OBE work and ADHD

[Mekiel]

Hello guys.

Thought I would reach out and shed some light on some of my problems when it comes to spiritual work.

I am diagnosed with ADHD. I will not go into a detailed description of what that is all about. If you need more info about it have a look at wiki.

Anyway adhd is the biggest problem for me when it comes to energy work, meditation, astral projection, etc etc. The problem is focusing attention long enough to actually get into a deep meditative trance. Not to speak of the internal dialogue. I mean he wont EVER shut up. Luckily for me my energy body is a loose fit. Meaning it falls out of itself sometimes. And after having a lovely time outside, flying, and Jumping mostly. I am usually able to recall it. My shadow memory recall is not half bad.

Now I am in a position in my life where adhd is becoming a very big problem. And I have decided to take up the fight again. This means a new round with medication. Good for me there is new medicine to be had that works very diffrently than traditional ADHD medicine has done in the past. Earlier medication was Ritalin(Amphetamines). The new medication is called Straterra, and works diffrently. I am not sure of the details about this one.

Ok now to the core here. Is there anyone else out there with the same problems? Is there anyone on the new medication (straterra) that are able to focus for needed trance work? Does anyone know if medication will actually hinder energy, and trance work like this?

I am at a loss here. I am not geting any headway without medication, and I dont know if it will be a hindrance of my work. My ultimate goal is to tame the mind. To have inner peace at last. I am so tired of all the chaos up there.

Thank you for your time.

Mekiel (a name I got on my thrid trip outside)

[CFTraveler]

Mekiel sounds like an angel name.
I don't have ADHD and don't have any specific info about straterra, but my understanding about these medications is that they're stimulants, and as far as I know stimulants don't affect the ability to OBE.
A bit ago I was asked if my projecting monthly had anything to do with being female, and I thought that my monthly cycles and my heavy use of NSAIDS for cramps could keep me from projecting, and I though maybe- until I projected while using them, showing that it didn't really make a difference, that energy storage is prob. the main factor, and being 49, that may have to do with it. My opinion: If straterra is a stimulant, then it may even help, because (I would think) it would help keep you aware when you spontaneously project.
.02
In other words, let us know if you see a difference!

[Mekiel]

Thank you for your response.

Thats about all I know about straterra.. It is NOT a stimulant like ritalin, or the other "stimulants"

I think it was meant to be anti depressive medicine, then they found out there was no actual effect as an anti depressive, but gave ppl with adhd good effect.. Go figure hehe

But I will give it a try and see where I go...

Mekiel ( and yes I think it sounds like an angel name... it was given to me on a sort of jigsaw puzzle that I put together.. it wasnt a hard one.. more like a childs toy hehe )

[Palehorse Redivivus]

I'm majorly ADD, and I too have been trying to come up with ways to work around it, for the sake of my metaphysical misadventures, among lots of other things. After finding out that I was, only about a year and a half ago, I saw a neuro and experimented with the drugs for a while (adderall) but had a bad experience with 'em and just abandoned that approach entirely before long. My idea in the first place had been to use them to experience and get a handle on what kind of mental state I was shooting for, and then learn to duplicate it on my own so I didn't have to take them forever. I actually told the doc that, and she insisted that wasn't possible. Which, naturally, meant that I had to do it. :wink: And I have been. Not saying that you shouldn't go on them; I'm sure there are people who benefit from them, and I'm all for doing what works to get you where you want to go. It's just not my approach.

First of all, if you're anything like me, then this:


And I have decided to take up the fight again.

...may be part of the problem. This isn't a fight. What you're trying to do is retrain an aspect of yourself to behave as you want it to. When one aspect of yourself is in a fight with another, who wins? My point is that while it does take a lot of effort and patience, the mentality of struggle and conflict can set one back a lot more than it helps. At the very least, it can easily lead to frustration and kill your morale. I've found that the most effective mental approach for myself is a lot like the approach I use with ADD kids I've worked with -- lots of patience and understanding, constant redirection, and lots of praise for each small milestone. Aspects of the self are much like little kids in this regard actually; they aim to please, but fight them on it and they'll just rebel, and not a whole lot gets done.

