drugs to induce obe?

[Peter19]

Hello people,

i am just wondering if any of you have tried or have heard of anyone haveing experiences useing certain drugs specifically anesthetics like Ketamine or something like "ether". drugs what are hopefully harmless lol. because i think if you had something to get you into that nice state of very sleepy or boarder-line sleep it might be a good way to make you more loose or something. :D

[Excaliber]

hey peter,
this is a touchy subject for a lot of people. the problem with drug induced obe is the lack of control you have. you forego the proper mental conditioning required for a stable experiance. reality fluctuations can be extreme and chaotic and therefore unpleasant. its kind of like gambling. i dont know anything about the drugs you are refering to so i am speaking in general here.

[CFTraveler]

In a related topic, Robert Bruce wrote:

Medically speaking (I have discussed this with several doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, etc) this is well known, that drugs cause psychosis and mental illness. Hospitals here in Aus are full of patients with drug induced psychosis, etc. It is difficult for a genuinely mentally ill person, suicidal depression, or someone having a breakdown, to get into a mental hospital these days, because they are choked with people suffering from drug induced psychosis type problems, or detoxing, etc.

I have also helped people who have developed serious addictions to mushrooms and pot, etc. They are not supposed to be addictive, but they are. And the effects of such hallucinogenics are not what they seem. They may appear to reveal the greater reality, and I'm sure they do to some extent (the lower astral mainly), but this most definitely does not provide access to the 'source'. I have talked at length to such people and what they have brought back with them from such experiences is usually worthless. And for what insight they do get into life, the harmful side effects badly outweigh.
Please realize that Ketamine (the drug used to put down animals) is a controlled substance, and illegal to possess by non-professionals in many
places. As Excaliber so succinctly put it, the purpose of Robert's work is to teach to produce and control the OBE state, and the use of chemical enhancements is counterproductive to this end.

[Mekiel]

also the energy needed to successfully meneuver astrally is not generated with a drug induced obe. At most you would produce a low level projection, often associated with the lower astral levels. Unpleasant and pointless.

Look to the books, meditate, get inspired. Dont mess with the drugs :)

This is my opinion.

Mekiel

[Peter19]

Thank you for your replys.

yeah i have thought about hallucinagens, but it says it all in the name of it really, what made me persue this a little bit more and ask for advise was - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6zHbeMhuRA
that mans experience. what he says is when he was in the hospital he took some form of anostetic (not sure what) and it made him have hes first oobe. an i think thats one of the most vital ones, the first oobe because then in your mind your belief has turned to you dont need to belive this anymore you know it. an i think a substance what could maybe just induce drowsness might do that like, you would of used that and it would be a massive boost if it worked because that as showed you the way so to speak. but use are right i reckon, in general its always good to keep trying.

[Beekeeper]

Peter, there are really no short cuts. A first conscious and recalled OBE will not guarantee further such OBEs and I doubt that a single experience would satisfy you, in any case. This is especially true for a drug induced experience which you could not guarantee, anyway.

If learning to relax enough is the problem, then I suggest you attempt projection in the morning after 6 hours sleep.

Rhythm napping is also a very useful technique http://www.saltcube.com/out-of-body/cha ... hm-napping (http://www.saltcube.com/out-of-body/chat-forum/viewTopic.jsp?t=rhythm-napping)

Also, have you tried using a meditation cd or binaural beats? A lot of people can relax using such auditory technologies and you do not need a lot of cash to access them. Learning to meditate will enhance your health, using drugs will potentially damage it.

[Peter19]

thanks for your views Beekeeper,

i know they would not guarantee any more and you are right that you could become reliant on what ever you use, but i think just to know that its true and you have done it, is a massive motivational tool. how long would you advise for trying to obe?. and have you got any tips for helping you get "mind awake body asleep"?. it would be greatly appreatiated :) .

i think before i might of even had an oobe but that is the thing, i am not a 100% sure. i felt like i was going down a slide, slipped sort of off the bed and then was standing near the bed. but it seems semi vague. the hallucinogens and marajuana help improve vagueness eh :D j/k.

thanks for your input.

