FOLLOW UP TO BLACK HOLES AND DARK ENERGY

[eesa]

Hi people, after reading the section under BLACK HOLES AND DARK ENERGY i thought some of you may find this info which i am about to give quite intresting or may be not, but any way in the quran which is the holy book of muslims (1400 yrs old) it quite vividly tries to explain the begining of the universe, the functioning, the end and even what is to follow after the end of our present universe.

Quran:21.30- "Do those who deny not realize that once the expanse (heavens, space) and matter (earth, mass) were one united entity and it is we who tore them apart."

this verse ties in to the widely accepted theory that from a single point the big bang occured giving us space and mass and time.

Quran:21.33"Then he turned to the expanse when it was hot smoke....."
this is describing when after the initial mighty explosion when space was begining and matter was in the form of hot particles it goes on to describe that from this particles matter was formed.

Quran: "and it is we who created the universe with power and we are redily expanding it"
again we now know that the univers is expanding!

QURAN:21.33" the sun and the moon both travel in their prescribed orbits"
another verse which i remember but dont remember the section at the top of my head states:
QURAN:" By the heaven full of paths" indicating the billions of orbits of celestial bodies having their own specific orbits.

The quran goes on to state that the univers is in continious creation and destruction
QURAN: chapter AR RAHMAAN: and every day your lord is engaged in creation and destruction, and soon we shall turn our attention to you oh man kind and jinn (jinns are concious entities which have free will simailar to humans but live in a slightly higher dimension from which they can sense us but they are invisible to our senses) the QURAN says about them(jinns) " they see you from where you see them not"
but back to the previous section(ar rahmaan) this verse indicates that new planetery systems are continiously beng created and it indicates that our solar system will end long before the end of the universe and there may be many other solar systems to come(and every day your lord is engaged in creation and destruction).
oh and if your wondering about extra terrestrials many historical muslim scholars some of hundreds of years ago have written in many famous musim textt books of life on other planets they use these evidences from the quran "he is lord of the worldS" ,"and every one in living in the expanse (heavens) and on earth need(beg) of their lord", "and if he had willed he could have created you in forms that you have no idea of"

BLACK HOLES
QURAN: CHAPTER: TAARIK:"By the heaven and taarik and what shall make you know what a taarik is? it is a star that tears( pierces, rip)
only a dead star in the state of a black hole rips time and space apart.

END OF THE PRESENT UNIVERSE
QURAN:21:105:"
AND REMEMBER THE DAY WHEN THE UNIVERSE WILL BE ROLLED UP LIKE THAT OF A SCROLL"

QURAN: CHPTR:NABA: and the heavens(space) will become as GATES. and man kind shall come in crowds"
" the drive shall be back to your lord"
69.14:" the earth and the mountains will be crushed but with a single crushing to prticles"
"it wil be a single crushing what a awefull forcefull crushing it shall be"

it is quite clear from the above verses the quran depicts that space will be
torn opened up and every thing shall be sucked back in as the opposite of the expanding universe. and when you read about the crushing it is quite clear that every thing will be compressed back to where it came from. so it seems like while the universe expands their is order but in the folling verse we read" WHEN THE STARS FALL AND THE SUN COLLIDES WITH THE MOON AND THE SEA IS BURST FORTH(or burns)......"
all this indicates that at the end of time the gates shall be opened i think it means the black holes become open or become more active the universe will start being sucked back in until the entire universe is crushed back in to a size smaller than a pin head during the reversal there will be no more order but total chaos.

WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE END OF PRESENT UNIVERSE?

QURAN30:7: "As we began the fist creation we shall repeat it, a promise binding on us that we shall fulfill" this indicates like the 1st creation from singularity came big bang, but when the 2nd singularity is formed after the retraction of the universe back to the point of singularity there shall be another big bang but every thing will emerge on the other side this place will have totally different features from what we noknow now.
QURAN:" YOU SHALL COME POURING FORTH FROM YOUR GRAVES LIKE LOCUSTS"
"THE VEIL SHALL BE LIFTED....."
" YOUR SIGHT SHALL BE SHARP"
"EYES AND HEARTS WILL BE OVER TURNED"(i.e in the present life we have the five senses whith which we sense or see this is our outer.
and our 6th sense, intuition, imagination is the inner. so here we have inner and outer.outer is normal concious sensing while the inner is secondary or sub concious. but in the other or next universe your five senses become inner and now your subconcious or 6th sense or inner becomes the outer) .
69.18: ON THAT DAY YOU SHALL BE EXPOSED NOT A SECRET SHALL BE HIDDEN.......YOUR RECORD SHALL BE LAID OUT INFRONT OF YOU.....THIS IS THE DAY OF REGRET OR JOY....NO ONE CAN HELP NO ONE....MAN SHALL BE A WITNESS TO HIM SELF.....EVERY SOUL SHALL REAP WHAT THEY SOWED IN THE DAYS GONE BY.....SOME FACES WILL BE LIT BRIGHT WIYH JOY OTHERS DOWNCAST.....THEY WILL ASK ONE ANOTHER "HOW MANY YEARS DID YOU STAY ON EARTH THEY WILL REPLY MAY BE A DAY OR SO....THE DAY OF JUSTICE....DEATH NO MORE....SOME SHALL SAY" IF ONLY WE HAD USED OUR INTELLECT WE WOULD HAVE REALIZED, SEND US BACK THAT WE MAY GET THAT WHICH WE LEFT BEHIND" BUT THERE IS NO WAY BACK FOR THEM NOW...
SOME WILL RUSH BACK YO THERE KINS AND SHALL SAY" HEAR SEE MY RECORD THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE EARNT" THEY SHALL BE REJOICING THIS IS THE TRUE SUCCESS.....THE LIFE OF THE WORLD IS NOTHING BUT AMUSEMENT AND PLAY WITH MUTUAL RIVALRY IN WEALTH BUT TRUE LIFE IS THAT THEY TRY TO EARN AS MUCH GOOD AS THAY CAN... FOR THE LIFE TO COME....

with the description after the end of this universe we shall emerge on the other side after being sucked in the black holes and a new universe shall emege but with totally different laws of physics. there your primary senses will be your inner sense which we have hear and this will become the outer or primary sense and the 5 senses shsll become the inner there.
a record of all that we had done will become apparent in some form of record may be some kind of energy negative or psotive energieS. Time will be much differnt alife time hear will feel the equivelent to a day there, the next universe is much more grand in every way this universe will not cime to an end. the negative and posotive energies shall seperate those that are in the posotive side will be jejoicing like never before. those that end up in the negative side will have too much regret to even desciribe.

the verses which i have not numberd or refrenced it is only because i can not remember at the top of my head but i can look for them if any one asks also check these out your self thats what idid. sorry if i bored any one.

[wstein]

Quran:"we who tore them apart"
Quran:"it is we who created the universe with power and we are redily expanding it"

This aspect of 'we' being the cause seems much more interesting than the parallels to current physics.

Quran:21.30- "Do those who deny not realize that once the expanse (heavens, space) and matter (earth, mass) were one united entity and it is we who tore them apart."

this verse ties in to the widely accepted theory that from a single point the big bang occured giving us space and mass and time.

I disagree with your interpretation. My interpretation of this passage is that the beginning of the universe consisted of the "one" aware, consciousness. That means, the universe began when it grew to a point of being aware. After awhile, I believe it chose to impart small portions of it's consciousness into beings such as ourselves, and in this aspect I don't believe we're responsible for any misdeed, but we recieved a part of this larger network of consciousness or beings consciousness in order to learn and experience, and upon death, contribute our experiences to this network. I believe it was a willing and purposeful act of this awareness in imparting us with a fraction of it's awareness.

Your post to me represents the inherent dangers of any religion. All religions may have begun with the intentions of imparting knowledge or enlightenment, but end up being mis-interpreted, then different sects who interpret them differently end up going to war and murdering each other for having different beliefs. My point is, if you choose to follow a religion, form your own personal interpretation and follow it. But please don't try to tell anyone else what is a correct interpretation, or try to force your belief upon anyone else.

The really ironic part is that ultimately, (in my opinon) at the most fundamental level, we are all one in the same with this one universal consciousness, and that all matter is generated at the quantum level by consciousness, so in fact there has been no "tearing apart" but we simply have chosen to percieve our reality differently leading to this incorrect belief.


Quran: "and it is we who created the universe with power and we are redily expanding it"
again we now know that the univers is expanding!

Yes, the universe is indeed expanding, and the quran is correct in inferring that it is our intent, our will, our ability to create with our consciousness and awareness, that is the very force CAUSING the expansion of the universe. In other words, consciousness itself, when it creates, expands our universe.

Also, the big bang theory predicts an acclerating rate of expansion 1000 times that which is being observed by astronomers. Supporters of the big bang have tried to resolve this difference between observation and theory with black matter and other ideas, but have failed to do so. Please don't fall into the trap of accepting other people's interpretations, it's vitally important that you form your own!!!

I don't expect nor hope any one takes my word and accepts it as fact. I encourage everyone to research and decide for themselves.

[eesa]

Hi there, firstly i would like to point out that i am not trying to say that i have the answers or that my understanding is the only correct understanding. All im trying to do is pass on infomation which i have found during my my search, which i have found very facinating. All my aim is that i would like to share what i have found. Some may find it facinating or some may find nothing there. Its down to each person.

The verses which i have quoted are not my words these are exactly what is written in the quran. Your explanation may be correct or it may not be,
and i may be wrong. But at least we are trying to gain a better understanding by exchaning info, you never know when or where you will gain more insights, its all a learning curve!