Along those lines, I recommend setting small goals for yourself in meditation. Get a stopwatch, and try to keep your mind free of chatter for ten seconds. When you do it once, let yourself feel good about it. When you can do it consistently, move on to twenty. The CD that comes with Robert Bruce's "Mastering Astral Projection" is actually good for this. It comes with brainwave software that you can set to sound a soft beep at regular intervals, that you can increase as you get more proficient; its a great way to mark time and keep track of your progress. Beyond that, I'm not entirely convinced that it's crucial to completely eliminate all trace of mental activity to get into deep trance; it may be more important to simply cultivate that "passive observer" state, and simply let those thoughts pass through without engaging or getting caught up in them. All I know is that I've had meditation sessions that I thought were too "all over the place" to accomplish anything; only realizing later that I had been in some level of trance, or otherwise accomplished things I once only thought possible in a deep trance with total mental clarity. Relatively recently I did also manage to get into deep trance consciously for the first time, and have been able to since, even though my mind still isn't totally clear. I've also had more than one friend with ADD tell me "I don't know if you could consider what I do meditation, because my mind is still all over the place, but it still seems to be effective." So make of that what you will; maybe we just have our own style. :P

One thing I've noticed as I've traveled is that my ADD is a lot less of a problem in less crowded areas. This has led me to theorize that in addition to the sensory overload of too much going on at once, some of us may be more sensitive to what Robert Monroe called "M-band noise" -- the chaotic mental energy and static put off by all the thoughts and feelings of other people. Once I discovered the concepts of grounding, centering and shielding, I found that they helped a lot in dealing with this effect. I'm really conscious of it now even just going out in public; if I forget to my brain starts feeling pretty scrambled, and when I do I feel a lot more "all there" and generally normal. Anyway, there are long threads on grounding/centering/shielding here and this post is already getting to be long enough as is, so just stick those terms in the search box.

Around the same time I discovered those techniques I was also experimenting with stones and their preported metaphysical properties. I've found amethyst and lapis to be good for focus in meditation, and tiger iron is my fav for grounding. I wear amethyst and tiger iron most of the time, but for normal everyday stuff lapis seems to make me feel a bit spaced out, which isn't what we're shooting for. But if you're interested in exploring this side of things for yourself, it's something you really have to experiment with and see what produces the best effects for you personally.

Have also done a bit with self-hypnosis, and I think its helped, but there's not a whole lot I can say about it other than "grab a few books," lol.

Last thing I can think of thats been helping me lately on a lot of levels, is redefining my identity how I choose, by being very careful what I allow myself to think or believe about myself, and by using "I AM" statements to reflect what I want to be. So for instance, if you can manage to replace the idea that "I am a person with ADD," "I am scattered and unfocused," or whatever, with "I am able to direct my focus anywhere I choose for any length of time," only allow yourself to tell yourself those more positive things, and manage to get it implanted in your subconscious, you might find that your mind starts to cooperate a bit more voluntarily. :P

[kiwibonga]

I wrote this on Astral Society, in response to someone who complained about ADD preventing them from focusing and inducing an OBE.


Forget about ADD, you're just as capable as anyone else.... Be more confident in yourself, and you'll succeed. If your first reaction is "it's difficult because I have ADD," of course you'll fail... Not because you have ADD, but because you decided that you would fail. Think positively, "it CAN happen to me, I CAN do it" ; there's more to all this than techniques, you need to remove the barriers you've set yourself before you can go through "natural" barriers...

I have the crappiest attention span, I'll be writing something and the next minute I'll be standing up, looking out the window, wondering when I got up from my chair and why I stopped writing... I always forget what I'm doing, it even happens when I'm speaking, I sometimes feel like a senile old man in a 22 year old's body.. I would probably get diagnosed with ADD if I asked a doctor, yet I was able to have 12 OBEs in less than a year... It's not huge, but it's still something.