[Beekeeper]

Peter,

As a starting point, I strongly advise you read Robert's tutorials if you haven't already
http://www.astraldynamics.com/

Take your time, you'll learn a lot. Hang around here long enough and you'll get even more ideas.


how long would you advise for trying to obe?

Try as long as you like. Take a break when you feel you need to. People tend to come back to it and try again if they don't at first succeed. Everyone is different. Some people are naturals, some have early successes with long dry spells, and so on.


and have you got any tips for helping you get "mind awake body asleep"

Yes, they're in my previous post. Also, it's good if you can tire your body with exercise and get a decent dose of sunlight everyday. Deep breathing techniques are very relaxing. Tensing and relaxing muscle groups can work well. A lot of people have success concentrating on the tones in their ears. You could also look up "wake induced lucid dreams".

Many people swear that eating a little cheese before bed can also contribute tp OBE success.

All that should keep you very busy and keep the subject matter in your thoughts, which in itself can contribute to OB experiences.

Oh, and btw, what you described was an OBE. :D

[Peter19]

thanks. i looked at those links in the past read them and just never did the rhythm napping lol. but i might give it a spin now. i think for now atleast like i will just keep at it. if you dont do it atleast you will get one thing from it - good determination and perseverance lol. thanks for all your comments, they are appreatiated. :)

[Excaliber]

Many people swear that eating a little cheese before bed can also contribute tp OBE success
cheese? i love cheese. i will experiment with this today.... and tomorrow.... and the next day. :o

[CFTraveler]

I just wanted to mention one thing- Sometimes anesthetics simulate death (I have had many experiences with surgery in my family, and I have been told this by medical staff about some anesthetics, and other methods used prior to surgery, such as stopping the heart and temperature lowering), so the person who you are talking about may also have had a Near-Death Experience, something that is not that uncommon in the hospital, so I would advise the use of care- anesthetics have many ways of affecting the body, some more drastic than others. I'm not sure what the percentage is, but some of hospital-related deaths are due to reactions to anesthetics, instead of doctor malfunction.

More info: http://www.howstuffworks.com/anesthesia2.htm

[Justice]

Interesting post. Although I am against any type of drug use, except caffeine, I don't know if I agree with the "tree hugging" approach. History depicts many natural herbs and plants used by shamans in almost every ancient culture. It is usually societal constraints that prevent any usage of mood or mind altering substances, especially the US. They government can’t make money off of it. But they sure do make a ton fighting it. If your point being, taking any substance is counter productive, then maybe you should talk to the Tibetan Monks who drink their urine in the morning to start their day. Why? To get a good dose of melatonin to mellow out their day.

[Beekeeper]

Justice, it is true that shamans everywhere have used psychotropic plants to induce trance, visions and OBE. It's also true that in many places such plants did not exist and shamans learnt to induce trance through drumming, dance, chanting and meditation.

Here's a quote from Graham Hancock's Supernatural, Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind, (Graham Hancock, 2005, pp 70-71). It shows part of one of his experiences using ayahuasca:

The nausea increases and the whole visionary experience ratchets up a notch and becomes more sinister....
I throw up over the back of the bench I'm sitting on. The visions stay strong while I'm vomiting. As I stop and return to the seated position everything ratchets up another notch. The serpents morph into Chinese dragons with beards and long serpentine bodies....
Then another crank of the ratchet. The overall atmosphere - I can't explain why - is now distinctly terrifying and sinister. I see the grey heart-shaped face of an alien again, but with an even stranger, harsher expression than before. And I see what could be space ships - flying saucers - associated with this commanding alien presence. What's frightening is something that would be easy to interpret as an abduction experience - the feeling that if I allow the vision to continue I'm going to be taken up into those metal ships....


This is, of course, only a selection and you are free to judge for yourself.

