Are my lucid dreams different from yours?

[Silentrage]

Hello everybody. First time poster, long time lurker. :) I have been reading about everyone's experiences here in regards to lucid dreams and alot of you seem to have a slightly different definition of what qualifies as a lucid dream than I do. Most of you seem to not be able to control your lucid dreams. You become aware that you are dreaming and then you just become an eyewitness to the events that are taking place. If that is what is considered a lucid dream then I have been doing that all my life. However, there is another type of dream state that I encounter and after being able to do it for a number of years and learning about lucid dreams online I discovered it to be the true definition of a lucid dream as it was taught on one particular website. I am in no way trying to downplay the experiences of anyone here. I am grateful for this forum as I feel I can learn something from everyone here. To avoid confusion I will refer to these as controlled lucid dreams.

When I was very young I seemed to have alot of abilities while in the dream state. Some I still have while some have left me but hopefully with practice I will get them back. While having a pleasant dream something would awaken me (alarm clock, sunlight, etc) and I would fight to try and return to that dream so that I could watch it play out. The problem is that when I returned everything would look the same but nothing would be moving. Not even the people. It's like someone pressed the pause button. I realized that nothing would move unless I willed it. I found this to be frustrating because nothing would operate on its own accord. I could make things move just by my thoughts but it nevered seemed natural. The wind would not even blow unless I willed it. The more objects, people, animals etc there were the harder it would become because it's hard to keep track of so many things at once. Things would stop or start as I became aware or unaware of them. Eventually I started reading about lucid dreaming and learned a technique to bring about these dreams at will and most importantly to me, how to make practical use out of them.

This is where my experiences once again differ from the majority posted here. Some posters seem unable to change their surroundings or find objects they are looking for while lucid. While controllably lucid I don't have this problem because I can change the environment as I see fit. Around the time I 'formally' learned about lucid dreaming I was fairly early into my martial arts training. So when I entered a controlled lucid dream I would say, "Oh cool, I can train in my sleep!" and change whatever the environment was at the time into an empty room similar to a dojo and perform techniques. Controlling an empty room or one with only a few objects is easier than greasing the wheels of an entire house, park, etc. After a while I sort of lost interest in lucid dreams and became more involved in other phenomenon but I am slowly getting back into it.

I was just wondering if this isn't a lucid dream then what is it? It seems to be a world controlled by my mind alone. I also want to know if anyone else have experienced this.

[wstein]

See 'Dreaming Forum' 'Lucid Dreams or Regular Dreams? '

Lucid dreaming explicitly mean becoming aware that one is currently dreaming (not more). Many other skills and practices can be added once this basic awareness is achived. The most common is alteration of the dream itself.

[Silentrage]

Thanks. I am checking that out now.

[CFTraveler]

I concur with wstein. Lucidity is a state of awareness, not control. However, the ability to achieve and maintain control may be a function of degree of lucidity- of that I am not sure. Maybe there should be a different term for control in lucid dreams? Something to think about.

Dreamviews, the lucid dreaming website has a somewhat arbitrary (or rather, it suits their purpose) lucid dreaming category classification. Just for ha-has, you might want to look at it:
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/index.p ... opic=23562 (http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23562)

Maybe we can coin our own categories, but I would dispense with the titles, though.

[CFTraveler]

I just wanted to address something that Silentrage brought up: How sticky the differences between ld'ing and obe can be, causing sometimes conflict about what is what. As someone who used to ld a lot (and still do in spurts) and obes a bit too- is that I have in the past used the degree of interaction between me and my environment to discern whether I've gone astral or are ld'ing. (some may say they are one and the same, for a good reason- that a lucid dream may be a very short astral trip, from your body to the 'dreaming mind', within or without your body. But this is not what I mean when I differentiate.
The way I categorize my own experiences:
If I have exit sensations+inability to interact with my environment, it's an OBE.
If I consciously and deliberately step into an environment that has appeared in front of me, slowly and it includes the feeling of movement into it (hard to explain, you have to experience it) I'm phasing into the astral.
If I go to sleep, even if I'm trying to induce ob or phase shift, and find myself into a dreamscape, lucid or not, controlled or not, it's a dream.

Now I realize that this is an arbitrary classification that I have devised for my own subjective experiences, but for now it serves me well.
As usual, anything subjective is subject to change without further notice. :wink:

[cainam_nazier]

Me personally I have always associated control with lucid and anything below that as awareness. But that could just be me. Usually though when talking to people about thier dreams I will specifically ask if they had any control over the enviroment to help detirmin thier level of awareness.

CFT,

I have experienced both and all I can say is that there is a definate differance for me. I have always been aware durring my dreams, since I was a child. But when I do OBE the experience is so much different. I dunno things feel different when dreaming. I guess the most basic way to explain it would be knowing the source of what is going on. Dreams are an internal function. Everything is generated by your mind. It seems with OBEs that they are externally generated. And you also run into seperate beings than yourself, unlike dream characters who are not really seperate because they are generated by your mind and often represent parts of your own being.
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..
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I guess that wasn't really the easy explination.

[violetsky]

Dear Silentrage,

I tell many people we need a dictionary of terms but no dictionary of spiritual terms has yet been invented. This of course can result in confusion.

I would say that what you describe is lucid dreaming as Carl Jung would interpret it. But the first step in lucid dreaming is of course to become aware in your dream. The next is to become an active conscious participant in your dream and finally to create your own dreams or become aware when your dreams are being influenced.

During lucid dream another cool thing you can do is what I call "peel aways." If a dream is not making sense to you, then you can consciously request better clarity. Then the confusing or unclear senerio peels away and you are in a completely different setting. Lucid dreaming is a lot of fun and very informative of you deeper states of being and unconscious mind.

Best Wishes,
violetsky

[Silentrage]

violetsky,

Ah yes, Jung. Quite a guy. I must remember to order more of his books. Your explantions of lucid dreaming sound like steps that should lead to one ultimate goal. As you said, awareness is step one. A naming convention would be nice for all of them. Something worth looking into if it doesn't already exist out there somewhere.

[Dsmoke]

I have lucid dreams where I control the environment if I want to, though some things are harder to do than others. For instance, I often "spin" or fly to different environments that I want to visit, ask to see dream characters so that I can ask them questions, manifest items or people, etc.

I think you're definitely having lucid dreams. It's just that some people either aren't able to control their dream environment yet, or prefer not to exercise too much control over their dreams because they want to see how the dream plays out on its own.

[wstein]

I just wanted to address something that Silentrage brought up: How sticky the differences between ld'ing and obe can be, causing sometimes conflict about what is what.
Totally true. Differences between LD and the RTZ are even harder to sort out as each changes in response to our thoughts.

I have learned two ways to tell.

One can narrow the possibilities by noticing whether or not the environment changes in response to our own thoughts (as per controlling a lucid dream). This is the same for deciding if you are in the RTZ or fully in the Astral. This does not always give an exact answer but can eliminate possibilities. For instance, if you can change a house into a car, then you are most likely not having an OBE in the Astral planes; but would not distinguish between the RTZ or a dream.

Developing the watcher from advanced lucid dreaming techniques in the simultaneous mode, can help a lot with this. This means that the watcher is simultaneous to the dream and does not affect your participation in the dream. In this advanced configuration, the watcher can be invoked anywhere at any time (no need for the dream part). For reasons I don't know, the watcher is much better at distinguishing types of experience. Also, the watcher can attempt to alter the environment in order to test for dreaming states (as per above). Warning that without practice, invoking the watcher can interrupt or stop a lucid dream or an OBE (annoying but generally not harmful). Invoking the watcher when awake is safe.

[Silentrage]

Warning that without practice, invoking the watcher can interrupt or stop a lucid dream or an OBE (annoying but generally not harmful). Invoking the watcher when awake is safe.

Invoking the watcher as you put is what I believe to be part of the reason for my failed exit attempts while trying AP. I am slowly gaining control over it. This should act as sort of a cross-training for LD.

[wstein]

Warning that without practice, invoking the watcher can interrupt or stop a lucid dream or an OBE (annoying but generally not harmful). Invoking the watcher when awake is safe.

Invoking the watcher as you put is what I believe to be part of the reason for my failed exit attempts while trying AP. I am slowly gaining control over it. This should act as sort of a cross-training for LD.

It would be much easier and less disruptive to invoke the watcher AFTER exit (unless you need to view the exit of course).

[Silentrage]

Warning that without practice, invoking the watcher can interrupt or stop a lucid dream or an OBE (annoying but generally not harmful). Invoking the watcher when awake is safe.

Invoking the watcher as you put is what I believe to be part of the reason for my failed exit attempts while trying AP. I am slowly gaining control over it. This should act as sort of a cross-training for LD.

It would be much easier and less disruptive to invoke the watcher AFTER exit (unless you need to view the exit of course).

Heh, invoking it before/during was not something I was shooting for. It was done instinctively and a bit out of my control. I practiced some more last night and I was able to keep my focus tied to the 1st person view moreso this time.