Just view it like this: everyone has ADD, it's just that some people manage to hide it better than others! It would be worrisome if our mind didn't switch focus so often... What if you're focusing on the TV and don't ever lose focus? Will you stay in front of the TV for 20 hours straight? Of course not, your mind has to wander from time to time, to check on things around you, to see if you're feeling comfortable, if you need to eat or go to the bathroom, if there's something you should be doing, etc... It's impossible to go against this, and that's why meditation is tricky...

The basic premise is that you need to empty your mind... But it's impossible to think of nothing... So you focus on one thing and pretend it's the only thing that exists... Take your breathing, your heartbeat, the ringing in your ears, etc.. The first few times you'll try it, you won't be able to focus for more than 3 seconds, and that's perfectly normal, but as you practice and practice, that timeframe will increase, and that's when you'll start making progress.

I may have worded it somewhat harshly, mostly because I am strongly opinionated about the subject -- I'm personally against medicating attention disorders...

There's the hyperactive kids who throw tantrums all the time, run around everywhere and end up hurting themselves and others because of a genuine chemical imbalance that is causing them to have radical mood swings. Those would definitely benefit from the treatment...

But then there's the "dreamers" who make up the majority of diagnosed patients; they're just kids who have trouble paying attention in class for the most part. They don't have any of the physiological problems the "real sick kids" get -- they do have an attention problem, but the cause is not physiological.

I don't know which category you fall into, but believe me, the monkey chatter, the chaos in your head, it's perfectly normal and it will not stop you from having an experience, quite on the contrary.

This property the mind has of constantly focusing to new things is not something you should try to turn off ; nurture it!

Trance is brought about when you get rid of all external signals. Getting "lost in your thoughts" is a great way to do just that!

What you want to do is direct the thoughts at first, try to influence your sleep so that you pick your dreams, for example. Imagine a scenario and let your thoughts flow freely, become one with the subconscious.

Whether you have ADD, ADHD, or ABCDEFG... If you can think, if you can sleep, if you can dream, you can have the OBE, there's nothing to worry about!

[Jimbobjoejr]

My idea in the first place had been to use them to experience and get a handle on what kind of mental state I was shooting for, and then learn to duplicate it on my own so I didn't have to take them forever. I actually told the doc that, and she insisted that wasn't possible.
a doctor told you that? O.o
she must not have heard of biofeedback therapy then. i did that twice a week for about a year and basically reprogrammed my brain to where i could control it. worked extremely well, never needed medications after that. though they never really worked for me anyway.

so it is definitely possible. :)

[Palehorse Redivivus]

a doctor told you that? O.o
she must not have heard of biofeedback therapy then. i did that twice a week for about a year and basically reprogrammed my brain to where i could control it. worked extremely well, never needed medications after that. though they never really worked for me anyway.

so it is definitely possible. :)

Yeah, I got the impression that her position was that ADD is a problem with brain chemistry, so the only way to fix it is with more chemicals, and no amount of effort on my part could ever take the place of the drugs. Of course we both know differently from experience, but I, a lowly patient, didn't see much to be gained from trying to explain all this to an MD type. :roll: Though now that I've actually done it, maybe I'll make another appointment just to go in and say "neener neener!" :P

[CFTraveler]

Palehorse wrote:
Beyond that, I'm not entirely convinced that it's crucial to completely eliminate all trace of mental activity to get into deep trance; it may be more important to simply cultivate that "passive observer" state, and simply let those thoughts pass through without engaging or getting caught up in them. I vehemently second and third that emotion.

About ADD: There is a comedian (It could be Mencia, I'm not sure) that said a great truth in his standup routine- He said his sister(?) medicates her kids because "they have ADD", but then they spend hours playing their gameboys and playstations. If you can play a video game for hours, you don't have ADD. It's just that modern parents think kids are somehow supposed to act like miniature adults, and when they act like kids, they immediately label them, and the doctors diagnose kids with ADD all the time without doing the proper tests.
I don't know what your case is, and of course there is genuine ADD, but I know one person (my niece) that doesn't have ADD when she's in my house- but as soon as she gets home, the chaotic atmosphere of her family is reflected in her, and 'boom'- she is growing up with the label.