[Justice]

Well, like I said, the drug route is not for me, and since I have never tried any psycho drugs, I can not judge its usefulness or hurtfulness. In the real world I get positive and negative feed back from both sides of the fence. And I understand your position and respect it, however that does not mean that there is not something possibly there. I don't think that drugs will give you a shortcut to what we are all searching for. It may give you glimpses into the universal quest, but I don't think it would come with full understanding that you might get from naturally experiencing these "things". I mean doesn't this make sense - drugs can give you glimpses into this higher plane, but wouldn't it be so much damn cooler to be able to go on your own with full understanding and mental function? IMO

Self mutilation and pain was often used also wasn't it? You also wont find me sliding metal rods into my skin or slicing my body or burning myself to find what we all search for either. But that does not make it not have a valid truth. Sorry, I just have an open mind on some of these issues that society and government has driven into the universal psyche.

I honestly think that our bodies are probably the single most misunderstood contraption in the universe. I think our bodies produce many many different type of chemicals in response to the proper stimuli. Drugs like MDMA or Ecstacy, simply allows someone to dump a chemical that is already in your body, does it not? I think we have forgotten or chose to forget or made to forget or whatever. But too many unexplained things have been possible and documented with absolutely no understanding on how,why etc... It seems to me that religious zeal has a great deal to do with some special abilities some people have or had. I think this concept is very basic and is not set upon any single religion. The key is the zeal. The ultimate driving zeal that makes things possible that might not seam possible. We probably release certain chemicals that modern science does not see or detect at certain pinnacles of zeal, stress, panic, etc. OK.. to deep... I am going to work.

First off, I'm not suggesting the use of any substances to aid in experiencing OBE's. The original question asked was:


i am just wondering if any of you have tried or have heard of anyone haveing experiences useing certain drugs specifically anesthetics like Ketamine or something like "ether". drugs what are hopefully harmless lol. because i think if you had something to get you into that nice state of very sleepy or boarder-line sleep it might be a good way to make you more loose or something.

Any substance when abused or consumed an in excessive manner can be harmful.

As far as anesthetics, specifically regarding ketamine, I have many friends who have used the drug and have claimed it aided in OBE type experiences. I however doubt their interpretation of an OBE regarding the type of projection these forums are discussing.

I personally have tried Ketamine only once, and DXM once, and neither aided me in producing any out of body experiences. For more information on these drugs, a great archive of information is erowid. Just use google, there's loads of information online, already archived for your reading, which is a much more practical approach to finding the information you seek than asking for responses.

Any drug that makes you drowsy is not a drug that will be helpful in inducing OBE's imo, more than likely it will cause you to fall asleep and also make it more difficult to remember an experience you may have had.

As for my own personal experiences, the only drug I've done that was directly related to me experiencing an OBE was 5-MeO-DMT. I don't suggest it because it's effects are intense and someone unexperienced will likely have a bad experience with such an intense experience. If you want to know more about this experience, you can read this thread:

http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=6537

Again, please do some research, and I recommend erowid for it's wealth of data on this drug and many others.

Many drugs undermine the goal of achieving OBE's, and probably the most practical approach to successful, repeatable, remembered OBE's is without the use of substances.

My goals at this point in time are not directly along those lines, although I do practice projection and lucid dreams regularly. The only drug that I personally advocate is psilocybe cubensis mushrooms. They are a naturally occuring fungi with tryptamine alkaloids as their active hallucinogenic compounds, namely psilocybin and psilocin.

They are not dangerous and are in fact healthy, provided you do not ingest poisonous mushrooms that can look very similar and that you do not ingest contaminated specimens. In order to overdose on these mushrooms you would have to consume your body weight in fresh mushrooms, a physical impossibility.

This does not mean you cannot suffer psychological damage from a high dosage that leads to a traumatic experience. Use common sense and start with an extremely low dosage if you decide to use any drug. From my personal experience, I have found them to have no physical addictive properties.

Some people have addictive personalities, so a substance I find to have no addictive properties may affect someone else differently. Addiction in my opinion is not a disease, but a consequence of a person choosing to abuse a substance.

