Lost in the Bible Belt

[deneb]

I had been living a metaphysical life for 16 years until a move from Southern California found me in a new relationship in the Bible Belt in a small town in the deep southern U.S. and attending an ultra-conservative Baptist Church. While I wouldn't consider my wife overly-conservative, she does agree with the basic teaching of the church - which is fine. She goes there because she feels at home. Until I started attending the church, I would have considered her its most liberal member - not Al Gore liberal, but liberal for a conservative. For me, I figued that going to the church would be a good chance for me to expand my spirituality, understand Christians better, and to seek the true message under the retoric.

Now, over 2 years later, a major part of my spirit has felt gouged out. I found that I just could not abide by many of the religious teachings. Refusuing to fill that space with what I was hearing, I recently turned my energies back into more classically metaphysical studies (especially Astrology and Tarot), but I can't seem to find the spiritual involvement that I once possessed.

I was wondering if anyone has any insight into this.

Thank You

[gorillabait]

Hi deneb,

I think you need to get back in touch with your core motivations. What aspect of spirituality attracts you the most? If it's mysticism/exploration of reality, I would recommend you practice NEW/Projection and meditation. If it's self-exploration/realization, I would recommend a steady course of meditation/introspection.

If going to church leaves you feeling drained and unhappy, maybe you should reconsider going, or where you attend. Though it's definitely hard to leave an activity you and your wife mutually attend, especially one so loaded with meaning (if you stop going, God is angry), it isn't good to continue an activity that your spirit is rebelling against.

Let me know what you think.

[deneb]

Hey Gorillabait,

Core motivations? I guess that I never really sat down and considered my spiritual motivations ... heck, or my motivations for pretty much anything. Well, that thought made signing up for the forum worth it right there.

I have accepted the fact that as long as I live in this area, the church I am going to now will be the church that I go to now. Chuch is much more important to to my wife than it is to me, so that is a concession that I am willing to make.

Another member PM'd me and suggested Unity Christian as a compromise. I found one about 45 mins from here that I might check out sometime.

I am not familar with NEW/Projection, or Astral Projection at all. What are the benefits in my situation?

[CFTraveler]

More info on AP: http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=65

Setting aside the idea of astral projection as a valid spiritual practice, think of it as a mine of opportunity for psychological self exploration. Imagine your projecting your consciousness (as opposed to unconscious processes) into an environment your subconscious has objectified for you-The opportunities for self-exploration are endless.

[deneb]

More info on AP: http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=65

Setting aside the idea of astral projection as a valid spiritual practice, think of it as a mine of opportunity for psychological self exploration.

I completely understand - feel the exact same way about Tarot.

[gorillabait]

Hi deneb,

There are a lot of benefits to practicing NEW. One is that in clearing up any energy blockages in your body, you will improve your health as well as possibly improve your emotional state. Think of it as exercise for your entire spiritual being.

As well as this, doing energy work is sort of like embarking upon a program of increased potentiation. As you begin raising energy, you will find you start to know yourself better, and are able to locate areas of your life where you are the most stuck. Often these areas seem difficult to change due to loaded conceptions (leaving a job = oh no, no money!), but are worth it for the reason of personal growth, and in the end life allows for itself (new job which works much better for you).

Astral projection isn't for everyone, but it is for the curious at heart. It's like the final frontier, exploring the nature of reality from your own point of view, rather than relying on other's knowledge. The thing to keep in mind with AP is that everything is subjective, because your mind filters the information and presents it to you in a way which makes sense to you. So if you see a circle of twenty monkeys dancing the rhumba around a signpost saying "Welcome to the Astral!", don't go around telling people "Hey man, when you see the twenty monkeys, you'll KNOW you're there!" because they might see fifty rhinos, or a flock of pigeons for all you know.

Meditation is very important too. In addition to energy work and raising being almost like liquid potentiation as I see it, meditation clears a lot of the psychic (as in, pertaining to your psyche) blocks you have. It helps to clear logical knots in your mind, helps you know yourself better, helps you see where you're stuck and what you really believe and who you really are. All these things combined can change a person's life for the better.