Your quote where you say I BELIEVE IT CHOSE TO IMPART SMALL PORTIONS OF CONCIOUSNESS INTO BEINGS SUCH AS OURSELVES made me think it sort of does make sense, in the quran it also says some thing similar: AND WE BREATHED SOME THING OF OUR SPIRIT INTO EVERY INDIVIDUAL.
The quran explains that it is this spirit which is deep within us is a trust given to us and we shall be brought back to where we came. This trust is the biggest gift which we can have. But unfotunately most people ignore what is deep within them. when ignoring it for so long we become lost.
the main theme in the quran is that we should look and contemplate on our world and see the signs and also to look within, all this will point to a purposeful design. all the quran does is it tries to awaken that which is within man kind, and it also teaches never to follow blindly but to use our own minds to come to answers. T he answer is always within, the quran in my opinion is a tool for this aswell as a guidance.

I disagree with your opinion that religions cause wars, wars occur when one group of people tries to do one over the other. either to dominate for the good one group over another or greed or when one group competes in a common goal, divisions cause wars not religions.
the modern conflicts today lets take the isreali palistinian conflict is not because of judaism V islam but the conflict is over land. jewish people have lived in that area together with islam formore than 1300 yrs. they lived together peace fully side by side SHARING the same land, so much so that when the european crusades attacked this area the jews and CHRISTIONSof that area fought together with the muslims to repel the invaders! in the middle east you will stil find jews and christians living in muslim countries and they have been there for genarations. islam governed that area for more than 1300yrs and had the power to covert ththem had they wished but they never because in the quran it states there is no compulsion in beleifs, it is a prsonel choice.
in india muslims ruled for many hundreds of years and had the power to convert every one but they did not you will find that in india there are still many other religions. today islam is the fastest growing religion on earth i can not see people forcing these new converts can you?
in fact islam was able to unite the arabs and the africans and the asians and chinese and europeans all under one roof without borders.
i am not saying muslims have never done wrong, because ther is bad every where. my point is that i was not trying to force any thing on any one it was just passing on info.

i follow the quran not because some one told me to but i decided to my self. the quran is 1400 yrs old it is still in its original form, ther are no versions of it you can go from america to chinafor sure they are exactly letter ror letter exactly the same. when i see that the quran talks about scientific facts which have only been discoverd and it explains life and gives it purpose to it and it discusses things which could never have been known 1400yrs ago.
it talks about biology, chemistry, psychology, physics, astronomy, meta physics, economy, society, laws, and it talks about all this and points to such facts which we have only discoverd recently which could not have been known back then.e.g the quran says in the eyes of god man and woman are equal and if you count the amount of time it mentions the word man and woman it is exactly 23 times each, this cant be coincidance . and why 23 times? does not it take 23 chromosomes from each to make a human 23 from father 23 from mother=baby 46! there are many more to list. the whole quran is a couple of hundred pages long the subjects are vast and all this is conveyed in a rytham and rhyme.
the entire quran uses only 4 letters to make the entire rhyme throughout the quran. the ONE challenges man kind that in the quran:
" if you are in doubt about this revelation then produce a chapter like it"

did i forget to mention that the person this revalation came to, his name was muhamed (pbuh) he was a uneducated person who could not read or write. it has been 1400 years and still the challenge has not been met as time goes by more of its secrets become apparent.
"QURAN: AND WE HAVE PROTECTED THIS BOOK FROM CORRUPTION..."
1400 yrs old and still in its original form. no one has even been able to match the litarcy deployed in the quran. even just listening to its recitation makes you think how could aman write some thing like this. listening to it takes one in to a meditative state.

it is for these reasons i believe that this book must truly be a divine book
it is said in the quran that there have been many books sent before and all thes were from the same source and there have been many teachers (messengers) sent previously so i beleve in that the same source sent jesus, moses may be bhudda, and may be many others all taught the one message.

how can one explain that if it is not truly divine then from where did this quran originate

Many "uneducated" people often have the most un-influenced, or untainted perceptions of our world. Your explanation of the quran leads me to believe that it may be a very useful and enlightening book, that may help man discover the truths within him or herself, and also the nature of their reality.
This is a great achievement, but it does not prove to me that it was created by some divine force or the "one".

I am glad that you find inspiration in the quran, but I hope you form your own interpretations from what it says, and that you don't accept everything in it as absolute truth. After all the quran itself teaches you that you can find absolute truth within yourself, and by understanding and exploring your existence (at least that's my understanding of what you're saying). My personal opinion is that the quran was written by someone who may have been enlightened, and regardless of whether they could read or write, they could have had someone transcribe their ideas for them.

Anyhow I have enjoyed hearing your interpretation of some of the passages and learning some of the concepts presented in the quran.. I haven't had the opportunity to study it myself.