In conclusion, there really are no shortcuts. I personally view OBE's, projection, and lucid dreaming as tools for learning about my existence, and I also consider a small number of hallucinogens to be of similar use to me. If your goal is simply to achieve projection, then I suggest you do so of your own will and determination. Then you will have developed a skill without the use of any aids and also the energetic development needed to pursue this practice.

[Peter19]

, but wouldn't it be so much damn cooler to be able to go on your own with full understanding and mental function? IMO

yeah i think it would. but one thing in my point of view is if you have your own beliefs and limitations ect that can be in itself putting your boundry up. you are experienceing your experience from a limited mind set and belief system. your own self. i think thats why some drugs can be usefull because they dont change your enviroment (well in a sense they do) but they change your perception of your inviroment. so that why they can also be dangerous because all of your base and your "you" and just be wiped from under your feet in some instinses. thats to me why takeing mind expanding drugs can be good and all so can be bad, because yourself can take a sort of massive blow and for a short time you can see things diffrently ect.

as anyone heard of micheal talbot, holographic universe?, i think some of that info is intresting like, where your beliefs and expectations interfere and cahnge your life. like for instance if you were going to take some magic mushrooms and read info and fed yourself info what said these are extremely powerful and case histories where strange but massively wonderful things happened, in your mind you would be sort of accepting that. and almost feeding it, so it happens with your expectations, and i think what you think a drug will do and believe it too do can change/ effect what it does do.

thanks for everyone comments, i think i wont take any ketamine ect because in the long run use are right, its better too develop your will power where as you want to do something, you do it. easy to say though.

thanks,
regards peter.

[Justice]

Yes, as a matter of fact, I did read it. That is what opened my mind to any of this stuff. It must have been about 5 months ago that I read that book, and a ton of synchronizes slammed me over the course of reading it. Things that I could not just pass up as coincidences. Without writing about 4 pages of a message on it, this is what I have found out since reading that book and feel are truths:
According to three separate independent past-life regressionists. I was a scientist of some sort back in the atleantian age. I created an invention that would have impacted the world as we know it. The bad sect - Baliel? self-indulgent faction, captured me, tortured me and tried to erase my mind. However, according to two of the more successful regressionists, they did not succeed and I stored this information somewhere. Although they have not been successful at opening this information for me, my intuition says I have to find this on my own, and someone else cannot be trusted in seeing or experiencing this with me. One thing that none of them could have lead me to believe or feel is the physical feeling of a device/mask on my face/head creating great pressure across my face at the bridge of the nose down. So, pronounced that I could still feel it strongly in my etheric body today after my third session yesterday. Until I can figure out how to remove this "prison" I will not be able to explore this time to find this information. This is why I am learning about OBE, because I feel drawn to it by my intuition. I have found over the past five months that I have a lot of unique natural abilities. I almost feel as if I need "the right person" or my spirit guide to help me remove this block. I don't really know what to do about it honestly as I am a fairly new metaphysical believer. However, I have read so much in that past 5 months, where my intuition has lead me, which I have jumped ahead in some of my abilities and feelings, that I just continue to follow my "gut."

NOW, if you had asked me pre-reading that book, I would have told you that all of this is garbage and a bunch of hokey-pokey bull... that weirdos waste their time with sitting in circles like a bunch of societal rejects. Being a cynical six foot four, two hundred and forty pound police lieutenant in south Florida, growing up as a catholic alter boy with a very traditional thinking family, this is all a far stretch for me. However, I solidified that these feelings and experiences are as real as corn flakes. The syncs are to strong to ignore, and the experiences I have had over the past 5 months impacting for me to not continue to explore. I can not ignore the physical sensations and balance feelings I got from the chakra clearing I had during my session yesterday. It was not something that was a parlor trick and could not have been faked. The incredible heat that is created in my hands when my reiki fire-up is opened or concentrated on, can not be fake. The sensations I felt during the reiki circle I went to last not, and the ability of the shaman on the bowls to make time disappear for me, could not be fake. etc etc etc... I just need the right person to read my story some day, and say, I know how to release your prison, until then, I continue to explore (in private though, I don't want my co-workers to take me to the loony bin).