Alright, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I hope you've enjoyed reading this, donations are always welcome! :D

Hey Gorillabait,

Core motivations? I guess that I never really sat down and considered my spiritual motivations ... heck, or my motivations for pretty much anything. Well, that thought made signing up for the forum worth it right there.

I have accepted the fact that as long as I live in this area, the church I am going to now will be the church that I go to now. Chuch is much more important to to my wife than it is to me, so that is a concession that I am willing to make.

Another member PM'd me and suggested Unity Christian as a compromise. I found one about 45 mins from here that I might check out sometime.

I am not familar with NEW/Projection, or Astral Projection at all. What are the benefits in my situation?
What sort of healing are you seeking? Is it for yourself or for your wife?

[Krystal]

I grew up in the deep South going to a Southern Baptist church. I struggled with some unique ideas/restrictions that the mentality was placing on me there. If you would like to discuss any of these ideals, PM me.

It was very hard for me to deal with the guilt and issues that were fostered onto me and that I struggled with internally. It was a long hard struggle for me before I felt that I could explore other ideas and not be condemned for this.

[deneb]

What sort of healing are you seeking? Is it for yourself or for your wife?

I am guessing you are being humorous, because I am laughing. No, my wife is just fine with her chosen spiritual path.
I don't know if I am looking for a spiritual healing as much as some guidance.

What sort of healing are you seeking? Is it for yourself or for your wife?

I am guessing you are being humorous, because I am laughing. No, my wife is just fine with her chosen spiritual path.
I don't know if I am looking for a spiritual healing as much as some guidance.
No, there are many who do not want healing. So I asked.

As to guidance, I suggest that you do what you know to be right. If you do that, you will find healing, even though you are not looking for it.

[deneb]

No, there are many who do not want healing. So I asked.

As to guidance, I suggest that you do what you know to be right. If you do that, you will find healing, even though you are not looking for it.

Thank you for asking - I appreicate it.

That second paragraph stings because I know what is right. I guess it's like a person who wants to lose weight ... everyone wants their cake and to literally eat it too, but the true answer lies in work that we are not willing to put into changing.

I guess I just answered my own question.

No, there are many who do not want healing. So I asked.

As to guidance, I suggest that you do what you know to be right. If you do that, you will find healing, even though you are not looking for it.

Thank you for asking - I appreicate it.

That second paragraph stings because I know what is right. I guess it's like a person who wants to lose weight ... everyone wants their cake and to literally eat it too, but the true answer lies in work that we are not willing to put into changing.

I guess I just answered my own question.
May God give you wisdom, self-control, courage and sound judgment.

Sometimes even in the south of the U.S. there are alternative places where you can go for information or guidance. You could look for a coven or a reiki group. There are christians who practice energy work and healing. I'm not familiar with the area. Of course you can just read a lot of stuff online and get advice from the numerous people on here with tons of experience! Try some other sites too, astralsociety or psipog.

[xxhealinghandxx]

Maybe being at church, seeing the special thing your wife has, has made you realized just how deep the pot of your soul actually goes? Some people fill this with friendship, pleasure and addictions of the sort, hobbies, ect, but these aren't a solution to the problem. Maybe you should talk to your wife and turn church into more than just a chore you do to make the relationship work, support is good, lying isn't.

[deneb]

Maybe being at church, seeing the special thing your wife has, has made you realized just how deep the pot of your soul actually goes? Some people fill this with friendship, pleasure and addictions of the sort, hobbies, ect, but these aren't a solution to the problem. Maybe you should talk to your wife and turn church into more than just a chore you do to make the relationship work, support is good, lying isn't.

I think our relationship would work, even if I didn't go to church. She knows how I feel about church, so there's no lying there - at least that I am aware.
You do make a good point about the depth of some people's spirituality - I can think of maybe 2 or 3 people in the church who actually live it. In fact, even when I was active in the New Age community, I found it the same - many people talked the talk, but it seemed like so few were actually living past the superfical parts that served them ... interesting.


Sometimes even in the south of the U.S. there are alternative places where you can go for information or guidance. You could look for a coven or a reiki group. There are christians who practice energy work and healing. I'm not familiar with the area. Of course you can just read a lot of stuff online and get advice from the numerous people on here with tons of experience! Try some other sites too, astralsociety or psipog.

Tallahassee is a pretty happening place for New Age / Metaphysics - it's no Sedona or Nevada City, but it does have enough of a community to publish several monthly papers . I try and get to the city when I can - it's over an hour from where I live. I guess I could start be seeing what is available on Saturdays and head out that way ... thanks!

Maybe being at church, seeing the special thing your wife has, has made you realized just how deep the pot of your soul actually goes? Some people fill this with friendship, pleasure and addictions of the sort, hobbies, ect, but these aren't a solution to the problem. Maybe you should talk to your wife and turn church into more than just a chore you do to make the relationship work, support is good, lying isn't.

I think our relationship would work, even if I didn't go to church. She knows how I feel about church, so there's no lying there - at least that I am aware.
You do make a good point about the depth of some people's spirituality - I can think of maybe 2 or 3 people in the church who actually live it. In fact, even when I was active in the New Age community, I found it the same - many people talked the talk, but it seemed like so few were actually living past the superfical parts that served them ... interesting.


Sometimes even in the south of the U.S. there are alternative places where you can go for information or guidance. You could look for a coven or a reiki group. There are christians who practice energy work and healing. I'm not familiar with the area. Of course you can just read a lot of stuff online and get advice from the numerous people on here with tons of experience! Try some other sites too, astralsociety or psipog.

Tallahassee is a pretty happening place for New Age / Metaphysics - it's no Sedona or Nevada City, but it does have enough of a community to publish several monthly papers . I try and get to the city when I can - it's over an hour from where I live. I guess I could start be seeing what is available on Saturdays and head out that way ... thanks!
Human nature is pretty much the same wherever it is found. There are many who proclaim New Age cures to all of man's woes -- as long as people will buy their newest book or CD.

[xxhealinghandxx]

I'm a non denominational christian, but my family and I go to a baptist church, (not an ultra-conservative church though :P ). I think you should try to like the church your wife seems into right now the best you can, but keep in mind that just because you go to a ultra-conservative baptist church, doesn't mean you have to be an ultra-conservative baptist.

I think some things in the Bible aren't clear enough to just decide at. And each individual should take a prayer and petition approach to things their not sure of, some things are absolute though, but then again some are not. That is why I am not denominational.

Hope you get the answers your searching for I wish the best of luck to you.

Goodluck ;D

deneb,
One of the most important things to know about any kind of spirituality is that no matter what a person practices or is drawn to (in your case, metaphysics or Christianity), it's not important what it appears other people are doing. You never really know what is in another person's heart. They can appear very worldly, maybe even hypocritical, and, yet be very spiritually advanced. The most important thing we can do is work on ourselves and not worry about what spiritual state someone else is in. None of us is perfect, and if we judge another based on what "seems" to be happening with them, we might miss something really important spiritually. One of the most spiritually advanced people I know is also an alcoholic. That person has so much knowledge, wisdom, and is what I consider a spiritual master, but that person is still working on trying to stay away from the bottle. If I had been judgemental about the drinking, I would have missed out on so many things I've learned. We are all working on improving ourselves, and letting go of judgement of ourselves and others can catapult our understanding, love, and growth so fast it will make your head spin. You can stay in your church if it appeals to you, have very different spiritual beliefs than the others, and still learn from them, your church, your wife, and your minister without being a hypocrite. We all teach and learn from each other. And, none of us is perfect. When we really accept that, the love we find teaches us far beyond what any dogma can.

[deneb]

One of the most spiritually advanced people I know is also an alcoholic. That person has so much knowledge, wisdom, and is what I consider a spiritual master, but that person is still working on trying to stay away from the bottle. If I had been judgemental about the drinking, I would have missed out on so many things I've learned.

