Isn't all this Kundalini stuff overvalued?

[Korpo]

I just wondered - what, beyond being "the ultimate bio-energy phenomenon" as I remember Robert writing - is so useful or nice about Kundalini?

I read through the collected Kundalini posts that were put together as a PDF. What I can extract is:
* A strong Kundalini spike can kill you.
* Kundalini awakening can unbalance a person physically, emotionally and mentally.
* Having raised Kundalini once doesn't make the phenomenon persist, just easier to attend.
* Having raised Kundalini once or several times is not enlightenment, but being able to have it raised continually may somehow be related to a state of enlightenment or not.
* Having raised Kundalini has strengthened Robert's energy system and transformed it, but his OBE capability has not changed to at will/for any length, IIRC.

Of course I cannot speak from personal experience, but when I remember what I read up until now from different traditions about bio-energy/Chi, what you may call it, this sounds not only unsafe but outright dangerous.

E.g., Bruce Frantzis, Taoist Western teacher strongly advises against too strong upward Chi movement at all, especially beyond the capability of the practitioner to sink Chi. I've yet to read about a phenomenon capable to balance out Kundalini, which seems more like you can only channel it, but not handle it.

Robert himself advises against filling the middle and upper Tantiens directly, but advises to let the lower Tantien overflow to the others (which there seem to be a lot of not-exactly-agreeing opinions from Taoist and Buddhist Chi/Nei Gung authors). He mentions the risk of unbalancing. Isn't Kundalini, with its tremendous impact on the energy system then purest Russian Roulette in that regard, with the barrel loaded except for one bullet?

So, you can trigger it accidentally, when you don't practice safe and grounded techniques. You can damage yourself beyond repair and die. There's next to no one you can trust about this because people seem to tell you they awakened their Kundalini all the time when they haven't (Robert warns himself about this). Without a "guru" to watch over you cannot be sure to be properly prepared when it comes.

Somehow this seems to me some sort of extreme sports for esoteric people. Dangerous, something you can boast about, and not a very feasible way to enlightenment. A shortcut so dangerous it's worth the long path of more reincarnations. What evil and megalomania may be at the end of the paths of those who fail? Who can tell? Even practising stuff like White Crane Kung Fu or Taoist Fire practises can seriously unbalance people, and they are surely not that forceful as Kundalini is...

It's a bit worrying that Robert considers writing a book about this. It's nice to educate people. But it's like handing out loaded guns to children and then leaving them alone after a short lecture. It's simply not okay to do so. I don't know whether Robert still plans to do so.

[Krystal]

I think I read that Robert is moving forward on his book.

Now you're absolutely correct in your information. For someone that' not ready for Kundalini - it can be very dangerous. It's not a cute little toy or a 'must attain' to be on the 'spiritual badge list' - as some seem to just be trying to do everything to advance themselves spiritually anyway they can.

Personally I've been drawn to so many different topics, techniques, etc. That it's hard for me to tell people not to learn whatever they're drawn to. But I learned later that I'd already experienced my Kundalini rising in the past and this happened to me naturally and safely. I was not working on the Kundalini to make it rise when I was not ready.

From experience I can tell you that it's a great and sometimes overwhelming experience. The closest I can describe it, is that it felt like "touching God" when I get in that rapture.

But my Kundalini does not stay risen. I am not ready for that constant energy surge.

So I agree that it's very important for people to be VERY careful in what they're getting into. But I don't want to discourage others because I learned by seeking knowledge that I was already experiencing the Kundalini rising. It is worth attaining if you're ready.

I hope that Robert is proceeding with this book if he has found techniques to help a beginner to safely raise the Kundalini or to help a beginner know if they are proceeding on what is for them, forbidden ground at this time.

I empathized with your concern about people getting dangerous tools in their hands and harming themselves unnecessarily.

[Korpo]

Krystal, somehow you are very ambiguuous about this. :)

Thousands of years practices have been kept secret, for two reasons:
1) The power they give you (if power is what you care about)
2) The danger they can put you in.

A lot of energy practices, martial arts and meditations can put you in serious trouble if you're oversensitive in that exact area, or even if not.

White Crane Kung Fu, Sexual Chi Gung, Kundalini Yoga, even the Small Heavenly Orbit can leave you with harm that's hard to fix where we Westerners live. A lot of people drawn to it are not necessarily the same crowd that can take it without too much risk. Delusions of power, the look for the shortcut, people easily fool themselves. Especially about topics Kundalini.

