Calming the mind / no-thought

[Korpo]

Hello,

what are techniques to go for developing and strengthening the no-mind / a state of no thought / calming the monkey mind?

How does concentration come into this?

How is this related to witnessing consciousness?

I'm a bit confused about these issues and could use some advice.

Thanks,
Oliver

[CFTraveler]

'Witnessing' takes you out of the monkey chatter, so you can observe yourself doing it. It gets the involvement out of it, enabling you to achieve that quiet, instead of trying to force yourself, which brings negative emotion into it, thus more thoughts, since we are verbal animals.

Doing it is simpler than describing it. The next time you're in a situation that bothers you, stop reacting, and look at the situation, and then think "look at Oliver- Oliver is upset at this thing that is happening". Notice your reaction to this thought. You should notice a whole change in your emotional state.

[wstein]

How does concentration come into this? Concentration is useful at the beginning of the process to limit the amount of chatter/thoughts to just a few. This is done by trying to focus on just one thought. When one gets down to a handful of thoughts, concentration should be stopped as it is also a thought in itself. At this point switch to witnessing. Try to limit your emotional response to the seemingly endless stream of offending thoughts and chatter. Emotional responses are chatter in themselves.

How is this related to witnessing consciousness? Witnessing is observing when a thought or chatter is present. The very act of witnessing along with ones intent to not have thoughts or chatter seems to dispel them. Many beginners have trouble here because they try to banish the thought or chatter. This is the same as concentration and will not result in the final state of none. Witnessing when there are lots of thoughts or chatter is difficult for most people. If you are one, start with concentrating until the number is reduced to a manageable level.

[Korpo]

Thanks, CFTraveller, wstein!

This is very useful information to me.

I was confused about this ever since I've read about RB's "Mind Taming" (MAP) technique with its forceful suppression of thought. Especially as opinions about these topic seems to be plenty.

Thanks, this has things cleared up a bit for me. :)

[Korpo]

Another questions - is it like this?

Start with a breathing practise, observing the breath, and then when this has reduced the "thought count", start observing?

Thanks,
Oliver

[wstein]

That's about the size of it. The key is to focus on one thing at the beginning until the hoards are reduced to a few. Pick anything that you can perceive with your eyes closed that does not require any action on your part. Your breath is one of the common ones. Your heartbeat or an analog clock that ticks (to hear not see) will also work. I only mention these alternatives as some people get self conscious when watching their breath. If watching your breath causes you to breathe differently, choose something else.

[Korpo]

Thanks, wstein.

Yes, when breathing I am need to take myself back, not to pattern it too much, and then I gradually ease into letting it happen. So it's not completely natural to me, but I guess it is among the best alternatives, and when I reach more relaxed breathing I often find it soothing or energizing.

As for the heartbeat - I have problems with that. I tend to get agitated when listening to it, therefore agitating. A circle of habitual behaviour hard to break, so I guess I stick with breathing.

Do you know other naturally arising / available patterns to follow or objects to concentrate on? I sometimes perceive energy rhythms, especially when something starts to unblock, but my perception of them is still "shaky", and not readily available.

Thanks,
Oliver

[Aratos]

Here are a few observations from my own experience with Zen meditation. There are many kinds of meditation but these are some things that have helped me. There are tons of variation, so find what works for you.
First, I'm a firm believer that counting heartbeats or breaths is nonsense. Counting is just another function of the logical mind. However, you must be breathing and although this sounds obvious many people "try" to meditate and in the process forget to breathe. There is nothing to do in meditation, nothing to count, nothing to see. This is all very Zen because many sects profess insight meditation or the use of mantra. Zen doesn't really use any of those tools. The biggest obstacle to meditation is getting over the hump of trying/thinking/moving. When I meditate I feel heavy, as like in a trance state. This tells me that there is no tension in the body, because if there is tension in the body there WILL be be tension in the mind; and vice-versa. The mind is intimately connected to the body so meditation is really a calmness of mind and body. I think too many people try to "freeze up" while meditation in order to acquire this stillness. This only leads to more tension. Sit up straight, and feel the body's weight sinking into the ground. Concentrate on the body and the mind will follow. Once while meditating outside during the summer I was bitten by numerous mosquitoes. I would watch them land, feel their pincher pierce my skin, watch as their sacs filled with blood and then fly off again. Suddenly what to 99 percent of the population is a annoyance became a spectacle of the cycle of life. Once you start to disassociate from the conditioning of your life, new worlds open. Conditioning is suffering. Meditation can free you, but not if you are busy counting exhales in 4/4 time. PS Insight meditation and mantras definitely have their place but I am by no means on expert on these systems. I see them more fitting into yoga but that's just me.

[Beekeeper]

Do you know other naturally arising / available patterns to follow or objects to concentrate on? I sometimes perceive energy rhythms, especially when something starts to unblock, but my perception of them is still "shaky", and not readily available.


Yes, you can listen to the tone ringing in your ear.

I think, for a beginner, you do what works best. So, you begin by eliminating some of the chatter. This means experimenting a little with what works best and not beating yourself up if you don't always succeed. It can be done in a formal meditation session or at any time in your day. Just stop, silence your mind, be in the moment.

In yoga, beginning meditators are taught to sit up straight (even against a wall), close their eyes, notice the sounds and physical sensations, relax, breathe. The aim is to gradually eliminate focus on the outside and also to slow down and silence thought. Eventually the instructor stops directing and one is on one's own.

Sometimes it is simply a matter of concentrating on the tip of one's nose or the eyebrow centre.

As for breath awareness, instead of counting breath, it's possible just to notice its journey, the sensation on your nostril, through your nose, down into your lungs and back up and out again. When your mind wanders you simply bring it back to the breath. You're not totally free of all thought but it's sufficient when you start and challenging enough in any case. I tend to find when I reach that free of all thought state, I destroy it by noticing I've attained it. *Sighs*

[Korpo]

As for breath awareness, instead of counting breath, it's possible just to notice its journey, the sensation on your nostril, through your nose, down into your lungs and back up and out again. When your mind wanders you simply bring it back to the breath. You're not totally free of all thought but it's sufficient when you start and challenging enough in any case. I tend to find when I reach that free of all thought state, I destroy it by noticing I've attained it. *Sighs*


Hello, Beekeeper, I try to do this, but it somehow gets my blockages highlighted. Don't know why. Sometimes it abates, and that's great, and sometimes it doesn't, but always starts out uncomfortable. I get a very relaxed breath during any kind of energy work, deep, smooth and ongoing, so I try no longer to interfere with that.

I have now switched with body awareness on the rise to try to use blockages as meditation object. They count to me among internal sensations. Do underly changes and patterns. I can focus with steady attention on them, focussing and unfocussing and maintaining my greep, and continuously do my energy work on them. When they release I might get underlying or associated memories, emotions or any other insight, though I am still "struggling" with this. As this seems one of the modes of the kind of meditation I'm doing anyhow, I think this is the way to go for me, because I first discovered it in practise, and then remembered that such a technique exists. Add in a little breath awareness - how the energy pulsates in resonance with breath and how this brushes against and into the blockage, and I think I'm on to something for myself.

I'm still into looking for a method that suits my bill, so I thank you all for your input. Maybe when body blockages are less and become less easily highlighted, I can truely observe breath as a tool for meditation.

Thanks,
Oliver

[Beekeeper]

Intuition is an amazing thing and it leads us into what is right for us. :wink: