Nnonnth
23rd February 2007, 12:51 PM
Hi Robert,
First of all I would like to thank you for all your work and all the wonderful stuff you are teaching.
My question follows on from an older one to you on this forum, which concerned the reason for undergoing kundalini in a 'what happens after that?' kinda way.
You mentioned that:
Many possibilities arise, depending on the degree of enlightenment of the individual at the time. From here, one can stay in the real time zone and wander the Earth and act as a spirit helper, helping people in any way one chooses. Or, one could attach to one particular person and act as that person's spirit guide. This may be the origins of some spirits.
Or, one could begin the path of the masters, maybe as a junior master, although this path probably only becomes possible much later in the enlightenment process.
What I wanted to relate this to was the question of what it actually means to be a 'master'. It seems strange to be thinking about this at my paltry stage of evolution, but it's a subject that has arisen again and again in my mind and in conversations with others.
Although I'm not a Buddhist myself, I have hung around with them a little, and they always seem to feel mastery implies a total merger with God/All Things/however you want to put that.
Then again, in Bardon's 'Practice of Magical Evocation', there is this interesting passage:
It is decided in the higher spheres whether a magician wishes to attain the highest perfection or if he wishes to become a saint. A magician who strives for the highest perfection is the highest and greatest lord in creation... a saint remains with one aspect [of God] and he perfects himself in this aspect. He becomes a part of this aspect and, when the perfection of this aspect eventually comes into being within him, he loses his perfected individuality. The highest perfection that a human being can ever achieve is that of a true sovereign, a true magician.... he never loses and never relinquishes his individuality.
My feeling is that Bardon is very right on this. It seems to me that 'the ultimate' as some people conceive of it is not really the ultimate! When people talk of a final 'merging with God', it seems to me that they are talking about what Bardon calls 'sainthood'. For example, they would identify completely with God's love and eventually that love would bloom in them to such a degree that there was no difference between them and it.
But such a merger really is talking only about God's love. Such a person, in merging totally with that aspect - the watery aspect - will have lost completely the Fiery omnipotence, the Airy omniscience, the Earthy eternity, which we are also given to develop to their maximum extent.
I don't know anyone who really knows the answers to these things, but I have always wondered what you yourself would say about it. I know you work with Bardon's system, but at the same time you are not all about the elements the way he is.
In Eastern systems there is alot said about completely relinquishing one's ego (Buddhism) and 'becoming unfathomable' (Taoism) but I have not ever seen it said there that the highest thing a human can ever do is remain him- or herself but so completely that all his/her aspects are equivalent to those of God.
What do you think? :roll: To me it all goes to the bigger question of where human evolution is supposed to end up. To hear some people talk, you would think that the whole idea of being human and incarnate is some kind of a mistake (!) and that all we can do is relinquish our individuality as soon as possible to save ourselves from the mistake... I don't see how that can be so, but some people who think this are very firm about it.
Best, NN
First of all I would like to thank you for all your work and all the wonderful stuff you are teaching.
My question follows on from an older one to you on this forum, which concerned the reason for undergoing kundalini in a 'what happens after that?' kinda way.
You mentioned that:
Many possibilities arise, depending on the degree of enlightenment of the individual at the time. From here, one can stay in the real time zone and wander the Earth and act as a spirit helper, helping people in any way one chooses. Or, one could attach to one particular person and act as that person's spirit guide. This may be the origins of some spirits.
Or, one could begin the path of the masters, maybe as a junior master, although this path probably only becomes possible much later in the enlightenment process.
What I wanted to relate this to was the question of what it actually means to be a 'master'. It seems strange to be thinking about this at my paltry stage of evolution, but it's a subject that has arisen again and again in my mind and in conversations with others.
Although I'm not a Buddhist myself, I have hung around with them a little, and they always seem to feel mastery implies a total merger with God/All Things/however you want to put that.
Then again, in Bardon's 'Practice of Magical Evocation', there is this interesting passage:
It is decided in the higher spheres whether a magician wishes to attain the highest perfection or if he wishes to become a saint. A magician who strives for the highest perfection is the highest and greatest lord in creation... a saint remains with one aspect [of God] and he perfects himself in this aspect. He becomes a part of this aspect and, when the perfection of this aspect eventually comes into being within him, he loses his perfected individuality. The highest perfection that a human being can ever achieve is that of a true sovereign, a true magician.... he never loses and never relinquishes his individuality.
My feeling is that Bardon is very right on this. It seems to me that 'the ultimate' as some people conceive of it is not really the ultimate! When people talk of a final 'merging with God', it seems to me that they are talking about what Bardon calls 'sainthood'. For example, they would identify completely with God's love and eventually that love would bloom in them to such a degree that there was no difference between them and it.
But such a merger really is talking only about God's love. Such a person, in merging totally with that aspect - the watery aspect - will have lost completely the Fiery omnipotence, the Airy omniscience, the Earthy eternity, which we are also given to develop to their maximum extent.
I don't know anyone who really knows the answers to these things, but I have always wondered what you yourself would say about it. I know you work with Bardon's system, but at the same time you are not all about the elements the way he is.
In Eastern systems there is alot said about completely relinquishing one's ego (Buddhism) and 'becoming unfathomable' (Taoism) but I have not ever seen it said there that the highest thing a human can ever do is remain him- or herself but so completely that all his/her aspects are equivalent to those of God.
What do you think? :roll: To me it all goes to the bigger question of where human evolution is supposed to end up. To hear some people talk, you would think that the whole idea of being human and incarnate is some kind of a mistake (!) and that all we can do is relinquish our individuality as soon as possible to save ourselves from the mistake... I don't see how that can be so, but some people who think this are very firm about it.
Best, NN