Sometimes when browsing the topics lists in these forums it seems like every energy fart or every release of a blockage or even glimpse of bliss and rapture is Kundalini, or isn't it? People worry all the time about Kundalini... :roll:

These are the people who will buy the book. At least they will, too. That's a fact. That's all I want to say. :)

[Korpo]

P.S.: I find it perfectly okay if Bruce wants to share his knowledge about Kundalini with others. As a teacher that supervises his students this could be really great - Kundalini Yoga from a first-hand source of information without all the mysterious and mythical baggage you cannot really know whether it is deep or nonsense. Hands-down approach, like other stuff from Robert. But I recommend supervised training, to ensure safety of the practitioners. If Robert is as great a teacher as an author that would be beyond great. :)

I don't know whether a book is the right medium for this? :?

[Aunt Clair]

Perhaps like so many other areas of metaphysical research skeptics will
* not believe until they do it themselves ,
* preach the dangers and use these as an excuse to not pathwork and to discourage others from pathworkng also
* move on and find something else to not believe in .

Kundalini rises and falls through multiple subsequent flames to enrich the life of the aspirant . It increases all forms of clairience , projection at will , manifestation ,energy body light quotient . It helps us to attain the realms , to meet with the master teaching spirits , to help heal ourselves and each other and this planet .

My 8 year old son has raised many flames without any harm .
So has my 18 year old daughter Debbie .
Daniel 19 yo alchemical peer .
My 23 yr old peer Andrew
my best mate Jodie aged 34 years old
Linda aged 43 ??
Maggie aged 46 yo
Bill Van de Berg holding at 68 years old
Tom Curran holding at 72 years old

and online
Sorlac
Cripi
Cloak
Tom
Fendico
Fairy
Talamasca

I could list more . Of l these people listed , none has been harmed by kundalini .It has caused some pain and nausea but its rewards far exceed those symptoms .

I had a bad experience twice with Kundalini myself but I have a damaged back , Multiple Sclerosis and I'm on a wait list for spinal surgery .

I do disagree with the myth of waiting until you are 40 . I feel that many young people are experiencing kundalini rising and falling spontaneously and without effort or harm .

I feel that danger exists rarely . I feel it would be expected to occur in those with mental illness , severe energy body blockages , those with physical damage to the spine , those that are elderly or infirm . I feel that danger increases with age .

[Aunt Clair]

I made an error and double posted . I cannot delete it so I will post something else in this space , lol .

Kundalini did cause an NDE in me on the two occasions I mentioned but these both occurred after I already had severe spinal damage and was over 50 years old . I do believe that kundalini can cause trouble to the mentally unstable and to the physically infirm . But I do not believe that waiting until you are 40 will help at all . I think it compounds griefs because the body becomes less flexible and more decrepit as it ages . The energy body can continue to become stronger over time but the physical body decays . I also feel in my heart of hearts that the young are experiencing kundalini flames and will continue to do so at an unprecedented rate globally and that they could use information that is timely and helpful . I feel we need to learn to embrace our spirituality and that some of our progressive development occurs spontaneously so we need to ease into it and enjoy it rather than dreading it . We cannot prevent puberty or old age , we should not seek to fear or prevent kundalini . It is our natural source of spiritual enlightenment and global spiritual evolution .

[xxhealinghandxx]

I too would also like to know where that free pdf document is.

So... kundalini can be developed to the point of a constant energy surge? I see this guy at school and he has black hair dyed slightly with blonde in some places and he's always walking really, really, fast , he has a weird look on his face and seems to be walking on air as he walks in a staggering fast manner. It'd hard to explain, it's like he's trying to outrun someone descretely like they were trying to kill him. I was wondering if he he had a constant kundalini uprising?

That's kind of a stupid question but I just wanted to tie it in with the pdf document, because I didn't see at first Aunt Clair's bold lettering and I was kinda curious about the constant energy surge :P.

[Tom]

Somewhere on my computer at home I have a copy of that pdf file. I'll try to find it if you tell me where to send it.

Robert says in his workshops that Kundalini rises and falls, and does not stay risen. It is a progression. It does not bring instant enlightenment, but has many benefits (which Aunt Clair detailed). Robert teaches raising Kundalini in his workshops. It is typical of him to give warnings and possibilities, and he always states that one should be a very balanced person to attempt this. He has many books planned at the moment. His next one out in 2007 will be about energy work and NEW. I'm not sure if he has included Kundalini in that book or not. Rest assured that when he does write about it, he will responsibly detail reasons for raising and warnings. People are going to try it no matter what (it's all over the internet), so my feeling is that Robert is one of the best authors around to make it understandable and demonstrate how to do it safely.

[Korpo]

This was a PDF collection of posts made by Robert Bruce about his Kundalini experiences, collected on this site. Robert details a very intensive and almost deadly Kundalini experience. His accounts do not seem it to be a phenomenon that comes lightly to people.

No offense, but I take all forum postings saying stuff like "It's easy, danger is rare" with more than a grain of salt.

I've read published books, especially hailed on the US market, about Buddhist sitting meditation, applied their hints straight away, only the most simple methods - breath counting, nostril awareness, and then head a week of high blood pressure and nosebleeds afterwards after a certain amount of practising.

All books say: It's easy, cannot harm you, it's great, can decrease high blood pressure, and gave no warnings, no countermeasures for my case. I found no clues on the web.

By careful cross-reading I found Taoist techniques listing the reason, fixing and curing it, and now try to develop a meditation practice that does not allow this to occur.

With such a highly controversial topic as Kundalini where people disagree a lot, and a lot of people claim to have awoken it, or raised it, or whatever, I can only repeat what I extracted above. Robert's posts speak a totally different language.

IMO, the old parable of two men building houses applies here. One built their house on sand while the other went down to the bedrock and built on a strong foundation. When the storms and floods came, the house that was built on sand fell while the house built on a strong foundation withstood the floods.

To me, this wisdom can be applied to spiritual growth. One can withstand K rising if one has taken the time to do the inner work and foundation building necessary to withstand this awesome event.

Robert exercises due care in stressing the importance of inner work, healing of past trauma, etc. before one attempts to raise thier K, which, imo, is a lot more than a lot of folks do out there.

[Tom]

Without Kundalini being active in some way or another, it isn't possible to gain enlightenment. It blocks sufficient energy, when dormant, from entering the shushumna nadi.

Without Kundalini being active in some way or another, it isn't possible to gain enlightenment. It blocks sufficient energy, when dormant, from entering the shushumna nadi.

I understood there is a difference between having your K awakened and actually raising it. I understood that raising it is a powerful event, but that one can achieve some enlightenment when it has been awakened.


G'day!

I stand by my earlier warning, but with some clarifications.

Apart from my own experience in this area, I have encountered many people in various stages of kundalini awakening. Even the strongest and most stable and well prepared encounter major problems. Those without this generally develop a range of psychological and mental and physical problems. There is a lot of information available on these problems to be found on the net.

There is a big difference between awakening kundalini and raising kundalini (Uraeus Serpent of Fire). My earlier warnings specifically relate to the latter, eg, the heavier energy work to fully activate the energy body and achieve the highest level of consciousness and direct contact with the divine etc, etc.

Kundalini is dormant in everyone. Its awakening can be triggered by spiritual or devotional work, and sometimes by spiritual/intellectual work.

Kundalini is the Eastern term for this energy. But this is not just related to Eastern cultures and spiritual practices. It is universal.

Kundalini is an evolutionary energy. Once awakened, it begins a transformational process. This cannot be stopped once it begins. How long it takes and how far it will evolve persons depends on the individuals concerned.

The early awakening kundalini is a major event, but most people can usually deal with this without too much difficulty.

But raising kundalini (Uraeus Serpent of Fire) is to be approached with extreme caution. This event fully activates all chakras, removes all natural protection from the chakras and energy body, and exposes the energy body to the greater reality. This can be a shocking experience that, if unprepared, could cause physical death through shock. After this, the energy body and mind are wide open to everything. The onslaught of impressions and energies that come with this can cause persons to become mentally unstable. This also opens one up to all spirit influences, positive and negative and all the range between.

To approach this, it is obviously wise to have some idea of what one is doing and to prepare oneself well. This is sensible, but many people tend to skip the preparation and jump straight into the higher work, just to see what happens. There is no way one can account for this type of madness. This is like a person with no experience with sky diving grabbing a parachute and jumping out of a plane at 10,000ft and working it all out on the way down; eg, very high risk. This is why kundalini is usually only taught in person, through a strong teacher student relationship.

So, to teach this, some duty of care is obviously involved. The basics of spiritual development must be learned and practiced first. These include self observation, mind control, ego control, willpower training, inner balancing, inner cleansing, physical preparation, etc, etc, to develop a harmonious and balanced spiritual approach. With this kind of preparation, the risks are greatly reduced.

For those who survive the awakening and or raising process intact, varying levels of creativity, genius, psychic abilities (enlightenment or illumination) arise naturally.

The enlightenment process is directly related to kundalini awakening. But this does not happen in an instant. It is a staggered process, one bit at a time. One may have moments of full abstract God consciousness where one knows and perceives 'everything' in the abstract. But after such a peak experience, one reverts back to normal consciousness.

I hope you can see my points here. So many people are desperate for real spiritual progress, and they want this right now, eg, a quick and easy way to enlightenment. They don't want to spend thousands of hours in training. They want it right now. This ego based approach obviously causes a problem, as the risk level for students is directly proportional to their preparation.

For all that, awakening kundalini should not be feared. This is the brightest hope for humanity. The more enlightened people there are, the better the world will become in a spiritual sense.

Robert Bruce

The above quote was in response to my question about whether or not he still stands by his strong warnings of raising K.

viewtopic.php?t=2630&highlight=kundalini (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=2630&highlight=kundalini)

[star]

I possibly hav some kundalini development, its just finding out how to continue and keep it moving. I'm trying to meditate where I just listen to my breathing. Going into a deep state, so Kundalini can work on its own with minimul pushing from me.

[Korpo]

So - awakening dormant Kundalini = attainable by average people with a good strong practice and beneficial, and raising Kundalini = strong shock to the system?

It's a bit confusing. I guess Robert meant he raised Kundalini through all Chakras in one go, and the results were very intense and nearly deadly. This is what I'm relating to. Is this what he will teach in his new book, or "only" Kundalini awakening? With proper grounding? Or what?

[CFTraveler]

Is this what he will teach in his new book, or "only" Kundalini awakening? With proper grounding? Or what?
I guess at this point you'll either have to ask him directly, or wait for the book.

Robert raised Kundalini from root to crown in one sitting in his 20's, and it almost killed him, if I remember the story right. I believe he said he had an NDE. I have no idea what or when or if he will write about how to raise Kundalini in a book, but it would seem that someone who had that dramatic of an experience would also teach caution. Robert goes by his inner guidance, so you can worry yourself to death over what he "might" do or write, but he's going to do what he's led to do.

[Wolf_Thor]

Nothing is ever explained, they seem to be single mindedly focused on a goal, not only do I not know what the goal is, or why things happen the way they do.

I get no direct guidance. Where is the map? I want a map! WTF is the plan? WTF is the goal?

All I get is a check up.

All I know is, there is a time coming when they will be speaking to me much more frequently and directly. But even when that time gets here, will they still be as secretitive?

Maybe they have their reasons, but the trust is eroded. Would it be so very difficult for them to give me some kind of reassurance?

</rant>

Who gets a map? I know I sure as hell didn't.

[sash]

Leyla, worrying about it tends to make it worse, Kundalini appears to most easily rise in the path of least resistance, so if you just go with the flow and trust your instincts you will be fine. I wouldn't force it, but if you feel it coming I wouldn't resist it either -- just let it be as it is.
Your guides may not be giving you a lot of information because they might think you are equipped well enough and don't need as much guidance as you think you do.

[CFTraveler]

If you are seeing serpents at your feet that tells me that you are being warned that it's coming. The fact that you see them at your feet would make me think that they're telling you to start grounding a lot.
If it's a done deal it sounds like some energy work with emphasis on grounding is the order of the day.
It's just what I get, anyway.

If you are seeing serpents at your feet that tells me that you are being warned that it's coming. The fact that you see them at your feet would make me think that they're telling you to start grounding a lot.
If it's a done deal it sounds like some energy work with emphasis on grounding is the order of the day.
It's just what I get, anyway.

CF's right, intense grounding and lots of it will help a great deal.

Leyla, did it ever occur to you that your guides are you (your Higher Self) in another form? And, that everything is going according to the plan you and your Higher Self mapped out? What's the old saying?...Everything you resist will persist. :D

Maybe this will give you some encouragement and joy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyzIKDVxw3Y

I believe this is the website that Robert recommends regarding Kundalini:
http://swamij.com/kundalini-awakening-3.htm

You'll be fine, don't worry!!! Just take it as it comes and ground, ground, ground if it gets overwhelming. Have you read PainterHypnoGirl's Kundalini Log? You might find it helpful. :)

viewtopic.php?t=3396 (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=3396)

Here's a thread that discusses descending kundalini (I have no personal experience of this at all, just relaying what I have read) :

viewtopic.php?t=3468 (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=3468)

The pop could have been the release of an attachment? I've heard pops related to neg clearing (shocking too to hear a physical sound related with something so non-physical, if that makes any sense).

[Aunt Clair]

Somewhere on my computer at home I have a copy of that pdf file. I'll try to find it if you tell me where to send it.
I'd like a copy Tom, or others ,
auntclair@msn.com
Thanks !

Okay, can anyone answer me this?
... I was meditating like usual, and got this big blast of energy through my crown chakra like I'd been hit with a lightning bolt. It threw me out of my body and into a dark rolling blackness. I floated there awhile before coming back.What was that? I know it's not kundalini because there was nothing coming from the bottom of my spine. But I was wondering if there's a name for it. Maybe it would tell me what "stage" I'm in- and how far I have to go before this kundalini stuff starts happening.
Oh, and last night while meditating, I got a clear "pop" around my throat chakra. What was that? I just assumed I was clearing an opening in that area.

Imho the first event sounds like the Giant Stage wherein the magician is thrown forcibly out of the crown after a kundlini irse . Kundalini does not always rise from the male kanda in the Earth stone known as the Throne of God . It also descends from the female kanda in the Moon stone known as the Crown of the Goddess . It erupts also from the heart kanda in the Sun Stone . Popping noises at the throat do occur as the throat stone emerges . When the human is born they tend to have only 3 stones on the spine . But the magician will soon develop more stones which clustre and turn about the spine in a twisting pattern resembling the double helix .

There is an aqua stone which causes a waterfall of energy to fall from the new aqua stone . This stone pops open into a reverse flow and from there forms 8 olive sized centres on a belt around the stone which becomes the size of a small basketball . The chakras run thru the stones superceding them . The chakral spinal column remains important as a conduit to feed energy into the stones which enervate , imbibe and engorge the human energy body .

[Tom]

http://www.box.net/public/6g3rtve1jb

It is a link to the file on my free http://www.box.net account. They let me store up to 1 GB for free, but the individual files hae to be under 10 MB unless I pay. :)

[CFTraveler]

Leyla wrote:
I am not happy about having to get off the sodas and junk food. I'm going to be like a crack-head going through withdrawls. :lol: :lol: . I hear you. Im having a b. of a time just getting off Pepsi (my crack) and substituting it for green tea. I like green tea, but still.... :cry: WAAAH!

[enoch]

What's a kundalini?

[CFTraveler]

What's a kundalini?

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_18616 ... alini.html (http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861624472/kundalini.html)

http://kundalini-support.com/ On the right hand side of this website there is a concise definition.

[lightworker]

so is everyone in this forum activating kundalini?

Because with this book I am reading the author says you can activate kundalini minimum six months with proper grounding and 1 year if you have many earthly affairs.

He says before the ascension 2012 there should be enough people with activated kundalini to help others through the process once the mass kundalini acticvation is triggered.

oooh from kundalini accounts it jsut makes me more fearful.

here is one account I am reading. http://www.personaltransformation.com/PubTransform.html

So should I wait for the mass activation and just ground myself in preparation for that? Or activate now to help others when mass activations are triggered during the ascension event?

:?

[Korpo]

While there are many clues about this ascension 2012 event, this is a controversial issue. In any case, reading about something and taken it for great wisdom may not be the best way. A certain scepticism is in order, as this is not the only possible future, IMO. I do not say it is wrong, I just say I stay sceptic.

Anway - in spiritually it is never a good thing to rush things, no matter what time or situation you find yourself in. There's this about spiritual progress: The pace you go and the pace you can go are amongst the things that are to a certain extent "built in". Rushing is no good idea, because I believe that's what produces most of the negative side-effects of ANY practise. There's a zone of comfort and safety you should stay in and progress every day. This takes you farther than you may think now. Many people here report much softer developments, and feel good about the experience, as I found out in this forums.

Not everyone is working with Kundalini. It is a very specific energetic phenomenon, RB is very clear on that, and many people do different stuff. Premature Kundalini spikes can happen, especially in ungrounded and rushed practise, but this is not necessarily a property of all meditation and energy work, though opinions may differ there too.

Robert often says "Only fools rush in where angels fear to tread". A bit of caution, confidence, scepticism and consequent work will take you very far, believe me. Oh, and a relaxed attitude! ;)

Take good care,
Oliver

[star]

Kundalini seems pointless to think about until it slaps you in the face anyway. By then you should be ready to handle it.

Well, if your not maybe your just making excuses.