This has probably been discussed several times

[shaitanx]

However, I dont totally understand Astral Projection, nor am I totally convinced. I'm 14 years old. My father told me about it when I was about 10, but he just briefly talked about it, and how he's done it. Sure, I believed him, I was ten, he was my dad, why would he lie? Then, last night, my friend was talking to me about it. He's 17 and he claims to have done it several times. He tells me all about it, gives me several links, and I myself found some interesting eBooks on it. EVERYTHING I have read, just seems like a normal dream to me..

I mean, you can dream your in your friends dream, you can dream your in another state, another universe, you can dream your flying, you can dream your talking to dead relatives, you can dream your in another universe... You can dream just about anything. No, you can dream anything.

So, maybe I dont understand, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right?

Could Astral Projection just be dreaming? I dont see how its scientifically possible for your soul to leave your body. And this silver chord business seems strange. Seems like something from The Matrix or the Sci-Fi channel.

Please convince me otherwise,
nick =]

[wstein]

An often asked question. There is no 'proof' that will convince you. If you look, there are many posts asking whether they had a dream or an OBE (in some cases both) - try the search function. Knowledgeable people have tried to answer these questions.

In my experience they are different and have different properties. With some experience with each, you will begin to notice the differences. What exactly those differences are is not entirely agreed upon.

[shaitanx]

Hm..

Could for example, I ask my friend to tape something to his window, such as a sign he wrote, and then I [while astral projecting] fly to his house, read it, and then tell him the next day what it says? Would that work, or would I not see the sign, or would something else conflict this?

Or, could two people astral projecting speak to each other, and then the next day discuss [in real life] what they were talking about, and then if they both agree on what they were saying, then, it's real?

[shaitanx]

Sorry for the double post, but, I just.. I think I'm losing my mind.

Just now, as I was lying down to go to sleep, I figured, hey, why not try an OBE. [I've never tried before, and I wasnt sure what to do].

As I understand, you must lie down, relax yourself, clear all thoughts from your head, and you should feel a vibration. Then, you lift yourself using one of many methods [the rope for example] and you're free.

That's probably incorrect, but, that's what I tried.

So, I'm lying here, total darkness, except for the little light coming from my window. 4:00 am. I'm relaxed, I have no thoughts in my head.. This took me about 10 minutes.

Then, I start feeling these weird vibrations around my eyes, then progressing quickly throughout my entire body. I become frightened. I think I was just imagining them, as it is unlikely for me to successfully OBE on my first attempt. However, I was convinced I could OBE at this time. I started trying to lift myself, then I chicked out and opened my eyes and thrusted my hands around. [As I heard if you move, you instantly return to your body]. I was so scared. I didnt know what to do, I turned my light on, and I just sat there, scared out of my mind. I dont know why I chickened out...

Could those vibrations have actually happened?
Did I imagine them?
or Maybe I was just falling asleep..

Any ideas?

PS. even now I'm shaking

[journyman161]

I'd say check it out... the sign thing sounds good or you could just pay a visit astrally & then go check out what you 'saw' & see if it corresponds.

I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with checking what's happening objectively & it will build confidence in what's going on when you get things right.

*grins* Of course then you have the problem of maybe you dreamed a true dream...?

EDIT: I answered the post before...

Don't be scared. But next time, try protecting yourself before starting so you feel safer - then realise no matter what, you can always 'snap' back into your body if anything happens that feels too weird for you. Have a look here (http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=10) for ways to protect yourself

[shaitanx]

But then, if its not real and your just dreaming, whats the point of any of this?

I understand its fun, and yes, that is a good reason to do this, but I'd much rather it be real and it be happening. =P

However, I'd still do it.

Please reply to my previous post [that i double posted]

[journyman161]

Well, you ain't never gonna no if you don't have a go. If you try several things & nothing proves out then you can move on to other things in your life.

But you might just discover some truths that change your life or ways to view things that make more sense than the nutty world we've been presented with.

There are no guarantees - you may try things & fail & still there is something really there & you missed it; or you could try & find things but the explanation is something a bit different to what you are currently wishing for.

Or rather there is one guaranteee - if you try nothing you will never be disappointed - until the time comes to leave this life & you realise you missed it all.

Summon your courage, prepare as best you can, & give it a shot.

[shaitanx]

I will tryy, I just want somebody to guide me through it, someone with firsthand experience, such as my father.

Do you think the vibrations were those of a OBE?

Still need replies to my insanity post.

=p

I was so unbelievably scared about half an hour ago.

[journyman161]

Nah... you're too worried to be losing your mind. That's a sure sign of sanity.

There are no hard & fast rules here - you certainly could have an OBE first time. The vibrations could easily have been imagined but I think it's unlikely - you describe them quite clearly & not in any vague way.

The fear is probably because we grow attached to our bodies - if it was an easy thing to leave them lots of people would do it; I think it's likely that when we don this body of mass we 'agree' to stay & the fear would seem a good way to ensure we don't just abandon things at a slight excuse.

Try it again; set yourself an easy target & maybe even a time limit to return. Then as you grow in confidence start setting tasks to show you whether or not you are seeing the real world when out & about.

Do some more reading; there are different levels out there, some of which mimic the real world (so you might not see the note even if you go to the friend's bedroom) & some of which are created by the astral self & may not correspond to reality at all. Learn as much as you can about it all - it will decrease your fears.

[shaitanx]

Thanks, and I suppose I am sane [for now].

Also, I read before that if you make any movement on your physical body, you'll snap back to it.

What if you have a friend standing by you at all times, and after a certain time, just sorta nudge you or move your arm a little, so you wake up.. Would that work?

Seems ridiculous, but, lol.

[journyman161]

I think it would have to be someone you trust very much - you could have problems relaxing enough otherwise - & if you had them 'timed' to come 'wake' you you run the risk of laying there 'expecting' the entrance.

You could set an alarm clock or simply tell yourself how long you want to try it for.

[shaitanx]

Not sure what you mean.. I run the risk of lying there "expecting" the entrance.

Which entrance is that? Do you mean I'm waiting for my friend ot come and wake me?

Wouldnt it be the same with the alarm clock?

[journyman161]

Yes I meant the entrance of your friend. And I don't know why but I have the feeling that having another person around with a connection to you would be more of a distraction than an alarm.

But I think best of all would be simply 'setting' yourself to return in a given time - less possible trauma than a sudden blaring of an alarm or contact from another person.

Just an opinion/feeling - you really should speak to someone with more experience in these things than me.

[CFTraveler]

Hi Shaitanx. I'll try my best to answer some of your questions.

However, I dont totally understand Astral Projection, nor am I totally convinced. I'm 14 years old. My father told me about it when I was about 10, but he just briefly talked about it, and how he's done it. Sure, I believed him, I was ten, he was my dad, why would he lie? Then, last night, my friend was talking to me about it. He's 17 and he claims to have done it several times. He tells me all about it, gives me several links, and I myself found some interesting eBooks on it. EVERYTHING I have read, just seems like a normal dream to me.. If you read Robert's Treatise on astral projection: http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=65
he goes on to explain how your dreaming mind and your consciousness help to shape your experience. The energy is there (objectively) for you to perceive, but your subconscious have a hand in interpreting it. But sometimes you'll get validation. You just have to work on attaining and sustaining lucidity.



So, maybe I dont understand, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right? Maybe you're both. :)


Could Astral Projection just be dreaming? I dont see how its scientifically possible for your soul to leave your body. And this silver chord business seems strange. Seems like something from The Matrix or the Sci-Fi channel. Once again, in astral projection, you project your consciousness, not your soul. Your point of view is what 'moves' or changes focus. But your spirit/soul is still part of your body. That doesn't change. The treatise goes into more detail. And the silver cord is something that not everyone sees, so I do believe it may be the way the subconscious reassures itself that you're not dying. In other words, it may be an artifact. But then again, different people have different theories of perception, and I respect those who have seen it and believe in it's objectivity.

Please convince me otherwise,
nick =] Why do you need convincing? It's an experience that only you can prove to yourself.

I will tryy, I just want somebody to guide me through it, someone with firsthand experience, such as my father.
Here a few basics for you to tailor to your needs:
1)Learn to maintain lucidity in dreams. This is for memory enhancement. That way you'll learn to remember your projections. You can use affirmations,& reality checks. If you are already a lucid dreamer you have the advantage.
2) Learn to meditate, to relax your body and achieve trance. There are many methods to use, work with whatever you like.
3)Do energy work. Here's a link for NEW. : http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=6
this will help you with control, lucidity and length of projection. It's also good for your health. It can be used for meditation purposes.
4) Once you can reach trance and are feeling projection symptoms. These boards are full of exit strategies.

I have a projection journal in the OBE section- in it you can see what different things I've done in a case-by case basis, for the past year and a half (more or less).
Good luck.

[shaitanx]

If Astral Projection has so many benefits, what are the cons?

What are the negatives of OBE's?

If it's so great, why isnt it taught in school?

[CFTraveler]

If Astral Projection has so many benefits, what are the cons?

What are the negatives of OBE's?

If it's so great, why isnt it taught in school?
What is the point of your questions?
That's like asking me- You like to draw? What is the point of drawing? Why isn't everyone an artist? If you can watch tv, why do we have to read?
Are you asking questions because you're curious, and/or interested?
Or is there another motive?

[Palehorse Redivivus]

If it's so great, why isnt it taught in school?
What is the point of your questions?

I agree with CFT's assessment but this question did stick out. The public school system we know and love was designed over a century ago with the industrial revolution in mind -- i.e. designed to produce good factory workers, citizens and consumers who know how to do what they're told and not question authority. With any "thinking outside the box" so actively discouraged, traveling outside one's body can't be expected to fare much better, right? APing is more contrary to the way society today runs than conducive to it, so as such you probably won't ever see tax dollars being spent to teach the average person how to do it.

I don't necessarily have a problem with that, though, for the same reason I'd really prefer the government stay out of private spirituality in pretty much every other way. As subjective as the astral plane is, it kind of unnerves me to think what a government sponsored AP curriculum would be like, or what results it would produce. :shock: There are also ethical questions involved in forcing people to take classes to learn a practice that many people are religiously opposed to (though I suppose an elective in the higher grades or college would solve that problem). In this age of the internet, books and seminars, people already have plenty of ways to learn about AP should they so choose; we should stick with those IMO.

[Plumes.Gris]

I wouldn't take my word for it, but I suppose the negative aspects to OBE's is that along with the training to attain it, you become more aware of things you weren't before...like negs or negative entities...in which case, you also risk of becoming a target (or so I think).

You know it's funny that you mention OBE's being taught in school because I've been given a James Redfield book for x-mas...which in all of them, he goes on to explain how spirituality is a matter of evolution which everyone will eventually attain. I'm not explaining it properly of course, but it's a simple statement on his books. I'm not very keen on spreading the word on new age books, but ironically enough, his books came to me through various coincidences which is another subject of his books. (btw, if you get interested enough...don't think watching the movie "The Celestine Prophecy" is a good short cut...it was very disapointing)
Anyway, all this to say that perhaps the day will come that OBE's are welcomed into schools...but mostly, I agree with Palehorse Redivivus

shaitanx, I was smiling when I read what happened when you tried to OBE. It's almost exactly what happened to me the first time. I was in bed, pumped up from being around a bunch of spiritually energetic people that day. I thought, "I could go out of my body if I wanted to". My vibrations were like a jack hammer was stuck to my back, and I had roaring like a freight train in my ears. Lifted out, freaked, and slammed back into my body. Yes, it was real.

If you keep at it, and actually do manage to stay out of your body for awhile, you'll know it's different from a dream. The descriptions of experiences can sound like dreams, but when it happens, HELLO! You'll definitely know. I've never had any dream that felt that way. :D

Downsides? Yes, you can freak yourself out. Learn all you can about it, learn some protection, and BELIEVE you will be fine. You will. Fear is a mighty emotion, and it can be magnified in the astral. So, learn not to fear. Educate yourself on what to expect. Read Robert's tutorials, there's a lot of info there.

About trying to verify if your experience is real...that gets complicated. If you can manage to stay in the Real Time Zone, it's possible. That takes a lot of control and a lot of practice. Most people end up in the astral due to lack of control, which can be a weird and goofy copy of the real world. It's what Robert calls the "Alice in Wonderland effect". So, in your room, a door may appear where there was none. Furniture that is not normally there can appear. Trying to read something is difficult. Anything you can imagine, you can create with your thoughts in the astral. So, if you are afraid, you can create fearful things. Are they real? Well, are your thoughts real? They are as real as your thoughts. I don't personally think that you risk becoming a target to negative entities by OBE'ing. I haven't had any problems since I got over the fear factor. But, I did create some fearful things in the beginning. When I learned to laugh at them, they go away. Everybody's experiences and even beliefs are different. So, you just have to figure out your own.

[shaitanx]

LOL!

I tried it again last night, and it failed. I didnt feel any vibrations or anything. Well, I might have, but just a little. I couldnt't tell if they were or just, I imagined them. I tried pulling myself up but nothing happened.

[U-Mos]

sence when can people dream those kind of things XP dreams tend to not do those kind of things

the major difference is that your fully conscious

[U-Mos]

If Astral Projection has so many benefits, what are the cons?

What are the negatives of OBE's?

If it's so great, why isnt it taught in school?

there are very little danger as far as i know (im newish) if you know what your doing the worse thing that can happen to you is getting scared out of your mind by nothing. but i herd a few stories about stupid people one about a satanic ritual sumening a demon and she became hunted and some one being careless and having a neg attachment

just stay away form shaman stuff and you'll be fine

and its not thought in school because theres very little scientific study into the area and cause its hard to get a computer to calculate the yep its real aspect that will prove it no one will believe a piratical stranger

[rep]

There are many….MANY, basic spiritual principles that are not taught in school that would take precedence way before AP.

[Athelstone]

EVERYTHING I have read, just seems like a normal dream to me..
The key difference between dreams and Out of Body experiences is the vividness. That is to say, how much conscious control you have: how real they feel. For example, if you recall a dream you had last night, for most people, your recall will have an illusory quality. You probably won't be able to remember all of the details of the dream for example (although dream recall can be improved with training).

Now, an Out of Body experience on the other hand is a very vivid experience. It feels as real as your current waking consciousness. It feels as real as the experience you are having now as you read these words. In short, much more vivid than a dream.

It is common knowledge in OBE literature that a dream is basically an unconscious Out of Body experience. When you dream, you are actually having an Out of Body experience - but you're unconscious. That is to say, your conscious mind is not in control. That is why most people cannot control what they see in dreams: for whatever reason, human beings have evolved in a manner that allows the subconscious mind to take control doing sleep. If however, you can master the ability to retain conscious control of your mind during sleep, then you are on your way towards having Out of Body experiences.

Listen to this person recall an OBE and perhaps you will get a feeling of how real an experience it is. If you want to truly determine for yourself whether OBEs are real, then some personal investigation and a desire to experience it for yourself will obviously be necessary, as some people here have advised.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=O6zHbeMhuRA

PS: By the way, well done on experiencing the vibrations, these are a very good sign of success.

PSS: Oh, and don't get too impatient. I've been practicing on and off for about 5 years, and I've only had a handful of VERY short Astral experiences of any note. Patience is a pre-requisite for this sort of thing.

[CFTraveler]

Or, maybe that's what we're doing when we go OBE. The RTZ could be the 'closest' of those membranes to ours, and the higher astral could be the 'most different'.
:D

[journyman161]

There would seem to be a discrepancy between what is being spoken of by those like Brian Greene & the astral realms. While it would be nice to get a physics-type explanation that would help bring OBE & AP into the mainstream, I doubt this is it.

The 'alternate' universes being spoken of would be more like cosmoi at a similar level to our own, albeit with different laws, or maybe the same laws - we don't know yet. These could be different combinations of the dimensions or they could be created in an ongoing process as Branes collide & create more universes.

The Astral realms seem to be more to do with a progressive set of Beingness, where each is a step higher in frequency or vibration. Where to move from one level to another is to move 'higher' in potential or closer to the Source.

This kind of progression is NOT implied by the scenarios involved in making the math work out. The universes from this may be interlinks of a set number of dimensions from a larger 'Set' available, but the math is talking about subsets about the same as our own.

So there are actually at least 3 different scenarios to think about...

1. A multiverse consisting of many varying universes made up of possibly 10 or 11 dimensions, growing & changing & maybe separated by Time.

2. A complex of universes where our 3D cosmos is only one variety & there could be 4D, 5D, 6D, etc universes out there - and our 3D could be a sub-verse of a 4D, which is a sub-verse of a 5D etc - or they could all be individual realms

3. A multiverse where realms are separated by vibration or density, so our 3D is solid, but as the vibration rises, the density lessens & beings become closer to being Beings of Light & closer to the Source or ALL.

There are other possibilities & it is also possible all of these are present at the same time (if you'll pardon the time pun *grins*)

For example, our 'Source' could be a Being of 11 Dimensions, which has created a hierarchy of realms of 3D, 4D, 5D etc in order to gain experience & knowledge of Self. The other Multiverses could be other 'Sources' also undertaking a journey of experience & self-discovery, with all of them growing towards a melding or meeting in some unimaginable (to me) confluence once all Life achieves satori or whatever...

[journyman161]

Be wary of what the physicists say. Their idea that gravity is doing it is based on the fact that gravity is very much weaker than the other basic forces. Yet they cannot tell you even what makes up the forces at all - electricity for example is still a mystery.

I am very much a 'science' person but you have to realise they have a tendency to present their info as solid when in fact it is 'best theory' level of certainty. Another physics person will understand the uncertainty involved when a scientist makes a statement, but those without a solid science background hear Certainty not Uncertainty.

For example, physicists theorise about the importance of gravity & talk about using gravity waves to communicate with other realms - but so far, nobody has detected, let alone produced, a gravity wave. Ed Leedskalnin said there is no such thing as gravity & unlike the theorists, he actually used his ideas of how things are to move huge blocks of stone around in ways nobody else can duplicate.

[journyman161]

We may be talking at cross purpose here. While the astral is available once you leave your 'container' there is no certainty at all that what you're accessing is what the physicists are speaking about.

And when the say gravity is holding us to Branes, they are trying to compensate for the fact that their explanations of gravity fall way short of reality. It is too weak on the macro scale & too strong on the quantum level. So they theorise that maybe gravity is 'spread' across 'all' the dimensions.

Yet there is some evidence that gravity is not real - Einstein says it isn't a force at all but a result of the structure of the space-time continuum. Leedskalnin says everything is Magnetism & somehow knew enough to actually make use of the phenomena we call gravity.

So trying to apply what they think of gravity & alternate universes to things astral is probably not a good idea - it will lead to misleading thoughts & views & most likely not lead to anything usable as far as OBE & AP are concerned.

I'm only trying to show that the Astral 'levels' are most likely nothing to do with what string theory & quantum theory are talking about.

[CFTraveler]

Speaking of Ed Leeskalnin I was just at the Coral Castle just a few months ago. I'd been there before but with an "ooh ahh" mentality. Let's just say that when I read about his life there, in his house, I wasn't that impressed.
As to what the astral is It's really anybody's guess. We tend to form theories about it but it's all they are. I favor the "we go quantum" and explore the gaps in between particle collapse when we go 'out'- based on my own romantic notion of what it's about. But I wouldn't go rejecting any theories on the basis of what I think 'theories of levels of being' are, because we don't know if the postulated branes exist or even if they do, how they manifest, even if the word 'manifestation' applies. I've heard about 11 dimensions, some curved so that photons can't travel out of them, and they're pinning the 'connection' on gravity as the possible interactiveness between hypothetical branes on the basis of it having to fit somewhere to create a unified theory.
So really, I don't believe or disbelieve anything based on what they know or don't know, I rather take on the position of an amused observer, and let the thinkers think.
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/verkleidung/costumed-smiley-066.gif