[Mekiel]

thank you guys. good points from all of you.

However one thing that is very important. Some kids get wrongly labeled with adhd. And that may as you say be mostly due to wrong parenting, or a chaotic atmsophere in the home. But some kids really do have adhd. And I am not saying medication is the only solution. But with these kids there really is a chemical unbalance. And not medicating, or at least coming up with some sort of treatment would be very wrong against the child.

In my case there is no doubt that the chaos in my mind, the unability to focus has something to do with chemical unbalance. I even thought once that I might have some serious neg attatchements that adds to the confusion. However I have decided for the good of my social life (unemployment, relationship issues etc) that a new round of medication is in order. If not a permanent solution then at least to get my bearing again. I used ritalin for one and half year last time, and to good effect. Then in the end I got some bad effects of it. I wont go into those details here.

I thank you all for ecouraging words. There is absolute truth in that belief in one self has everything to to with it. One can not after all become somthing else if one does not believe it is possible.

Concerning mental chatter in areas with large crowds. I believe there is truth in this. I have not conciously expored this. But I allways get unconfertable and unfocused when outside where there are a lot of ppl. And in ques especially.

I use the BWgen to good effect. And will try the milestone approach you speak off. Try to come up with a reward system for myself. Hehe.

Mekiel

[CFTraveler]

Mekiel wrote:
Some kids get wrongly labeled with adhd. And that may as you say be mostly due to wrong parenting, or a chaotic atmsophere in the home. But some kids really do have adhd. And I am not saying medication is the only solution. But with these kids there really is a chemical unbalance. And not medicating, or at least coming up with some sort of treatment would be very wrong against the child. I agree completely. I wasn't trying to say that was your case, I just was ranting about the way our culture seems to pathologize whatever it can't control. You are the best judge of what is good for you. And if it works, it works.
My brother had a little friend (so many years ago) who was adhd. He would take off from his house (about 5 miles away downhill) and would end up in our house. He received the right therapy and grew up to become a successful adult. So I do understand how important it is to be properly diagnosed and treated.

[Tempestinateapot]

I'm kind of in between drugs and no drugs. My youngest son (now 29) was one of the most hyper-active kids I've ever seen. A family friend, who is a psychiatrist, spent lunch and an afternoon watching him when he was about 8. She said that he definitely was ADD (this was long before they changed the diagnosis to ADHD), but that her feeling was that unless a child literally couldn't sit down for 5 minutes, that they shouldn't be drugged. Her daughter was on Ritalin.

He has had trouble all his life with concentrating. He has never (ever) read a book, cover to cover. He simply can't. But, he can play video games for hours on end. After watching him for so many years, I took an ADHD test, and I could definitely be diagnosed with it (or rather, the adult version). I've had trouble all my life. But, I can read a book, cover to cover. But, if I'm in a conversation with someone in which I'm bored, you can move heaven and earth, and I can't concentrate on it. Thus, I do a lot of avoiding of talking with certain people. :D

So, my point is that I think it affects different people different ways. It was difficult for me in the beginning to go into a trance. After practice, I could drop into a deep trance in a matter of seconds. I still have problems now and then. When you get the heebee geebees (otherwise known as wanting to crawl out of your skin), there is nothing that will help, except sheer determination. And, even then, there are times I have to just give up.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with trying out a medication. To me, use anything that works. Ritalin is over prescribed in the U.S. No doubt about it. But, when I think back on all the poor teachers that had to put up with my obnoxious son (not to mention me), I wonder if putting him through a regimen of chemicals might have helped him and made everyone's life a little easier. He only deals well with it now, because he's learned to compensate as an adult. He never admitted to me he couldn't read a book until he was in his mid 20's. I now think of all the wonderful books he's missed out on in his life. If he had been taking a drug for the ADD, things might have been different for him. Now, he just listens to audio books. But, those are pretty limited to only certain books.

