speaks of chi-kung type practices involving sexuality they will tell you it is VERY dangerous and makes people crazy. Im not sure for certain but I believe this is part of the reason why Mantak Chia's retreat and training centre is located in Thailand and not China.

[Korpo]

It surely would do you some good to read up on what Bruce Frantzis writes on sexual Qigong and its risks in "Open the Energy Gates of Your Body". Several masters recommended abstaining from any sexual Qigong that manipulates the male orgasm.

I do no longer trust Mantak Chia as a teacher. He gives inadequate advice about mental exercises and preparation of the mind. He recommends Chi packing, semen retention and other possibly harmful techniques.

All these techniques actually require monitoring by a knowledgeable master to learn safely - chi packing done inexpertly can do more harm than good. Semen retention can damage the sexual apparatus in enough people to be not taught publicly, but instead Chia wrote "The Multi-Orgasmic Man".

To me the guy is irresponsible. I do no longer trust him.

Oliver

[Zak]

Thanks I will read what this guy has to say for sure.

[CFTraveler]

And then I'll go away and leave you guys to your conversation-
The reason that the Buddha changed the world at his time is because, having lived with all the gurus and saints the Hindu religion produced at the time, he realized that the doctrine of nonattachment didn't have to include a denial of the body or the world, only of his attachment to it. He realized that all these gurus who didn't eat, didn't have sex, didn't do this and didn't do that all had one thing in common- an inherent distaste for their existence and their idea that by denying themselves they somehow elevated themselves 'above' everything and everyone else. This turned Buddha off, and from there he came upon the realization that enlightenment wasn't attainment or denial, it was realization, pure and simple.
Just my .02 on this matter.
Feel free to ignore me.

[Mishell]

Feel free to ignore me.

No cando CF.

This may be all “guy talk” but I’ve been reading it and I have to say it is disturbing to me. What you said about the Buddha makes sense to me because it is what has been going through my mind as well.


these gurus who didn't eat, didn't have sex, didn't do this and didn't do that all had one thing in common- an inherent distaste for their existence

Of what benefit is it to come into this life and deny ourselves of tools we can use towards our advancement? Incarnating on this planet is hard work. Why deny things that bring pleasure? After all, it is not the thing itself that causes our problems, but how we react to that thing. That is where we find room to grow. It is by overcoming our negativity towards certain things that puts us on the path of advancement, not it the denial of them.

We are here to participate in this life. To take part in all it’s aspects, to live fully and grow towards happiness.

I would hate to think that because I did not live fully this time around I would have to come back and do it all again.

Live. Experience. Learn. That is the best we can do.

All of our lessons must be learned. If it is not now, it will surely be later.

[Korpo]

Sexual Chi Gung Can Be Dangerous

Many people today are fascinated by chi gung techniques for developing sexual power. There is a system, for instance, that includes techniques such as forcibly sucking energy up the anus and spine and hanging weights of ever-increasing amounts from the testicles and penis.

Around 1970, Wang Shu Jin, my first teacher and a man known for his Taoist sexual abilities, warned me against this technique. Then, when I mentioned it to my next teacher, Hung I Hsiang, he told me that it would be a very bad idea for me to practise the technique. In fact, he gave me a one-hour lecture to caution me about practising ridiculous forms of esoteric sexual chi gung.

Lesser problems are even more common. I have met many people who have practised sexual control techniques and damaged their sexual apparatus. It is easy to overstrain the system, especially if the sexual organs are genetically weak to begin with. Some common problems include swollen testicles and internal bleeding. While these practices may lead to the ability to maintain erections for a longer time, the increased pressure can damage the underlying tissues. Women, too, can be damaged by inappropriate sexual chi gung practices, resulting in problems such as false pregnancies and erratic periods.(Bruce Frantzis, "Open The Energy Gates of Your Body", page 271)

Wang Shu Jin was known for his extraordinary Qi and was easily capable of handling his opponents at an age of 70 and beyond. Hung I Hsiang is also a well-respected martial arts/Qigong master. Both have been in detail described by Bruce Frantzis in his book "The Power of Internal Martial Arts".

So, you now have 3 masters of martial arts and Daoist Qigong that say that this technique can be dangerous. It is not so farfetched about weights, too. See here:


David says these are the missing parts of the Healing Tao for the Immortal Practices and Master Chia says he knows them or remembers them but never taught them before, but will formly in the Winter Retreat 1999.

[...]

Empty Force (Emptying the your Insides) - Basic training for higher level practice
Men's Practices - Closing the Three Gates: Penis, Ducts, Prostate
a) Pull down on testicles & penis developing the Thunder Power
b) Moving & controlling stick (tube) in anus to draw the air inside the Large Intestine to cool
down the Internal Fire (Metal Yang) & in the Small Intestines (Fire Yang)
c) Lift & holding the 1 pound weight on a stick in the anus for 20 minutes
d) Lifting & moving weights on testicles, then on testicles & penis, then finally on penis
Women's Practices - Closing the Three Gates: Vag, Cervix, & Uterus with Weights(from http://www.universal-tao.com/article/ba_shen.php)

Now tell me Chia does not teach dangerous stuff, but only safe stuff. ;) There are reviews on the net who said the techniques can induce psychosis, impotence, and so on. These are people that had the "bad luck" about these techniques in person. There are also people advising against Chi Packing (also recommended by Chia in "Iron Shirt Chi Kung"), including again Bruce Frantzis.

Chia teaches the "Big Draw" (pushing Jing from the testicles up the spine into the brain by tensing up (=force) while tensing up the anus) openly in a book. He teaches the Chi Packing openly in a book. He seems to have at least one time have taught combining Chi Weight Lifting with the sexual apparatus.

This is irresponsible, and that has brought up many, many doubts about the man's work over the years with me. I respected the guy and did his stuff, but when I tried "Fusion of the Five Elements" and his sexual Qigong bad stuff began to happen, unsettling stuff, and that made me quit his teachings for good.

And guess what? For most of the time sexual Qigong of that school feels good. Even when it is in reality not going well. The sexual pleasure obfuscates the other effects on your system. Problems get ignored because it is fun to have multiple orgasms, or prolonged orgasms, or many near-orgasms that way. But whom do you turn to when you really get problems? Who is actually tapping you on the shoulder and tell you that your practice is diverging while you still feel good?

That's my problem with it. It works for some (and then possibly extremely well), but it is also possibly addictive (anyone here who hates orgasms?), highly detrimental to some, and needs good monitoring.

Oliver

[Mahavatar_Babaji]

And guess what? For most of the time sexual Qigong of that school feels good. Even when it is in reality not going well. The sexual pleasure obfuscates the other effects on your system. Problems get ignored because it is fun to have multiple orgasms, or prolonged orgasms, or many near-orgasms that way. But whom do you turn to when you really get problems? Who is actually tapping you on the shoulder and tell you that your practice is diverging while you still feel good?
It feels very good. Much better than sex the normal way. I have been doing this for about 6 years now with no negative side effects. I never believed that males could have multiple orgasms, until actually having them. I guess my sexual organs are quite durable? I suppose if you have a weak prostate, you shouldn't try this though.

[Zak]

I don't know much about Mantak's overall system but I do know that any exercise has the potential to go wrong even the very basic ones. I guess he made the descision when he put some of the more advanced work that people would do it in the correct order.

I see the sexual practices as possibly being similar to other exercises. For example weight lifting for your bicep etc in a gym. One should first have an instructor or read a book about it so you learn about reps and sets and how to take things step by step in order to get to higher weights etc. With the sexual practices you are using more delicate anatomy so if you launch into it not heeding the many warnings then it is from a result of your own ignorance to your own bodies feeling. I'm not saying people who have been injured did it this way but I bet a few of those saying that they have been fall under this category.

I think the long term "injury" of supressing sexuality or over taxing sexuality and orgasm/ejaculation is worse than the few out there who have had injuries which they've learnt from and taken a different course all together. If one has thin or weaker vas deferans for example and they have found out that they can't do the finger lock during a regular ejaculation then it is a lesson learned. One could then do the sexual practices of not going over the edge which isn't harmful and if they happen to go over the edge then what's the big deal if you ejaculate once?

Again supressing or over induldging in sexuality is more harmful than the alternative.

If one authors work doesn't agree with you there are others in the field such as Margot Anand, Charles and Caroline Muir etc This new area of western sacred sexuality is a fascinating one I feel. We are seeing the blending of a few traditions from China and India s well as western magickal schools.