Actually, I guess I have been on both ends of the spiritual prejudice. I like this guidance - everyone has their issues and it is my own prejudice that is blocking my ability to see all of the spiritual teachings that every living being has to offer. Even Carlos Castaneda's teacher, Don Juan, shared a teaching on the spiritual gifts he received from the man who was holding him prisoner and eventually shot him - just before he met the Nagual Julian (hmm ... I think I'll skip any hunting trips with church members :lol: )

I see how I, in fact people in general, seek out the weaknesses of the ones that we do not agree. Yet, I am guilty of one of my greatest criticisms about Christanity - the fact that they are close minded to other spiritual paths. I seem to have alot of patience for diverse spiritual paths which doesn't seem to apply to Christianty - in fact, I guess I am echoing the collective consciousness of our own nation. I was horrified that they have Chirstian prayer before football games in my little southern town, but I probably wouldn't have given it a second thought if it was some other spiritual devotion, prayer, or incantation.

Still, it's amazing (while being aware of this) that I don't want to let go of it. I still find myself seething with resentment over the situation that I created for myself. Like a child, I refuse to focus on what is good about it. I finally took down my blog because it had devolved into a scathing criticism of Christianty. I can't quite pinpoint the source of my resentment.

[CFTraveler]

Not speaking for you, because it would be (at least) silly and arrogant, I would like to speak to what you said. Having studied all kinds of religions, some more tolerant than others, I possibly think that your intolerance could stem from a couple of reasons: The connection that christianity in premodern (and apparently postmodern) times has had with imperialism, and the impact it has had in our culture. Some of us that have been brought up in christianity and want to keep the central idea that Jesus taught (love thy enemy), bristle as this message has been manipulated to conquer and subject other cultures and religions. This hurts, not only the people being conquered/destroyed, but especially those that believe in the principles that Jesus taught, in a very deep and personal way, because those are the people that 'get it.'
As much as I enjoy and agree with some Buddhist principles, I have no emotional connection to Gautama or any of his predecessors, so even though the example isn't even valid (I don't know any buddhist imperialists, but that doesn't mean they never existed) even if they did, they wouldn't offend me because I see them with an intellectual fascination; I have no emotional investment with buddhism, but I do with christianity (as any of you know that have read my religious rants in other forums with religious themes). So when I see certain televangelists spouting hate and intolerance in the name of Christ, it irks me like no other religious fundamentalist hatemonger can.
But that's just me.
Do you think this could be the case with you?

[deneb]

I am not sure if the imperalism bothers me as much as the Christian community speaking out about the imperalism of Islam while turning a blind eye to their own past. I am not saying that either one of them is correct - but they are the exact same thing except with modern media and weapons. I think it's the hippocracy - "When you do it it's wrong, but when we do it, it's right." It's justification via religious doctrine.

I am reading the same Bible that they are but I see Jesus as a non-political liberal - not a political conservative. They seem to think that if Jesus were walking the earth today, he would be voting Republican, hanging out in their cleansed churches, protesting gay marriages, and lobbying for moral laws instead of ministering in the places that they would sooner to condemn than visit (read: New Orleans and Nineveh).

I can't find the Jesus that they are teaching about in Church. In the pews and in the pulpit, I see the Pharisee from Luke 18:10-14:
"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men -- extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.' "And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise [his] eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
To which Jesus said:
"I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

I really threw myself into the spirituality of Chirstianty - and it just seems what came back at Church was nothing like I know in my heart to be true. Have you ever felt a certain way and been told that what you are feeling is not true? After awhile, it kind of makes you crazy. That's where I am at ... ready to dump it all because I can't take the madness.

[CFTraveler]

It sounds to me like you have a few things you could teach that church you're going to.

Not speaking for you, because it would be (at least) silly and arrogant, I would like to speak to what you said. Having studied all kinds of religions, some more tolerant than others, I possibly think that your intolerance could stem from a couple of reasons: The connection that christianity in premodern (and apparently postmodern) times has had with imperialism, and the impact it has had in our culture. Some of us that have been brought up in christianity and want to keep the central idea that Jesus taught (love thy enemy), bristle as this message has been manipulated to conquer and subject other cultures and religions. This hurts, not only the people being conquered/destroyed, but especially those that believe in the principles that Jesus taught, in a very deep and personal way, because those are the people that 'get it.'
As much as I enjoy and agree with some Buddhist principles, I have no emotional connection to Gautama or any of his predecessors, so even though the example isn't even valid (I don't know any buddhist imperialists, but that doesn't mean they never existed) even if they did, they wouldn't offend me because I see them with an intellectual fascination; I have no emotional investment with buddhism, but I do with christianity (as any of you know that have read my religious rants in other forums with religious themes). So when I see certain televangelists spouting hate and intolerance in the name of Christ, it irks me like no other religious fundamentalist hatemonger can.
But that's just me.
Do you think this could be the case with you?
Certainly the Chinese, today, are fairly imperialistic. And most of them are, in fact, Buddhist. I would doubt that Communism could have come to power were it not for links between it and Buddhism.

The same might be said of Communism and the Russian Orthodox Church, of course. I understand that many of their bishops were closely linked to the government.

These things happen...

I am not sure if the imperalism bothers me as much as the Christian community speaking out about the imperalism of Islam while turning a blind eye to their own past. I am not saying that either one of them is correct - but they are the exact same thing except with modern media and weapons. I think it's the hippocracy - "When you do it it's wrong, but when we do it, it's right." It's justification via religious doctrine.

I am reading the same Bible that they are but I see Jesus as a non-political liberal - not a political conservative. They seem to think that if Jesus were walking the earth today, he would be voting Republican, hanging out in their cleansed churches, protesting gay marriages, and lobbying for moral laws instead of ministering in the places that they would sooner to condemn than visit (read: New Orleans and Nineveh).

I can't find the Jesus that they are teaching about in Church. In the pews and in the pulpit, I see the Pharisee from Luke 18:10-14:
"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men -- extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.' "And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise [his] eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
To which Jesus said:
"I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

I really threw myself into the spirituality of Chirstianty - and it just seems what came back at Church was nothing like I know in my heart to be true. Have you ever felt a certain way and been told that what you are feeling is not true? After awhile, it kind of makes you crazy. That's where I am at ... ready to dump it all because I can't take the madness.
So Jesus would support abortion and free sex? I doubt it.

Certainly Jesus transcended political boundaries. I would not think of him as either liberal or conservative. Why would I? Recently I heard of a modernist 'bible' which has been published recently. It omits Christ's sayings about charity to the poor, etc. The publisher says that no one takes such things seriously. Do the majority of so-called conservative Christians accept that view? I think not, just the opposite.

[CFTraveler]

Certainly the Chinese, today, are fairly imperialistic. And most of them are, in fact, Buddhist. I would doubt that Communism could have come to power were it not for links between it and Buddhism. I thought communism was against religion and prohibited it when they took over Tibet- but that was not my point- My point is that if buddhism is a religion that encourages imperialism, it wouldn't bother me as much because I have no emotional ties to buddhism and it's teachings.

Certainly the Chinese, today, are fairly imperialistic. And most of them are, in fact, Buddhist. I would doubt that Communism could have come to power were it not for links between it and Buddhism. I thought communism was against religion and prohibited it when they took over Tibet- but that was not my point- My point is that if buddhism is a religion that encourages imperialism, it wouldn't bother me as much because I have no emotional ties to buddhism and it's teachings.
And my point is that people generally do what they have to do to manage their lives. Soviet Russia never prohibited the Russian Orthodox Church. The Catholic Church was persecuted openly, but not the Orthodox Church. They infiltrated it and marginalized its members. I have heard it said that all the Russian Orthodox bishops were really KGB agents. With the fall of Communism there was no purge of the ranks. So I guess all those Communist bishops continued to function as bishops. I would suspect that some of them today would be happy to welcome a return to the old regime.

Red China, likewise, did not eliminate religion. They merely try to control its expression. Thus they persecute the Catholic Church, but allow Catholics to belong to their so-called Patriotic Catholic Church...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Pa ... lic_Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Patriotic_Catholic_Church)

It's not really Catholic, not recognized as such by the bishop of Rome. But it allows some catholic rituals to be performed and give some people a feeling of being catholic, even though they are not. It is strictly controlled by Beijing's Religious Affairs Bureau. And one must consider its priests as agents of the state. Real Catholic priests in China may exist secretly. Otherwise, they will end up in jail.

I would imagine that the same is true of Buddhism. I doubt that any major Buddhist leader is free of the long arm of the Religious Affairs Bureau. Most likely they, too, are agents of the imperial Red Chinese state. It is amazing how flexible religious belief can be when it meets real life. I suspect that they can quote Buddhist scriptures like parrots and make Mao's Little Red Book sound like something the Buddha, himself, himself may have written.

So when you imagine Christianity being imperialistic you should consider carefully whether you are looking at real Christianity or at a tool for powers behind the throne.

Christ had no particular message for Caesar. He and Caesar did not hobnob in the same circle of friends. There was probably a reason for that.

Look at the Catholic Church, today. She is 98% liberal. Yet people complain that she is too conservative in her ways. How little they know...

[deneb]

So Jesus would support abortion and free sex? I doubt it.


Wow! Where did I say that in my post?

So, Jesus would be into big oil and tobacco companies? I doubt it.

Interesting ... our own interpretations of liberal and conservative. To me liberal is more social minded and conservative is more business minded.

I consider helping the poor, social & education programs, and decent health care for everyone to be liberal ideas. I also don't consider these things to be political issues in the same vein as gay marriages and abortion.

I'm still stuck on your 'free sex' comment. Where does that even come in? Are you thinking gay marriage is the same as free sex? Hetrosexuals and homosexuals can be promiscuous ... I am guessing you are thinking hippies are liberal and hippies are into free sex, so therefore liberals must be into free sex? Well, I'm liberal, male, and not into free sex for myself. I must be that one liberal who has decided to settle down with one partner and raise a family.

[xxhealinghandxx]

I think what Deneb is feeling is what I'm feeling a bit too, so I can relate.

The dismisal of prayers at a football game is understandable, some of them might not even be christians. It is hard sometimes because everyone has turned christianity into rules. Yes the bible is rules, but their are guidelines too, and I believe they should be taken to the heart. It is what God wants us to do, and we should follow it, not just because we're gonna "get burned in hell" or something if we don't, but because we should care if we do the right thing or not. People today just make prayer at football games a "tradition" and they might not even believe in God, much less act like a christian. But prayer is personal and should be displayed as such, there are so many fakes out there that it is hard sometimes for people to accept christianity, and would much rather accept buddhism, because buddhism is making a serious life style choice, as christians do, and most of the buddhists for some reason stick to their rules. That is probably why an incantation or spell and what not, might seem a better alternative to you, it is because at least that is more real than some people who go to bed and read the "And Now I Lye Me Down To Sleep" prayer off a print they got off the internet.

Maybe there are some fakes/poor christians in your church Deneb, if you truly wish a relationship with God you should pursue one at home and in church. Church is fellowship with other christians, which is ok, but if people don't agree with what you believe in, it is ok to "agree to disagree". I think, instead of making a heated argument. But then again it could be the other way around, don't be afraid to get into a discussion, and be patient with the people you share opinions with, raised voices shouldn't be present among fellow christians; you should be subjective (is that the word?) and receptive.

Goodluck.

In my humble opinion, most economic liberal politicians are also social liberals. Most economic conservative politicians are also social conservatives. Yet there are exceptions. Barry Goldwater, for example, was an economic conservative but a social liberal.