So, I would say if there is a new drug out there that might be able to help, go for it. And, let us know how you do on it. Maybe some of us might want to try it. :D

[Palehorse Redivivus]

However one thing that is very important. Some kids get wrongly labeled with adhd. And that may as you say be mostly due to wrong parenting, or a chaotic atmsophere in the home. But some kids really do have adhd. And I am not saying medication is the only solution. But with these kids there really is a chemical unbalance. And not medicating, or at least coming up with some sort of treatment would be very wrong against the child.

I have theorized that ADD could be, at least in large part, what happens when you try to crowbar creative, intelligent or otherwise "out of the ordinary" minds into a school system that was designed with the industrial revolution in mind, to encourage conformity and for the most part discourage questioning and critical thought. I particularly remember taking some ADD diagnosis quizzes online and reading other info, and there were a lot of traits it brought up that were eerily familiar, and I never would've thought to be related to this disorder -- such as issues with obeying authority. Anyway, I don't think it's just the school system; there are probably a lot of potential causes, but I do think there's good reason to believe this all ties in.

But yeah, I too am torn on the idea of medicating kids for these sorts of things. It's definitely overprescribed in this country, and all too often used just to make the kids more docile for the sake of the teachers and parents. But at the same time, after working with a lot of these kids myself, there are some who literally can't focus, can't sit still, can't coexist without it. So, IMO, when it becomes a matter of the individual not being able to get anything done, probably keeping others from getting anything done, and sometimes even becoming a safety issue, then there comes a point at which medication can probably be considered a legitimate and viable option. All the same, my overall thought in the matter is that medication should be seen as a tool, rather than a solution in itself.


In my case there is no doubt that the chaos in my mind, the unability to focus has something to do with chemical unbalance. I even thought once that I might have some serious neg attatchements that adds to the confusion. However I have decided for the good of my social life (unemployment, relationship issues etc) that a new round of medication is in order. If not a permanent solution then at least to get my bearing again. I used ritalin for one and half year last time, and to good effect. Then in the end I got some bad effects of it. I wont go into those details here.

Right on; I'll be interested in hearing how things unfold for you, as well as any insight or further tools and approaches you come up with. :)


I use the BWgen to good effect. And will try the milestone approach you speak off. Try to come up with a reward system for myself. Hehe.

Lol, eeeexcellent. :D One thing that came to mind after I posted is that I threw out kind of a lot of different approaches in no particular order... and that might be an ADD kid's worst nightmare. :P I know with me, I started out not having any idea what the real problem was, let alone what to do about it. In that sense, having an actual diagnosis to work with helped me out a lot in figuring out my approach. Even still, since I dispensed with the more "traditional" options and tried to sort it out on my own, I wasn't very efficient about it, due to the tendency to jump from one approach to another without really knowing if I was accomplishing anything. I didn't have any kind of plan or direction other than "try everything I can possibly come up with until something starts working." If I could do it over again from the beginning I would recommend taking the tools you feel might work for you, and setting up some kind of official weekly regimen for yourself, on paper, posted somewhere that you'll be reminded to do it every day. That way you have something concrete to follow, and can keep track of progress to help with morale. Even having another person around who's willing to remind you and work with you on it, or even someone you can partner with who's working on the same issues, would probably help a lot; I just didn't have that. And I'm horrible at sticking to regimens. :P

But I've babbled on enough, so for now I leave you with the ADD themesong that I and a friend decided we needed at one point.

"We are the kids with ADD, scattered and unfocused are we, and... HEY A SQUIRREL!" :lol:

[Tempestinateapot]

So, IMO, when it becomes a matter of the individual not being able to get anything done, probably keeping others from getting anything done, and sometimes even becoming a safety issueHey, you just described my son! :lol: